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well, is she?

No /thread

No. She doesn't even has any flight feat which suggests she is lightspeed fast.

If the writer wants her to be, she will be.

Yep, writers can make light batsh_t slow

She's not.

Just light bullets are a joke in comics since street lvl heroes are constantly dodging them, laser are also jobbed out. In reality WW isn't but there's plenty of examples of her blocking laser with ease.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yep, writers can make light batsh_t slow slower than the densest light transmitting medium known to physics.

Somebody post the Shattered God.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Somebody post the Shattered God.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
If the writer wants her to be, she will be. Yes. Only fanboys would argue otherwise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes. Only fanboys would argue otherwise.

Does Thanos have faster than light reactions though?

Originally posted by Bentley
Does Thanos have faster than light reactions though? Far faster reactions in canon comics, sure. He is the GOAT.

Originally posted by ghostman
well, is she?

No and she doesn't need to be. Ftl is overrated

She's the fastest Herald in DC but her flight speed isn't on the big leagues level. An amped Superman that was powered by infinite energy couldnt touch Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by carver9
She's the fastest Herald in DC but her flight speed isn't on the big leagues level. An amped Superman that was powered by infinite energy couldnt touch Wonder Woman.


https://xtremepyrosonic.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/15307424029791.jpg

Too bad Dilido killed off Wally...AGAIN!

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Too bad Dilido killed off Wally...AGAIN!

Barry is still around.

Originally posted by abhilegend


https://xtremepyrosonic.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/15307424029791.jpg

I mention on panel evidence of Superman himself admitting he can't touch her and you post this scan? Gotcha.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Barry is still around.

Give Dan Dildo time...His Stupidity and Hatered will soon kill off Current DC Comics.

IT WILL ALL DIE FASTER THEN LIGHT!

Originally posted by carver9
I mention on panel evidence of Superman himself admitting he can't touch her and you post this scan? Gotcha.
Where did he admit that carter?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did he admit that carter?

Stop avoiding me Diana and fight me...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-1.jpg

He miss again and she lands a solid lick... he finally tags her with heat vision...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-2.jpg

Here's the important part. He tries to hit her again and fails. Get tied up and lose afterwards...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-3.jpg

Pretty got darn clear she had the speed advantage here and he was powered by enough energy to hurt an supposedly universal level being once Supes unleashed it.

Yeah that sounds like a bunch of Lefty FemiNazi BS reasoning to me.

More like Supes Aint Allowed to To Touch Wondie...

@Squall...

You dont know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
Stop avoiding me Diana and fight me...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-1.jpg

He miss again and she lands a solid lick... he finally tags her with heat vision...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-2.jpg

Here's the important part. He tries to hit her again and fails. Get tied up and lose afterwards...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-3.jpg

Pretty got darn clear she had the speed advantage here and he was powered by enough energy to hurt an supposedly universal level being once Supes unleashed it.
Yeah, that's because Superman was out of his mind and not thinking clearly.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YUVrzJL1yQc/W86f16Y75oI/AAAAAAAAGIQ/o0jj1rkDppIc0f8xP-RykDvnZUG0rqYuwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg

Superman didn't even knew who he was. Great stuff carter.

using the old " Not really Him" Logic.. Noice.

Which is more recent?

She caught the Flash multiple times, and reacted to FTL speed characters

Wonder Woman is faster than light speed

So has Batman. Using comparison feats like that doesn't always work.

Catwoman has caught three Flashes.

Street levelers vs someone who constantly fights Kryptonians. Hmm...

Having a Blockbuster Movie always ups the Characters Power Settings.

Batman has consistent showings of reacting to speedsters.

To Flash, WW, Zoom, Superman... And that's just n52. Outreacts Hal's autoshields in his first appearance.

You really don't want to go down this route, lol.

Still can't believe Shattered God hasn't been posted yet.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
She caught the Flash multiple times, and reacted to FTL speed characters

Wonder Woman is faster than light speed

She has herself stated that Flash at not even full speed is a blur for her and she aim blocks him.

https://i.postimg.cc/1gCzXBHT/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/sQMghWH2/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/XGt7cvtk/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/NLr0G1rJ/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/xcD1Xcv0/image.jpg

Superman straight up raced and caught the same Flash at full speed.

https://i.postimg.cc/ygj2spyg/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/8fC95dZy/image.jpg

The difference is, Wonder Woman actually beats the crap out of those speedsters. Powergirl and Faora have to bend knee to her, Batman constantly physically loses to Harley Quinn. How many times has WW fought Superman? She has given him a hard time almost every time they fight.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Still can't believe Shattered God hasn't been posted yet.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that's because Superman was out of his mind and not thinking clearly.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YUVrzJL1yQc/W86f16Y75oI/AAAAAAAAGIQ/o0jj1rkDppIc0f8xP-RykDvnZUG0rqYuwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg

Superman didn't even knew who he was. Great stuff carter.

