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1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-Out

Tulak stomps in all three.

Tulak holistically stomps. Scaling from Muur helps.

It also helps Force-wise that he took a 300-meter ship down from orbit.

Tulak is in Revan tier at the least, Hord GodStomps.

I don't see any reason to give Hord an edge.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
I don't see any reason to give Hord an edge.

Originally posted by Geistalt
It also helps Force-wise that he took a 300-meter ship down from orbit.

Anymore questions?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Anymore questions? Let's start with: how does that help Hord when it's an early OCW Anakin level feat at best. If he actually did it.

Did Maul ever perform a more impressive Telekinesis feat?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Did Maul ever perform a more impressive Telekinesis feat?


Doesnt make a difference to his point. We have to powerscale as well.

E.g. Palpatine Force choking Dooku almost certainly means Yoda can, given they pretty much stalemated in a Force battle.

Go on.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Go on.

Anakin was ragdolled by someone canonically below Ventress who in turn was given an absolute beating by Savage Opress who Maul stomped.

And Anakin's ship feat is comparable to Tulak Hord's ship feat.

But I mean obviously Hord stomps...

Originally posted by HP Legend
Anakin was ragdolled by someone canonically below Ventress who in turn was given an absolute beating by Savage Opress who Maul stomped.

And Anakin's ship feat is comparable to Tulak Hord's ship feat.

But I mean obviously Hord stomps... My Respect for you has grown lately.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
My Respect for you has grown lately.


Great. Always good to know I'm respected.

Originally posted by HP Legend
Great. Always good to know I'm respected.



You're actually better than your brother :P

Originally posted by Lord GOAT
You're actually better than your brother :P

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Tulak is in Revan tier at the least, Hord GodStomps.

Which version? He's most definitely not on the same tier as Prime Revan. TBH I don't think there are many versions of Revan he could take.

Maybe he could take MW Revan but he isn't taking any version of Revan after that.

Originally posted by HP Legend
Which version? He's most definitely not on the same tier as Prime Revan. TBH I don't think there are many versions of Revan he could take.

Maybe he could take MW Revan but he isn't taking any version of Revan after that. Didn't Val state that Hord single-single-handedly destroyed two Jedi Strong Holds?

I heard he took out at least a thousand Jedi within them.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Didn't Val state that Hord single-single-handedly destroyed two Jedi Strong Holds?

I heard he took out at least a thousand Jedi within them.

Baseless hype from an incredibly biased in universe source. Here's what we do know.

Post-Nathema Vitiate canonically surpassed Tulak Hord and then grew in power for 1000 years. Then Revan Reborn gave him a fight while Vitiate was on a DS nexus.

Not seeing how Tulak is on par with any version of Revan post MW.

Originally posted by HP Legend
Baseless hype from an incredibly biased in universe source. Here's what we do know. Post-Nathema Vitiate canonically surpassed Tulak Hord and then grew in power for 1000 years. Then Revan Reborn gave him a fight while Vitiate was on a DS nexus.
Not seeing how Tulak is on par with any version of Revan post MW. How is it biased when Khem Val stated that himself?

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
How is it biased when Khem Val stated that himself?

Khem Val isn't a biased source? Dude spent the entire game talking about how great his former master was and you're telling me he's not biased.

Originally posted by Lord GOAT
You're actually better than your brother :P

Lol wut.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Lol wut.

Someone's salty.

I'm going to Godstomp you in our CAV.

LMAO.

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HORD DIES https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png

Originally posted by HP Legend
Khem Val isn't a biased source? Dude spent the entire game talking about how great his former master was and you're telling me he's not biased. Well, he was the only one who was still alive and had known Hord.

It is the best source we have.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Lol wut.

Search your feelings; you know it to be true!

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Well, he was the only one who was still alive and had known Hord.

It is the best source we have.

We also have statements which put Vitiate prior to 1000 years of growth above Hord. Still not seeing how he's impressive.

His hype is good but there is no way to verify any of it and considering he's below massively pre-prime Vitiate I can't see him beating any version of Revan post MW.

That said he's not bad by any means.

you are correct, but I like to take Val's words as Canon.

