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You knew it was coming.

Vader is on his personal ship, the Executor, in orbit above Earth. Luke and Danny are chilling in Harlem.

They both know something of each other. Luke and Danny have both watched all the Star Wars films, but not really read the books/comics - they're not dweebs.

Vader hasn't seen the Netflix show, as Palpatine won't share his Netflix login ('only two, there must be....') but he has a general idea of what these two can do.

The fight stips are this:

What distance must the combatants be from each other, for it to be even for both sides?

Does Vader have to get into his TiE fighter down to Earth's surface (assuming no one else in the Marvel U interferes)?

Does he need to land in North America?

New York?

A city block away?

50m away?

Composite Vader, has his lightsaber, and his suit. Can crash his fighter into his enemies if he wants. No one time showings (sorry Luke and your T-clap!). Even the turbo laser batteries on the Executor are fair game if he can target the heroes. Danny and Luke are on the sofa waiting for the arrival of their enemy ( i.e. they know they're in a fight).

No one time showings phucks Vader harder than it phucks Cage

You think so? Composite Vader has access to all his book feats, movies, comics, etc. I wanted to avoid Vader being able to disintegrate people with a gesture type attacks, but keeping it fair.

Team. Luke Cage is durable enough to survive anything Vader does and IF has been using his Chi to perform Force-like shenanigans for years now.

Originally posted by zopzop
Team. Luke Cage is durable enough to survive anything Vader does and IF has been using his Chi to perform Force-like shenanigans for years now.

At what distance is it competitive?

Is it a good match if Vader stayed on the Executor and the Heroes were on Luke's couch?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is it a good match if Vader stayed on the Executor and the Heroes were on Luke's couch?
Sure, why not? Luke may be useless at that distance but IF isn't. I actually see him pulling some spiritual attack via his Chi or using it to transport them to Vader or Vader to them. Here's an incomplete list of things he's done with his Chi.

Originally posted by zopzop
Team. Luke Cage is durable enough to survive anything Vader does and IF has been using his Chi to perform Force-like shenanigans for years now. only Luke's skin is super durable. His innards are still as durable as a normal humans though. Vader crushes his heart and then snaps Danny's neck.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sure, why not? Luke may be useless at that distance but IF isn't. I actually see him pulling some spiritual attack via his Chi or using it to transport them to Vader or Vader to them. Here's an incomplete list of things he's done with his Chi.

None of those feats lead me to believe he can target Vader, in orbit somewhere, with an attack, lol.

Or do you have a specific feat in mind (which isn't a one time thing)?

Originally posted by deathslash
only Luke's skin is super durable. His innards are still as durable as a normal humans though. Vader crushes his heart and then snaps Danny's neck.
Nah, Luke's safe. A villain shrunk and got inside his body then attempted to kill Luke by suddenly growing to gigantic size. It failed because even Luke's innards are super dense and the villain wound up almost dying.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nah, Luke's safe. A villain shrunk and got inside his body then attempted to kill Luke by suddenly growing to gigantic size. It failed because even Luke's innards are super dense and the villain wound up almost dying.

That villain was human level, though. OGrady, right? As Ant Man. One time showing, again.

Vader has crushed 'unbreakable' metal. Crushed ATAT armour. Crushed etc etc etc. He has multiple showings of crushing metal and other super durable objects.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That villain was human level, though. OGrady, right? As Ant Man. One time showing, again.

Vader has crushed 'unbreakable' metal. Crushed ATAT armour. Crushed etc etc etc. He has multiple showings of crushing metal and other super durable objects.
Luke's body is A LOT tougher than metal.

Got showings of his internals being that durable?

And I don't think you're thinking things completely through. Remember Vader can also TK Cage (as an example).

My question is still the same. At what distance is it a competitive match? If you think Danny can affect Vader in orbit, please back it up with scans of him targeting and spiritually attacking someone that far away.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You knew it was coming.

Vader is on his personal ship, the Executor, in orbit above Earth. Luke and Danny are chilling in Harlem.

They both know something of each other. Luke and Danny have both watched all the Star Wars films, but not really read the books/comics - they're not dweebs.