I said she out reacted Superman. That was Superman. I said he had infinite energy flowing through him and he did. I dont get what you're trying to say here. He was well aware of his abilities which is the reason he froze an entire corrupted city.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
The difference is, Wonder Woman actually beats the crap out of those speedsters. Powergirl and Faora have to bend knee to her, Batman constantly physically loses to Harley Quinn. How many times has WW fought Superman? She has given him a hard time almost every time they fight.

And so has Batman, almost every time he fights Superman .

Hell, the times WW has fought Bats, he's done pretty well.

None of them have outreacted Batman. So based on your logic, he's FTL too?

Originally posted by carver9
I said she out reacted Superman. That was Superman. I said he had infinite energy flowing through him and he did. I dont get what you're trying to say here. He was well aware of his abilities which is the reason he froze an entire corrupted city.
She did no such thing because he wasn't aware of who he was or what his capabilities were.

You're always good for a laugh carter.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And so has Batman, almost every time he fights Superman .

Hell, the times WW has fought Bats, he's done pretty well.

None of them have outreacted Batman. So based on your logic, he's FTL too? Prove it

You mean when she was severely holding back or in training session? Wonder Woman easily sliced bloodlusted Superman's neck with her tiara, he was incapacitated and bleeding

Show a not-holding-back Wonder Woman fighting Batman

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Prove it

You mean when she was severely holding back or in training session? Wonder Woman easily sliced bloodlusted Superman's neck with her tiara, he was incapacitated and bleeding

Show a not-holding-back Wonder Woman fighting Batman
Superman wasn't incapacitated, she broke the mind control and he wasn't fighting anymore.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman wasn't incapacitated, she broke the mind control and he wasn't fighting anymore. Oh, so he wasn't mind controlled anymore, but she still says "This ends here, this ends now. Release him."

https://tinyurl.com/y7m3pvoh

If he wasn't incapacitated, than why did he stop fighting and kept holding his neck?

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Prove it

You mean when she was severely holding back or in training session? Wonder Woman easily sliced bloodlusted Superman's neck with her tiara, he was incapacitated and bleeding

Show a not-holding-back Wonder Woman fighting Batman

Oh, hehe.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reposting now we have lost the stretch,

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111336/4643740-6917388091-5c64b.jpg

Yeah, but she's mind controlled, so we should discount that!

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111336/4643743-0014285371-5c64b.jpg

Remember, even with her bracelets on, she was stronger and faster:

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/god-of-war-wonder-woman-vs-the-cheetah-new-52-6.png

So a bloodlusted, out for the kill, WW with GoW upgrade, was unable to kill or even KO an injured, sick Batman, without his Batsuit, even with a suckerpunch.

Beastly showing. DC showing my boy Bats much love.

sooo..... no ftl ww feats? lol wonder woman fans cant talk about her without superman.

Shattered God

Originally posted by carver9
She's the fastest Herald in DC but her flight speed isn't on the big leagues level. An amped Superman that was powered by infinite energy couldnt touch Wonder Woman.

In Wonder Woman 27, volume 3, she flew so fast she ended up in universe 46. The Flash of that world said she must have traveled 7x the speed of light. She fainted afterwards, but it still counts.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Shattered God

I know you're one of his fans but why do you insist on trying to make this thread about Thor?

Originally posted by Bentley
I know you're one of his fans but why do you insist on trying to make this thread about Thor?






Lawlss... my keyboard just got splashed by day old iced coffee.

Why are you hanging around day old iced coffee? That has as much chance of getting revitalized as Thor does.

Learn to cut the cord

It was a venti Starbucks. Cost me a pretty penny so I'm gonna squeeze the life out of it. but thanks to this poor excuse for a Kang fan, a few ounces just went down the drain.

No.

Yes.

Maybe.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, hehe.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reposting now we have lost the stretch,

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111336/4643740-6917388091-5c64b.jpg

Yeah, but she's mind controlled, so we should discount that!

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111336/4643743-0014285371-5c64b.jpg

Remember, even with her bracelets on, she was stronger and faster:

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/god-of-war-wonder-woman-vs-the-cheetah-new-52-6.png

So a bloodlusted, out for the kill, WW with GoW upgrade, was unable to kill or even KO an injured, sick Batman, without his Batsuit, even with a suckerpunch.

Beastly showing. DC showing my boy Bats much love. A complete outlier, and not even remotely consistent. Try again. I'm talking about Diana's consistent Kryptonian level speed and reflexes, all you're giving me is world renowned PIS.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
A complete outlier, and not even remotely consistent. Try again. I'm talking about Diana's consistent Kryptonian level speed and reflexes, all you're giving me is world renowned PIS.

Wait...

You asked me to give you an example.

I did.

Now you're asking for more??? Lol. Moving the goalposts much??

My point remains. In comics, writers ignore power levels to write fights.

Therefore you cannot just use fights to assume power levels.

How about YOU prove something for once.

Show n52 WW, not holding back, fighting n52 Batman. You say my showing is an outlier, prove it. Show me in the n52, how WW speedblitzed Batman.

What the hell is this thread even here for. Diana can't even outpace bullets.....