So who has Maul in the same league with Vader? Just curious.

Originally posted by HP Legend
We also have statements which put Vitiate prior to 1000 years of growth above Hord. Still not seeing how he's impressive.

His hype is good but there is no way to verify any of it and considering he's below massively pre-prime Vitiate I can't see him beating any version of Revan post MW.

That said he's not bad by any means.

Why would Khem Val lie?
Also Vitiate was really scared of the ancient Sith Lords.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
So who has Maul in the same league with Vader? Just curious.

Not me.

Originally posted by Lord GOAT
Search your feelings; you know it to be true!

He's going to get murked in our CAV.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Not me.



He's going to get murked in our CAV.

T4V. Dew it. Now.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Why would Khem Val lie?
Also Vitiate was really scared of the ancient Sith Lords.

1. I never said he would lie however he has a very bias perception of his master and somethings could have been exaggerated or the context could have been ignored. In the end it's all hype from a fallible in universe source and considering how far ahead of the Ancient Sith Vitiate actually was I wouldn't take the fact that Tulak Hord can solo armies seriously. Whatever though just my perception and there is no real way to prove Khem isn't exaggerating or whatnot.

2. First off that quote refers to them as a collective so this isn't something for Tulak to boast about in fact it's quite the opposite. If the only way Tulak can hold his own against Vitiate is with the rest of the Ancient Sith then this actually furthers my point that Vitiate is vastly more powerful than any one Ancient Sith.

Also how is Vitiate being scared of them relevant? He's insanely paranoid and is terrfied of death. This does not mean they're comparable to him.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77

He's going to get murked in our CAV.

Keep telling yourself that.

HP Legend slaying today

Hord stomps harder than Tyranus would.

Originally posted by Geistalt
HP Legend slaying today

Not really. What I suggested was that Val could have exaggerated some of the finer details of the fight and ignored some details (eg: circumstances favouring Tulak).

Originally posted by HP Legend
Not really. What I suggested was that Val could have exaggerated some of the finer details of the fight and ignored some details (eg: circumstances favouring Tulak). Oh well, no need to argue about this, but hype is always favored by me!

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Oh well, no need to argue about this, but hype is always favored by me!

Again I understand your perspective but I just don't agree with it.

Tulak Hord still has one of the most badass and expensive armor suits in SWTOR.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Tulak Hord still has one of the most badass and expensive armor suits in SWTOR. YOU DAMN KNOW HE DOES!!!

^ Cant edit, but basically feats are required to compliment statements. Cant go off statements alone, especially not fallible in-universe ones.

Bringing *down* a ship is kind of vague with respect to how impressive it is.

Pulling a ship out of the sky... is well beyond Maul. There's really no getting out of this.

Actually, there's plenty. We haven't any understanding of the circumstances in which the feat was performed. In what sense can it be compared to Maul?

We don't. But the fact that it was 'in the sky', mean's there's a high probability that it was moving - likely at a decent speed - so I doubt prep was involved. Are we going to chalk this up to 'muh' nexus now?

I'm going for the simplest explanation, and attributing Hord's success to a set of highly favourable circumstances is speculation that simply isn't pointed to. We have more reason to believe he legitimately did do it.

Obviously any favorable circumstances won't be pointed out when the pointer is a fanboy lmfao

Salt. There are no favourable circumstances that we know of. We have no reason to believe there were.

Go Racism!

Woooo!

Originally posted by HP Legend
1. I never said he would lie however he has a very bias perception of his master and somethings could have been exaggerated or the context could have been ignored. In the end it's all hype from a fallible in universe source and considering how far ahead of the Ancient Sith Vitiate actually was I wouldn't take the fact that Tulak Hord can solo armies seriously. Whatever though just my perception and there is no real way to prove Khem isn't exaggerating or whatnot.

2. First off that quote refers to them as a collective so this isn't something for Tulak to boast about in fact it's quite the opposite. If the only way Tulak can hold his own against Vitiate is with the rest of the Ancient Sith then this actually furthers my point that Vitiate is vastly more powerful than any one Ancient Sith.

Also how is Vitiate being scared of them relevant? He's insanely paranoid and is terrfied of death. This does not mean they're comparable to him.

