Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Can beast beat Frank in hand to hand ?

If not, Frank gets a knife.

Originally posted by Damborgson
If not, Frank gets a knife.

Wait... if Beast can't beat him, you're giving Frank a knife so he can skin him? That's cruel.

Frank has a monstrous damage soak, is highly skilled and his strength is greatly underestimated on KMC:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/77829/1411639-559695_punisherusagent2at3_super.jpg

Beast

frank one-shots him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wait... if Beast can't beat him, you're giving Frank a knife so he can skin him? That's cruel.

Frank has a monstrous damage soak, is highly skilled and his strength is greatly underestimated on KMC:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/77829/1411639-559695_punisherusagent2at3_super.jpg
Didn't he also kick Paladin in the balls in that same issue?

Beast has a heart attack when he realizes that he's fighting someone that can actually win the fights that he gets into.

Frank would mutilate Hank

Originally posted by deathslash
Beast has a heart attack when he realizes that he's fighting someone that can actually win the fights that he gets into.

Nah.

Otherwise he'd have had one in every fight he has.

Beast wins

Originally posted by carver9
Beast wins

How?

Frank can literally eat him.

Do I need to post scans of the Hulk being scared shitless of the Punisher?

Carvie, I'm going to pound your chocolate butt tonight, I swear to Stan Lee.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How?

Frank can literally eat him.

Do I need to post scans of the Hulk being scared shitless of the Punisher?

Carvie, I'm going to pound your chocolate butt tonight, I swear to Stan Lee.

To be fair, he's never held a Punisher comic in his life, and there's very few Punisher crossovers with Hulk.

Beast destroys Frank

If Beast trained for years and was mutated further to Sabretooth levels and fought an inferior clone of himself, he would still lose.

Are we actually gonna have a debate about this?

We can debate how many seconds Hank keeps his consciousness.

What version of The Beast are we talking? There are three.

EDIT: Maybe four.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How?

Frank can literally eat him.

Do I need to post scans of the Hulk being scared shitless of the Punisher?

Carvie, I'm going to pound your chocolate butt tonight, I swear to Stan Lee.

By being better in every way minus fighting ability.

At the rest of your post...

Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Daredevil are better in every way, times 10.


Name three characters Castle has beaten.

Bullseye alone is more then Beast can handle.

Originally posted by cdtm
Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Daredevil are better in every way, times 10.


Name three characters Castle has beaten.

Bullseye alone is more then Beast can handle.

Why are you mentioning Wolverine and Spiderman when both would slaughter Punisher in combat? Dont even know why you brought up Matt.

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you mentioning Wolverine and Spiderman when both would slaughter Punisher in combat? Dont even know why you brought up Matt.


Right, you read comics.

Originally posted by cdtm
Right, you read comics.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by carver9
Concession accepted.

And it appears, a master of logic, and reading comprehension.


If you don't know why I brought up Matt, you couldn't have read very much Punisher.

Originally posted by Deadline
What version of The Beast are we talking? There are three.

EDIT: Maybe four.

More.

You've really lost your touch...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
More.

You've really lost your touch...

Well I've read a lot of comics but I got big gaps in my reading history.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well I've read a lot of comics but I got big gaps in my reading history.

In the end, it doesn't matter.

Frank took shots from bloodlusted Spider-Man, his speed impressed Wolverine, he's familiar with pressure point strikes that Beast is vulnerable to, he goes toe to toe with f*cking Daredevil - who raped Beast in one panel...

When we just compare the powersets (Frank - peak human, Beast - enhanced), it seems like Hank can win comfortably.

But he can't. His battle showings only look good if we focus on the fights with fodder.

I think Beast might actually take this one. I know Frank is skilled, but the primary way he's able to hang with really skilled fighters like DD is with his damage soak. Beast has super strength and speed/agility so he won't be able to take hit after hit the way he can with street level guys and he'll have some difficulty landing shots of his own. I see it kinda the way Rocky got his ass whupped by Clubber the first time around. Basically just a bad match up for Frank in regards to typical fighting styles when it comes to a forum fight.

So you're ignoring Frank taking punches from much stronger guys?

Beast can win only if you look at handbook stats.

In comics, naked Frank would assrape a dozen Beasts and three Silver Surfers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So you're ignoring Frank taking punches from much stronger guys?

Beast can win only if you look at handbook stats.