Originally posted by Senor Cage
In Wonder Woman 27, volume 3, she flew so fast she ended up in universe 46. The Flash of that world said she must have traveled 7x the speed of light. She fainted afterwards, but it still counts.
What the? When did this happen?

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Oh, so he wasn't mind controlled anymore, but she still says "This ends here, this ends now. Release him."

https://tinyurl.com/y7m3pvoh

If he wasn't incapacitated, than why did he stop fighting and kept holding his neck?
Because it was cut? He stopped fighting because the mindcontrol was broken but he was still talking abd standing. Not incapacitated by a long shot.

travel speed no. reflexive/combat-style speed i'd say yes. her speed feat vs amazo was impressive. she was shown to be faster than kara recently wasn't she or am i not recalling that right? aside from a flash, can anyone recall a time she was overwhelmed or just flat out not fast enough to battle someone...? i'm not sure this is all that complicated imo.... /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
travel speed no. reflexive/combat-style speed i'd say yes. her speed feat vs amazo was impressive. she was shown to be faster than kara recently wasn't she or am i not recalling that right? aside from a flash, can anyone recall a time she was overwhelmed or just flat out not fast enough to battle someone...? i'm not sure this is all that complicated imo.... /shrug
She was unable to fight Mayfly with her superspeed. And Bizarro.

Originally posted by leonidas
travel speed no. reflexive/combat-style speed i'd say yes. her speed feat vs amazo was impressive. she was shown to be faster than kara recently wasn't she or am i not recalling that right? aside from a flash, can anyone recall a time she was overwhelmed or just flat out not fast enough to battle someone...? i'm not sure this is all that complicated imo.... /shrug

Aside from Flash meaning the only person she has fought other than Clark that is actually faster than light?

Good job proving WW is a slowpoke leo, you're a top debater!

So New 52 Supergirl (and average Kryptonians) isn't faster than light?

New 52 Supergirl is. Not clear about average kryptonians though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because it was cut? He stopped fighting because the mindcontrol was broken but he was still talking abd standing. Not incapacitated by a long shot. Prove the mindcontrol was broken before Wonder Woman snapped Maxwell Lord's neck. She specifically said to "Release him", and that was AFTER slicing Clark's neck

Originally posted by abhilegend
New 52 Supergirl is. Not clear about average kryptonians though. Then Wonder Woman beat the crap out of and defeated a FTL character, making her FTL by scaling

Both happened in seconds. And Superman wasn't toppled or anything.. Maybe stunned for a moment but certainly not incapacitated.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
So New 52 Supergirl (and average Kryptonians) isn't faster than light?

Still waiting for your scans......

Originally posted by abhilegend


https://xtremepyrosonic.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/15307424029791.jpg

To be fair to WW, she's not in that list because of her speed, lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend


https://xtremepyrosonic.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/15307424029791.jpg

Wonder Woman is in front of 2 characters that is as fast as light.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman is in front of 2 characters that is as fast as light.

Not due to her speed though

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not due to her speed though

Why? Because it said she understand the meaning of running?

Originally posted by carver9
Why? Because it said she understand the meaning of running?

It literally says she has her edge over the others due to her skill in running.....

Then says Godspeed (the next below her) is weakened.

Wallace is inexperienced.

And Shazam is as fast as lightning.

That's it

Yes she can go lightspeed but it's harder for her to reach that speed compared to other Heralds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It literally says she has her edge over the others due to her skill in running.....

Then says Godspeed (the next below her) is weakened.

Wallace is inexperienced.

And Shazam is as fast as lightning.

That's it

Lol... her skill is the reason she is as fast as she is. Bruce Lee Martial Artist "skill" made his hand movement one of the fastest in the world. No matter how skilled a human can get, it will not put them on the level of being able to tie up a kryptonian before he/she can react.

Ask Karate Kid lol.

But perhaps I should've clarified. WWs position on that list is due to her skill.

Of those below her, Godspeed is weakened, and Shazam runs as fast as lightning.
I'm sure you can Google the speed of lightning . Fast, yes, FTL, no

"Lightning" has "light" in its name.

Immortal King Carver IX is not stupid.

Now leave this thread, human.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ask Karate Kid lol.

But perhaps I should've clarified. WWs position on that list is due to her skill.

Of those below her, Godspeed is weakened, and Shazam runs as fast as lightning.
I'm sure you can Google the speed of lightning . Fast, yes, FTL, no

It's about running, skill won't do much there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She was unable to fight Mayfly with her superspeed. And Bizarro.

And Cheetah.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"Lightning" has "light" in its name.

Immortal King Carver IX is not stupid.

Now leave this thread, human.

.

Not to mention, that lightning wasn't even lightning. It was speed force energy, in the form of Wallyworld West.

Originally posted by cdtm
Diana is faster than Goku and Vegeta in depowered form, which is to say, not fast at all

https://i.imgur.com/43nbi7D.jpg

- CarverNein

Originally posted by Bentley


Hellraiser CDTM. So that's what I was like in my youth.

