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random encounter
who wins


https://i.postimg.cc/yD8VQ3PX/tm.jpg

Current Braniac alone is a threat to that team.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/72c52c20a66f2eecfd39f0fd58e8d12c/tenor.gif

But yeah, DC wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://media1.tenor.com/images/72c52c20a66f2eecfd39f0fd58e8d12c/tenor.gif

click the pic to see it better lol

Originally posted by SquallX
Current Braniac alone is a threat to that team.

why?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
why?

The best feat I can think off from the top of my head. In Convergence, he casually restrained Zero Hour Parallax like he was nothing.

And they also have the TP advantage.

Plus Parasite

Plus Despero, Raven and Grail.

Not to mention Firestorm.

YO I'm the first one to love a Team A vs Team B fight, and I'm guilty of posting some weirdos and misfires, but you have literally 36 characters in this one fight and very few are from the same teams in the comics. How in the world could we possibly discuss this lol

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
YO I'm the first one to love a Team A vs Team B fight, and I'm guilty of posting some weirdos and misfires, but you have literally 36 characters in this one fight and very few are from the same teams in the comics. How in the world could we possibly discuss this lol

No need to debate. DC wins handily


DC has Braniac and Ares (depending on incarnation) who could possibly solo. The rest arent really needed

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No need to debate. DC wins handily


DC has Braniac and Ares (depending on incarnation) who could possibly solo. The rest arent really needed

Aw man if team Marvel only had Sentry then maybe he could also rip DC Ares in half and then Torch could just "go nova" on Brainiac

are you guys suggesting noone on the marvel team is resistant to TP, or can launch herald level attacks, including someone like Hela with her hax?

her feats https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:681261

tell me how she's being beaten lol

dc lolstomps

Originally posted by MrMind
dc lolstomps

they got sersi the hack queen she can give out immortality for at least an hr while most of the heavy hitters like Hyperion, Beta ray bill, Hela, Ronan, black bolt and Vulcan can really handle black adam and the others, Plus at LEAST five on DC side are gonna make Vulcan stronger

This is who Amanda needed to go up against Brainiac in a TP battle:

https://i.postimg.cc/sGx4dZWd/Justice-League-No-Justice-1-DC-Comics-spoilers-5.jpg

Note who's there. Maxwell Lord, DrDestiny, Manchester Black....and Hector Hammond. Any of these guys alone would mind raped Team Marvel.

And they had to be combined just to fight Brainiac. Who now has people like Despero and H'el backing him up.

Most if not all of the heavy hitters are getting mind controlled, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is who Amanda needed to go up against Brainiac in a TP battle:

https://i.postimg.cc/sGx4dZWd/Justice-League-No-Justice-1-DC-Comics-spoilers-5.jpg

Note who's there. Maxwell Lord, DrDestiny, Manchester Black....and Hector Hammond. Any of these guys alone would mind raped Team Marvel.

And they had to be combined just to fight Brainiac. Who now has people like Despero and H'el backing him up.

Most if not all of the heavy hitters are getting mind controlled, lol.

or apoc could possibly mind **** them? Super skrull can create a force field inside their heads and turn thier brains to glue

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
or apoc could possibly mind **** them? Super skrull can create a force field inside their heads and turn thier brains to glue

Apoc doesn't have the feats to suggest he can go up against Brainiac, let alone Brainiac with Despero and H'el backing him up with TP.

Not to mention, Brainiac as a machine colony regenerates. black Adam flew through his head and he just shrugged it off.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apoc doesn't have the feats to suggest he can go up against Brainiac, let alone Brainiac with Despero and H'el backing him up with TP.

Not to mention, Brainiac as a machine colony regenerates. black Adam flew through his head and he just shrugged it off.

Lol let's not forget apocalypse is a very smart villain with shape shifting abilities
now marvel teams seems to have vulcan who would drain most of them
super skrull could go invisible are create force fields inside their bodies not to mentioned hell worry be busy with captain britian

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Lol let's not forget apocalypse is a very smart villain with shape shifting abilities
now marvel teams seems to have vulcan who would drain most of them
super skrull could go invisible are create force fields inside their bodies not to mentioned hell worry be busy with captain britian

Not smarter than Brainiac. Or even Luthor.

Vulcan can be negated by TP. Or Parasite.

Going invisible means nothing when half the guys don't need their sight (they came still see in infra red, or have super hearing etc).

Cap Britain is a non factor.

But I can see you have nothing to counter my points, and are just throwing everything and anything you can think of

Base argument:. DC mindrapes Marvel here. If you can present a counter to it, feel free to do so.

It took an entire team of the most powerful psychics on Earth just to attempt to fight Brainiac, on his own. Now, he has help, from speedster telepaths

Take out Brainiac looks like Alberto didn't know Braniac got an upgrade. Could argue that Doom is smarter than Luthor.

Originally posted by Deadline
Take out Brainiac looks like Alberto didn't know Braniac got an upgrade. Could argue that Doom is smarter than Luthor.

plus Ares, Despero and H'el, IMO. TP - when most of the Marvel team have no defence against - is a big plus, even before one gets into the speed argument.

I mean, yeah, sure, Hela is powerful (assuming we don't have her current levels). But considering Despero MO is to mind control his opponents, can she ALSO fight Vulcan/BB/Thor etc off?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
plus Ares, Despero and H'el, IMO. TP - when most of the Marvel team have no defence against - is a big plus, even before one gets into the speed argument.

I mean, yeah, sure, Hela is powerful (assuming we don't have her current levels). But considering Despero MO is to mind control his opponents, can she ALSO fight Vulcan/BB/Thor etc off?

Lets just replace Brainac first. How about Mongul or Frankenstein? It could be argued that maybe Thor could deal with the speed.....

*looks at Marvel team again* Ahhh I really want Marvel to win but I dunno, got some serious heavy hitters on DC.

EDIT: *looks again* Oh no DC has shaggy man....

Probably Mongul. Never got the love for Frank. But then, Mongul has so few feats. Zod? Just because he actually has been seen more.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Probably Mongul. Never got the love for Frank. But then, Mongul has so few feats. Zod? Just because he actually has been seen more.

Ok Zod.

I dunno if DC mindrapes Marvel. I think Apoc has been shown to easily use a TP blast on Xavie,r are they gonna mindblast Hela? Thor, Glads and Hyperion could arguably deal with FTL speed attacks.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok Zod.

