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fights in tokyo

1km apart

1km makes it pretty tough for t2. castle is the weak link. he's got good gear but either se or ss would get ninja-close with that type of distance between them, unless it's a purely featureless environment and he isn't beating either of them in h2h. i'd take cap over either, but not both and again, the range makes it tough. cap can't do anything over that distance, unless he borrows weapons from castle which would be ooc. hard to see t2 winning any of these.

I really don't know about that. I'll be honest I don't know enough about SS and SS to comment. But are they better than DD in h2h? If they're not we can't assume that Castle is going to lose. Not to mention Frank Castle has been getting more impressive shwoings from about 2006 so he's not usually the mafia-fighting-almost-realistic-human levels. He recently had a good showing against Iron Fist where it's pretty clear he could have beaten Iron Fist in h2h if it wasn't for the Iron Fist.

Not to mention are we even sure that it's even going to get to h2h? Are SS and SS faster than Spiderman because Castle didn't have any problems blasting Spiderman in the chest.

they have some pretty crazy speed/stealth feats between them. i think you're highballing castle a bit here. in general castle<daredevil. in some cases he's been shown to be considerably below dd. i'd put ss and se on par with dd in many areas tbh. SOME would place one or both above, and SOME might suggest they are spidey level. they aren't. not in general. it's possible in a featureless environment--no where for them to hide/dodge/get cover that castle could get them, but se also has weapons similar to frank and is at least as deadly with them. some of this depends on the environment, but i wouldn't bet on frank against either se or ss. he'd make them work, but either would take a very solid majority imo. it seems like it would end in a 2 on 1 much more often than not to me.

Originally posted by leonidas
they have some pretty crazy speed/stealth feats between them. i think you're highballing castle a bit here. in general castle<daredevil. in some cases he's been shown to be considerably below dd. i'd put ss and se on par with dd in many areas tbh.

I see were you're coming from but I think you're misunderstanding the fights between DD and Punisher they're a lot more closer than you think and it's more like 6/10. I studied a lot of those fights, first of all in there second fight The Punisher actually lets DD win. It's not my opinion it was confirmed by the editor. Also alot of people don't understand when you have fights bwteen DD and Punisher were Punisher gets knocked down or looks bad that doesn't mean that Frank has lost the fight. Punisher is not as agile and as skilled as DD but he's very tough so any encounter that they have will involve Punisher getting beaten up more but because he's so tough and still has skill the longer the fight goes the closer it is.

Take Lapham's DD vs Punisher. In their first fight Punisher is getting beaten up by DD but specifically says that he can take the beating and the first fight ends up with DD getting knocked to the floor. Later on in the series we see Castle and DD getting into scuffles where Punisher looks bad but the fight gets interrupted however when we get to the last fight in the series were it goes the distance DD wins but gets beaten up badly. It's the same thing under Garth Einnis Punisher states that he doesn't stand a chance against DD gets knocked to the ground and the fights gets interrupted. Now the last fight they have under Einnis involves DD getting the drop on Punisher dislocating his wrist via sneak attack and knocking him to the ground, that fight ends with Punisher launching him through a window. Sure this is a featurless envinronment but the bottom line is if DD hadn't dislocated his wrist (Frank was still able to throw a couple of punches) and got the drop on him the fight would have gone on for much longer and DD would have got beaten up badly or even lost.

Now the problem you have is that the Punisher has been getting more impressive showings. His most recent fight against Iron Fist showed that Castle had no problem dealing with his speed and skill the problem he had was with him channeling the Iron Fist, not only that Castle proved it again by making Danny accidentaly punch Luke Cage in the face. We have him stalemating Aloysha Kravinoff a guy who has beaten Black Panther in h2h, killing Vulture (the second one), taking on The Avengers. He's also held his own against Daken which wasn't 100% h2h but at the time he had a broken leg, and other wounds and injuries and was pyshcologicaly messed up (oh yea think he hadn't slept for days either). I don't think that SE and SS have got a feat that impressive in fact I'm willing to bet even Batman doesn't ie in that condition against somebody that dangerous (obvosuly Batman has better feats in general).

However there is one last fight that DD and Punisher had in Seventh Circle were Punisher gets owned. I think it's not unreasonable to assume that it's due to the fact that he had just got into a fight with Crimson Dynamo had been knocked to the floor and CD was about to kill him by stepping on his chest. CD hits a lot harder than DD.



Originally posted by leonidas

SOME would place one or both above, and SOME might suggest they are spidey level. they aren't. not in general. it's possible in a featureless environment--no where for them to hide/dodge/get cover that castle could get them, but se also has weapons similar to frank and is at least as deadly with them. some of this depends on the environment, but i wouldn't bet on frank against either se or ss. he'd make them work, but either would take a very solid majority imo. it seems like it would end in a 2 on 1 much more often than not to me.

Again maybe I'm wrong here but unless you can prove it theres no reason for me to think that ss or se is better with a gun than Frank. As I mentioned before recently Frank had no problem blasting Spiderman in the chest with a shotgun, I should also mention he was fighting The Avengers at the time and also managed to web Thor in the face before he could drop his hammer. Not only that he's managed to shoot a speedster that was faster than Spiderman.

I just think you're giving ss and se the benefit of a doubt because they're kinda like DD so you're assuming they get the win. However I will say this the fact they have guns as well does bother me but not they're skill and speed really.

Oh I forgot that it's 1km apart and in a city. That could make things worse for team 1. Frank is very good at using the environment as a weapon and could set up traps. I'm not sure if they can even sneak up on him he's been able to detect The Hand, other ninjas sneaking up on him and DD. Sometimes it's like he has a battle sense and has even been able to dodge a sniper bullet just through battle instinct.

He's also an expert on ninjuitsu and has been able to predict a trap due to this.