It was a different time. A time when you thought burning a house down to spite someone was funny, without taking into consideration all the other people in the building, and the people in the neighborhood, and the people in that city it spread to.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To be fair to WW, she's not in that list because of her speed, lol. Here's a scan
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/wonder-woman-beats-batman-wonder-woman-the-hiketeia-5.jpg

Here's some more scans
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wfzADRY_O18/WwaboPVe5PI/AAAAAAAA0Kk/axJY0EXRgfEgDmq5ATuW_UplZiLxByWHgCLcBGAs/s1600/ww%2B47%2B2.jpg

"She's too fast"
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1a017d024cbb6f294aed83e7702d4c71.webp
https://i.imgur.com/O4trmi5.jpg

She practically solo'd Zod and Faora for a moment there (who were beating the crap out of Superman before WW showed up), and then literally treated Clark like a hostage victim because she destroyed Faora so thoroughly.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5beeac9124c824e6f9bfb3bbb4c5c101

Zod could have finished Superman, and he would have had an advantage. Instead, he agreed to a truce.

Says a lot about his respect for her.

Agreed. Superman is, at heart, a farm boy who can't really understand what it means to be a true warrior. Zod and Diana at least understand that, despite being enemies.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Agreed. Superman is, at heart, a farm boy who can't really understand what it means to be a true warrior. Zod and Diana at least understand that, despite being enemies. Superman has had more fights in comics than any "warrior" in real world history. Not to mention the sparring, and training.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Agreed. Superman is, at heart, a farm boy who can't really understand what it means to be a true warrior. Zod and Diana at least understand that, despite being enemies. qft.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Here's a scan

So none of n52 WW fighting n52 Batman without holding back?

Thanks.

Meanwhile, I've shown n52 Batman, without armour, whilst injured, being sucker-punched by an amped WW who is not holding back. Who is specifically trying to kill him:

https://i.postimg.cc/HVYd0GQB/batman35-justiceleaguefenrirplan1.jpg

Can't really call it an outlier, when so far, I have shown the only time they've fought.

So going back to my original point: power-scaling is useless. If a writer wants to show it, Batman, a street, is able to fight with WW even when she's bloodlusted and amped. If a writer wants to show it, WW can tag speedsters. That doesn't mean she's faster.

Traveling speed? No
Hand and reflex speed? Yes

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Superman has had more fights in comics than any "warrior" in real world history. Not to mention the sparring, and training.

Fanboy alert! OBM is at it again with Superman boosting.


Next he'll be gushing over Spidey.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She was unable to fight Mayfly with her superspeed. And Bizarro.

meh the mayfly fight was super short. hard to conclude anything from that. she was more trying to figure out who mayfly was. i thought the feat where she blocked that bullet from a sniper rifle AFTER it penetrated the window was pretty damn impressive. calculate the speed of that bullet and the time it would have covered the distance from the window to her bracelet and that a hell of a reaction feat.

bizarro from trinity (if that's what you're talking about) did beat the hell out of her, but i've never been sure if that was canon.

she didn't QUITE seem as fast as hermes in combat, but it was pretty close.

cheetah is a good one, but it could be argued that cheetah too has light speed or close reaction times. we saw cheetah and superman. besides, wonder woman has given almost as well as she's taken from cheetah so that's close to a wash.

i think it can be said pretty definitively she can't travel ftl--at least not on her own though she can approach light speed. i consider her reaction speed to be light speed. there are feats to indicate they could be ftl, and some that would say otherwise. after thinking about it, i guess i'll settle in the middle. she's as fast or faster than pretty much anyone not superman or flash imo.

Post Flashpoint not sure but pre Flashpoint Wonder Woman is definitely not faster than light.

She couldn't catch or keep up with Jesse quick who is a Speedster that is definitely not faster than light Jessie has only one feat of reaching light speed when she was entering the speed force and that particular feed she was chasing her father's killer so pretty damn motivated to keep up with a Wonder Woman had to lasso her

Originally posted by leonidas
meh the mayfly fight was super short. hard to conclude anything from that. she was more trying to figure out who mayfly was. i thought the feat where she blocked that bullet from a sniper rifle AFTER it penetrated the window was pretty damn impressive. calculate the speed of that bullet and the time it would have covered the distance from the window to her bracelet and that a hell of a reaction feat.

bizarro from trinity (if that's what you're talking about) did beat the hell out of her, but i've never been sure if that was canon.

she didn't QUITE seem as fast as hermes in combat, but it was pretty close.

cheetah is a good one, but it could be argued that cheetah too has light speed or close reaction times. we saw cheetah and superman. besides, wonder woman has given almost as well as she's taken from cheetah so that's close to a wash.

i think it can be said pretty definitively she can't travel ftl--at least not on her own though she can approach light speed. i consider her reaction speed to be light speed. there are feats to indicate they could be ftl, and some that would say otherwise. after thinking about it, i guess i'll settle in the middle. she's as fast or faster than pretty much anyone not superman or flash imo.

Yeah...Trinity is bad for WW, if it is canon.

