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As the title says.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
As the title says.

None of the Maia were allowed to directly challenge Sauron, but I'm sure Eonwe would make short work of pretty much every orc alive.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
None of the Maia were allowed to directly challenge Sauron, but I'm sure Eonwe would make short work of pretty much every orc alive. Didn't Eonwe drag Sauron back for judgement?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Didn't Eonwe drag Sauron back for judgement?

Not during the Third Age, no.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Not during the Third Age, no. I think Eonwe was undoubtedly above Sauron in every way barring magical abilities. You put a sword in that dude's hand and he is wrecking shop on everything, but since they couldn't challenge Sauron, he could just kill the ring-wraiths and shit.

This is a dude thats the best with weapons at any point in time, above Feanor, Fingolfin, or even Morgoth, in terms of PURE Weapons fighting.

Eonwe was very much more powerful than Gandalf and would have quickly overcome Sauron's armed forces. The point of the LORT setting though, is that Eonwe isn't there and Gandalf and Saruman are - Gandalf and Saruman were much lesser beings in origin than Sauron was on origin.

Originally posted by heartfire
Eonwe was very much more powerful than Gandalf and would have quickly overcome Sauron's armed forces. The point of the LORT setting though, is that Eonwe isn't there and Gandalf and Saruman are - Gandalf and Saruman were much lesser beings in origin than Sauron was on origin. I dunno what really happened with Eonwe and why he didn't end up going instead of Gandalf.

Of all the Maia, they get the 2 weakest.

No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.

Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.

^ Gandalf was understated but strong. He also had a Ring of Power.

Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar. He didn't need to be wise cause he coulda just killed everything and thrown Sauron around like a f*cking ragdoll if given the chance.

Eonwe's just on another level, he could be a bonafide Valar, but alas he was stuck being Manwe's Herald.

Uh, you sorta missed my whole point. The Istari weren't allowed to use their full power against Sauron or to directly confront him. Whether Eonwe could defeat Sauron and his entire army is irrelevant as, if he was sent instead of Gandalf, he wouldn't be allowed to do so by the Valar. Instead, he would be forced to guide the free peoples and he wouldn't be nearly as adept at that as Gandalf.

And I have no clue where you come to the conclusion that Eonwe could have been a Valar. He is the greatest weapon master, sure, but that does't mean he is the most powerful Maiar let alone on par with any of the Valar (which we know for a fact isn't true as the Valar are directly stated to be the most powerful Ainur.).

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, you sorta missed my whole point. The Istari weren't allowed to use their full power against Sauron or to directly confront him. Whether Eonwe could defeat Sauron and his entire army is irrelevant as, if he was sent instead of Gandalf, he wouldn't be allowed to do so by the Valar. Instead, he would be forced to guide the free peoples and he wouldn't be nearly as adept at that as Gandalf.

And I have no clue where you come to the conclusion that Eonwe could have been a Valar. He is the greatest weapon master, sure, but that does't mean he is the most powerful Maiar let alone on par with any of the Valar (which we know for a fact isn't true as the Valar are directly stated to be the most powerful Ainur.). It means he could beat anyone, Maia, Elf, Human, Valar, in a weapons' duel.

That includes people like Feanor, Fingolfin, Morgoth, Sauron, even his brother Manwe.

You can't tell me you expect Sauron to threaten someone like Feanor in combat, and considering Feanor is known most for his martial ability, and Eonwe is above even that, he is EASILY the most powerful Maia.

Sure it's ABC Logic, but its pretty clear-cut when it says "he is the best might in arms".

It means he is the best fighter with weapons, ever, no one who has ever lived had surpassed him, he is the best of the best only if we consider he has a blade in hand. Even if you consider that its only talking about people that are alive AT THE TIME, that still includes all the Valar, Maiar, and anyone else alive at the time, which naturally includes the all-powerful Morgoth.

I'm sure Feanor would have a small struggle with Sauron, but I'm pretty sure Eonwe would defeat him, considering that is both of their biggest strengths, martial combat, and Eonwe is outright stated to be superior to not only him, but everyone.

Eonwe was also usually the one that was sent to deal with most threats and when he led the forces at one point, he pushed Morgoth back, IIRC, thats a big IIRC because I haven't read the Silmarillion in years.

Either way, you're right, it's not about Eonwe being the strongest, sure they can't use their full power, but Eonwe would make pretty damn quick work of the Witch-King and Saruman if put on the opposite side. My point is, if Saruman and the Witch-King try to push their luck against that particular no-nonsense Maia, they will find themselves in a world of trouble.

Furthermore, enlighten me on who you think are the weakest Maiar are, if not Saruman and Olorin.

Ok. That's not relevant to what I said but ok. Just because Eonwe is the greatest warrior doesn't mean he could have been a Valar. And no, Eonwe never fought Morgoth.

As for weaker Maiar, any of the other Istari will obviously be weaker. Not to mention many of the other nameless Maiar will likely be weaker as well.

^Everything just my opinion .
Originally posted by ares834
No clue where the idea that Gandalf is the second weakest Maia comes from. It's certainly not true.

Regardless, the whole point of the Istari was that they weren't supposed to use their power and fight, rather they were supposed to guide. Eonwe wouldn't have done nearly as good of a job as Gandalf who is stated to be the wisest of the Maiar.

Saruman the white was the most powerful of the istari, as a Maiar he should be fairly high in power, similar to Sauron without the Ring. Gandalf the grey was a notch below him, as Gandalf the White he was a notch above Saruman. In his Maiar form he should be Eonwes equal overall.

I don't know what goes through your mind to think that someone who'd beat Feanor and Fingolfin in a duel also wouldn't beat Sauron.

It's absolutely insane.

Sauron has lost to people before, hell Gothmog vs Sauron is debated to this day.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I don't know what goes through your mind to think that someone who'd beat Feanor and Fingolfin in a duel also wouldn't beat Sauron.

It's absolutely insane.

Sauron has lost to people before, hell Gothmog vs Sauron is debated to this day.
In a Duell, like sword vs sword sure. But if Sauron is prepped and chooses his spells accodingly, with the one ring, I think he would win.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
In a Duell, like sword vs sword sure. But if Sauron is prepped and chooses his spells accodingly, with the one ring, I think he would win. So you're saying if he has prep, has the one ring, and range, he could win?

Of course he could, even Gandalf could in that situation, but even then if Eonwe gets close to him it's over.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
So you're saying if he has prep, has the one ring, and range, he could win?

Of course he could, even Gandalf could in that situation, but even then if Eonwe gets close to him it's over.

Most likely he would win. Without the Ring before weakened, maybe.

I doubt Gandalf the White could, however, Gandalf in his Maiar form, maybe.

I hate myself so much, lol.

This thread is so bad and makes me look extremely misinformed, sorry ya'll.

Originally posted by ares834
And no, Eonwe never fought Morgoth. You right. They were going to fight in the unfinished Dagor Dagorath though, IIRC.

Lol, would've been hilarious watching the OG Fellowship of the Ring try to get involved in this conflict and get no-diffed. (Although Legolas probably would've done okay, due to being Mr. Perfect.)

Tulkas was the greatest fist-fighter, he beat the shit out of Morgoth with his bare hands.

Eonwe was stated to be the best with weapons, so already that puts him wayyy up there above people like Feanor solely because of that statement alone, Feanor has way more feats and SHOULD theoretically win, but because of that statement alone in a fair fight you literally cannot bet on him to win since Eonwe was already outright stated to be "better" then him and also "better" then literally anyone in the Tolkien-verse that only uses weapons to fight.