In comics, naked Frank would assrape a dozen Beasts and three Silver Surfers.
I don't doubt that he's taken punches from stronger guys, that kind of thing happens all the time in comics. Hell I'm pretty sure Hank himself has taken shots from the Juggernaut and gotten back up afterwards... doesn't mean he can't be KO'd by someone weaker. Franks going h2h up against someone who's stronger, faster, with a healing factor here. I just think it's a bad matchup for him in a rock/paper/scissors kinda way.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't doubt that he's taken punches from stronger guys, that kind of thing happens all the time in comics.

But Frank excels at this stuff. It's his hidden superpower.

(it really is, check out his comics)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hell I'm pretty sure Hank himself has taken shots from the Juggernaut and gotten back up afterwards... doesn't mean he can't be KO'd by someone weaker. Franks going h2h up against someone who's stronger, faster, with a healing factor here. I just think it's a bad matchup for him in a rock/paper/scissors kinda way.

His "healing factor" (if we dare call it that) won't help him on the battlefield; it's shitty af. It just means he might survive getting assraped, in the hospital, long after the fight has ended. His original grey form is not discussed here.

Faster? What feats suggest that? Getting tagged by everyone from handicapped thugs to peak humans?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So you're ignoring Frank taking punches from much stronger guys?

Beast can win only if you look at handbook stats.

In comics, naked Frank would assrape a dozen Beasts and three Silver Surfers.

Beast did extremely well against both Wolverine (who complimented Beast speed) AND Sabertooth. He outright stomped Spiral who is leagues above Punisher and she also had weapons. A serious Beast would rape Punisher.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But Frank excels at this stuff. It's his hidden superpower.

(it really is, check out his comics)

I know he's got a good chin, but it's not like it's impossible for people without super human strength to KO him either. Do you think it would be impossible for Captain America or even Daredevil to KO him? Because Beast is stronger than both of them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
His "healing factor" (if we dare call it that) won't help him on the battlefield; it's shitty af. It just means he might survive getting assraped, in the hospital, long after the fight has ended. His original grey form is not discussed here.

Faster? What feats suggest that? Getting tagged by everyone from handicapped thugs to peak humans?

I'm well aware than his healing factor isn't on par with guys like Wolverine, but that doesn't mean it's totally inconsequential in a fight.

Flash gets tagged all the time too, such is the nature of comics. Beast also dances around folks on occasion, and he does it using super/enhanced speed/agility. Something tells me that he's got better showings of superballing around opponents than Frank does, thus I believe he's got superior speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Beast did extremely well against both Wolverine (who complimented Beast speed) AND Sabertooth. He outright stomped Spiral who is leagues above Punisher and she also had weapons. A serious Beast would rape Punisher.

You need to read more Wolverine.

The only time Beast did good was when he went feral and Wolverine was devolved to his kid state --- and guess how it went? A single stab made Beast flee and Logan regenerated with ease.

That's not my words. That's Wolverine's words and Beast didn't question them.

Originally posted by carver9
AND Sabertooth.

No.

In the Red Zone, Creed was already taxed from fighting other guys and he still beat Hank.

In Wolverine & The X-Men, he nearly killed Hank.

Originally posted by carver9
He outright stomped Spiral who is leagues above Punisher and she also had weapons.

Gonna give you that one. As I don't remember how it went.

Still, it's just a single showing. Outlier.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know he's got a good chin, but it's not like it's impossible for people without super human strength to KO him either. Do you think it would be impossible for Captain America or even Daredevil to KO him? Because Beast is stronger than both of them.

It's possible, sure.

But has Hank proved he can do that? I'm being serious here. Has he? He always finds a new way to get dominated, if he doesn't bring his super-science toys.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm well aware than his healing factor isn't on par with guys like Wolverine, but that doesn't mean it's totally inconsequential in a fight.

That's exactly what it means.

Why?

Because it's not battlefield-effective. He'll heal nicely long after the fight has ended. That's it.

During the fight? It means shit. And if you want to get technical, it's only 1/2 or 1/3 of normal human's recovery rate. According to Hank's own words. So shitty af.

You can prove me wrong, of course.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Flash gets tagged all the time too, such is the nature of comics. Beast also dances around folks on occasion, and he does it using super/enhanced speed/agility. Something tells me that he's got better showings of superballing around opponents than Frank does, thus I believe he's got superior speed.

Frank connects multiple times when fighting a guy with super-senses and an extra radar sense mimicking echolocation. Who also happens to be a crazy skilled ninja.

Beast's speed is mostly about harmlessly bouncing off superior opponents. Wouldn't be surprised if he bounced off such way against Frank's kevlar.