I dunno if DC mindrapes Marvel. I think Apoc has been shown to easily use a TP blast on Xavie,r are they gonna mindblast Hela? Thor, Glads and Hyperion could arguably deal with FTL speed attacks.

Glads isn't there, I don't think. I think you are looking at Klaw, the Black Panther villain? Which may further influence your decision as to who wins, when a major player is now gone.

Not just a TP blast, it's more a mind control. The difference being, it gives one side the numbers advantage.... suddenly, you're having to fight them AND your own team mates (which is what Despero does).

Ruddy absorbs their powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Glads isn't there, I don't think. I think you are looking at Klaw, the Black Panther villain? Which may further influence your decision as to who wins, when a major player is now gone.

Not just a TP blast, it's more a mind control. The difference being, it gives one side the numbers advantage.... suddenly, you're having to fight them AND your own team mates (which is what Despero does).

Ok the only thing that I can think of is this. It seems to me the people with the strongest TP resistance are Apoc, Doom, Hela and mmmmaybe Vulcan. Maybe this group can create a defence (like a force field) for the characters that are not mincontrolled, while they're behind the shield maybe they could reverse Desperos mind control. I could possibly see Apoc and Hela doing this but they would have to do it behind a protective barrier so they wouldn't have to fight the others and undo the mindcontrol.

Doom could possibly resist the TP because he has a strong will and is a skilled practionner of magic. In Mighty Avengers he nearly defeated the whole team by conjuring up a vast army of mindless ones. That is one viable tactic to deal with being outnumbered. I've also seen the male Thor shurg off mind control from Phoenix enhanced Emma maybe Jane could do the same.

EDIT: Vulcan has absorbed magic maybe he could literialy absorb TP?

i also suspect Sersi could resist Desperos....I also could see Nova's worldmind blocking out Desperos TP. I just can't see Despero mindcontrolling Nova nd nothing happening.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
her feats https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:681261

tell me how she's being beaten lol Is she immune to getting turned into salt, tho? I think not.

The problem is that Marvel team has way too many sides that aren't straight punches. Nearly all are thinkers in battle. They don't beat you straight up. They out maneuver you.

@galan007 And how much of team DC immune to Cersies mind manipulation? How many on DC side are energy projectors and therefore fodder and batteries to amp Vulcan?

And yes, Hela is in fact likely immune to being turned to salt. She's a ****ing goddess that's feared by a ****ing ENTIRE COSMIC PANTHEON!!

..if Apocalypse was so easy to stop with TP,wouldnt Jean,Cable,Xavier,Nate etc been did it?🤔...Dude has Stalemated High Evolutionary and Loki but gets Lowballed here..wow..Tp wont work on Vulcan,Black Bolt,Dr Doom,Sersi..Definitely Hela and Im sure The others that are trained warriors with strong wills..

Whats H'els defense vs Transmutation and Matter Manipulation...cause he fought Kryptonians whose fighting method is punching and kicking🤔

.H'el has No defense against this..most of them dont

https://i.postimg.cc/rzk1GHZ2/wos.jpg

I bet Sersi abilty to Transmute is Better then Firestorms..She is 5th level amongst Eternal..and these ppl have Thousands of years of Experience.
Firestorm finally showed his ability to transmute organic matter but he doesn’t have control of it

Originally posted by Deadline


EDIT: Vulcan has absorbed magic maybe he could literialy absorb TP?
We've already seen mental attacks works on him though. Had Nightshade and Oracle not gone easy on him, that would have been the end of him, which he admits.

He kept Oracle around during the arcs with Rachel too. She'd have pegged him otherwise.

Originally posted by StyleTime
We've already seen mental attacks works on him though. He kept Oracle around during the arcs with Rachel too. She'd have pegged him otherwise.

i thought vulcans reistant to tp?

Hm. It's a little more even if you make them fight one on one. Matching them to their opposite squares.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The problem is that Marvel team has way too many sides that aren't straight punches. Nearly all are thinkers in battle. They don't beat you straight up. They out maneuver you.

@galan007 And how much of team DC immune to Cersies mind manipulation? How many on DC side are energy projectors and therefore fodder and batteries to amp Vulcan?

And yes, Hela is in fact likely immune to being turned to salt. She's a ****ing goddess that's feared by a ****ing ENTIRE COSMIC PANTHEON!!

..if Apocalypse was so easy to stop with TP,wouldnt Jean,Cable,Xavier,Nate etc been did it?🤔...Dude has Stalemated High Evolutionary and Loki but gets Lowballed here..wow..Tp wont work on Vulcan,Black Bolt,Dr Doom,Sersi..Definitely Hela and Im sure The others that are trained warriors with strong wills..

Whats H'els defense vs Transmutation and Matter Manipulation...cause he fought Kryptonians whose fighting method is punching and kicking🤔

.H'el has No defense against this..most of them dont

https://i.postimg.cc/rzk1GHZ2/wos.jpg So Marvel has no counter for salt transmutation? Thought not.

Originally posted by Galan007
So Marvel has no counter for salt transmutation? Thought not.

are you serious? she's the goddess of death, and loki's daughter

Originally posted by Deadline
Take out Brainiac looks like Alberto didn't know Braniac got an upgrade. Could argue that Doom is smarter than Luthor.

Is this true, Alberto?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
are you serious? she's the goddess of death, and loki's daughter

She'd make some tasty salt

what's true? about the upgrade? i'm not sure, does it bring relevancy to the outcome?

also, please address this

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The problem is that Marvel team has way too many sides that aren't straight punches. Nearly all are thinkers in battle. They don't beat you straight up. They out maneuver you.

@galan007 And how much of team DC immune to Cersies mind manipulation? How many on DC side are energy projectors and therefore fodder and batteries to amp Vulcan?

And yes, Hela is in fact likely immune to being turned to salt. She's a ****ing goddess that's feared by a ****ing ENTIRE COSMIC PANTHEON!!

..if Apocalypse was so easy to stop with TP,wouldnt Jean,Cable,Xavier,Nate etc been did it?🤔...Dude has Stalemated High Evolutionary and Loki but gets Lowballed here..wow..Tp wont work on Vulcan,Black Bolt,Dr Doom,Sersi..Definitely Hela and Im sure The others that are trained warriors with strong wills..

