Originally posted by The Ellimist
You know, I tried to open this conversation with kindness - but since you initiated the rudeness, I guess I might as well just point out how unimaginably awful your reply was. Let's do a few exhibitions:
Fail.
Not only did I never say that the adepts didn't TP anyone, I literally said the exact opposite in every single reply I've made on the matter, since it seemed to requiring repeating. You haven't responded to the core of my point on this at all, or even hinted that you know what I'm talking about.
The question is over the extent of their contribution and their necessity, which I argued based on the majority of the sources at hand was small.
Based on what?
I suspect that engaging in an epistemological discussion with you isn't the most fruitful endeavor, but let's try:
With all of these feats, from Byss to the Lusankya, it's a question of your interpretation vs. mine of the same evidence. Granted, I think mine fit the evidence better - but if there's any reasonable ambiguity, and if we're trying to reconcile sources rather than toss them away, if sources say Sidious > Nihilus, the reasonable solution is to preference reasonable interpretations that fit these statements rather than ones that require us to toss evidence away. That would shift the burden of proof onto you to justify your lowballing. You first reconcile, and then dismiss.
You confused and twisted your own argument. Ordering their execution doesn't solve the problem at all because of the point I made earlier about information traveling extremely quickly, and probably leaving Coruscant within seconds of witnesses seeing a massive super star destroyer lowering from the sky. The only reasonable method is to preemptively stop witnesses. Your proposal, that Palpatine ordered mass relocations, isn't mentioned in any of the source material, and indeed wouldn't solve the problem since nobody could find records of these relocations either. You'd also have to essentially be relocating within like a several thousand kilometer radius, and even that wouldn't be enough for anyone who could observe it through extra-biological means (aka people scanning things on ships). So you just invented an alternative explanation that neither works nor has any textual support for the sole purpose of lowballing.
You're misreading the source. That's not saying that he took the witnesses into the Lusankya to get brainwashed, lol. And it still wouldn't solve the issue of information traveling really quickly.
No, The New Essential Guide to Characters is in-universe.
So when I try to explain to you why the two variables are tradeoffs, and it's obvious one doesn't have infinitely more potency than the other, as if taking on 1 super battle droid is harder than taking on 100 quintillion b1 battle droids, you just respond by saying "nuh uh! Quality > quantity!"
This is why I'm probably not going to engage with you further on this subject - your replies don't actually engage with anything the other person was saying.
This reply is literally incoherent. What context is being misinterpreted? All I did was point out that you didn't understand the difference between character doing X feat and character's limits being X feat. There was no context there - it was just an explanation of basic logic.
This reply literally doesn't address what it was responding to in even the most superficially possible manner, which perhaps isn't surprising given that your argument here was one of the worst of all time. The one point you tried to respond to was the catastrophic environmental effects part. You utterly failed:
1. As pointed out before, if the environmental effects don't matter then it's actually EASIER to lower it quickly than slowly, unless if you're lowering it so quickly as to be accelerating it significantly beyond 1g, but there's zero evidence Nihilus can do that, so why does it matter?
2. Let's talk about the environmental effects that lowering the Lusankya so quickly nobody could see it would have. If it takes the Lusankya 30 seconds to go from orbit to ground, that would still be witnessed potentially by millions of people, since a significant fraction of those in the visibility radius would happen to be gazing in that general direction at that time. But let's use that anyway:
If the Lusankya is lowered from about 100 km and comes to a standstill on hitting surface level, that would require Palpatine to carefully accelerate the Lusankya at 450 m/s^2 for 15 seconds and then decelerate it at the same rate for another 15 seconds, thus hitting a maximum speed of 6.75 kilometers every second . Then Palpatine would have had to:
1. Shield all of the insane sound, shockwaves, etc. coming from a massive ship multiple times the size of Mount Everest coming down orders of magnitude faster than any RL ship.
2. Shield the other effects of about ~10^20 joules of kinetic energy, aka about a thousand times more energy than the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated.
And this is the conservative estimate. I mean, give me a break.
Once again, you don't even try to provide a coherent response to the sentences you were quoting. The entire idea behind this specific point was that "yet you do when it comes about proving his superiority" is an unfounded accusation by you. This is the third time I've explained this to you, and you still haven't responded to me either by:
1. Showing me an example of this alleged hypocrisy, or, preferably,
2. Justifying the validity of your in-universe source.
Instead, you just repeat your original accusation. Yes, we get what your point was, now actually defend it.
Then why bother draining them?
This:
https://i.imgur.com/pVHuRwG.png
Courtesy of Tempest. And that's not a "no-limits fallacy".
Holy cringe, this is cringe. The point isn't that he was a nexus, the point is that the nexus was more powerful than ever, and thus stronger than Byss, which was described as the "darkest place in the galaxy", aka stronger than Korriban, DK, etc.
This reply literally makes no sense whatsoever. What does Sidious becoming a sith spirit have to do with what we were talking about? What does a vague qualitative prose like "embodiment of the dark side" have to do with the specific notation that the Eclipse > Byss?
OK, I stopped here. This was just too much ridiculousness to handle. I really want to try to be nice to everyone, but it becomes hard when:
1. You start throwing out snarky jabs (which I'm not bothered by - but they provide the basis for reciprocation)
2. Your series of rebuttals have been among the worst performances in KMC history.
Unless if you condense your reply to something less tedious or otherwise provide something that is of at least passable quality, I'm bowing out.
I really have nothing to counter here - because once again - you are going off-topic.
And I will put it in smaller format
-Sidious and his Dark Side Adepts enslaved Byss mutually. Checked.
-Sidious purposefully targeted the ignorants and the weak-willed because they were more susceptible to his influence. Checked
-so I went back and I checked the guide. And yes, you were right. As I said: I am not a guy who is 100% spending his time on geek stuff and debates. So, I concede.
-from other sources - all we have is that Palpatine buried the Lusankya using The Force(ergo: Fact Files). But we do not know how much it took him. Given that in the X-Wing novel it says that Palpatine could have ordered the eye-witnesses execution to hide the fact that something wrong was transpiring on Coruscant. That means the process of burial was slow and not instant. And Wedge did not want to believe it and instead he wished to think Palpatine somehow mind-wiped them.