Vader hasn't seen the Netflix show, as Palpatine won't share his Netflix login ('only two, there must be....') but he has a general idea of what these two can do.

The fight stips are this:

What distance must the combatants be from each other, for it to be even for both sides?

Does Vader have to get into his TiE fighter down to Earth's surface (assuming no one else in the Marvel U interferes)?

Does he need to land in North America?

New York?

A city block away?

50m away?

Composite Vader, has his lightsaber, and his suit. Can crash his fighter into his enemies if he wants. No one time showings (sorry Luke and your T-clap!). Even the turbo laser batteries on the Executor are fair game if he can target the heroes. Danny and Luke are on the sofa waiting for the arrival of their enemy ( i.e. they know they're in a fight).

What you're really asking, is whether Vader can throttle Cage and Danny.


Is Cages skin harder then whatever plate the mad scientist used? If we can't tell what the plate is made of, do we have definable feats for the upper limits of damage Vaders grip can do?

And Danny: Easy to underestimate. He has feats that put even Cage to shame, such as:

1. Surviving an explosion from a walking nuclear man, that leveled the top of an apartment building.

2. Being in the middle of an explosion said to make the Hiroshima bomb look like
a firecracker. This time without taking a scratch.


And if we assume Vader can throttle him, would it STOP him? Considering:

1. He's literally walked off crippling injuries. A completely broken back didn't slow him down a step, and he's recovered from gunshot wounds through the heart.

2. He may not need to breath. He was whisked to a void (presumably airless) with the villains inhabiting it asking how he was even alive, as the void should instantly kill anything in it.

The Iron Fist sustains him, even in an environment no human can survive in.

It's not just throttling - think bigger.

Organ crushing, for example. Gunshot wounds through the heart is cool. What if it's completely mashed up? His brain?

I could see Darth Vader using the full power of the Force and forcibly swapping their races.

They'd die of shock, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I could see Darth Vader using the full power of the Force and forcibly swapping their races.

They'd die of shock, wouldn't they?

A black swapped Danny would be the greatest thing ever.

He'd trigger everyone, without even realizing he was doing it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I could see Darth Vader using the full power of the Force and forcibly swapping their races.

They'd die of shock, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by cdtm
What you're really asking, is whether Vader can throttle Cage and Danny.


Is Cages skin harder then whatever plate the mad scientist used? If we can't tell what the plate is made of, do we have definable feats for the upper limits of damage Vaders grip can do?
He has feats of throwing fighters, crushing them in midair and throwing them, AT-ATs, durasteel, 'unbreakable' metal....

https://i.postimg.cc/5HjrbCSX/Capture789-zps2bc493d4.png


Not an internal attack, but OK. Not sure why 'levelling the top of an apartment building' is enough to put Cage to shame, but OK.



Yeah, that would be nothing to the Executor. Just sayin' :P



Not sure why Vader can't. Here, he's lifting a giant mechanical digger and dropping it:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5835042-3007338754-58345.jpg

This is him perched on one of the wheels:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5835041-4113040860-58338.jpg

And imagine that crushing power....focussed on a squishy heart:
https://i.postimg.cc/p9tB151N/5835047-1846584697-39149.jpg

I don't have time to go into detail, but two points on Star Destroyer durability:

1. Asteroid field. A field threatening serious damage on a Star Destroyer doesn't sound like terribly impressive durability, for a sci-fi warship.

2. Vader's capital ship WAS felled by a suicide charge. I assume the area it hit used durasteel windows, so we're not talking adamantium here.

....I'm not talking about durability. Am talking about the turbolaser batteries hitting the planet.

Durasteel isn't see through. So no, the windows weren't durasteel, lol.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't have time to go into detail, but two points on Star Destroyer durability:

1. Asteroid field. A field threatening serious damage on a Star Destroyer doesn't sound like terribly impressive durability, for a sci-fi warship.

2. Vader's capital ship WAS felled by a suicide charge. I assume the area it hit used durasteel windows, so we're not talking adamantium here. durasteel windows? Do you actually know anything about star wars?