Whats H'els defense vs Transmutation and Matter Manipulation...cause he fought Kryptonians whose fighting method is punching and kicking🤔

.H'el has No defense against this..most of them dont

https://i.postimg.cc/rzk1GHZ2/wos.jpg

But you haven't addressed anything of mine.

And yes, with it, DC stomp, handily.

I'm sure you've read Convergence etc, so you must have known about his upgrades.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But you haven't addressed anything of mine.

And yes, with it, DC stomp, handily.

I'm sure you've read Convergence etc, so you must have known about his upgrades.

current braniac isn't multiversal, well not from what he's showed recently.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
are you serious? she's the goddess of death, and loki's daughter

Point being?

Also, Ruddy can literally drain her without even trying.

Originally posted by SquallX
Point being?

Also, Ruddy can literally drain her without even trying.

black bolt has cosmic awareness which he would use to alert his team
lol the team also have tp resistance so let's see what happen to braniac or hel when creel get his hands on both of them or hela absorb their soul's

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
current braniac isn't multiversal, well not from what he's showed recently.

Unless its been retconned, it's still valid.

Besides, he's still far and above the most powerful telepath here. You keep tossing words like 'Sersi can manipulate minds' and 'Vulcan has resistance to TP' etc etc.

But there are differing power levels being talked about here. Brainiac and Despero are simply on another level. You think MMH and WW haven't resisted TP before? That Superman hasn't? Didn't matter to Despero. Didn't matter to Brainiac.

And now, they are on the same team.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
black bolt has cosmic awareness which he would use to alert his team
lol the team also have tp resistance so let's see what happen to braniac or hel when creel get his hands on both of them or hela absorb their soul's

Luthor can blink him into the future/to the ends of the universe. Creel is a non-factor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Luthor can blink him into the future/to the ends of the universe. Creel is a non-factor.

with what exactly? what's stopping the marvel guys from blitzing and ending luthor before doing anything.. or is luthor reaction on par with these guys now?


and Jane fought the original Phoenix on the astral plane. are they greater than the phoenix in tp now?

Vulcan actually suppressed Rachels TP before..he can Absorb Psionic energy as well.. do your proper Research...The Phoenix Force and Nate Grey are Superior Telepaths by far then Despero..Heck Moondragon has done what he's done(Enslave a planet)..Neither Xavier or Jean nor nate have ever Been able to Penetrate Apocalypse TP defense unaided...

Alberto me and Darksaint suggested we change Brainiac for Zod, from what I hear about Brainiac he gives team DC an unfair advantage.

EDIT: However if you can make a case Alberto....

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
with what exactly? what's stopping the marvel guys from blitzing and ending luthor before doing anything.. or is luthor reaction on par with these guys now?


and Jane fought the original Phoenix on the astral plane. are they greater than the phoenix in tp now?

Ohhhhh now we're in reaction times now, are we?

None of them are on H'el's level then lol . Grail can just end them as well, with HER speed.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Vulcan actually suppressed Rachels TP before..he can Absorb Psionic energy as well.. do your proper Research...The Phoenix Force and Nate Grey are Superior Telepaths by far then Despero..Heck Moondragon has done what he's done(Enslave a planet)..Neither Xavier or Jean nor nate have ever Been able to Penetrate Apocalypse TP defense unaided...

Lol at research.

I've used both Vulcan and Absorbing Man in BZs (and I not only showed up to them, I actually completed them too).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ohhhhh now we're in reaction times now, are we?

None of them are on H'el's level then lol . Grail can just end them as well, with HER speed.



Lol at research.

I've used both Vulcan and Absorbing Man in BZs (and I not only showed up to them, I actually completed them too).

sure, but that's not relevant to the point


"Vulcan actually suppressed Rachels TP before..he can Absorb Psionic energy as well.. do your proper Research...The Phoenix Force and Nate Grey are Superior Telepaths by far then Despero..Heck Moondragon has done what he's done(Enslave a planet)..Neither Xavier or Jean nor nate have ever Been able to Penetrate Apocalypse TP defense unaided..."

Originally posted by Deadline
Alberto me and Darksaint suggested we change Brainiac for Zod, from what I hear about Brainiac he gives team DC an unfair advantage.

EDIT: However if you can make a case Alberto....

His case is that in his latest showings, Brainiac is not shown to be multiversal.

In HER latest showings, Hela was defeated by Angela in hell, Jane was a cancer patient, Doom has KINGPIN tanking his blasts, Vulcan is....MIA etc etc.

Yet, somehow, we are meant to ONLY take Brainiac at his latest appearance, but not the others.

MYSTERIOUS!

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
sure, but that's not relevant to the point


"Vulcan actually suppressed Rachels TP before..he can Absorb Psionic energy as well.. do your proper Research...The Phoenix Force and Nate Grey are Superior Telepaths by far then Despero..Heck Moondragon has done what he's done(Enslave a planet)..Neither Xavier or Jean nor nate have ever Been able to Penetrate Apocalypse TP defense unaided..."

He suppressed it by TK, shutting the electrical current to the brain.

http://i.imgur.com/3cRLykq.jpg

Not by being resistant to TP.

In fact, TP works just fine on him:
https://i.postimg.cc/67Vzw7cK/Uncanny-X-Men-Rise-and-Fall-of-the-Shi-ar-Empi.jpg


So maybe you should....do your research? Because you will have to show such a tactic works on Brainiac.

So You show HOW he overcomes it yet To YOU he still cant overcome it?

if you read the comic you would had known what happened next

https://i.postimg.cc/v1JHKsMv/pbol.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So You show HOW he overcomes it yet To YOU he still cant overcome it?

Because.....he's not human? And is a machine colony?

https://imgur.com/a/24QUJMP

Black Adam literally flies through his head. I don't think Rachel Grey, Moondragon, Xavier et al can regenerate from a Black Adam sized hole in their head, can they? Let alone multiple Shazam bolts?

IOW, what defeats a human with human level durability (especially their internals) wouldn't defeat...well, Brainiac.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
i thought vulcans reistant to tp?
He isn't. That's why he needed Oracle around. Dark posted the example I was talking about earlier, where mental attacks succeed. He breaks out later, but because they didn't actually try and finish him, so he AOE blasts the area and ko's them.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
"Vulcan actually suppressed Rachels TP before..

he can Absorb Psionic energy as well..
No, he didn't. She wasn't actually fighting him. She was just standing there and got jumped.

