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Two questions.


1. Should we consider a character's outlier feats as the exact power level they will be operating in a forum fight or should we disregard them.

For example, Supergirl casually lifted a million tons. Should Supergirl come into every forum fight with at least several million tons of strength or should we disregard the feat?

2. Should we use a character`s highest feat (but not quite an outlier) as the exact power level they will be operating at in a forum or should we use more of an average?

I don't think a universal rule can apply, seeing as every character has different amounts of screen time, feats, writers penning them etc. For me, it depends on how much of an outlier it is, and how many contradictory showings there are.

A good example of this is the last season of Agents of Shield's finale, where Daisy survives an impact that, quite frankly, would have left a super soldier a bloody, broken mess. And she barely sustained any injuries, other than a few cuts and scrapes. But, while she has consistently shown some degree of enhanced durability, none of her other durability feats come even close to this. Not even remotely. And she has also been hurt by less on multiple occasions.

So, personally, that's not a showing I would fall back on when discussing her durability in a forum fight. I'd rather use examples like taking hits from human form Ghost Rider and Kree soldiers, which is a lot more consistently portrayed in the show. Now, if she didn't have all those other feats that consistently portrayed a different level, then I would be more inclined to give that final feat some weight.

Or with Luke Cage, for example. If he only performed one or two headslap KO's, but had to punch people 99% of the time, I'd throw out the headslap KO. But because he does it consistently (especially in Season 2) to the point where even Claire remarked on his ability to do so, I still consider it a valid feat for forum fights, even if he doesn't do it every single time he KOs someone.

What I think should not happen, is if a character displays any hint of super speed or fast movement, then people want to make it seem like in every fight that character will be moving around he battlefield like the flash and their opponents will be statues.
This is dumb and ridiculous.
That would be like me claiming that Bucky moves at super speed all his fights because he was able to dodge gunfire from automatic weapons.

I want to hear what standards H1 thinks should be used.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I want to hear what standards H1 thinks should be used.

Average should always be what we use. I mean, when you look at a professional basketball player, you don't take the best game he's ever had and expect him to perform every game at that level. Neither do you take the worst game he's ever had and apply that as his expected output in every game.

Well then, lets use a popular character who has a wide range of feats, some of which are quite controversial and has had multiple powerups as an example so we can all get on the same page then.

Take Thors star feat for example. Ok, it's an obvious outlier but it's the most current feat, so do we say, ok, he has had a recent power amp or upgrade and he is obviously capable of operating at this level now but do we average it out or say it's a constant because it's the most current.

Just like Thor, Justice League portrayed Supes as nigh untouchable in regards to both speed and strength, but it is his most current portrayal.

So I personally feel like both Superman and Thor should operate at their current levels of portrayal, they have gotten an upgrade and it is what it is. These two simply operate at a much higher level than their peers.

Can Superman flash around 100% of a fight? No, but he can do it enough that the point is moot because the fight is gonna be over quickly regardless.

Can Thor be hurt by less than billions of tons of heat and matter hitting him? Yeah, but his durability is far and above anything anybody can really dish out.

These are their current portrayals so I feel like most of their low feats should be inadmissible due to being obvious upgrades.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Average should always be what we use. I mean, when you look at a professional basketball player, you don't take the best game he's ever had and expect him to perform every game at that level. Neither do you take the worst game he's ever had and apply that as his expected output in every game.

I agree with this unless they have had an obvious upgrade like my last post states.

Or if they have an external power source. So Iron Man will always operate at whatever his current suit being used is capable of

My take is to use an average. Because using outlier feats (unless it's a clear writer's intent upgrade) as how a character will perform in a forum is outright asinine and a damn lie. It will warp every showing in the movies where we get ridiculous shit that's simply not true.

I have used highest showings because others have. It would be stupid for anyone to use average where others uses max feats. Bottomline, we should all be on the same page for whatever we choose. And it should reflect common portrayals against characters who the character of question has fought against.

If you use average, why do you keep trying to use the bullet catch for Ozy?

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you use average, why do you keep trying to use the bullet catch for Ozy?

Reading is fundamental. I never stated that I used averages.

Originally posted by h1a8


I have used highest showings because others have. It would be stupid for anyone to use average where others uses max feats.

IOW, you are willing to go against your principles if it helps your argument.