RA'S was giving her a fight:
https://i.postimg.cc/s1wws1Vs/AJwjjEr.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah...Trinity is bad for WW, if it is canon.

RA'S was giving her a fight:
https://i.postimg.cc/s1wws1Vs/AJwjjEr.jpg Meh, Deathstroke and Batman have also given her fights.

Yeah, but Bats has outright beaten Ra's before....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but Bats has outright beaten Ra's before.... https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/batmanwonderwoman11.jpg
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/batmanwonderwoman12.jpg

My point is, no lightspeeder (or FTL speeder) should even notice...what was it that Carver and XLR87T3 called them, 'street-level humans?' yeah, an FTL character shouldn't even notice them.

Assuming we are power scaling, of course.

I don't even know what you people are talking about, I'm just posting scans

#Yolo

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/batman-vs-reverse-flash-rebirth-6.png

You also draw pages yourself going by that Wonder Woman Ra's scan.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah...Trinity is bad for WW, if it is canon.

RA'S was giving her a fight:
https://i.postimg.cc/s1wws1Vs/AJwjjEr.jpg

Is this really considered giving her a fight? Lol... nothing happened here.

For you, Carv:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


My point is, no lightspeeder (or FTL speeder) should even notice...what was it that Carver and XLR87T3 called them, 'street-level humans?' yeah, an FTL character shouldn't even notice them.

Assuming we are power scaling, of course.

He was fast enough to draw blood.

Ra's. A normal-ish human, lol.

Edit: he also disarms her.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
For you, Carv:



He was fast enough to draw blood.

Ra's. A normal-ish human, lol.

Edit: he also disarms her.....

She drew blood. She caught his sword. Then she started slapping him. Doesn't seem like something a person would do going all out.

Originally posted by carver9
She drew blood. She caught his sword. Then she started slapping him. Doesn't seem like something a person would do going all out.

Yeah, so what you're telling me is, she allowed herself to get cut?

I don't think you quite grasp the speed difference between a FTL speedster and a street level human, lol. EVERYTHING Ras does should be in super slow motion to her. She could parry, brush her teeth, build a desk, carve it out of wood, make a whole stack of pencils, and write her life story on that desk in the time he realises she's parried his first blow.

He shouldn't be able to disarm her of her sword. He shouldn't be able to land a single blow. He shouldn't be able to draw blood.

But he did.

According to the 'logic' of power scaling, of battle feats, this means he's strong and fast enough to duel her. A human.

Is he, IYO?

so reverse flash wanted to get stabbed and beaten bloody by batman....? what's happening...?

the important thing is phil was right when he said yes, no and maybe.

Exactly.

My point is that relying on power scaling off battles alone is a bad way to go about it, because writers don't give a hoot about power levels.

Batman can tag Zoom. Ra's can disarm WW. WW can tag Superman.

Doesn't mean they're all on the same level.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, so what you're telling me is, she allowed herself to get cut?

I don't think you quite grasp the speed difference between a FTL speedster and a street level human, lol. EVERYTHING Ras does should be in super slow motion to her. She could parry, brush her teeth, build a desk, carve it out of wood, make a whole stack of pencils, and write her life story on that desk in the time he realises she's parried his first blow.

He shouldn't be able to disarm her of her sword. He shouldn't be able to land a single blow. He shouldn't be able to draw blood.

But he did.

According to the 'logic' of power scaling, of battle feats, this means he's strong and fast enough to duel her. A human.

Is he, IYO?

Lol... she chose to grab his sword. Yes, that's what I'm telling you. How do I know she chose to grab it? Well, his other swing, she split that sword in half.

I dont even know why this is being mentioned when Superman along with Flash have far worse showings, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly.

My point is that relying on power scaling off battles alone is a bad way to go about it, because writers don't give a hoot about power levels.

Batman can tag Zoom. Ra's can disarm WW. WW can tag Superman.

Doesn't mean they're all on the same level.

If Wonder Woman blitz Superman or move too fast for him to hit, that can NOT be ignored. Especially when she is moving so fast Supergirl didn't even see what happened or she is outright blitzing Supergirl and Powergirl to the point of them being unable to even touch her. That shows just how fast she is.

Originally posted by ghostman
well, is she?

She might be, but she's not faster than Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... she chose to grab his sword. Yes, that's what I'm telling you. How do I know she chose to grab it? Well, his other swing, she split that sword in half.

I dont even know why this is being mentioned when Superman along with Flash have far worse showings, lol.

A cut slips through. Lol, he got past her defenses. You're crazy.

He disarmed her as well, did you miss that?

Superman and Flash also have far better showings to tell us they can go fast. Casually breaking the time barrier, crossing the universe etc.

WW....does she have the showings that aren't just power scaling ones? That's the question. As a WW fan, I'm sure you have them, right?

Originally posted by carver9
If Wonder Woman blitz Superman or move too fast for him to hit, that can NOT be ignored. Especially when she is moving so fast Supergirl didn't even see what happened or she is outright blitzing Supergirl and Powergirl to the point of them being unable to even touch her. That shows just how fast she is.

