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The collusion has been with Democrats, that's why they're accusiing Trump of this. It's to cover up their crimes.

Democrats aren't Subject to the same Laws as the rest of us.

Yeah Robbie has been backing this NothingBurger since Day One.

Lying Bastard.

Also:

"We were never going to find a contract signed in blood saying, 'Hey Vlad, we're going to collude,'" one Democratic aide said."

Lol oh democrats...

I'm waiting on the Mueller Probe tbh.

Yeah I am sure Mueller will be able to make some up....

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yeah I am sure Mueller will be able to make some up....

I think some will be disappointed.

Prepare to be disappointed with Russia investigation conclusion

Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment

Trigger warning for snowflakes, Tim Pool video about to be posted:

NO EVIDENCE OF RUSSIA COLLUSION Investigation Concludes

uK4-rEH8-I4

This is his take on the news and he also touches on how journalists are being told the Mueller probe will be a dud.

Again, declaring a victory and flapping your arms around like retards before the Mueller report is finished* is silly, you're only setting yourself up for possible epic levels of Trumper coping.

*again, this is on the grounds the AG releases it and does try to bury

"We may learn there was no indication that President Trump personally did anything illegal. Or Mueller may lay out rock solid proof of a criminal conspiracy or other violations that causes a chain reaction leading to the downfall of the Trump administration." -snip

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, declaring a victory and flapping your arms around like retards before the Mueller report is finished* is silly, you're only setting yourself up for possible epic levels of Trumper coping.

*again, this is on the grounds the AG releases it and does try to bury

"We may learn there was no indication that President Trump personally did anything illegal. Or Mueller may lay out rock solid proof of a criminal conspiracy or other violations that causes a chain reaction leading to the downfall of the Trump administration." -snip

No victory has been declared overall, it's merely been said that this investigation found no evidence of collusion.

Dems, Fearing Russia Collusion Investigation Will Come Up Empty, Now Attacking Robert Mueller

Originally posted by Surtur
Dems, Fearing Russia Collusion Investigation Will Come Up Empty, Now Attacking Robert Mueller



Good.

It's a strange world when anyone, regardless of their political "side" actually WANT their president to be corrupt.

I've struggled with that answer, and you probably have seen me ask it a few times.

My conclusion is that political enemies are now criminals to the other side.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
It's a strange world when anyone, regardless of their political "side" actually WANT their president to be corrupt.

That's very odd, I agree, but it's not necessarily dangerous. What's dangerous is when people will look away from corruption and make excuses because it's their guy.

Let me put it this way, I'd rather have a few million crying anti-Trumpers whining and blabbering because Trump's not corrupt than a few million Trumpers defending his corruption should the investigation point that way, be it trying to tamper with the investigation, money laundering or outright treason.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
I've struggled with that answer, and you probably have seen me ask it a few times.

My conclusion is that political enemies are now criminals to the other side.



Both of those points show why entrenched partisanship is such a problem. If two groups pull an elastic rope in opposite directions with increasing force then there's only 2 outcomes. Either the rope snaps and irrevocably breaks or both sides stop pulling and move towards the middle.

Both major parties are corrupt, just to different levels. I always laugh when one side cries about the other being corrupt while ignoring the corruption from their side.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Both of those points show why entrenched partisanship is such a problem. If two groups pull an elastic rope in opposite directions with increasing force then there's only 2 outcomes. Either the rope snaps and irrevocably breaks or both sides stop pulling and move towards the middle.

That has been looked at before where it has been shown that the right isn't moving further right, they are consolidating with their beliefs while the left has moved further and further left with less consolidation.

It was a study done by PEW since the 1990s.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Both major parties are corrupt, just to different levels. I always laugh when one side cries about the other being corrupt while ignoring the corruption from their side.

Which is more corrupt, iyo?

IMO, the Republicans are more corrupt.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you have anything from 2019?

I would be happy if it just wasn't from an op-ed section.

I think they are currently the bigger problem. but for the most part the democrat's ideas are usually very flawed. so even without the republicans. the country would still be on a downward spiral.

Originally posted by snowdragon
That has been looked at before where it has been shown that the right isn't moving further right, they are consolidating with their beliefs while the left has moved further and further left with less consolidation.

It was a study done by PEW since the 1990s.

This PEW graph doesn't support that at least with regards to elected representatives.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/06/FT_14.06.13_congressionalPolarization.png

Yeah, was pretty sure we've been moving further Right since at least Reagan.

He's not talking about the number elected officials from each party.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's not talking about the number elected officials from each party.

Well they are elected on their political standpoints. It's not unreasonable to say that their stance is representative of their voter's.

That empty nigh center is disheartening

We have a ton of corruption here in Chicago, which is run by Democrats. We recently had a scandal where an alderman wore a wire and uncovered shady shit another alderman was doing and a lot of the other alderman here were showing more indignation over the fact the guy wore a wire than the corruption it exposed.

I've just sort of become used to it. I don't know which side is more corrupt, but I do know it's close enough that one side has no room judging the other.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
This PEW graph doesn't support that at least with regards to elected representatives.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/06/FT_14.06.13_congressionalPolarization.png

It looks like Republicans are not as liberal as they used to be, based on those graphs.

But the title of what is actually being measured is quite literally nonsensical or at least, it has no context. What they are measuring is meaningless without context.



I just did some google searching. I'm not finding much to support any position other than the parties are becoming more polarized and the young are becoming more conservative than years past.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Well they are elected on their political standpoints. It's not unreasonable to say that their stance is representative of their voter's.