BTW, h1 has once again just proven himself a liar. if you look at the most recent Ozy vs Panther thread you'll notice that it was h1 that first brought up high-end outliers.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t658603.html

So this idea that he only does so because other people do it, is a lie.

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW, h1 has once again just proven himself a liar. if you look at the most recent Ozy vs Panther thread you'll notice that it was h1 that first brought up high-end outliers.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t658603.html

So this idea that he only does so because other people do it, is a lie. You are incredibly slow. Again I use high end feats because others do.

If you don't understand what that means then you are not worth a discussion. Everyone here can clearly see how stupid you are.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are incredibly slow. Again I use high end feats because others do.

If you don't understand what that means then you are not worth a discussion. Everyone here can clearly see how stupid you are.

You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Proof that you are stupid.

So you dont know what "I use (as all the time) high end feats because others do (all the time in every thread)" means?

Changing your quote and then pretending that was your original claim, just further proof that you're a liar.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Changing your quote and then pretending that was your original claim, just further proof that you're a liar.

I don't need to change anything.
You are the only one here that apparently doesn't know what
"I used the highest showings because others have" mean.

Maybe it's the word "have".
Here's a hint: That word implies the past, not the present.

Original quote

Originally posted by h1a8
I have used highest showings because others have. It would be stupid for anyone to use average where others uses max feats.

Your changed quote

Originally posted by h1a8
Proof that you are stupid.

So you dont know what "I use (as all the time) high end feats because others do (all the time in every thread)" means?



h1 = liar

Originally posted by Silent Master
Original quote



Your changed quote





h1 = liar

You are the one who doesn't understand
"I used the highest showings because others have." mean

Apparently "others have" somehow doesn't mean the past.

You were the first one to use high-end outliers. you weren't doing so in response to anyone.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first one to use high-end outliers. you weren't doing so in response to anyone.
Prove that I was the first one to use high-end showings.
ALERT!
Everyone watch Silent post something incredibly stupid in the next post.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t658603.html

Originally posted by Silent Master
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t658603.html

See I told you he would post something incredibly stupid. Silent doesn't realize that the thread was created in Jan 11, 2019 but members have been using high end showings far before that .

Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean.

Let's break it down to him so that he can learn English.
"Others have" used high end showings before the Ozy Black Panther thread. This satisfies "because others have ".


Basically here is how Silent is arguing.
Member says, "something happened in the past as to why I do things a certain way."

Silent says, "stop lying, that something didn't happen before Jan 11, 2019."


Pure stupidity.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
See I told you he would post something incredibly stupid. Silent doesn't realize that the thread was created in Jan 11, 2019 but members have been using high end showings far before that .

Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean.

Let's break it down to him so that he can learn English.
"Others have" used high end showings before the Ozy Black Panther thread. This satisfies "because others have ".


Basically here is how Silent is arguing.
Member says, "something happened in the past as to why I do things a certain way."

Silent says, "stop lying, that something didn't happen before Jan 11, 2019."


Pure stupidity.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You were the first to use high end feats in that thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Like I said, Silent doesn't know what "I used high end showings because others have" mean..

If you truly believe that only averages should be used. agree right now to never use high-end outliers again in regular debates.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you truly believe that only averages should be used. agree right now to never use high-end outliers again in regular debates.

Reading is fundamental

Originally posted by h1a8


It would be stupid for anyone to use average where others uses max feats.

Use average feats and call out those trying to use high-end outliers. easy.

So, will you agree to never use high-end outliers?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Use average feats and call out those trying to use high-end outliers. easy.

So, will you agree to never use high-end outliers?

You i guess you are truly dumb.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Use average feats and call out those trying to use high-end outliers. easy.

So, will you agree to never use high-end outliers?

Originally posted by Silent Master


Why don't you use averages and let me use high-end feats and call me out for using high-end feats?

Thank you, you just proved to the entire board that I was right about you.

Actually, you just proved how stupid you are.
Anyone who reads our exchange will see that.

No h1. No one is on your side no matter how much you try and convince yourself.


You got caught lying again.

They'll see that you claim that we should use averages, yet you will always bring up the high-end feats for a character you want to win while at the same time saying high-end feats for the other side don't count because they're outliers.

Thank you for proving to the entire board that you're a massive hypocrite.

Originally posted by KingD19
No h1. No one is on your side no matter how much you try and convince yourself.


You got caught lying again.

LOL really? I think you are joking.
Where is the lie?