1. Why would he lie or overexaggerate Tulak's performances? There was no reason for that. As a matter of fact, Khem served Tulak because of his "superior" strength in The Force.


2. Because the writer was counting them all at the same time. Or do you want the writer to list every Sith Lord's name in particular? Do you know how much it would take to do so?

You are looking for straws to diminish the ancient Sith's performances.

Kill him Nadd!

KILL HIM!!!

Why are prople doubting Hord could pull this off when a newbie Exar Kun could do the same?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Why are prople doubting Hord could pull this off when a newbie Exar Kun could do the same? Becasue They overate Maul.

could tulak defeat marko? hmm.

interesting thought. their fight would destroy several cities i think.

truly two of the most powerful.

maul dies.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Doesnt make a difference to his point. We have to powerscale as well.

E.g. Palpatine Force choking Dooku almost certainly means Yoda can, given they pretty much stalemated in a Force battle.

Correction: Yoda's pod went unchallenged, causing Sidious visible fright, and the DBZ power battle was largely in Yoda's favor, because Yoda caught the blast at a disadvantage and with little footing, reversed it, and it blew up in Sids' lap. Yoda is KO'd for lack of a handrail.

Yoda > Sids

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Kill him Nadd!

KILL HIM!!!

The writers of The Old Republic just do not give any penny of what Lucas' timeline/universe states.

how can we not be sure tulak didnt flow walk across the ages testing his mettle against the champions of each era?

i think tulak would give anyone a run for their money he is very strong. i hope disney expands upon tulak hord he is a cool character.

Originally posted by Trocity
how can we not be sure tulak didnt flow walk across the ages testing his mettle against the champions of each era?

i think tulak would give anyone a run for their money he is very strong. i hope disney expands upon tulak hord he is a cool character.

quan waiting for the moment when Tulak stomps Sidious in the Disney-canon.

I we look at written down feats, Hord wins fairly easily.

But if Ragnos actually had some feats then I bet we may make a different assumption...

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
I we look at written down feats, Hord wins fairly easily.

But if Ragnos actually had some feats then I bet we may make a different assumption...

I might write a story about him.

1. Hord lived centuries before the Golden Age of the Sith, shortly after Ajunta Pall's time.
2. Aloysius Kallig was his rival, not his apprentice.
3. It's heavily suggested in a discussion with Talos Drellik that the Tomb of Naga Sadow was built on top of Khem's stasis chamber.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. Why would he lie or overexaggerate Tulak's performances? There was no reason for that. As a matter of fact, Khem served Tulak because of his "superior" strength in The Force.


2. Because the writer was counting them all at the same time. Or do you want the writer to list every Sith Lord's name in particular? Do you know how much it would take to do so?

You are looking for straws to diminish the ancient Sith's performances.

1. A) Khem literally spends the entire game praising his master and saying The Sith Inquisitor will never live up to his legacy. Kinda comes across as bias.

1. B) It's also worth noting Khem spent ages in stasis and when he came out he got beaten by the SI. Now I know Khem's fighting prowess probably decreased in stasis but I don't see a way Khem's power could have decreased to the point where he was below Nox (who was still training) when before he was comparable to his master who could solo entire armies. Add in the fact that he remains the SI's slave for the whole game pretty much shows that even when recovered Khem was below the SI. That should suggest that Khem wasn't even capable of lasting a few seconds against an army.

Now let's look at the below quote:



As I've proven above Khem Val was not able to last a few seconds against an army. Now let's put this into context. Seen as the above quote mentions both Khem and Tulak's victory against the above Jedi army was a combined effort this suggests at least some parity between Khem and Tulak (and as a reminder Khem is incapable of standing against an army for a few seconds). Add in the fact that if Tulak is as powerful as everyone says he is then why TF does he need Khem? Khem would likely be a hinderance for him as he'd have to protect Khem from dying in a few seconds whereas without Khem he could literally devote more energy to fighting his opponents. Everything suggests Khem is comparable to Tulak which doesn't bode well for Tulak at all.