Number of each side in office doesn't tell us anything about how far right/left their positions are. if you want to see what direction they're moving in, you have to compare the left/right's current positions with the positions they held in the past.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It looks like Republicans are not as liberal as they used to be, based on those graphs.

But the title of what is actually being measured is quite literally nonsensical or at least, it has no context. What they are measuring is meaningless without context.



I just did some google searching. I'm not finding much to support any position other than the parties are becoming more polarized and the young are becoming more conservative than years past.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/12/polarized-politics-in-congress-began-in-the-1970s-and-has-been-getting-worse-ever-since/


There's the article it's from. ^

http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
This PEW graph doesn't support that at least with regards to elected representatives.


Here is another one that shows political polarization from 1994-2017:

Pew Pew Page



Full report:

Long Pew Report (caffeine required)

Originally posted by Silent Master
Number of each side in office doesn't tell us anything about how far right/left their positions are. if you want to see what direction they're moving in, you have to compare the left/right's current positions with the positions they held in the past.

The X axis measures how far from the political centre the numbers are. The numbers themselves aren't really the issue as they'll fluctuate depending on how many of each party are in office at any given time. The graphs show that the Dems have shifted less to the liberal side than the repubs have to the conservative end.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Here is another one that shows political polarization from 1994-2017:

Pew Pew Page



Full report:

Long Pew Report (caffeine required)

So it's really just a matter of timeframe.

Both are still pulling away from the centre.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
So it's really just a matter of timeframe.

Both are still pulling away from the centre.

They are, something of note is that if on that chart you if you look at politically engaged and by party you can get a better idea of what that means in the USA with the years available to be examined (as it relates to those politically engaged.)

It all makes for pretty grim reading. Seems both sides are at the point where they are happy to cut their nose off to spite their face if it meant getting one over on their perceived "enemies".

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
It all makes for pretty grim reading. Seems both sides are at the point where they are happy to cut their nose off to spite their face if it meant getting one over on their perceived "enemies".

I agree, we have a supposed toxic culture (really its only toxic to those who participate) that has a platform we have never experienced before, the internet.

It allows the volume to be turned up on things that wouldn't have had any value to our cultures prior to the internet.

I think in good faith we can return to a more thoughtful society and governance when we find a way to turn down the volume and close off the silo's that the extremes hide in.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
The X axis measures how far from the political centre the numbers are. The numbers themselves aren't really the issue as they'll fluctuate depending on how many of each party are in office at any given time. The graphs show that the Dems have shifted less to the liberal side than the repubs have to the conservative end.

I'd have to see the research that they used to come up with that graph, because if you just look at people's positions now versus what they were 25 years ago it's exceedingly obvious that we are further to the left, which for the most part is a good thing

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'd have to see the research that they used to come up with that graph, because if you just look at people's positions now versus what they were 25 years ago it's exceedingly obvious that we are further to the left, which for the most part is a good thing

I posted the links to the articles although I didn't see details as to the roll call votes they used, in which I agree are likely to have shifted left over time on certain issues. Interestingly, one of the clarifications was that even with issues where both sides have moved in the same direction such as gay rights/marriage the gap between the sides has increased because the liberals have moved further left than the conservatives have.

Originally posted by snowdragon
I agree, we have a supposed toxic culture (really its only toxic to those who participate) that has a platform we have never experienced before, the internet.

It allows the volume to be turned up on things that wouldn't have had any value to our cultures prior to the internet.

I think in good faith we can return to a more thoughtful society and governance when we find a way to turn down the volume and close off the silo's that the extremes hide in.

I mostly agree with that although it affects people who don't participate also as unless they are some kind of survivalist hermit living off the grid then political desicions affect them even when they don't engage in the political system.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I mostly agree with that although it affects people who don't participate also as unless they are some kind of survivalist hermit living off the grid then political desicions affect them even when they don't engage in the political system.

Sure but if they aren't engaging then they normally don't end up in that weirdo extreme political group or views because their friends/families in RL tend to balance that noise.

It becomes toxic when it is your main avenue for expression/relationships and it becomes your life living in those toxic silos.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Sure but if they aren't engaging then they normally don't end up in that weirdo extreme political group or views because their friends/families in RL tend to balance that noise.

It becomes toxic when it is your main avenue for expression/relationships and it becomes your life living in those toxic silos.

Yep. That's true. Far too many echo chambers nowadays. Confirmation bias coupled with cognitive dissonance also means that while it's easy for people to identify when there's another group that exists in a bubble they don't acknowledge that they themselves are in another.

Hopefully things such as UnFound.news get more traction or even BuzzFeed's "outside your bubble" concept.

Damn I forgot I made two threads. Again No collusion

Originally posted by Robtard
Bit misleading title.

But yes, I'm still waiting on the Mueller probe, have been since it started. Hopefully we get to see it either way it lands and Trump's AG doesn't bury it as has been implied.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yeah Robbie has been backing this NothingBurger since Day One.

Lying Bastard.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, declaring a victory and flapping your arms around like retards before the Mueller report is finished* is silly, you're only setting yourself up for possible epic levels of Trumper coping.

*again, this is on the grounds the AG releases it and does try to bury

"We may learn there was no indication that President Trump personally did anything illegal. Or Mueller may lay out rock solid proof of a criminal conspiracy or other violations that causes a chain reaction leading to the downfall of the Trump administration." -snip

You were saying?