When did he absorb psionic energy?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
if you read the comic you would had known what happened next

https://i.postimg.cc/v1JHKsMv/pbol.jpg

You miss the point.

Inferior telepaths than Brainiac managed to get into his head and affect him, even for a second or two.

Brainiac, Despero, H'el are all far more powerful telepaths. And in some cases, faster.

And definitely more ruthless.

After Being attack by Multiple Assailants..He is then attacked by TWO Telepaths..

https://i.postimg.cc/LY0dWkzF/pfo.jpg

he just manipulates psychic energy the same way he does any other energy i mean his main enemy is x-men do you really think he does not know how to deal with telepaths lol

https://i.postimg.cc/Pp7cyXjt/wis.jpg

Within Moments He defeats them..

https://i.postimg.cc/MfRsY15D/wist.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You miss the point.

Inferior telepaths than Brainiac managed to get into his head and affect him, even for a second or two.

Brainiac, Despero, H'el are all far more powerful telepaths. And in some cases, faster.

And definitely more ruthless.

so you agree vulcan's resistant to TP then?

btw i am just throwing this out there to but apocalypse has the power to redirect telepathic attacks just saying lol

https://i.postimg.cc/7CZwQZp7/apc.jpg

is it possible for a telepath to affect him sure if they are sneaky enough but he deals with them on regular basis they are usually ineffective against him he crushed the xmen regularly same with apocalypse who has more and better telepaths then the x-men

and what do you mean "inferior" telepaths? .More superior then Rachel🤔..whose has a portion of the Phoenix force? What are H'el telepathic feats that make him superior to anyone? or Braniac, and Despero

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
so you agree vulcan's resistant to TP then?

btw i am just throwing this out there to but apocalypse has the power to redirect telepathic attacks just saying lol

https://i.postimg.cc/7CZwQZp7/apc.jpg

No, I do not. See Style's post.


Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
is it possible for a telepath to affect him sure if they are sneaky enough but he deals with them on regular basis they are usually ineffective against him he crushed the xmen regularly same with apocalypse who has more and better telepaths then the x-men

Again, Apoc does not have the TP feats Brainiac has. He doesn't even have the feats Hector Hammond has, and HE needed help to hack Brainiac.

Inferior telepaths, like those two who mindraped Vulcan lol. Can you even name two feats from them??

Cersei isn't below him. Fun fact about Marvel telepathy Darksaint: linking minds makes them exponentially stronger. Do you know what that means? If two telepaths with a power of ten link you don't get a power of twenty. You get a power of 100. Mind links are common in Marvel to boost telepathy. Vulcan can boost Cersie and Apoc just like he can shut them off. YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MARVEL TO DEBATE THIS!

you don't seem to understand the difference of "TP Feats and TP defenses" Apocalypse may not have the OFFENSIVE feats..but His Mind has always been damn near Impenetrable..hence Tp Defenses..You dont understand do you

https://i.postimg.cc/KknKmz8z/pvo.jpg


Inferior telepaths? In the Guard? This is the Galactic Shi'ar Empires personal guard. They've beaten the entire X squad quite a few times. Inferior?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
are you serious? she's the goddess of death, and loki's daughter And that makes her immune to getting transmuted into a pack of salt? Nah, I don't think so.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Cersei isn't below him. Fun fact about Marvel telepathy Darksaint: linking minds makes them exponentially stronger. Do you know what that means? If two telepaths with a power of ten link you don't get a power of twenty. You get a power of 100. Mind links are common in Marvel to boost telepathy. Vulcan can boost Cersie and Apoc just like he can shut them off. YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MARVEL TO DEBATE THIS!

you don't seem to understand the difference of "TP Feats and TP defenses" Apocalypse may not have the OFFENSIVE feats..but His Mind has always been damn near Impenetrable..hence Tp Defenses..You dont understand do you

https://i.postimg.cc/KknKmz8z/pvo.jpg


Inferior telepaths? In the Guard? This is the Galactic Shi'ar Empires personal guard. They've beaten the entire X squad quite a few times. Inferior?

Please post feats of these two telepaths, please. Educate me.

like You literally posted a feat of Vulcan overcoming telepathy as proof that he can't what lol

please, read dude.

Aside from Gladiator, the Guard has a revolving roster. One guard in specific may not have many feats. But if you've read X Men for thirty years, like I have, you just kind of know that there is a baseline level for the Guard and it's actually above X teams

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
like You literally posted a feat of Vulcan overcoming telepathy as proof that he can't what lol

please, read dude.

So no feats from them.

Yet, they managed to get into his head.

H'el has more and better feats than those two.

He is also FASTER than those two.

If THEY can get into his mind, what happens when a guy who's so fast the Flash, Supergirl, Superman etc isn't able to react to, gets in?

Does simple logic elude you?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Aside from Gladiator, the Guard has a revolving roster. One guard in specific may not have many feats. But if you've read X Men for thirty years, like I have, you just kind of know that there is a baseline level for the Guard and it's actually above X teams

So...zero feats from them, lol. Thanks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So no feats from them.

Yet, they managed to get into his head.

H'el has more and better feats than those two.

He is also FASTER than those two.

If THEY can get into his mind, what happens when a guy who's so fast the Flash, Supergirl, Superman etc isn't able to react to, gets in?

Does simple logic elude you?



So...zero feats from them, lol. Thanks.


Did you just equate H'els physical speed to telepathic speed?

Show H'el Using Telepathy on Non Kryptonians..🤔?....cause all he ever did was cast illusions and control an alternate Superboy..

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Did you just equate H'els physical speed to telepathic speed?

Show H'el Using Telepathy on Non Kryptonians..🤔?....cause all he ever did was cast illusions and control an alternate Superboy..

I am equating his processing speed, yes. His ability to think. He managed to outreact Flash with TK (which is also a power that...yup, originates in his mind). Is logic really this hard for you?

And why do I need to? That's as stupid as me asking you to show Hela's powers working on DC characters, lol. If you have something that shows H'el powers ONLY working on Kryptonians, then fine.

Otherwise, why stop there? He'l is powerless unless his opponents are Kryptonian, by your backwards logic, lol.