Didn't Beast have an amp when he made Spiral retreat?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Didn't Beast have an amp when he made Spiral retreat?

His X-Factor massive strength upgrade, you mean?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think Beast might actually take this one. I know Frank is skilled, but the primary way he's able to hang with really skilled fighters like DD is with his damage soak.


Depends on the fight there are fighst were he gets a lot of hits in.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Beast has super strength and speed/agility so he won't be able to take hit after hit the way he can with street level guys and he'll have some difficulty landing shots of his own. I see it kinda the way Rocky got his ass whupped by Clubber the first time around. Basically just a bad match up for Frank in regards to typical fighting styles when it comes to a forum fight.

Yea but he's not as skilled as DD and he isn't as hard to hit as DD. Yea I know DD doesn't actually have superhuman speed or agility but I would say that his radar sense and training make him harder to hit than Cap. When it comes to pure dodging he's almost as agile as Spiderman.

Frank has good showings against Deadpool and Alyosha Kravinoff who has superhuman speed and strength and martial art training. I would say Alyosha Kravinoff looks more dangerous than Beast and has beaten Black Panther in h2h.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's possible, sure.

But has Hank proved he can do that? I'm being serious here. Has he? He always finds a new way to get dominated, if he doesn't bring his super-science toys.

He's knocked around a Ghost Rider(though GR was being controlled by the brood), thrown cars, done "ground pounds", and unless I'm remembering what I heard wrong was effective against Danger, so something tells me that it's totally possible for him to KO Frank. And you've got to remember, Beast actually seems to PREFER to throw kicks instead of punches, and kicks are obviously stronger so Frank would be taking shots that did more damage than he would against someone else in Beast's class who's primarily a puncher.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's exactly what it means.

Why?

Because it's not battlefield-effective. He'll heal nicely long after the fight has ended. That's it.

During the fight? It means shit. And if you want to get technical, it's only 1/2 or 1/3 of normal human's recovery rate. According to Hank's own words. So shitty af.

You can prove me wrong, of course.
It was 3x humans during his "ape' phase, honestly not sure how much that got enhanced when he got upgraded. And even if we were to assume that it's only 3x, it would still make a difference in a drawn out fight because it would mean that minor hits wouldn't stack up on him the way they do would Frank. Any edge, is an edge.



Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Frank connects multiple times when fighting a guy with super-senses and an extra radar sense mimicking echolocation. Who also happens to be a crazy skilled ninja.

Beast's speed is mostly about harmlessly bouncing off superior opponents. Wouldn't be surprised if he bounced off such way against Frank's kevlar.

Spiderman is notorious for having difficulty issues with damn near anyone who knows any kinds of MA, and unless I'm mistaken Frank's normally keeping him off balance with guns and such(which he doesn't have here). And I'm having a hard time remembering their fights, but when it actually comes down to h2h Daredevil forgoes his ultra evasive fighting style where he's constantly bouncing around and instead fights him like they're standing toe to toe in an octagon. And even then, I believe Matt lands a fair amount more hits which is why people say that Frank hangs in mostly because of his crazy damage soak. Beast on the other hand, almost always jumps around even 1 on 1 against regular humans. And if he's landing a fair amount more hits it's going to add up quicker than it does for Matt because Beast is stronger.

Originally posted by Deadline
Depends on the fight there are fighst were he gets a lot of hits in.



Yea but he's not as skilled as DD and he isn't as hard to hit as DD. Yea I know DD doesn't actually have superhuman speed or agility but I would say that his radar sense and training make him harder to hit than Cap. When it comes to pure dodging he's almost as agile as Spiderman.

Frank has good showings against Deadpool and Alyosha Kravinoff who has superhuman speed and strength and martial art training. I would say Alyosha Kravinoff looks more dangerous than Beast and has beaten Black Panther in h2h.
You're insane if you think DD hit's harder than Cap.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're insane if you think DD hit's harder than Cap.

That's not what I said.....

Originally posted by Deadline
That's not what I said.....
That's exactly what you said...

Originally posted by Deadline
Depends on the fight there are fighst were he gets a lot of hits in.



Yea but he's not as skilled as DD and he isn't as hard to hit as DD. Yea I know DD doesn't actually have superhuman speed or agility but I would say that his radar sense and training make him harder to hit than Cap. When it comes to pure dodging he's almost as agile as Spiderman.

Frank has good showings against Deadpool and Alyosha Kravinoff who has superhuman speed and strength and martial art training. I would say Alyosha Kravinoff looks more dangerous than Beast and has beaten Black Panther in h2h.

darthgoober can't read.

