Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who would win?

Plagueis overwhelms Plagueis with the Force!

...wot

Caedus probably wins in Dueling, but Plagueis overwhelms him with the Force, kind of like the Venamis scenario.

Caedus takes this.

It's difficult to say. Plagueis is probably stronger in the Force from a mastery standpoint, but Caedus could be speculated to have more raw power due to his potential. He's also more experienced as a combatant, though both are probably comparably technically skilled, and has a greater pain tolerance.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's difficult to say. Plagueis is probably stronger in the Force from a mastery standpoint, but Caedus could be speculated to have more raw power due to his potential. He's also more experienced as a combatant, though both are probably comparably technically skilled, and has a greater pain tolerance. You just made the same mistake as me, it is only Sabers!

Plagueis's strength in the Force would factor into his lightsaber combat.

Caedus stomps, lmao.

It's hard to say seeing that peak Plagueis never participated in a proper duel, but it's probably fair to assume that a scientist that loathed lightsabers would be at a disadvantage against a dueling enthusiast, assuming there isn't an overwhelming discrepancy in their capacity to augment their bodies. Which there shouldn't be.

Plagueis may not have liked lightsabers, but iirc he was still very, very good with them to the point where I'm not sure if technical skill is going to be a major factor - and you could easily argue that he's stronger in the Force than Caedus, though I imagine Caedus may have more raw reserves due to his greater potential.

How is Plagueis more powerful?

Better feats - midichlorian manipulation, unbalancing of the cosmic Force, accolades putting him as the strongest sith up to his time, etc.

Midi-manip is reflective of overall power and not just a neat ability? Jeez. The Unbalancing has been ripped apart so many times. There are multiple accolades? Not just one blurb?

I'd like to see how the unbalancing has been "ripped apart".

Caedus demolishes him in sabers.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Midi-manip is reflective of overall power and not just a neat ability? Jeez. The Unbalancing has been ripped apart so many times. There are multiple accolades? Not just one blurb?
he didn't say it was reflective of overall power, he mentioned it in conjunction with other feats/accolades to pain plagueis as the more powerful. stop strawmanning the **** out of him lmao

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Plagueis's strength in the Force would factor into his lightsaber combat. Would that count?

Caedus.

Originally posted by CactusJoe
he didn't say it was reflective of overall power, he mentioned it in conjunction with other feats/accolades to pain plagueis as the more powerful. stop strawmanning the **** out of him lmao
We're talking about lightsabers-only, so the mention of this one ability is irrelevant, unless it was supposed to reflect Plagueis' overall power.

Maybe it's time to add yourself to that list of retarded users

Originally posted by RealistRacism
We're talking about lightsabers-only, so the mention of this one ability is irrelevant, unless it was supposed to reflect Plagueis' overall power.

Maybe it's time to add yourself to that list of retarded users
it reflects his overall power in conjunction with the other stuff he mentioned https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_ehkzeab.png

Except it doesn't though. He listed a single ability, not a feat with said ability, that doesn't reflect power on it's own or in conjunction with a blurb and a showing that took an eternity of prep + another force wielder.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Except it doesn't though. He listed a single ability, not a feat with said ability, that doesn't reflect power on it's own or in conjunction with a blurb and a showing that took an eternity of prep + another force wielder.
so someone being skilled with midichlorian manipulation and having unbalanced the force, regardless of time spent + another force wielde helping him, doesn't indicate his immense power? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_ckkn9up.pngwhat does it reflect then? that hes good at making cheeseburgers? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_img_6867.png

yeah, dueling ability is heavily linked to force power, and different force abilities are generally correlated; someone who is very good with lots of force powers is probably really good at dueling augmentation too.

In this case, Plagueis is not only cosmically really powerful but he can also master a very potent force technique to an unprecedented degree while having at least one accolade saying he’s the strongest sith to his point ever - and he’s described as an expert duelist.

also on my phone so this prob reads awkwardly

Originally posted by CactusJoe
so someone being skilled with midichlorian manipulation and having unbalanced the force, regardless of time spent + another force wielde helping him, doesn't indicate his immense power? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_ckkn9up.pngwhat does it reflect then? that hes good at making cheeseburgers? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_img_6867.png
He never mentioned 'skill', implying that merely using the ability was a feat/indicative of great power, which I disagree with. The extent to which Plagueis used it could be, but that's not what he said. In any case, there are powerful telepaths who have lesser TK showings, telekinetics who aren't great telepaths etc.