By the way Doom can summoun an army of mindless ones but bear in mind they are immune to TP because....they don't have minds. Heres some of their showings



https://imgur.com/a/3DUpNSj
https://i.imgur.com/sMCIjTZ.jpg?1

Took this team to make them flee.
https://i.imgur.com/RSn1cu4.jpg?1

Dr Strange can't hypnotize them

https://i.imgur.com/zpGscza.jpg?1

Three in 1 can't control them

https://i.imgur.com/Kk8St3R.jpg?1

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
After Being attack by Multiple Assailants..He is then attacked by TWO Telepaths..

https://i.postimg.cc/LY0dWkzF/pfo.jpg

he just manipulates psychic energy the same way he does any other energy i mean his main enemy is x-men do you really think he does not know how to deal with telepaths lol

Again, Nightshade and Oracle cast an illusion, then Mentor tried talking to him. It all worked, which Vulcan also admits. He didn't manipulate psychic energy anywhere here. They just didn't try shutting his powers or anything though, so he blasted the area. Imagine if Oracle just psi-bolted him and called it a day?

If you fired a gun at my feet to make me back off, but I knocked you out with a punch, it doesn't mean I'm bulletproof. It just means you didn't shoot me.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil

he just manipulates psychic energy the same way he does any other energy i mean his main enemy is x-men do you really think he does not know how to deal with telepaths lol

https://i.postimg.cc/Pp7cyXjt/wis.jpg


Xavier didnt have his telepathy during that encounter due to M-Day...

https://postimg.cc/wtt2cS6z

In fact, he was turned back into a regular human.

https://postimg.cc/bSY3bdrC
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
But if you've read X Men for thirty years, like I have
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MARVEL TO DEBATE THIS!


Which makes these comments ironic...

Let's chill out a bit yo.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MARVEL TO DEBATE THIS!

Lol I think DarkSaint is cheating on Carver now. Or is Alberto the replacement for his love.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Again, Nightshade and Oracle cast an illusion, then Mentor tried talking to him. It all worked, which Vulcan also admits. He didn't manipulate psychic energy anywhere here. They just didn't try shutting his powers or anything though, so he blasted the area. Imagine if Oracle just psi-bolted him and called it a day?

If you fired a gun at my feet to make me back off, but I knocked you out with a punch, it doesn't mean I'm bulletproof. It just means you didn't shoot me.


Xavier didnt have his telepathy during that encounter due to M-Day...

https://postimg.cc/wtt2cS6z

In fact, he was turned back into a regular human.

https://postimg.cc/bSY3bdrC



Which makes these comments ironic...

Let's chill out a bit yo.

.Regardless of What you misinterpreting lol,he overcame a Telepathic assault..yeah..OVERCAME..from Two telepaths while Fighting others..and this is Young Vulcan..not.even Emperor Vulcan(more experienced)..

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MARVEL TO DEBATE THIS!

Someone make me a sig.

the fact I'm hearing that Apocalypse isn't a heavy level telepath

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Lol let's not forget apocalypse is a very smart villain with shape shifting abilities
now marvel teams seems to have vulcan who would drain most of them
super skrull could go invisible are create force fields inside their bodies not to mentioned hell worry be busy with captain britian

Not smarter than Brainiac, that's for sure.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Black Adam literally flies through his head. I don't think Rachel Grey, Moondragon, Xavier et al can regenerate from a Black Adam sized hole in their head, can they? Let alone multiple Shazam bolts?

Xavier might.
https://postimg.cc/image/bjvrivom3/
https://postimg.cc/image/4gnw39qwb/

Rachel possibly too. She is, by common opponents, superior to Teen Jean. And Jean completely rebuilt her body psychically.
https://postimg.cc/gwkb5K6h
https://postimg.cc/KRBbgj21
https://postimg.cc/HrtCBNjH

No guarantees of course, but maybe. Doesn't affect this match of course though.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Inferior telepaths, like those two who mindraped Vulcan lol. Can you even name two feats from them??
Oracle is about the only other Guardsman worth anything. She sometimes is pretty threatening, punking an earlyTeen Jean for example. Other times, the Cuckoos bend her over.

Nightside, not so much. Maybe the new one will do more though.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
.Regardless of What you misinterpreting lol,he overcame a Telepathic assault..yeah..OVERCAME..from Two telepaths while Fighting others..and this is Young Vulcan..not.even Emperor Vulcan(more experienced)..
That happened right before he became Emporer, and he didn't overcome them through mental defense.

Additionally, Vulcan was amped during that time with the X-Men. Rachel separates Darwin, who merged with Vulcan, bestowing the powers of his forner squad in the process. Rachel got in his head just fine when she split them apart too.

https://postimg.cc/CRj0QYQ1
https://postimg.cc/qNf0wgQS

Vulcan then flew away, and it seemed like Emma could have mind****ed him had he stayed.

https://postimg.cc/87TXTSCs

I'm just not seeimg his tp defense. Especially since he needed Oracle in every subsequent arc, where he had no amp and didn't ambush.

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way Doom can summoun an army of mindless ones but bear in mind they are immune to TP because....they don't have minds. Heres some of their showings

https://imgur.com/a/3DUpNSj
https://i.imgur.com/sMCIjTZ.jpg?1

Took this team to make them flee.
https://i.imgur.com/RSn1cu4.jpg?1

Dr Strange can't hypnotize them

https://i.imgur.com/zpGscza.jpg?1

Three in 1 can't control them

https://i.imgur.com/Kk8St3R.jpg?1
This is a better strategy, assuming he could do it quickly enough. Comics are pretty consistent that having no mind is the best telepathy defense.

Although, Emma has affected robots before.
https://postimg.cc/mtgVnSpF
https://postimg.cc/SJ1VbzH1

Originally posted by Damborgson
Someone make me a sig.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
the fact I'm hearing that Apocalypse isn't a heavy level telepath Does Apoc's TP still work if he's a pile of salt? mmm

Originally posted by Deadline
By the way Doom can summoun an army of mindless ones but bear in mind they are immune to TP because....they don't have minds. Heres some of their showings

https://imgur.com/a/3DUpNSj
https://i.imgur.com/sMCIjTZ.jpg?1

Took this team to make them flee.
https://i.imgur.com/RSn1cu4.jpg?1

Dr Strange can't hypnotize them

https://i.imgur.com/zpGscza.jpg?1

Three in 1 can't control them

https://i.imgur.com/Kk8St3R.jpg?1
This is a better strategy, as comics are pretty consistent that having no mind is the best telepathy defense.

