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So, this is not a conventional Versus fight (Darhk would win that pretty easily IMO). This is about which magical powerset people think is better overall.

Now, I am sure a lot of people will say Darhk, based off of initial gut reaction. And it's true that his magical powers make him an absolute beast in a physical encounter.

However, while John's magic might not be as tailored towards physical conflict (although he does know a few useful combat-related spells), I feel that he has shown a lot more versatility in what he can do with his spells.

So, it's basically combat mage vs utility/support mage. Which would you choose and why?

Personally, I am somewhat torn. Very few people could mess with you if you were Darhk, but I could probably find a lot more everyday use for John's skill set.

Doh, made a mistake in the thread title.

Fixed the title.

To give those unfamiliar with this version of Constantine some insight into what I mean versatility, here is a decent respect thread I found:

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/9bpax1/john_constantine_cw_arrowverse/

Also found this while browsing feats for the two:

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They only listed his direct kills. If we include the Havenrock nuke, which he launched, the numbers spike to the tens of thousands.


So, one has a whole grab bag of magical spells, but the other one can force choke people via a monitor, Vader-style, like Darhk does to kill number 4.

Well, the stuff with John's soul being in peril is less to do with his magical skills and more to do with poor life choices and constantly getting dragged into magical conflicts, like Manny did to him in his solo series. This version of John is slightly less dickish than his comic counterpart traditionally is, so he often gets roped into other people's messes because he can't say no (or says no initially, only to end up helping anyway), and ends up having to pay a price.

Didnt John send that fairy godmother to hell pretty easily? Thats a hell of a Bfr (pun intended).

I think hes also created shields.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Didnt John send that fairy godmother to hell pretty easily? Thats a hell of a Bfr (pun intended).

I think hes also created shields.

He did it to the unicorn as well (though not before it got Gary's nipple), and would have done so to the shapeshifter if the team hadn't change their minds.

But yeah, I noticed, after looking in more detail, that the respect thread doesn't have some of his absolute latest feats from Legends, like the hell portal BFR, that weird golden binding leash thing he used on the fairy godmother, depowering the shapeshifter etc.

And those portals are pretty useful, yeah. Even though he has only used them against evil magical beings so far, I am willing to bet that hell portals don't discriminate much lol, so he can probably use it on others as well.

Well, wasn't really trying to change your mind. Just pointing out that the crap in John's life is more to do with just having a sucky life than anything else. The guy's life has been shit literally since the day he was born, as revealed in more detail during that bar scene where he went to try and prevent his own conception.

If you think Darhk is a better choice, that is totally fair enough. For me, personally, I could just really see myself using some of the more mundane spells John knows quite often. Like the minor tk spells (if you just need something out of reach, to open a door without getting up etc.), or the tracking spells (in case you lose something), or the direction spells (if you are lost) etc.

Regarding the whole spell cost thing though. I don't think performing general feats take that much. I think it's particular/specific events/rituals that tend to get John into those situations.

Because John isn't exactly shy about flinging magic around. Hell, he used a spell to set Mick's foot on fire pretty much purely for shits and giggles, and used another spell to unlock and open his door for Sara because he was too lazy to get off the couch. I feel like if performing general magical feats had a notable cost, he wouldn't be so casual about it.

Also, I kind of have a morbid curiosity about kill 6 in that vid. What even breaks there? You just hear a loud crunch and she collapses. Her neck snaps back, so maybe that? But then it could also be whiplash from having her back rapidly snapped... I am spending way too much thought on this.

He also dropped a fire ball on Mick's foot like outta nowhere. So there is that in terms of offensive abilities.

And he was gonna send the shapeshifter to hell even though she's not a demonic being (that's the impression I got anyway), suggesting he can send anyone there.

Well, the fact that Gary almost got pulled into one with the unicorn suggests that humans can also get dragged along.

One issue with the portal spell, as with a lot of his spells though, is that is isn't particularly quick. It takes him a couple of seconds to say the incantation and make the hand gestures required to open one of them. Any opponent with fast, ranged attacks has a solid chance of dropping him before he can finish the spell.

I feel like he'd be more effective on a team, during a fight, than solo, as he would then have partners to potentially buy him time to get off some spells without being interrupted.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, the fact that Gary almost got pulled into one with the unicorn suggests that humans can also get dragged along.

One issue with the portal spell, as with a lot of his spells though, is that is isn't particularly quick. It takes him a couple of seconds to say the incantation and make the hand gestures required to open one of them. Any opponent with fast, ranged attacks has a solid chance of dropping him before he can finish the spell.

I feel like he'd be more effective on a team, during a fight, than solo, as he would then have partners to potentially buy him time to get off some spells without being interrupted.