Nor can Ra's, Deathstroke, and Batman etc. Power scaling can't only work when you want it to work, Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
If Wonder Woman blitz Superman or move too fast for him to hit, that can NOT be ignored. Especially when she is moving so fast Supergirl didn't even see what happened or she is outright blitzing Supergirl and Powergirl to the point of them being unable to even touch her. That shows just how fast she is.

If we have an example of both of them trying a blitz, one of them stops the blitz, while the other one casually speedblitzes the other, it's certainly worth a lot.

Case I:

https://i.imgur.com/ItuKEln.jpg

Case II:

https://i.imgur.com/Sbd3wyv.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
meh the mayfly fight was super short. hard to conclude anything from that. she was more trying to figure out who mayfly was. i thought the feat where she blocked that bullet from a sniper rifle AFTER it penetrated the window was pretty damn impressive. calculate the speed of that bullet and the time it would have covered the distance from the window to her bracelet and that a hell of a reaction feat.

Not sure what you're reading but that's not what happened.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i.imgur.com/ys7hvpK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b1hsN2x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wyhgXgb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YgjFbul.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fG21G6K.jpg

Mayfly owns diana.

It is canon.



Superman and Flash are in league of their own speed wise.

i'd thought you were talking about the more recent mayfly battle. ww....28 maybe? they looked relatively even in that encounter. i'm sure that was mayfly. now i'll have to go check. eventually.

anyway yeah, your scans are legit.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So none of n52 WW fighting n52 Batman without holding back?

Thanks.

Meanwhile, I've shown n52 Batman, without armour, whilst injured, being sucker-punched by an amped WW who is not holding back. Who is specifically trying to kill him:

https://i.postimg.cc/HVYd0GQB/batman35-justiceleaguefenrirplan1.jpg

Can't really call it an outlier, when so far, I have shown the only time they've fought.

So going back to my original point: power-scaling is useless. If a writer wants to show it, Batman, a street, is able to fight with WW even when she's bloodlusted and amped. If a writer wants to show it, WW can tag speedsters. That doesn't mean she's faster. How many times in New 52 has Batman been that durable without armor or amps? You don't seem to know the meaning of the word "outlier", we take their average feats against all characters he fought, not just one character. New 52 Batman's best physical feat is the scans you've shown, that's not even close to being an average showing for a guy who constantly struggles against Bane and Harley Quinn.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
How many times in New 52 has Batman been that durable without armor or amps? You don't seem to know the meaning of the word "outlier", we take their average feats against all characters he fought, not just one character.

He was pretty durable against NoBody. Was smashing through walls and stuff. That's pretty much the only time he's been in a fight without his armour.

You were the one who asked for scans against a non holding back WW now it's against ALL characters? Lol, moving goalposts much?

My point still remains. Writers ignore power levels. Just today, Superman was punched harder than even Doomsday, and all he had was a little bit of blood.

Show me ALL the times a speedster has moved so quickly, Batman is unable to react. Give me the average. He's fought Zoom, stabbing and punching him. Outreacted Superman. GL. Fought WW. I'm sure there are Flash scans too.

Look, at the end of the day, WW isn't Ares, lol.

She is THE biggest female superhero in all of comics. One of the Big Three. Had her own TV show, film etc. Been around since the 40s. Has her own title, and guest stars in many books.

And yet, when ghostman asks a simple question, all you guys have as proof are power scaling feats??? She's fought this character, who has this feat, therefore she gets that feat too??

Come on.

What feats does she have to say she is FTL?

She made this sandwich very fast

...Dang, that feat would scale against Alfred.






I'm empty

Too lazy to track down scans, but she did deflect Hermes lightning.

Which, given his status as super speedy messenger of the gods, is most likely not typical lightning. And even if it were, Hermes himself is still fast enough, where aim dodging would be impossible if she didn't possess sufficiant speed.

Originally posted by cdtm
Too lazy to track down scans, but she did deflect Hermes lightning.

Which, given his status as super speedy messenger of the gods, is most likely not typical lightning. And even if it were, Hermes himself is still fast enough, where aim dodging would be impossible if she didn't possess sufficiant speed.

You dont mean the same Hermes who was shown to be around the same speed as Wally West backnin his sonic days just post crisis do you?

I could hear the "THUUUUDDD" of beatboks slamming his cock on the table from another site entirely.

And this is why power scaling doesn't work, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was pretty durable against NoBody. Was smashing through walls and stuff. That's pretty much the only time he's been in a fight without his armour.

You were the one who asked for scans against a non holding back WW now it's against ALL characters? Lol, moving goalposts much?

My point still remains. Writers ignore power levels. Just today, Superman was punched harder than even Doomsday, and all he had was a little bit of blood.

Show me ALL the times a speedster has moved so quickly, Batman is unable to react. Give me the average. He's fought Zoom, stabbing and punching him. Outreacted Superman. GL. Fought WW. I'm sure there are Flash scans too. Can you give me the scans and issues for all of those? And are you really saying that Batman has herald tier durability?