Originally posted by deathslash
durasteel windows? Do you actually know anything about star wars?

Transparasteel. Whatever. It ain't glass, is the point, it's armor.

I'm sure the ships are armored up with whatever's in those ATAT's too, if not better.

But not aluminized densecris:



Still, it's all by the by. Vader is on his ship in orbit. It may take days,or weeks, months....he can attack at his leisure. Can IF and Luke? If not, he has a significant advantage, and can attack at any point
...3am on a Sunday, during toilet breaks, when the kids are crying, whatever.

Still not sure how this all matters, when I haven't seen a single scan or proof of their internals being durable. Their squidgy hearts. Brains. Spinal cords.

Originally posted by cdtm
Transparasteel. Whatever. It ain't glass, is the point, it's armor.

I'm sure the ships are armored up with whatever's in those ATAT's too, if not better. Goku beats Unicron

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Goku beats Unicron

Only the lame anime version.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But not aluminized densecris:



Still, it's all by the by. Vader is on his ship in orbit. It may take days,or weeks, months....he can attack at his leisure. Can IF and Luke? If not, he has a significant advantage, and can attack at any point
...3am on a Sunday, during toilet breaks, when the kids are crying, whatever.

Still not sure how this all matters, when I haven't seen a single scan or proof of their internals being durable. Their squidgy hearts. Brains. Spinal cords.

What do you call surviving a nuke?

I mean, is a microwave only affecting the surface skin of a potatoe?

That affects you inside and out. Ground zero, the super heated gas and radiation would bake him like a nuked potatoe.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Goku beats Unicron

Originally posted by cdtm
What do you call surviving a nuke?

I mean, is a microwave only affecting the surface skin of a potatoe?

That affects you inside and out. Ground zero, the super heated gas and radiation would bake him like a nuked potatoe.

So... Diamondback outputs more energy than a nuke when he snaps his back?

Hiroim?

Shang?

And I'm not even going into low showings.

And its not really answering the thread. If you keep Vader in orbit, then he just heals, then Vader snaps again. Heals. Snap. Heal. Snap.

Problem is, Vader is doing it effortlessly. Danny isn't. And has no way to retaliate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So... Diamondback outputs more energy than a nuke when he snaps his back?

Hiroim?

Shang?

And I'm not even going into low showings.

And its not really answering the thread. If you keep Vader in orbit, then he just heals, then Vader snaps again. Heals. Snap. Heal. Snap.

Problem is, Vader is doing it effortlessly. Danny isn't. And has no way to retaliate.

Your point on Danny's durability works both ways, though.

That super glass is called "indestructible".

So is a battarang. Countdown had Dick telling Bat Woman this.

Does that make them indestructible, in the same way Cap's shield is?

I'll address more when I get the chance, but am interested in if part of the argument for Vader's maximum grip damage ability is based off a word, or if that glass has other things going for it.

Originally posted by cdtm
Your point on Danny's durability works both ways, though.

That super glass is called "indestructible".

So is a battarang. Countdown had Dick telling Bat Woman this.

Does that make them indestructible, in the same way Cap's shield is?

I'll address more when I get the chance, but am interested in if part of the argument for Vader's maximum grip damage ability is based off a word, or if that glass has other things going for it.

It's in part. Nothing is unbreakable, right? Hell, the book even has the word in quotes.

My point is, Vader has more than one showing of crushing/breaking hard items with the Force. Sometimes on a large scale, as seen with the TiE fighter, and at speed.

But you're throwing a red herring out. Vader is safe and sound on his ship in orbit. IF and Cage are in Harlem. Vader has showings of long range attacks, sometimes without line of sight. The heroes do not.

You're clinging to a single showing, with an unspecified material, a single attack on a rancor (i.e. no follow ups, no concentrated effort), as your entire basis.

NO SINGLE SHOWINGS, lol. A rule I believe you instigated.

Danny has healing feats, sure. But if his entire shtick is to serve as a punching bag whilst Cage cries in impotent rage at the sky, it's kinda shitty for the whole 'IF should be considered herald level', lol.

Vader wins.