Khem cannot solo armies and he's comparable to Tulak. In fact I just checked Ant's RT and there isn't a single quote which suggests Tulak can solo armies. The best I found was Khem saying Tulak broke a seige but no numbers were given and it wasn't mentioned to be an army. I'm actually questioning now where it says Tulak can solo an army by now.

Please enlighten me.

Also as I pointed out it makes zero sense for Tulak to be capable of accomplishing such a feat considering he was surpassed by massively pre prime Valkorion.

2. I was tired when I wrote that. Just realised how stupid that was.

However my point below that still stands. Since when does Vitiaate being scared of someone mean they're on the same level as him. He was incredibly paranoid and terrifed of death.


@RealistRacism: See above points for Tulak not being able to slaughter armies.

Originally posted by HP Legend
1. A) Khem literally spends the entire game praising his master and saying The Sith Inquisitor will never live up to his legacy. Kinda comes across as bias.

1. B) It's also worth noting Khem spent ages in stasis and when he came out he got beaten by the SI. Now I know Khem's fighting prowess probably decreased in stasis but I don't see a way Khem's power could have decreased to the point where he was below Nox (who was still training) when before he was comparable to his master who could solo entire armies. Add in the fact that he remains the SI's slave for the whole game pretty much shows that even when recovered Khem was below the SI. That should suggest that Khem wasn't even capable of lasting a few seconds against an army.

Now let's look at the below quote:



As I've proven above Khem Val was not able to last a few seconds against an army. Now let's put this into context. Seen as the above quote mentions both Khem and Tulak's victory against the above Jedi army was a combined effort this suggests at least some parity between Khem and Tulak (and as a reminder Khem is incapable of standing against an army for a few seconds). Add in the fact that if Tulak is as powerful as everyone says he is then why TF does he need Khem? Khem would likely be a hinderance for him as he'd have to protect Khem from dying in a few seconds whereas without Khem he could literally devote more energy to fighting his opponents. Everything suggests Khem is comparable to Tulak which doesn't bode well for Tulak at all.

Khem cannot solo armies and he's comparable to Tulak. In fact I just checked Ant's RT and there isn't a single quote which suggests Tulak can solo armies. The best I found was Khem saying Tulak broke a seige but no numbers were given and it wasn't mentioned to be an army. I'm actually questioning now where it says Tulak can solo an army by now.

Please enlighten me.

Also as I pointed out it makes zero sense for Tulak to be capable of accomplishing such a feat considering he was surpassed by massively pre prime Valkorion.

2. I was tired when I wrote that. Just realised how stupid that was.

However my point below that still stands. Since when does Vitiaate being scared of someone mean they're on the same level as him. He was incredibly paranoid and terrifed of death.


@RealistRacism: See above points for Tulak not being able to slaughter armies.

This is like saying why does Palpatine need Vader if he is stronger.

There's no reason to think Tulak Hord can't pull that feat off. Nor any reason to suggest he's buffing up the feat.

Originally posted by Freedumb Nadd
This is like saying why does Palpatine need Vader if he is stronger.

So you managed to address one point from entire post worth of them. Concession accepted I guess.

As for your point it's really a terrible comparison. Vader paticipated in battles because Palpatine wanted to devote his efforts to other things. Meanwhile Tulak particpated in battles and was known as a master combatant. It really makes zero sense for Tulak to take Khem with him into battle if Khem is a a lot weaker than him as Khem would just get in his way and he'd have to devote more energy to protecting Khem. If Tulak could go in and solo armies then why did he bring Khem with him who'd die in seconds to an army. Not to mention the plethora of other evidence which suggests Khem isn't that far off his master.

Using a flawed comparison isn't evidence. Try again. You really are worthy of your name Freedumb Nadd.

Originally posted by HP Legend
So you managed to address one point from entire post worth of them. Concession accepted I guess.

As for your point it's really a terrible comparison. Vader paticipated in battles because Palpatine wanted to devote his efforts to other things. Meanwhile Tulak particpated in battles and was known as a master combatant. It really makes zero sense for Tulak to take Khem with him into battle if Khem is a a lot weaker than him as Khem would just get in his way and he'd have to devote more energy to protecting Khem. If Tulak could go in and solo armies then why did he bring Khem with him who'd die in seconds to an army. Not to mention the plethora of other evidence which suggests Khem isn't that far off his master.