Originally posted by Silent Master
They'll see that you claim that we should use averages, yet you will always bring up the high-end feats for a character you want to win while at the same time saying high-end feats for the other side don't count because they're outliers.

Thank you for proving to the entire board that you're a massive hypocrite.

No one use averages here. Everyone (including you) uses high end showings, including outliers. Therefore, it will be stupid for me to not use them.

So since this thread has no consensus then we will continue to use high-end showings as a character's power level. Unless someone wants argue otherwise.

Originally posted by h1a8
No one use averages here. Everyone (including you) uses high end showings, including outliers. Therefore, it will be stupid for me to not use them.

So since this thread has no consensus then we will continue to use high-end showings as a character's power level. Unless someone wants argue otherwise.

You didn't address my post in the first page.
Do you think a character showing the slightest hint of moving at above normal speed, should mean that they move around the battlefield like the flash and everyone is a statue to them in all their fights?
Even though non of that is shown, but is assumed based on the character having a single moment that they seemed to move with enhanced speed.

Originally posted by Inhuman
You didn't address my post in the first page.
Do you think a character showing the slightest hint of moving at above normal speed, should mean that they move around the battlefield like the flash and everyone is a statue to them in all their fights?
Even though non of that is shown, but is assumed based on the character having a single moment that they seemed to move with enhanced speed.

That's what this thread is about. Should a character always operate at their highest showings in a forum fight?

Originally posted by h1a8
That's what this thread is about. Should a character always operate at their highest showings in a forum fight?

Yes, if a character performed a feat, there is no reason to believe he couldn't replicate it.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes, if a character performed a feat, there is no reason to believe he couldn't replicate it.

Way to ignore the actual point or twist the words where it doesn't sound as bad.

Will a character perform to that level at all times or always operate at that level in a forum fight?
That's the question.

It's a simple yes or no and a rephrasing of the question.

Again, you call Hela's feat an outlier while at the same time use Ozy's bullet feat.

You're a hypocrite and the entire board knows it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Way to ignore the actual point or twist the words where it doesn't sound as bad.

Will a character perform to that level at all times or always operate at that level in a forum fight?
That's the question.

It's a simple yes or no and a rephrasing of the question.

If I can lift a 10kg weight today with little effort, is there any reason to believe I couldn't do the same tomorrow?

Unless there is movie evidence, under similar conditions a character should be able to replicate the feat.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If I can lift a 10kg weight today with little effort, is there any reason to believe I couldn't do the same tomorrow?

Unless there is movie evidence, under similar conditions a character should be able to replicate the feat.

Ok so you won't answer yes or no but rather explain irrelevant shit.
Why be so dense?


Fictional characters aren't real. They operate at different levels in different scenes. In one scene they can effortlessly lift a million tons and in other they struggle to lift 50 tons (or fail to overpower someone who can't lift above 100 tons). If you didn't know inconsistency and contradicts don't happen in fiction then something is wrong with you and you shouldn't be part of the discussion.

And you keep referring to replicating a feat. This is a forum fight not a feat to achieve. In a forum fight, will the character operate ALWAYS at the highest showings they achieved? Simple yes or no. You don't have to explain why or why not.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, you call Hela's feat an outlier while at the same time use Ozy's bullet feat.

You're a hypocrite and the entire board knows it.

Calling Hela's feat an outlier =/= calling the feat not usable.
That's for us to decide as a whole (like a vote), or in a mod ruling.

Another stupid post by you.

Again, you ignore the main point. you call Hela's feat an outlier while at the same time use Ozy's bullet feat.

You're a hypocrite and the entire board knows it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok so you won't answer yes or no but rather explain irrelevant shit.
Why be so dense?


Fictional characters aren't real. They operate at different levels in different scenes. In one scene they can effortlessly lift a million tons and in other they struggle to lift 50 tons (or fail to overpower someone who can't lift above 100 tons). If you didn't know inconsistency and contradicts don't happen in fiction then something is wrong with you and you shouldn't be part of the discussion.

And you keep referring to replicating a feat. This is a forum fight not a feat to achieve. In a forum fight, will the character operate ALWAYS at the highest showings they achieved? Simple yes or no. You don't have to explain why or why not.

Are you even READING what I am saying H1!?

You are asking whether a person will ALWAYS operate under his greatest showing, aren't you!?