I'm sure it was pretty immediate with the fairy godmother. Perhaps he prepped for it beforehand?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm sure it was pretty immediate with the fairy godmother. Perhaps he prepped for it beforehand?

Well, I don't mean that it takes super long, but it did take a few seconds in both instances:

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IIRC, it took longer the first time with the unicorn, but that was probably because the spell was still new to him.

But still, a few seconds might not seem much in normal activities, but it can make a huge difference in the middle of a fight.

Edit: Though on rewatching that, I am betting that he did at least somewhat prep for the godmother, as his incantation is the shortest there. Assuming you can prep it for later release. Might just be a CW inconsistency too. It's not like that would be anything new.

Also didn't he basically tell Oliver to run from Darhk when Oli asked Constantine for help/advice in the Damien Darhk season of Arrow? Lol

Although he hadn't shown many combat abilities at that point.

Well, he did show a bit. But, again, the spell in question is not exactly quick, and he needs to do a bit of ducking and dodging in between verses before he can finish it. From around 2:38 mark:

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In comparison, Darhk can do the same with just a gesture.

Yeah its basically speed thats the main issue for John.

That little fire he threw at Micks foot was pretty instantaneous though.

Yeah, but we don't really know what the max power of that spell is yet, so it's hard to say exactly how effective it would be in a fight. I doubt he was trying to do more than annoy Mick, so probably didn't put a lot of juice into it, but we won't know until we see him use it again.

^ Oh of course.

Just thought it shows he can do some fire stuff on the fly, as I doubt he prepped for that earlier lol.

Yeah, seemed like he just saw another opportunity to troll Mick. He seems to really enjoy antagonising him.

On a random note, were there technically actually two versions of Darhk, due to time travel shenanigans?

Because he was originally born in the 18th century and was then killed in 2016 by Oliver. But then resurrected in the 19th century and then died again in 1992, when he sacrificed himself for his daughter. But, as far as I know, the main time line is still intact, so Darhk still died in 2016 (otherwise there would be no reason to resurrect him). But also died in 1992.

And there is a notable difference. Darhk originally needed to draw on that stone idol for his power and make blood sacrifices to it. After being brought back to life, he no longer had that dependency.

But this would also mean that there were two of them running around at the same time at one point, one with powers and one without. Time travel makes things really complicated.

^ I wouldnt put too much thought into it. Given the CW dont.

I mean its just funny as hell that Reverse Flash is still around. But who cares, hes still great.

Well, RF basically has time travel plot armour. Because no matter how many times he gets killed at various points, there always still needs to be one in the far future to kick off all the events that lead to Barry getting his powers, so there will always be one that can potentially pop up any time, anywhere, because of that.

^^^Good reading...

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, RF basically has time travel plot armour. Because no matter how many times he gets killed at various points, there always still needs to be one in the far future to kick off all the events that lead to Barry getting his powers, so there will always be one that can potentially pop up any time, anywhere, because of that.


Lol we literally saw him vanish twice. Once being erased from the timeline and once where he was erased from reality itself.

And the last time he showed up all the explanation we got was - I just dont die.

But yeah I get it with the alternate timeline one existing in this timeline to give Barry his powers. Very creative CW. And yet Constantine cant even kick his dad in the balls without a time paradox stopping him

That bit with Constantine made no sense in the wider context of what we've seen. If time was so good at fixing itself like that (which it never is in these shows on any other occasion), the Legends and the Time Bureau wouldn't be needed.

And regarding RF, they said in the past that the more important and big events are, the more cemented they generally are. And considering everything Barry has done (including saving the multiverse), him existing is a pretty big thing. Plus, IIRC, Thawne explained that it was tales about the Flash that were his original inspirations. So, they've actually kind of created a loop where one kind of creates the other one who kind of creates the first one again, and so forth. Hence, literal time travel plot armour.

Five, is the number of years most commonly accepted by most fans and sites that have researched the issue.
So we are basically AT, or just past (earlier this year) the time, in which Barry would have gotten his powers w.out interference.

I can't recall the details on that myself. Been a while since I have watched those episodes.

The point is though that even if it's true, RF did go back in time, did kill Barry's mom, and did accelerate the process. And then everything else mentioned happened. If RF doesn't go back in time, things can't play out the way they have in the time line we are in now. As long as this time line stays relatively stable and Barry's history doesn't change, RF has to exist in some form at some point in time, alive and well, for that to happen.

And I doubt the writers will wipe out the current time line for the purposes of giving themselves one less character to use. It makes no sense. Especially after they already did Flashpoint.

Edit: I see Riv responded to the time thing.

Of course none of that should be an issue with the new rule they just brought in out of nowhere for a cheap joke - Constantine not being able to kick his dad in the balls.

Eddie Thawne should never have been able to kill himself. And his Suicide wouldnt have been needed anyway as RF shouldnt have been capable of killing Flash.