Using a flawed comparison isn't evidence. Try again. You really are worthy of your name Freedumb Nadd.

Tulak chose him because he was strong, you arrogant blind shmuck.

Who said he was weak? I did not. That is why he chose him as guardian and trapped him in Sadow's tomb on Korriban in stasis - because he was wounded in battles. And obviously Tulak was not going to let him die.
You say as if facing so many Jedi and get wounded is a failure. Did you ever see Sidious taking on countless Jedi at once, and survive? I did not.

As a matter of fact, Cela backstabbed him because he was obviously afraid of facing him in direct combat.

Do you think he gained the respect and fear in the Sith Order by being a nobody who could be owned by an averager like Maul - compared to Star Wars powerhouses?

In the ancient times only the most powerful Sith Lords survived and they only died via backstabbing. During those times no one cared how cunning you are and your pitiful boasts. In those times all that mattered was direct combat and Force strength. Those were the prequisites of being a Sith Lord. Not like in Bane's times where you need to lie and get into politics and manipulate people to do your bidding and cause corruption from within to destroy an organization.

I'll get back to this later.

Probably putting some Sheevite Maul accolades from Azronger. I am sure.

LMAO. I'm not even part of the Sheevites.

You don't become a Sheevite. You are born a Sheevite.

If I was born a Sheevite then why TF did Az not induct me when I asked him to?

Apparently you have grown powerful enough to challenge him.

Originally posted by Geistalt
1. Hord lived centuries before the Golden Age of the Sith, shortly after Ajunta Pall's time.
2. Aloysius Kallig was his rival, not his apprentice.
3. It's heavily suggested in a discussion with Talos Drellik that the Tomb of Naga Sadow was built on top of Khem's stasis chamber.

1. That's more or less what I'm suggesting.

2. He was both.

3. This is logical, but not explicit.

My entire spiel is about Tulak Hord being a terribly handled new character to the mythos. It's actually apparent in retrospect that KotOR has a lot of problems with established EU canon, considering the Great Sith War predates the first game by perhaps 40 years, and yet has PT style aesthetics all throughout, the use of 'Darth' as a Sith title, modern looking lightsabers, a relative lack of Jedi battle armor, PT era morals and rules for the Jedi, and so on. It's a bit of a side tangent to go that far, but the point remains: Tulak Hord is a canon mess.

Gonna need a citation for Kallig being Tulak's apprentice.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. That's more or less what I'm suggesting.

2. He was both.

3. This is logical, but not explicit.

My entire spiel is about Tulak Hord being a terribly handled new character to the mythos. It's actually apparent in retrospect that KotOR has a lot of problems with established EU canon, considering the Great Sith War predates the first game by perhaps 40 years, and yet has PT style aesthetics all throughout, the use of 'Darth' as a Sith title, modern looking lightsabers, a relative lack of Jedi battle armor, PT era morals and rules for the Jedi, and so on. It's a bit of a side tangent to go that far, but the point remains: Tulak Hord is a canon mess.

This has nothing to do with Tulak Hord's Force mastery and lightsabre mastery.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Gonna need a citation for Kallig being Tulak's apprentice.

He was not really an apprentice. After he defeated Khem Val, Tulak took him as a fifth wheel.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
He was not really an apprentice. After he defeated Khem Val, Tulak took him as a fifth wheel. When did Kallig defeat Val?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. That's more or less what I'm suggesting.

2. He was both.

3. This is logical, but not explicit.

My entire spiel is about Tulak Hord being a terribly handled new character to the mythos. It's actually apparent in retrospect that KotOR has a lot of problems with established EU canon, considering the Great Sith War predates the first game by perhaps 40 years, and yet has PT style aesthetics all throughout, the use of 'Darth' as a Sith title, modern looking lightsabers, a relative lack of Jedi battle armor, PT era morals and rules for the Jedi, and so on. It's a bit of a side tangent to go that far, but the point remains: Tulak Hord is a canon mess. Kallig was his ShadowHand, not an apprentice.