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A judge appointed by Barack Obama lifts the transgender ban injunction allowing the restrictions to go into effect.

Link

That'll really freak out ISIS.

Tragic.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
That'll really freak out ISIS.

I dont think you understood. The injunction prohibited the Trump administration from banning transgender troops. The injunction was lifted meaning the ban can go into effect.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
I dont think you understood. The injunction prohibited the Trump administration from banning transgender troops. The injunction was lifted meaning the ban can go into effect.

To be fair tho ISIS probably would freak over trannies. They'd be all "Since we embrace Islam, we wish we could toss these guys off buildings"

So wait, did the Supreme court basically make a ruling telling the lower courts to **** off in general? That it's not proper for one random federal judge to be able to override any executive order Trump issues on the fly?

The lower court was ultimately bound by the Supreme Court's decision and (I know shocking here) the Supreme Court is backing Trump's ban on transgender troops.

So Trump is shitting on soldiers that fought and served for this country and the Trump bus is cheering. What a victory.

As if you served this country ever or have any right to talk about anyone who did

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
As if you served this country ever or have any right to talk about anyone who did

Why do people not want transgender troops in the first place?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do people not want transgender troops in the first place?

Because transgender people can't take a bullet as well as a "normal" soldier or something.

I'm sure someone will say it's about "mental illness" in a concerned voice, but then they'll ignore that many, many, many active troops have some form of mental illness or another. eg PTSD being a prime example, yet these PTSD sufferers aren't being blanketed and denied like the transsexual troops will now be.

Hell, there's troops that faked or exaggerated their PTSD as to get out of their service early and they still get military benefits.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do people not want transgender troops in the first place?

Far as I've heard, it's all about the government having to pay for hormone replacement therapy/operations.

In other words, money. Most former servicemen I've spoken with are pretty unfront about Uncle Sam cheaping out on taking care of them, however they can.

Originally posted by cdtm
Far as I've heard, it's all about the government having to pay for hormone replacement therapy/operations.

In other words, money. Most former servicemen I've spoken with are pretty unfront about Uncle Sam cheaping out on taking care of them, however they can.

Sounds like a BS claim. The amount of money spent there is peanuts, 8.4 million. The Defense Departments spends 80+ million on viagra and other limp-dick problems. But a few mil in hormones breaks the bank? Nah.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because transgender people can't take a bullet as well as a "normal" soldier or something.

I'm sure someone will say it's about "mental illness" in a concerned voice, but then they'll ignore that many, many, many active troops have some form of mental illness or another. eg PTSD being a prime example, yet these PTSD sufferers aren't being blanketed and denied like the transsexual troops will now be.

Hell, there's troops that faked or exaggerated their PTSD as to get out of their service early and they still get military benefits.

Yeah, I don't believe for one second the brass gives a hot shit about the mental health of the troops on the ground.

Originally posted by cdtm
Far as I've heard, it's all about the government having to pay for hormone replacement therapy/operations.

In other words, money. Most former servicemen I've spoken with are pretty unfront about Uncle Sam cheaping out on taking care of them, however they can.

On the one hand, I could see why someone might have that issue. Military spending should be spent on military endeavours.

Then again, the US military budget is so obscenely big already, and it's not like most of that money is being put to good use is it?

Originally posted by Robtard
Because transgender people can't take a bullet as well as a "normal" soldier or something.

I'm sure someone will say it's about "mental illness" in a concerned voice, but then they'll ignore that many, many, many active troops have some form of mental illness or another. eg PTSD being a prime example, yet these PTSD sufferers aren't being blanketed and denied like the transsexual troops will now be.

Hell, there's troops that faked or exaggerated their PTSD as to get out of their service early and they still get military benefits.

Nope, its because they are unstable and mentally ill, and its a risk to everyone to put live bullets and grenades in the hands of mentally unstable people.

.

This kinda thing is ****ed up to me. People want to serve their country and Trump wants to ban them when he would never make that kind of sacrifice himself?

Originally posted by mike brown
This kinda thing is ****ed up to me. People want to serve their country and Trump wants to ban them when he would never make that kind of sacrifice himself?

There is a list of things that disqualify you from military service ranging from bone spurs(ha) to asthma.


Military List

So mull through that list and see if anything jumps out that might be problematic for someone causing significant changes to their hormones etc.

Endocrine and Metabolic Disorders
The following conditions may disqualify you for military service:

a. Adrenal dysfunction of any degree.

b. Diabetes mellitus of any type.

c. Glycosuria. Persistent, when associated with impaired glucose tolerance or renal tubular defects.

d. Acromegaly. Gigantism or other disorder of pituitary function.

e. Gout.

f. Hyperinsulinism.

g. Hyperparathyroidism and hypoparathyroidism.

h. Thyroid disorders.

(1) Goiter, persistent or untreated.

(2) Hypothyroidism, uncontrolled by medication.

(3) Cretinism.

(4) Hyperthyroidism.

(5) Thyroiditis.

Any number of these things can happened from removing your reproductive organs

Originally posted by Surtur
To be fair tho ISIS probably would freak over trannies. They'd be all "Since we embrace Islam, we wish we could toss these guys off buildings"

Or rape then marry them.