We've reached peak semantics now, lmao.

@Elim
Of course it is, I've never denied this fact. Plagueis doesn't really have 'lots of force powers' though, does he... Aside from Midi-chlorion manipulation, he has the standard abilities afforded to any random dark acolyte.

Ancients have mastered potent force techniques that Plagueis doesn't even know about, and they're all sub-Ventress in sabers here. They too share many power-related accolades, maybe not one such as the single most powerful (barring the retconned Kun and Vitiate quotes), but enough to imply a placing among the top 10. Lots of characters are described as expert duelists.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
He never mentioned 'skill', implying that merely using the ability was a feat/indicative of great power, which I disagree with. The extent to which Plagueis used it could be, but that's not what he said. In any case, there are powerful telepaths who have lesser TK showings, telekinetics who aren't great telepaths etc.

We've reached peak semantics now, lmao.
you're complaining about semantics AND complaining that he didn't specify plagueis' feats with midichlorian manipulation https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/3w2MWDX.png you're well aware of his feats with them, and let's not act as if it would have changed your mind anyway https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/3w2MWDX.png i also have no idea about the relevance of your last two sentences. i never said that plagueis was more powerful than caedus, let alone more powerful based on midichlorian manipulation alone https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.png goddamn illeterate monkey https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png foh https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/7ymFBMzl.png

He mentioned the ability, not feats with the ability. He's stating that using the power and those other feats makes him more powerful than Caedus. I dispute that using midi-chlorion manipulation makes him more powerful than Caedus. You sperg out.

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
He mentioned the ability, not feats with the ability. He's stating that using the power and those other feats makes him more powerful than Caedus. I dispute that using midi-chlorion manipulation makes him more powerful than Caedus. You sperg out.

You're an idiot.
good thing no one claimed using midi-chlorian manipulation makes someone more powerful than caedus

https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png

Ellimist literally did, which is what I was responding to. Lmfao, you're dumber than Kbro now.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Ellimist literally did, which is what I was responding to. Lmfao, you're dumber than Kbro now.
he mentioned it in conjunction with other stuff https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.pngi've already explained this you dumb retard https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/3w2MWDX.png but all good keep thinking that repeating yourself is gonna help you https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_a7uc7c0.png

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. The ability being a reason for his superiority to Caedus is dumb, I never misunderstood it as Ellim claiming it was the sole determinant. Whether it's in conjunction with other stuff is irrelevant, since it's not a factor in determining power at all.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
You completely misunderstood what I was saying. The ability being a reason for his superiority to Caedus is dumb, not that that is the sole determinant. Whether it's in conjunction with other stuff is irrelevant, since it's not a factor in determining power at all.
you're grasping on straws now boi https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png and yes it is, every force power that someone has is a factor in determining their power https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.png that's logic for 5 year olds https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/uxelfEP.png especially midichlorian manipulation which is a rare and presumably difficult power to master https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/sabu.png

Range of force powers doesn't determine power, no.

Speaks to natural aptitude with the ability, not some God-like actualised power.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Range of force powers doesn't determine power, no.
perhaps not ''determine'' as in someone who has 6 powers is automatically > someone with 5 powers, but it obviously indicates an important point to bring up when discussing power https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.png

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Speaks to natural aptitude with the ability, not some God-like actualised power.
no one is calling plagueis a god https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.png https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_ckkn9up.png

Really? It's pertinent to bring up next to an 'unbalancing the force' feat and a "Most Powerful" quote? Lmao.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Really? It's pertinent to bring up next to an 'unbalancing the force' feat and a "Most Powerful" quote? Lmao.
so you're saying ellimist thinks plagueis is a god https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/U9bGRy9.png i'll let him answer that one https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_ckkn9up.png i've done my job https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/cQs0wlc.png

Hyperbole, Jack. I think it being a factor in his supposed superiority is stupid. You posted unaesthetic stickers and typed in broken English, your job is certainly done.