Although, Emma has interfaced with machines before.
https://postimg.cc/mtgVnSpF
https://postimg.cc/SJ1VbzH1

Originally posted by StyleTime
That happened right before he became Emporer, and he didn't overcome them through mental defense.

Additionally, Vulcan was amped during that time with the X-Men. Rachel separates Darwin, who merged with Vulcan, bestowing the powers of his forner squad in the process. Rachel got in his head just fine when she split them apart too.

https://postimg.cc/CRj0QYQ1
https://postimg.cc/qNf0wgQS

Vulcan then flew away, and it seemed like Emma could have mind****ed him had he stayed.

https://postimg.cc/87TXTSCs

I'm just not seeimg his tp defense. Especially since he needed Oracle in every subsequent arc, where he had no amp and didn't ambush.


This is a better strategy, assuming he could do it quickly enough. Comics are pretty consistent that having no mind is the best telepathy defense.

Although, Emma has affected robots before.
https://postimg.cc/mtgVnSpF
https://postimg.cc/SJ1VbzH1



really really not seeing it?

https://i.postimg.cc/CZbKnsRN/pu8m.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/WtN4trTG/ugb.jpg

apocalypse is for telepathic defense if you would read x-men he makes it very difficult for telepaths he can as i have shown redirect6 telepathic attacks and has negated the telepathy of beings far above the people you mentioned

Originally posted by StyleTime
Xavier might.
https://postimg.cc/image/bjvrivom3/
https://postimg.cc/image/4gnw39qwb/

Rachel possibly too. She is, by common opponents, superior to Teen Jean. And Jean completely rebuilt her body psychically.
https://postimg.cc/gwkb5K6h
https://postimg.cc/KRBbgj21
https://postimg.cc/HrtCBNjH

No guarantees of course, but maybe. Doesn't affect this match of course though.

Oracle is about the only other Guardsman worth anything. She sometimes is pretty threatening, punking an earlyTeen Jean for example. Other times, the Cuckoos bend her over.

Nightside, not so much. Maybe the new one will do more though.

Oracle didn't punk Teen Jean. One thing about Jean is, she may put on front to gauge the situation, but she ALWAYS has another plan in place to flip the tide. Teen Jean was confused as to why she was being kidnapped so she let her guard down and let them put her on trial so she understood why this was happening to her. As soon as the trial was over and the guard escorted her out, she knocked out pretty much the entire imperial guard on her own (minus Oracle & Gladiator because they weren't there). Then she went toe to toe with Gladiator and knocked this nigga on his tail TWICE! And he has gone up with all kind of heavy hitters. Oracle even tried to intervene after the first time he got knocked on his butt and talk to TJ in her mind space, but TJ forced her out and went after Gladiator again.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
apocalypse is for telepathic defense if you would read x-men he makes it very difficult for telepaths he can as i have shown redirect6 telepathic attacks and has negated the telepathy of beings far above the people you mentioned

Despero or Brainiac would crush Apocalypse in TP, though.

Alberto, your great arguments convinced me, team Marvel gets turned into salt

Ares solos

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Despero or Brainiac would crush Apocalypse in TP, though.

You sure that Despero is > Xavier. Brainiac sounds dangerous though, how did they beat him?

Originally posted by StyleTime
This is a better strategy, as comics are pretty consistent that having no mind is the best telepathy defense.

Although, Emma has interfaced with machines before.
https://postimg.cc/mtgVnSpF
https://postimg.cc/SJ1VbzH1

Not sure what your point is. A machine isn't a mindless ones, for examples machines have electrcity that makes it work so to a lesser degree does the human body. There is actually some similarity between how a CPU works and how a brain works they both use electrical signals to convey information.

Also in Marvel it seems that psionic energy is just a form of electromagnetic energy. Magneto has also been able to use his magentic powers to effect TP.

Originally posted by Deadline
Not sure what your point is. A machine isn't a mindless ones, for examples machines have electrcity that makes it work so to a lesser degree does the human body. There is actually some similarity between how a CPU works and how a brain works they both use electrical signals to convey information.

Also in Marvel it seems that psionic energy is just a form of electromagnetic energy. Magneto has also been able to use his magentic powers to effect TP.

Mindless Ones....a nice rich source of energy for Parasite.

Not to mention:

http://i.imgur.com/wLcC5Wb.jpg

H'El teleported Kara from Earth, to the Sun, and back again. And was doing it instantly.

Plus Raven etc.

As for Despero being > Xavier, I wouldn't say that.

I WOULD say that Despero is >> ....what's her name? Nightside? And Oracle? Yeah. And THOSE two managed to get into Vulcan, imagine what Despero could do.

As for EM energy.....imagine if DC had.....a lightning user...a BLACK lightning user....

But surely he has his hands full with Vulcan!

But Vulcan is being mind-controlled by Despero.

So now, the TPers on Marvel's side have to contend with Vulcan AND BL. Whilst Parasite is draining, maybe. Or H'El is sending them to the Sun.

Or Luthor is sending them through time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mindless Ones....a nice rich source of energy for Parasite.

Not to mention:

http://i.imgur.com/wLcC5Wb.jpg

H'El teleported Kara from Earth, to the Sun, and back again. And was doing it instantly.

Plus Raven etc.

As for Despero being > Xavier, I wouldn't say that.

I WOULD say that Despero is >> ....what's her name? Nightside? And Oracle? Yeah. And THOSE two managed to get into Vulcan, imagine what Despero could do.

As for EM energy.....imagine if DC had.....a lightning user...a BLACK lightning user....

But surely he has his hands full with Vulcan!

But Vulcan is being mind-controlled by Despero.

So now, the TPers on Marvel's side have to contend with Vulcan AND BL. Whilst Parasite is draining, maybe. Or H'El is sending them to the Sun.

Or Luthor is sending them through time.

can you show current luthor doing any of those?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mindless Ones....a nice rich source of energy for Parasite.


That's up for debate because they're magical creatures can Parasite absorb magic? Also bare in mind that they don't need to engage him physicaly they can fire optic blasts which are probably magic in nature.