As far as I'm aware the military is pretty restrictive about health conditions. One of my friends just got ****ed out of being able to join the coast guard because of acid reflux or some shit.

That being said, I'm not going to pretend to be familiar enough with the surrounding information to cheer or weep about this.

I mainly want to know if the referred to Supreme Court decision is a check on the power of the lower courts who honestly seem like they've been exercising a bit too much power recently.

Originally posted by snowdragon
There is a list of things that disqualify you from military service ranging from bone spurs(ha) to asthma.


Military List

So mull through that list and see if anything jumps out that might be problematic for someone causing significant changes to their hormones etc.

Even fake bones spurs. Anyhow.

That's approaching the situation from unfair standards, as you're blanketing all trans soldiers and saying they're all not up to par regardless if they are or not.

No one's arguing that a trans soldier should be exempt from from standard military regulations and protocols, if any single trans soldier fails as on their own merits, then remove them as you would any other soldier who failed. There are active trans soldiers now serving; seems at least some came meet the requirements.

edit: Despite her age, Kristin Beck would probably still meet the physical requirements of most military units

Dude you dont know anything about the military or their standards, please stop commenting on things you have no idea about. Yes Trump didn't serve, but neither did you.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As far as I'm aware the military is pretty restrictive about health conditions. One of my friends just got ****ed out of being able to join the coast guard because of acid reflux or some shit.

That being said, I'm not going to pretend to be familiar enough with the surrounding information to cheer or weep about this.

I mainly want to know if the referred to Supreme Court decision is a check on the power of the lower courts who honestly seem like they've been exercising a bit too much power recently.

Okay, as noted, no one is arguing trans soldiers be exempt . If they fail as individuals, then they fail, just like any other.

But it seems so as this Judge said he was abiding to the SC ruling.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Endocrine and Metabolic Disorders
The following conditions may disqualify you for military service:

a. Adrenal dysfunction of any degree.

b. Diabetes mellitus of any type.

c. Glycosuria. Persistent, when associated with impaired glucose tolerance or renal tubular defects.

d. Acromegaly. Gigantism or other disorder of pituitary function.

e. Gout.

f. Hyperinsulinism.

g. Hyperparathyroidism and hypoparathyroidism.

h. Thyroid disorders.

(1) Goiter, persistent or untreated.

(2) Hypothyroidism, uncontrolled by medication.

(3) Cretinism.

(4) Hyperthyroidism.

(5) Thyroiditis.

Any number of these things can happened from removing your reproductive organs

I understand what you're saying and maybe that was a knee jerk response on my part. But why can't they be assessed as individuals instead of a blanket ban?

Well, if you think about it, aren't medical conditions all generalized? I mean aren't there ppl with some of the above conditions that can function just as well or even better than some non-spur ppl but this is still a disqualifying factor?

Originally posted by Robtard
Even fake bones spurs. Anyhow.

That's approaching the situation from unfair standards, as you're blanketing all trans soldiers and saying they're all not up to par regardless if they are or not.

No one's arguing that a trans soldier should be exempt from from standard military regulations and protocols, if any single trans soldier fails as on their own merits, then remove them as you would any other soldier who failed. There are active trans soldiers now serving; seems at least some came meet the requirements.

edit: Despite her age, Kristin Beck would probably still meet the physical requirements of most military units

That's not my list of medical conditions that would prevent you from joining the military, it's their list. If they were to undergo transition while they were in service would it prevent them from doing their jobs? Would it create changes that would make them ineligible medically? It seems to me that aside from the male/female aspect the physiological changes and hormonal could be problematic.

If they had made the changes prior to joining would there be problems in their medicals that would show up on that list? I don't know but it seems to me rather then worry about "feelings" it would be wiser to simply review them medically.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, if you think about it, aren't medical conditions all generalized? I mean aren't there ppl with some of the above conditions that can function just as well or even better than some ppl w/o any of the conditions above but this is still a disqualifying factor?

Forgot to edit other half of my post lol.

Yes but the question is why does being trans have to be added to the list of disqualifying conditions in and of itself. If the idea is trans people might suffer some of those other conditions then why not just assess them individually to determine that.

Originally posted by mike brown
Yes but the question is why does being trans have to be added to the list of disqualifying conditions in and of itself. If the idea is trans people might suffer some of those other conditions then why not just assess them individually to determine that.

Why do things like diabetes disqualify you, I mean it's controllable, are diabetics less lethal when it's controlled, can they not function at some desk job?

It's because there are a host of other concerns that come from that sort of diagnosis, I'm not a transgender specialist which is why I listed the things that can disqualify you. Do folks that go through significant hormone therapy run into any conditions on the list consistently? I'm simply asking the question based on what the military allows from a medical point of view.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Why do things like diabetes disqualify you, I mean it's controllable, are diabetics less lethal when it's controlled, can they not function at some desk job?

Feels like an old-holdout from yesteryear when it was hard to care for a diabetic. In the field, need insulin, you die without it.

But having to run around with a pump that constantly pumps insulin into your body? Not conducive to field operations even a tiny bit.