Plagueis is a solid high tier 8.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Hyperbole, Jack. I think it being a factor in his supposed superiority is stupid. You posted unaesthetic stickers and typed in broken English, your job is certainly done.
when did i type in broken english https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/q7n7s7m.png

Maybe it's the insertion of a black man's head every sentence or two that makes it appear that way. Basic grammar/proper punctuation would help as well

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Maybe it's the insertion of a black man's head every sentence or two that makes it appear that way.
https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_mntgucp.png screaming

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Basic grammar would help as well
you think i can't do basic grammar? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/3w2MWDX.png my friend i'm so good at english that online, people are surprised that i'm not a native speaker https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png imagine that people are hyping up Nai's english because he's german, i mean i'm literally far better https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/7qCiSUb.png

well this thread got hit by a ''Jack classic'' https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/beSFiXF.png

If by that you mean misinterpreting my first post and trailing off, sure.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
If by that you mean misinterpreting my first post and trailing off, sure.
the first part, no, because i didn't https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png in fact what happened was you misinterpreting ellimist's post and THEN me trailing off after that https://i.imgur.com/21xj9em.png

1. I ask how Plagueis is more powerful.
2. Ellimist says; Midi-chlorion manipulation, unbalancing the Force, and a power-related quote.
3. I ask how knowing midi-chlorion manipulation makes him more powerful than Caedus.
4. You said that this ability indicates immense power.
5. I disagree that knowing a power makes you immensely powerful overall.
6. You post mudmanoid heads and all-lower case sentences with nothing substantive.

Fact is, it's irrelevant whether or not it's in conjunction with other feats or accolades, because I don't think midi-chlorion manipulation is indicative of superior power at all. Huge win for you Jack

Originally posted by RealistRacism
1. I ask how Plagueis is more powerful.
2. Ellimist says; Midi-chlorion manipulation, unbalancing the Force, and a power-related quote.
3. I ask how knowing midi-chlorion manipulation makes him more powerful than Caedus.
4. You said that this ability indicates immense power.
5. I disagree that knowing a power makes you immensely powerful overall.
6. You post mudmanoid heads and all-lower case sentences with nothing substantive.

Fact is, it's irrelevant whether or not it's in conjunction with other feats or accolades, because I don't think midi-chlorion manipulation is indicative of superior power at all. Huge win for you Jack
oh man you're still going, i guess you're kinky since you like assraping this much https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_mntgucp.png all good so am i so i'll humor you https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/cQs0wlc.png you already fail at 4 tho, when did i say midichlorian manipulation indicates immense power https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_notsureif.png i said that it +that cosmic unbalance force shit obviously does but i never commented on midichlorian manipulation alone https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_tqharym.png and the fact that you at 5 disagree with that means you've disagreed with something i never claimed https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_bxwwlz0_1.png maybe you dont' care about conjunction but don't act as if i don't https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/m4cAVKu.png and again to your last bit, no one is saying midichlorian (chlorion https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/3w2MWDX.png) manipulation is indicative of superior power alone https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/vzkq30L.png

How many times have I said this... It doesn't matter whether alone or next to the other feats/'in conjunction', I don't see it as having any effect on overall power.

Plagueis having the ability to take a sh!t in conjunction with his unbalancing of the force feat and his 'Most Powerful' quote, doesn't make him being able to sh!t impressive.

Do you understand now? Or do I need to simplify it further?

Originally posted by RealistRacism
How many times have I said this... It doesn't matter whether alone or next to the other feats/'in conjunction', I don't see it as having any effect on overall power.

Plagueis having the ability to take a sh!t in conjunction with his unbalancing of the force feat and his 'Most Powerful' quote, doesn't make him being able to sh!t impressive.