I'm saying that writers ignore power levels to write a sexy story. They don't all sit in a room and hammer out consistency.

'Hey Snyder, last week you wrote that Batman can bench 500lbs, right? I better stick to that limit'

'King, remember in Batman #163, published back in 1974 DC said he could take a punch from Judomaster? Better stick to that!'

Batman has herald durability if you use the logic of power scaling. I do NOT think he has herald durability.

Also, the scan with Faora and Zod canonized Wonder Woman's power level, there is no ambiguity. She is Kryptonian level, even Superman recognized it

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I do NOT think he has herald durability. https://media.giphy.com/media/EouEzI5bBR8uk/giphy.gif

How powerful and fast is Konvikt, Darksaint?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm saying that writers ignore power levels to write a sexy story. They don't all sit in a room and hammer out consistency.

'Hey Snyder, last week you wrote that Batman can bench 500lbs, right? I better stick to that limit'

'King, remember in Batman #163, published back in 1974 DC said he could take a punch from Judomaster? Better stick to that!'

Batman has herald durability if you use the logic of power scaling. I do NOT think he has herald durability.

This is why characters with relatively fewer, yet consistent, appearances are easier to argue, theoretically. IMO, someone like Gladiator, who barely exists through his entire history as some do in a month, looks better for three solid feats then someone like, say, Superman.

It's not lowballing Batman to say "So in 50 years, he dodged a bullet twice? Not a bullet dodger, imo."

It's cherry picking to put those aberrations over his entire history.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
How powerful and fast is Konvikt, Darksaint?

I wrote a comment on this nearly 2 years ago:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think it depends on how many showings they have.

Deathstroke has plenty of showings, where, whilst he tags Flash, also has many showings where he is much slower than Flash (hit by bullets, for example).

Therefore, fights don't count as much. Feats do. Because of PIS, or WIS, or whatever, where he has to be shown to be a threat - thus, dumbing down the other side. Why else would Toyman be a fricking threat, lol.

LT? Darkseid? Fights count much more. They don't have as many appearances. ABC scaling is needed. When they enter a fight, it's a pretty damn big deal.

Captain Marvel? He has a fair few appearances. So his feats need to be taken into account. Orion? Fewer - and then, he only seems to be trotted out for fights (he IS the Dog of War, after all). So his fights count for more.

So with Konvikt, power-scaling is all we have. Hence my comment above about WW - she's been around since the 40s, yadda yadda. She has TONS of showings. She's not like Ares, where he's pretty much defined by his relationship with Hercules.

So it should be easy enough to post her FTL feats.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VLbn6wMGoVY/VnfY5LH9nhI/AAAAAAAABEk/9r2-xso5kSQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO002.jpg

shifty

Looks like Darksaint is saying the same thing I did just now. It's good to see he retroactively agrees with me.

Another fine example, is Val Armorr. He has few feats, AND he's human. His feats aren't PIS, and Slades are.

Because aside from the fewer showings, he also has narrative context from day one, of being fast enough and and strong enough to challenge Superboy. That was his initiation.

Plus, he was made in the silver age. Someone like him really couldn't work now, so he gets a pass for remaining relatively unchanged, as a relic of history. If Batman learned some martial arts that could rock Superman and defend a Flash blitz, it would be total bullshit.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Can you give me the scans and issues for all of those? And are you really saying that Batman has herald tier durability?

OK, scans and issues:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was pretty durable against NoBody. Was smashing through walls and stuff. That's pretty much the only time he's been in a fight without his armour.

Sorry, it was actually Lincoln March. Who is strong enough to twist metal in his hands (Batman Eternal#52):
https://imgur.com/a/EujNx

Here he is, stabbed through vital arteries, without his suit, and surviving a fall after being kicked through 'unbreakable' glass:
https://imgur.com/a/X9plB


Zoom is trying to KO him, and succeeds, but Batman manages to stall him. Remember, this is ZOOM. The guy who blitzes Flashes (Batman #21):
https://imgur.com/a/12QCB


Superman was possessed by Eclipso. Batman dodged HV beams AFTER they were fired:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Eclipso, btw, makes you stronger:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0X06zg1plqw/WH9z-XT4CKI/AAAAAAABmyk/49miN2UdIEYmSBE_sjIyTzcEba5p9mxewCLcB/s1600/12_05.jpg

Bonus: Batman was also fighting WW in that issue:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-325Ka0ZuvRY/WIqkdK60aSI/AAAAAAABqdU/Ei64Tzqgq_E59UEZKoWesTnnYKLZbh6nQCLcB/s1600/33_003.jpg

Here are some more bonus ones. Superman's son is being mind-controlled by Manchester Black, who is 'pushing Superboy's powers to the limit'. Superboy attempts to speedblitz Batman. Doesn't work:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v3ogGJf-2Io/WUpA75FKTgI/AAAAAAAACnc/7U09Vzf2L8MN6anJQuggTDCmbQ6RU8AFACHMYCw/s1600/RCO007.jpg

So yeah, if we used 'power scaling' for established characters like Batman and, for the purposes of this thread, Wonder Woman, then it ends with Batman being high herald, lol.