My response to your question:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes, if a character performed a feat, there is no reason to believe he couldn't replicate it.

In case your reading comprenhension is failing, what am saying is, a character will be able to operate at his greatest showing UNLESS there is canon material to retcon it.

In a fight, a character won't necessarily operate at his highest power however(Like if the character doesn't feel the need do so), but will certainly be able to do so, should the need arise.

That is ofcourse, as long as his greatest feat remains canon.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Are you even READING what I am saying H1!?

You are asking whether a person will ALWAYS operate under his greatest showing, aren't you!?

My response to your question:



In case your reading comprenhension is failing, what am saying is, a character will be able to operate at his greatest showing UNLESS there is canon material to retcon it.

In a fight, a character won't necessarily operate at his highest power however(Like if the character doesn't feel the need do so), but will certainly be able to do so, should the need arise.

That is ofcourse, as long as his greatest feat remains canon.

I have no clue to what you are talking about. You are making things complicated. Why not just answer yes or no and then explain why or why not?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, you ignore the main point. you call Hela's feat an outlier while at the same time use Ozy's bullet feat.

You're a hypocrite and the entire board knows it.

Calling Hela's feat an outlier =/= calling the feat not usable. There isn't anything hypocritical about it. If I stated that her feat is unusable (I'm not a mod) and then say that another outlier is usable then you have a point. But at the moment, everyone, including me and you, agrees that all outliers are usable.


Another stupid post by you.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no clue to what you are talking about. You are making things complicated. Why not just answer yes or no and then explain why or why not?

I already said yes, with the conditions I listed above.

Originally posted by h1a8
Calling Hela's feat an outlier =/= calling the feat not usable. There isn't anything hypocritical about it. If I stated that her feat is unusable (I'm not a mod) and then say that another outlier is usable then you have a point. But at the moment, everyone, including me and you, agrees that all outliers are usable.


Another stupid post by you.

Again, you are missing the point. here, I'll try and dumb this down enough for you.

h1: Hela only performed the feat once, that means it's an outlier.

h1: Ozy only performed the feat once, that means it's not an outlier.

Everyone else: h1 is a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, you are missing the point. here, I'll try and dumb this down enough for you.

h1: Hela only performed the feat once, that means it's an outlier.

h1: Ozy only performed the feat once, that means it's not an outlier.

Everyone else: h1 is a hypocrite.

Whether something is an outlier or not is irrelevant to its usability.

Why argue semantics with someone when it does not address the spirit of the problem at all?

That's basically derailing the thread.

Performing a feat once is not the definition of an outlier. If you disagree then, again, we are arguing semantics.

We are arguing your double standards.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We are arguing your double standards.

Which has nothing to do with the thread. Glad you admit to derailing the thread.

It has everything to do with the thread, because we cannot properly address the question posed in the Op if we are all using different definitions of outlier and high-end.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It has everything to do with the thread, because we cannot properly address the question posed in the Op if we are all using different definitions of outlier and high-end.
Well we can discuss what should be an outlier.

My take is
Outlier is a feat that is significantly beyond all shown limits of a character.

And
High-end is the highest feat a character has done, not necessarily significantly beyond all shown limits.

Then you agree that the bullet feet is an outlier?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you agree that the bullet feet is an outlier?

Ozy didn't show any limits that were significantly lower. Him blocking attacks wasn't a shown limit to his perception ability or his top hand speed.

If Ozy was consistently getting tagged (which is a shown limit) then we can clearly say that the bullet feat is an outlier.

Fact is, none of Ozy's other feats even come close to being bullet time. Therefore under the definition you just gave, the bullet time feat is an outlier.

Stop being a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Fact is, none of Ozy's other feats even come close to being bullet time. Therefore under the definition you just gave, the bullet time feat is an outlier.

Stop being a hypocrite.

He did not show limits below bullet time. Keep up.

None of his other feats showed anything close to bullet-time, keep up and stop being a hypocrite.

The married couple is at it again.

Originally posted by Silent Master
None of his other feats showed anything close to bullet-time, keep up and stop being a hypocrite.

One of his feats showed close to bullet time.
But neither of his feats has to.
As long as they didn't show limits far below bullet time.

Post the scene you claim is close to bullet time.

Then the same holds true for Hela's feats.

Originally posted by h1a8

But neither of his feats has to.
As long as they didn't show limits far below bullet time.