Darth I said that DD is harder to hit than Cap...not that he hits harder than Cap. You joking with me?

Originally posted by NemeBro
darthgoober can't read.

Originally posted by Deadline
Darth I said that DD is harder to hit than Cap...not that he hits harder than Cap. You joking with me?

Wow, just realized I reversed the words in my head lol. My bad dl

^np.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that he's necessarily harder to hit. Cap doesn't do the ultra evasion thing as often as Matt, but I think that's mostly because he's got the shield to defend him. But when he's without it, he can still be crazy hard to hit even though he doesn't do the showy acrobatic thing most of the time. Ironfist himself noticed that he's super effective at dodging with minimal movement. Cap's someone that even Spidey can have a really tough time landing hits against, just like DD. Hell one villain compared Cap's combat speed to old school(and I mean really old school) Quicksilver's, only moments after fighting Quicksilver lol

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You need to read more Wolverine.

The only time Beast did good was when he went feral and Wolverine was devolved to his kid state --- and guess how it went? A single stab made Beast flee and Logan regenerated with ease.

That's not my words. That's Wolverine's words and Beast didn't question them.

Lol... he did well here. Ended in a stalemate with Beast on top.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148626-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-013.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148625-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-014.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148624-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-015.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148623-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-016.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148620-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-017.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148619-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-018.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148614-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-019.jpg

He also did well here until Wolverine went Berserk...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148642-wolverine_162_14.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148638-wolverine_162_15.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148634-wolverine_162_16.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148633-wolverine_162_17.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148631-wolverine_162_18.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148630-wolverine_162_19.jpg

Also, let's not forget about Beast fight against Kraven where he outright stomps him to the point of Kraven trying to run and retreat and having to be saved by the Xmen.

Sabertooth have one of the best healing factors in all of comics. I doubt he wasnt at 100% when he fought Beast.

I dont know why people dont mention Beast stomping Frenzy...

https://m.imgur.com/a/XcDkx

Or him taking out Danger. The same being who ruined a group of Xmen...

https://m.imgur.com/a/W2vMG

Here is the Kraven fight just in case anyone is interested...

https://m.imgur.com/a/0HTJP

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... he did well here. Ended in a stalemate with Beast on top.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148626-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-013.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148625-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-014.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148624-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-015.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148623-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-016.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148620-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-017.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148619-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-018.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148614-astonishing-x-men-03-pg-019.jpg

He also did well here until Wolverine went Berserk...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148642-wolverine_162_14.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148638-wolverine_162_15.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148634-wolverine_162_16.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148633-wolverine_162_17.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148631-wolverine_162_18.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148630-wolverine_162_19.jpg

Also, let's not forget about Beast fight against Kraven where he outright stomps him to the point of Kraven trying to run and retreat and having to be saved by the Xmen.

Sabertooth have one of the best healing factors in all of comics. I doubt he wasnt at 100% when he fought Beast.

1) Wolverine ended pinned, but with claws at Hank's face and another arm ready to slice his throat, if needed.

2) A glancing shot almost killed Hank, wow.

3) Read The Best There Is, then come back.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1) Wolverine ended pinned, but with claws at Hank's face and another arm ready to slice his throat, if needed.

2) A glancing shot almost killed Hank, wow.

3) Read The Best There Is, then come back.

The first fight was a stalemate obvious with both ready to end it.

Wolverine outright tells us in the scan that Hank was playing possum. He got up smiling still in peak condition.

I did read Wolverine the best there is, lol and I'm not going to answer any of your crazy questions about the comic. Just know that I did. Anything else about this book will get unanswered.

Originally posted by carver9
The first fight was a stalemate obvious with both ready to end it.

Beast had no way to end it.

Unless you think he could tax Logan's hf in one attack, somehow avoiding getting stabbed in the skull and getting beheaded...

Which Logan would never do, as he was toying with Beast there. And he could tank & heal from Beast's best attacks, if Hank was lucky to land them (which he wasn't).

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine outright tells us in the scan that Hank was playing possum. He got up smiling still in peak condition.

Beast recovered from a glancing blow -- Logan was afraid he ended him, accidentally.

Originally posted by carver9
I did read Wolverine the best there is, lol and I'm not going to answer any of your crazy questions about the comic. Just know that I did. Anything else about this book will get unanswered.

No, you didn't.

Otherwise you'd know what I was talking about.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Beast had no way to end it.