You also pointed out that Parasite has a lmiit to how much he can absorb and he has touch them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Parasite LITERALLY explaining how his powers work. By touch.

https://i.postimg.cc/QVGR2P99/RCO007-1469389979.jpg

What was the starting distance again? Lol.


First of all Parasite is not going to be able to absorb alll this:

https://imgur.com/a/pOk4wDO

In other words thats what it took to defeat them. Bare in mind I showed scans of a group of Mindless ones defeating this team in seconds.

https://imgur.com/a/3DUpNSj

Note that Ares, Captain Marvel and Wonder Man are there. Extremis Iron Man wasn't there but we can assume if he was he would have been defeated also. Parasite will be quickly overwhelmed and will not be able to absorb them all. Bare in mind when you say his powers work by touch I think you mean if somebody is punching him in the back of the head he's not absorbing them, he has to touch them with his hand.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Not to mention:

http://i.imgur.com/wLcC5Wb.jpg

H'El teleported Kara from Earth, to the Sun, and back again. And was doing it instantly.

Plus Raven etc.


Ok good point but I don't think he's going to start off like that. This seems to me like the Flash FTL argument. It's a viable option but he's not going to use it straight away and those characters who can create forcefields would have done it by then. Can't comment on Raven.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

As for Despero being > Xavier, I wouldn't say that.

I WOULD say that Despero is >> ....what's her name? Nightside? And Oracle? Yeah. And THOSE two managed to get into Vulcan, imagine what Despero could do.

As for EM energy.....imagine if DC had.....a lightning user...a BLACK lightning user....

But surely he has his hands full with Vulcan!

But Vulcan is being mind-controlled by Despero.

So now, the TPers on Marvel's side have to contend with Vulcan AND BL. Whilst Parasite is draining, maybe. Or H'El is sending them to the Sun.

Or Luthor is sending them through time.

Nah Parasite is done for he will be quickly overwhelmed and so will the weaker members of the team. BL gone. Starfire, gone. Oceanmaster gone. Superboy gone. Mon el, gone.

You're also assuming that BL is gonna link up with Vulcan straight away they've never met each other and they're not team mates. So they most likely will fight indivdualy but BL won't be around long enough to do that.

You're also forgetting that not every one is going to be mindcontrolled. I'm saying Doom won't because he's consistently shown to have strong will and is now a contender for sorcerer supreme. Hela obvioulsy. Female Thor won't because male Thor has shruged off mind control from Phoenix possessed Emma easily and female Thor is supposed to be more powerful. Apocalypse because he's shown > Xavier in willpower.

There is a grey area with Nova and Sersi. Nova is connected to a supercomputer called the Worldmind which analyzes attacks it will know that Despero is attempting to control him but wether it will be able to do something I'm not sure.

Sersi can't just manipulate cosmic energy but has strong psionic abilities.

http://i.imgur.com/ZBZUQhP.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ch4HmDX.jpg

Somebody is going to know that Despero is using mind control and he's going to be first priority to be taken out. I think Hela will go for him, also bare in mind that Doom was able to seriously stun Sentry with one incantation, this was uner Bendis and it seems Bendis wrote him to be subskyfather level.

Dunno how they're gonna deal with Luthor maybe show us what he can do.

EDIT: I'm also willing to gamble that Beta Ray Bill could resist Despero in the sense that he similar to Thor in powerset and concept and could do what Thor did with Emma. Really hope that Hyperion could to but....

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
really really not seeing it?

https://i.postimg.cc/CZbKnsRN/pu8m.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/WtN4trTG/ugb.jpg
She is already powerless there, so it's not an example of TP defense.

We already saw her affect him just fine when she separated Darwin from him, removing his amp. I posted this above.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Oracle didn't punk Teen Jean. One thing about Jean is, she may put on front to gauge the situation, but she ALWAYS has another plan in place to flip the tide. Teen Jean was confused as to why she was being kidnapped so she let her guard down and let them put her on trial so she understood why this was happening to her. As soon as the trial was over and the guard escorted her out, she knocked out pretty much the entire imperial guard on her own (minus Oracle & Gladiator because they weren't there). Then she went toe to toe with Gladiator and knocked this nigga on his tail TWICE! And he has gone up with all kind of heavy hitters. Oracle even tried to intervene after the first time he got knocked on his butt and talk to TJ in her mind space, but TJ forced her out and went after Gladiator again.
Was trying to throw Oracle a bone. TJ just developed that new amping ability and hadn't yet gotten beyond Oracle. This was actually helping your case, but feel free to toss it out yo. Dark is right about basically everything he's saying tbh.
Originally posted by Deadline

Not sure what your point is. A machine isn't a mindless ones, for examples machines have electrcity that makes it work so to a lesser degree does the human body. There is actually some similarity between how a CPU works and how a brain works they both use electrical signals to convey information.

Also in Marvel it seems that psionic energy is just a form of electromagnetic energy. Magneto has also been able to use his magentic powers to effect TP.
It was a joke, hence the shifty eyes.

It's not usually depicted that way.

Originally posted by StyleTime


It was a joke, hence the shifty eyes.

It's not usually depicted that way.

Yeah I suspected that.

EDIT: Not sure if the whole thing has been shown but this looks like TP resistance to me.

https://imgur.com/a/N0wF8#0

didn't want to join this debating since i'm not familiar with marvel,but i must say parasite indeed implied he could absorb magic,like in new krypton tie-in,he trying to absorbing general lane's magical satellite's source or trying to(at least been tempted wtih) absorbing zatara's magical power
parasite trying to access and absoring magical satellite's source power
https://i.imgur.com/cmTDSRk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fwtjVAB.jpg
tempted by zatara's magical power and trying to drain him
https://i.imgur.com/OP3WukG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4qykNSw.jpg

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
didn't want to join this debating since i'm not familiar with marvel,but i must say parasite indeed implied he could absorb magic,like in new krypton tie-in,he trying to absorbing general lane's magical satellite's source or trying to(at least been tempted wtih) absorbing zatara's magical power
parasite trying to access and absoring magical satellite's source power
https://i.imgur.com/cmTDSRk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fwtjVAB.jpg
tempted by zatara's magical power and trying to drain him
https://i.imgur.com/OP3WukG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4qykNSw.jpg

Yea but what version of Parasite is it? As far as I'm aware the nu-52 Parasite is different.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but what version of Parasite is it? As far as I'm aware the nu-52 Parasite is different. pre-flashpoint,new52 in my recall not mentioned parasite could absorbing magic,but i reading new52/rebirth comics not as much as i reading post-crisis comics

Just some points.

