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Originally posted by Putinbot1
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Well, there are some issues with modern human males. We've talked about this before.

In the past, rape among early humans (and probably ancestral hominids) was so common that it shaped our evolution and we have those markers still there in modern humans. It should be noted that rape is a normal human behavior, not an exceptional one. It had to be common enough to shape evolution in the way it did.

And we are still exploring just the rape portion of human biology/evolution. With "forced sex" being an inevitable outcome when female and parental choice excludes a large portion of the young fertile male population.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178913000578

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0162309583900274

If we stop viewing humans on these high pedastals and analyze them like we do every other animal, it becomes easier to understand what is going on. But the difference between humans and other species is the depth of our intelligence and depth of our empathy. We cannot be lumped in with drakes that rape hens because "it's normal." Because we are intelligent enough and possess so much empathy that we understand it is harmful.

But at the same time, it's important to understand what is wrong with these rapey, hateful, fertile, young, human males. They are just being animals fulfilling their genetic programming but they are living in a world where they cannot fulfill their programming. 20,000 years ago, these human males would just rape. Being unable to get a mate from the female or parental choice, the outcome would have been rape.

Lastly, the writers of "A Natural History of Rape" also caution that ignoring the biology of whys of rape will hinder our ability to prevent it from happening. You must understand why males rape females in order to come up with effective methods to stop it.

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=xH6v-nB6EegC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=humans+evolved+from+rape&ots=Q4JQlElC9e&sig=6ELLbjQnvCullYVPIymehrhODZs#v=onepage&q=humans%20evolved%20from%20rape&f=false


Anyway, I said all that to say this: when I see young men who are incels, violent against women, I just see them as troglodytes or early hominids. They are for sure pathetic and act more like devolved primates than humans.

This is the difference I see their socialization less evolved rather than their biology. They have no emotional control not due to faulty synapses but due to faulty logic. Unfortunately the internet ensembles this faulty logic to propagate through other young Incels like a virus.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
This is the difference I see their socialization less evolved rather than their biology.

I disagree and I think you'll agree with me after I explain why.

If you say that their socialization is less evolved, that makes them victims and paints society as a reason for their failure to produce a functional adult male. It removes the responsibility from the individual and places it on society.

Is society failing to make it clear that rape and violence against women is bad? Not at all.

The men are the problem, not society. They are not victims. They are the predators.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree and I think you'll agree with me after I explain why.

If you say that their socialization is less evolved, that makes them victims and paints society as a reason for their failure to produce a functional adult male. It removes the responsibility from the individual and places it on society.

Is society failing to make it clear that rape and violence against women is bad? Not at all.

The men are the problem, not society. They are not victims. They are the predators. I think they are both victims and predators, they are victims of something that stymied their personal growth, they didn't learn how to interact and it was never addressed. They are intelligent enough to build a narrative around their failures, and become these problem individuals. In some cases. A one size fits all definition probably doesn't exist, whereas a sliding scale with victim, fantasist and predators traits does. This also feeds into different degrees of personality and nervous disorders.

Undoubtedly some are ripe for exploitation also.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I think they are both victims and predators, they are victims of something that stymied their personal growth, they didn't learn how to interact and it was never addressed. They are intelligent enough to build a narrative around their failures, and become these problem individuals. In some cases. A one size fits all definition probably doesn't exist, whereas a sliding scale with victim, fantasist and predators traits does. This also feeds into different degrees of personality and nervous disorders.

Undoubtedly some are ripe for exploitation also.

Okay, that's fair of you. You have a bigger heart than I do as I am not as forgiving of putting the blame, of an adult's problems, on society.

Every person is both a sinner and a victim, and the two are related IMO.

When faced with vulnerability to tragedy, suffering, malevolence, it's difficult to not be filled with arrogance and resentment as a countermeasure. All evil comes from a place of profound inner suffering. But it's a choice how you respond to it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, that's fair of you. You have a bigger heart than I do as I am not as forgiving of putting the blame, of an adult's problems, on society. There are adults and there are adults, half the population is below average.

DDM brings a very interesting point about human evolution that could explain why social behavior is heavily marked by conceiving courting as different ways of "minimizing rape" -ranging from reasonable to downright stupid-. I found it weird that women were always assumed to "resist" the attention of men, but if biology proves the prevalence of rape, you can make more sense of it.

If only these incels would just f**l/rape each other. Would maybe lesson these murderous attacks against women

Originally posted by Putinbot1
There are adults and there are adults, half the population is below average.

Put that statement in context of a normal distribution. Meaning there is very little functional difference between 90 and 110 with a comfortable majority falling between those two.

In other words, your statement, while quite clever, when presented in context of a population distribution, is functionally meaningless unless you plan to codify different sets of rules of behavior for people are various cognitive tiers (or lattices)* despite the fact that there are very small marginal differences in measures of cognition between almost all humans.

*Hey, that could work. Make each lattice a specific sigma value and give each lattice a nickname.

Originally posted by Robtard
If only these incels would just f**l/rape each other. Would maybe lesson these murderous attacks against women

You mean, if only all people could choose to be gay.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
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Does that include KMC?

Young men (especially in their teens and early twenties) seem to have this rule they live by where sharing their feelings with anyone is a no-no. They keep everything to themselves at the risk of being seen as "weak" by other males, genuinely believing we live a hegemonic masculine world.

Society needs to do a better of job of communicating with these individuals to get them to leave their "bubbles".

Teens today are more socially isolated than ever.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, that's fair of you. You have a bigger heart than I do as I am not as forgiving of putting the blame, of an adult's problems, on society.
Well fundamentally, I think it's correct to say that all evil to some extent is the result of a problem in need of redress, but that a person with agency makes the worst out of it in how they handle it.

By pointing out that there is an underlying problem in need of redress behind it however, it's not necessarily to take agency from the people themselves but instead to pursue a solution that is to everyone's benefit.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Does that include KMC? to a point, yes.

....KMC has a "Point"???!

Originally posted by Chuck_Schumer
Young men (especially in their teens and early twenties) seem to have this rule they live by where sharing their feelings with anyone is a no-no. They keep everything to themselves at the risk of being seen as "weak" by other males, genuinely believing we live a hegemonic masculine world.

Society needs to do a better of job of communicating with these individuals to get them to leave their "bubbles".

Teens today are more socially isolated than ever. I think they communicate their feelings online to each other and therein lies part of the problem.

Yes. Discard your Feelings. Become One with the NPC-ness of the Loony Lefty.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, that's fair of you. You have a bigger heart than I do as I am not as forgiving of putting the blame, of an adult's problems, on society. Clearly, lots of genetic predispositions exist we overcome. Epigenetic for example shows we may even provide predispositions in an almost Lamarck like evolutionary manner. Usually cognition overcomes genes in the socialised in my opinion and like most statements of that kind it is a no more or less viable opinion tban any other. My first degree is Molecular biology and my second Genetics. Genetics in many ways is the most option filled Science outside psychology, particularly in relation to effects of gene expression on cognition. It used to interest me, now I really just shake my head and move on. It's one of my problems with the Jordan Peterson's of this world.