Unless you think he could tax Logan's hf in one attack, somehow avoiding getting stabbed in the skull and getting beheaded...

Which Logan would never do, as he was toying with Beast there. And he could tank & heal from Beast's best attacks, if Hank was lucky to land them (which he wasn't).



Beast recovered from a glancing blow -- Logan was afraid he ended him, accidentally.



No, you didn't.

Otherwise you'd know what I was talking about.

Of course you'll say he was toying with Beast. I'll leave you with your opinion on that bro.

You said the attack almost killed Hank when it didnt. Wolverine tells us he was playing possum. Dont care about Logan being afraid of ending him or not. My point was, the attack did nothing since Beast got up as if nothing happened and Wolverine outright tells us Beast wasnt affected by the attack.

As stated above, you can believe I didnt read it. I'm not here to convince you. Enjoy YOUR opinion. Any other comments about this will be completely ignored.

Originally posted by carver9
Of course you'll say he was toying with Beast. I'll leave you with your opinion on that bro.

Did you read the comic?

You know the context, right?

And you know Wolverine was perfectly calm holding both sets of claws at Hank's face and neck, hmmm?

Originally posted by carver9
You said the attack almost killed Hank when it didnt. Wolverine tells us he was playing possum. Dont care about Logan being afraid of ending him or not. My point was, the attack did nothing since Beast got up as if nothing happened and Wolverine outright tells us Beast wasnt affected by the attack.

Wolverine went berserker for one moment. One swipe could've ended him.

Yeah, an inch or so and your Beast would've been in a morgue. Those are the same claws that go through your Hulk as if he was made out of rice paper.

Originally posted by carver9
As stated above, you can believe I didnt read it. I'm not here to convince you. Enjoy YOUR opinion. Any other comments about this will be completely ignored.



I know you didn't read it, simple as that.

Just as I know you never read Whedon's Astonishing or Wolverine v3

Yep, this conversation is over. It's always the same. Carver, you didnt read the comic. Yes I did Stilt. No you didnt Carver. Yep, I did. Waste of energy. You won.

Punisher has outraced lightning.

But I am in an uncommonly rare good mood today, on this, the birth of my daughter.

Amazing. You just received a blessing. Congratulations man.

Congratulations, Saint

She will outdebate carver at the age of 2, I'm sure.

Originally posted by NemeBro
darthgoober can't read.
Best way to summarize Darthgoober.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Punisher has outraced lightning.

But I am in an uncommonly rare good mood today, on this, the birth of my daughter.

Congratulations.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
We can debate how many seconds Hank keeps his consciousness.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No.

In the Red Zone, Creed was already taxed from fighting other guys and he still beat Hank.


Sabes literally one shot Hank...

Originally posted by carver9
I dont know why people dont mention Beast stomping Frenzy...

https://m.imgur.com/a/XcDkx
Because it was from an era where Beast had an upgrade that's been dropped by Marvel. It's not really relevant, unless you're writing Dareangel fanfiction.
Originally posted by carver9
The first fight was a stalemate obvious with both ready to end it.

It's not a stalemate if Wolverine's attack will kill Beast, and Beast's attack won't do shit to Wolverine.
Originally posted by carver9
Beast did extremely well against both Wolverine (who complimented Beast speed) AND Sabertooth. He outright stomped Spiral who is leagues above Punisher and she also had weapons. A serious Beast would rape Punisher.
Originally posted by StyleTime

Sabretooth had just fought Caliban, Cyclops, and Iceman. He was on the run after months of imprisonment at the X-Mansion. He escaped to a train where Beast ambushed him, and Sabretooth, in one hit, still had Beast dead to rights before Cyclops returned to save Beast's ass. Beast later fought Sabretooth with a group and still got saved by Jean once Sabretooth started to fight back.


As for Spiral, he ambushed her while she was unaware and still failed to KO her. When the situation was reversed later, Spiral one-shot Beast.

The one valid win here is Danger. Whedon liked his Beast more competent than most, so he did get that feat. However, it's 1 victory from 10-12 years ago. Before that, you'd have to go back to basically the X-Factor days, with an upgrade that no longer applies, for consistent feats from Beast. If we're having to dig like that for wins, then maybe it's time to admit he ain't all that?

Beast's performances just plain don't sync up with his paper stats.

beast should be able to take out a weaponless punisher but there is no way it would happen without cis/pis...

I just cannot see Frank beating Beast without some sort of weapon.

Frank can vary drastically with writers but with his recent showing with IF it looks like we might be going back to Remender levels.