Do you understand now? Or do I need to simplify it further?
you're a dumb ****ing retard you know that https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_hpimlvi.png your point 4 said i said midichlorian manipulation showed immense power. now quote where i said it did https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tYD0G.png if you can't then you lose https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/HeNieBM.jpg

Did anyone else recoil in horror at the sight of that ugly camel faced ****?

Originally posted by Unbowed
Did anyone else recoil in horror at the sight of that ugly camel faced ****?
https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/hw_HCw.png
https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png

Originally posted by CactusJoe
you're a dumb ****ing retard you know that https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_hpimlvi.png your point 4 said i said midichlorian manipulation showed immense power. now quote where i said it did https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tYD0G.png if you can't then you lose https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/HeNieBM.jpg
i accept your concession https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_img_6866.png

You stated being skilled in midi-chlorion manipulation was a factor that indicated Plagueis was immensely powerful. I don't agree. Your stickers are atrocious.

"being skilled with midichlorian manipulation and having unbalanced the force, regardless of time spent + another force wielde helping him, doesn't indicate his immense power?"

It's all so tiresome. Pretty much any response of yours can just be countered with the below post. Ellimist thought the ability was a factor, you agreed, and I didn't.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
He mentioned the ability, not feats with the ability. He's stating that using the power and those other feats makes him more powerful than Caedus. I dispute that using midi-chlorion manipulation makes him more powerful than Caedus. You sperg out.

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
You stated being skilled in midi-chlorion manipulation was a factor that indicated Plagueis was immensely powerful. I don't agree. Your stickers are atrocious.

"being skilled with midichlorian manipulation and having unbalanced the force, regardless of time spent + another force wielde helping him, doesn't indicate his immense power?"
read what i said https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/nctLYwC.png i clearly said AND, so i meant in conjunction with each other https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/sabu.png which is why i also said ''maybe you dont' care about conjunction but don't act as if i don't'' https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png i win again https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/IMG_6868.png

And I said 'factor', which means I don't think it's even worth mentioning 'in conjunction.' Keep telling yourself that hun

Originally posted by RealistRacism
And I said 'factor', which means I don't think it's even worth mentioning 'in conjunction.' Keep telling yourself that hun
sure thing bud https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png it doesn't matter if you have a different opinion than me, the point is you're stating i have a different opinion than i actually do https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/LB7E6uu.png

You were backing up Ellimist and his original position, but now you're like "Well ackshually dude I think this." Peak retardation, lmao.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
You were backing up Ellimist and his original position, but now you're like "Well ackshually dude I think this." Peak retardation, lmao.
i never commented on whether i agreed with ellimist that plagueis won this thread https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/hw_HCw.png the only thing i did was expose your strawman https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/T7Gp97c.png and then you derailed this thread into nitpicking and other nonsense https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/yJ30qRx.png

Oh so you're wrong again, I wasn't strawmanning you just misunderstood lmao. This is what turned the thread into "nitpicking and nonsense"; You not comprehending my position

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Oh so you're wrong again, I wasn't strawmanning you just misunderstood lmao. This is what turned the thread into "nitpicking and nonsense"; You not comprehending my position
nah, what turned this thread to shit was you misunderstanding me, not the reverse https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png

**** you.

Probably Caedus. He's got a similar tanky-ness to him, largely due to his physiology and his ability to retask biological systems. On top of that, he's even more of a physical monster; no less fast, and definitely stronger. Sure, he's not as consummately skilled or varied in his tactics as Jacen, but he's definitely got a solid enough base mastery to keep up with opponents on the Palpatine-tier by his peak.

Regardless, Plagueis' power isn't in his ability to weild a lightsaber anyway, that's more of a defensive practice if anything by his peak. The main advantage Plagueis has over Caedus is his sheer power and knowledge of the dark side; I imagine he would attempt to fight in a similar fashion to Talzin or Vitiate. Then again, this is a strong point for Jacen too; he's got high-end Skywalker tier power, and a pretty diverse knowledge of the Force in his own right.

Could go either way, to be honest, but my money's on Plagueis if he can really go toe to toe with TPM Palpatine like Luceno says.

Caedus murders him in sabers, beats him in a good fight in all out.