Also, your rescue and military personnel should be a cut above illnesses that can result in death in less than a day.

If you have type 1 or a severe form or type 2, you have no business being anywhere near military operations.



Also, you can be disqualified for a security clearance because of bad credit. Which is more concerning that a severe diabetic being disqualified from military service.

Originally posted by mike brown
Yes but the question is why does being trans have to be added to the list of disqualifying conditions in and of itself. If the idea is trans people might suffer some of those other conditions then why not just assess them individually to determine that.

Well, training costs.


If we're talking about systemic problems with a sub group, why put them in boot camp if some high percent have to leave?

Completely changing your endocrine system through artificial means is madness when you consider regular asthma is a disqualifier

Originally posted by dadudemon
Feels like an old-holdout from yesteryear when it was hard to care for a diabetic. In the field, need insulin, you die without it.

But having to run around with a pump that constantly pumps insulin into your body? Not conducive to field operations even a tiny bit.




Hmm interesting that you focused on the field when I also mentioned desk jobs. I also used diabetes because people are more familiar with it and it specifically is something in the hormonal/endocrine list for disqualification.

Do transgenders suffer from problems related to the list I previously provided regarding medical disqualifications? Does the hormone replacement add additional stresses? What happens if they do not receive their hormones for a period of time in the field?

If transgendered are they required to pass biological sex test for physical requirements or for their new gender?

Just because someone WANTS to serve in the military it doesn't automatically mean they should be able to serve.

Originally posted by mike brown
I understand what you're saying and maybe that was a knee jerk response on my part. But why can't they be assessed as individuals instead of a blanket ban?

Because the ban is not about military readiness, it is about anti-transgender animus. Anything less than a blanket ban on transgender service members will not satisfy the anti-transgender bigotry the ban was designed to appeal to.

I agree with the trans ban here.

Have to draw a line within some institutions. The problem with trans people, gays and other weirdos outlier-minorities is that when people start to accept them in society the try to change the standards, norms and rules to suit their frivolous wants and worldveiws. We see this with SJW's today trying to pass off ingrained gender differences as "social constructs" just becuase they've been given a bit of power within education among other institutes. So it's better to just straight up ban Trannies from serving before they try and divert and time and resources from military to make them feel more at home.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Hmm interesting that you focused on the field when I also mentioned desk jobs.

Interesting that you brought up desk jobs and diabetics when my post started with the following:



Because an insulin pump could certainly serve a desk jockey quite well but not a field operative crawling through the jungle or sand for days.

estahuh


Edit - I'm being a dick.

.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Dude, you don't know anything about mental illness or the diagnostic criteria. Please stop commenting on things you have no idea about. he might, he was in the army Adam, who knows what he saw or experienced. Broly has been in self admitted bad places so... he might know.

Honestly that's why I'm refraining from commenting on this. I'm not expert enough in this area.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly that's why I'm refraining from commenting on this. I'm not expert enough in this area. Me neither my dad was a soldier before working as a diplomat but he said it was something he hated, many of my family including my youngest served, but not in America. I have no diagnoses mental health issue... ha and I'm no expert on the different types.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Dude, you don't know anything about mental illness or the diagnostic criteria. Please stop commenting on things you have no idea about.

I hope my input can help with this conversation.

See my previous post and follow-up clarification:

Originally posted by dadudemon
According to the DSM-5, yes .

Page 451:
https://www.psikolojiagi.com/wp-content/uploads/Y%C3%BCklemeler/E-Kitaplar/DSM%20-%20V%20(English).pdf

The APA also cautions against labeling all transgendered with a pathology:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6225591/

Originally posted by dadudemon
I hope my input can help with this conversation.

See my previous post and follow-up clarification:



The APA also cautions against labeling all transgendered with a pathology:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6225591/ That makes sense.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Me neither my dad was a soldier before working as a diplomat but he said it was something he hated, many of my family including my youngest served, but not in America. I have no diagnoses mental health issue... ha and I'm no expert on the different types. Clarfication youngest of my first 2.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do people not want transgender troops in the first place?
A transgender individual will identify as male female, but is not physically; the stress of living in a body that is not 'right' can take its toll. Therefore, a transgender individual might not be fit to serve unless his/her body issues are adequately addressed (surgical interventions and affiliated costs).

Body insecurities can affect morale and/or 'presence of mind' in the battlefield; not recommended. Military is no place for this nonsense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A transgender individual will identify as male female, but is not physically; the stress of living in a body that is not 'right' can take its toll. Therefore, a transgender individual might not be fit to serve unless his/her body issues are adequately addressed (surgical interventions and affiliated costs).

Body insecurities can affect morale and/or 'presence of mind' in the battlefield; not recommended. Military is no place for this nonsense.

Cool story. The militaries of 20 developed nations, including our own Department of Defense, would argue otherwise.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Cool story. The militaries of 20 developed nations, including our own Department of Defense, would argue otherwise.
Acceptance does not imply that the underlying problems do not exist. I just pointed out the obvious.

It is up to you to decide how you run an organization. Whether you are doing a better job at it, or taking greater risks then others, is the point.