Note all my scans are n52/Rebirth. I'm not even getting into pre-52, lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VLbn6wMGoVY/VnfY5LH9nhI/AAAAAAAABEk/9r2-xso5kSQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO002.jpg

shifty That pose tho.

Wonder Woman has a FTL feat without scaling

https://m.imgur.com/a/5dOoi

Finally Thor made it into the thread!

Hahaha. At least it wasn't Carver's 'heres WW entering the Speed Force under her own power' myth.

Ghostman, does this satisfy you?

Originally posted by Bentley
Finally Thor made it into the thread! Slowdinson has nothing to do with this thread, leave him out of it

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Slowdinson has nothing to do with this thread, leave him out of it

It's a pun. That's what we all refer to as the Shattered God feat (we were waiting to see if there were any other feats).

I don't get it

You know the story behind those scans you posted right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know the story behind those scans you posted right? The Shattered God, a being so powerful even the Guardians of the Universe fear her, is putting herself back together again, piece by piece.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OK, scans and issues:



Sorry, it was actually Lincoln March. Who is strong enough to twist metal in his hands (Batman Eternal#52):
https://imgur.com/a/EujNx

Here he is, stabbed through vital arteries, without his suit, and surviving a fall after being kicked through 'unbreakable' glass:
https://imgur.com/a/X9plB


Zoom is trying to KO him, and succeeds, but Batman manages to stall him. Remember, this is ZOOM. The guy who blitzes Flashes (Batman #21):
https://imgur.com/a/12QCB


Superman was possessed by Eclipso. Batman dodged HV beams AFTER they were fired:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Eclipso, btw, makes you stronger:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0X06zg1plqw/WH9z-XT4CKI/AAAAAAABmyk/49miN2UdIEYmSBE_sjIyTzcEba5p9mxewCLcB/s1600/12_05.jpg

Bonus: Batman was also fighting WW in that issue:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-325Ka0ZuvRY/WIqkdK60aSI/AAAAAAABqdU/Ei64Tzqgq_E59UEZKoWesTnnYKLZbh6nQCLcB/s1600/33_003.jpg

Here are some more bonus ones. Superman's son is being mind-controlled by Manchester Black, who is 'pushing Superboy's powers to the limit'. Superboy attempts to speedblitz Batman. Doesn't work:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v3ogGJf-2Io/WUpA75FKTgI/AAAAAAAACnc/7U09Vzf2L8MN6anJQuggTDCmbQ6RU8AFACHMYCw/s1600/RCO007.jpg

So yeah, if we used 'power scaling' for established characters like Batman and, for the purposes of this thread, Wonder Woman, then it ends with Batman being high herald, lol.

Note all my scans are n52/Rebirth. I'm not even getting into pre-52, lol.

Makes HUMANS stronger. When Wonder Woman was possessed, a b lister team dogpile put her down.

Plus you have the can of worms that is Eclipsed Superman vs Captain Marvel, followed by Eclipsed Lar Gand vs Superman. Super ended up looking better, regardless of which side of Eclipsed he was on.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
The Shattered God, a being so powerful even the Guardians of the Universe fear her, is putting herself back together again, piece by piece.

Shattered God....Thor....Thor is a god... he's shattered.....

Originally posted by cdtm
Makes HUMANS stronger. When Wonder Woman was possessed, a b lister team dogpile put her down.

Plus you have the can of worms that is Eclipsed Superman vs Captain Marvel, followed by Eclipsed Lar Gand vs Superman. Super ended up looking better, regardless of which side of Eclipsed he was on.

That's pre 52. Hence my use of only n52/Rebirth scans.

My point being, it doesn't weaken them at the very least. It makes them bloodlusted. Superman was def bloodlusted there, and Batman still managed to dodge them after they were fired.

No words on how it affects humans differently, and without those words, we can't just assume WW is weaker. Power scaling doesn't work

Well, I don't reallly have a dog in that race. I mean, as a fan, I win either way with Supes.

Just saying, the amp is pretty vague and doesn't seem to do much at higher levels, aside from making the victim bloodlusted. Basically, there's no real mention of a mid tier/herald level being being stronger, either.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Wonder Woman has a FTL feat without scaling

https://m.imgur.com/a/5dOoi My point still stands, Wonder Woman has a objective FTL speed feat, she's faster than light

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hahaha. At least it wasn't Carver's 'heres WW entering the Speed Force under her own power' myth.

Ghostman, does this satisfy you?

He wouldnt dare, I already posted the context of that feat a few pahes ago. Without lassoing JQ to drag her there not happening. And b4 we get the crap argument that the lasso is a speed feat let me remind u "magic lasso" that is "mentally comanded"

Originally posted by XLR87T3
My point still stands, Wonder Woman has a objective FTL speed feat, she's faster than light

Outlier.

Also, Rebirth WW is different from pre-52.