N52 Parasite was absorbing Wonder Woman. Who's magic.

Current Luthor did it in JL....3? 2? Not got WiFi. I've shown this to you before Alberto.

Parasite has also absorbed the energy attacks of Diablo, who's also magic.

As for overloading, he wasn't overloaded by Barry and the Speed Force and Hal with his willpower.

Relying on Thor isn't great, tbh. Honest John made him his *****, lol. Hal et al ALL have similar resistance feats, but Despero doesn't care.

Originally posted by Deadline
You sure that Despero is > Xavier. Brainiac sounds dangerous though, how did they beat him?



Not sure what your point is. A machine isn't a mindless ones, for examples machines have electrcity that makes it work so to a lesser degree does the human body. There is actually some similarity between how a CPU works and how a brain works they both use electrical signals to convey information.

Also in Marvel it seems that psionic energy is just a form of electromagnetic energy. Magneto has also been able to use his magentic powers to effect TP.

Despero in his prime is. He owned MM and Aquaman at the same time.

Let Parasite try to Absorb/Drain if he wants.

https://i.postimg.cc/jDHjsLhm/pok.jpg

Terrax Splitting His Wig..
https://i.postimg.cc/qtBp4Qq6/mjl.jpg

Black bolt will burst parasite .lol..
And through his electron manipulation he can prevent himself and his team from absorption / power canceling ..

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Let Parasite try to Absorb/Drain if he wants.

https://i.postimg.cc/jDHjsLhm/pok.jpg

Terrax Splitting His Wig..
https://i.postimg.cc/qtBp4Qq6/mjl.jpg

Black bolt will burst parasite .lol..
And through his electron manipulation he can prevent himself and his team from absorption / power canceling ..

You do know Parasite absorbs the limitless energy that is the Speed Force from Barry and was still hungry right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just some points.

N52 Parasite was absorbing Wonder Woman. Who's magic.

Current Luthor did it in JL....3? 2? Not got WiFi. I've shown this to you before Alberto.

Parasite has also absorbed the energy attacks of Diablo, who's also magic.

As for overloading, he wasn't overloaded by Barry and the Speed Force and Hal with his willpower.

Ok man but I thought you said he had limits. I still don't think he can absorb them all because he can't absorb a punch to the face. In other words he's going to get rushed, he can absorb 1,2, 3 or 4 but hes going to get overwhelmed and Koed and killed. The Mighty Avengers team had people with superhuman strength and speed and they weren't fast enough to stop them.

Also the teams that did manage to beat The Mindless Ones >>>>> Flash or Hal. No to mention that people aren't just going to just stand there and let him absorb them all Hela can cast illusions, Doom can switch bodies people can punch him in the face.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Relying on Thor isn't great, tbh. Honest John made him his *****, lol. Hal et al ALL have similar resistance feats, but Despero doesn't care.

I can still use Thor because he's probably got tons of good willpower feats like

https://photobucket.com/gallery/user/OneDumbG0/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyNjE2NDkzMQ==/?ref=

What now so Despero > classic Dr Strange? I don't think so somehow. If you're refering to recent feats they don't count because we know that Thor is going through this rubbish because he's a straight white male and whats worse is that he has blonde hair and blue eyes. Neither BRB or Jane Thor are straight while males so that doesn't count.

The botton line is that you said he isn't > Xavier if he isn't then he's defintely not controlling Doom, Apoc or Hela and since Thor has been shown to resist mental ttacks from people who are superior to Xavier then theres no guarantee that he's going to control Jane Thor or BRB.

By the way Vulcan did show TP resistance here

https://imgur.com/a/N0wF8#0

Eventhough they're not as powerful as Despero from what I understand it was a younger Vulcan and it didn't take long for him to break the control.

Also if Despero is so powerful how is he beaten? At some point somebody must have resisted his control.

It took the entire JLA/JSA to defeat Despero at his best. See Virtue and Vice. He's kinda a joke nowadays.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
It took the entire JLA/JSA to defeat Despero at his best. See Virtue and Vice.


We take average showings.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

He's kinda a joke nowadays.


Which means for the most part hes a joke in this thread. Team Marvel FTW.



Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Parasite absorbs the limitless energy that is the Speed Force from Barry and was still hungry right?

An axe to the head isn't an energy source.

Originally posted by Deadline
We take average showings.




Which means for the most part hes a joke in this thread. Team Marvel FTW.





An axe to the head isn't an energy source.

If we take current feats/incarnations, Team DC, then. Nobody can take True Brainiac down. He's a multiversal threat.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
If we take current feats/incarnations, Team DC, then. Nobody can take True Brainiac down. He's a multiversal threat.

That why me and DS suggested to replace him for Zod it just isn't fair. It not even neccesarily current incarnations it's feats as a whole, if most of a persons recent feats are very good then he is good.

Yeah, but you STILL got Shaggy Man (A being who will just adapt to ANY attack), H'el (Nobody on Marvel side to balance him out), Kyle (who can access all the corps power), and Ares (high Skyfather). It's kind of a stomp in DC's favor.

Plus, Snyder brought back Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor, who is a good match for Dr. Doom.

facepalm I'm calling it a day I'll have to try and think of something tommorrow.

@styletime, no he is the one who shut her powers down and he is the one that was keeping her powers shut down

https://i.postimg.cc/w7q1wjWc/pho.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/XrXp0D6r/fbas.jpg

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Yeah, but you STILL got Shaggy Man (A being who will just adapt to ANY attack),


Aquaman has beaten him using BFR via teleportation. Apoc can teleport him or any other person with teleportation.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

H'el (Nobody on Marvel side to balance him out),


I think it could end up with H'el versus 2 guys or three, for example could he beat Jane Thor, Vulcan and Apoc at the same time?

Originally posted by Senor Cage

Kyle (who can access all the corps power),



You might have to clarify what you mean exactly as far as I'm aware Nova can do the same with the Nova corps but for how long I don't know.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

and Ares (high Skyfather). It's kind of a stomp in DC's favor.


Don't you mean just skyfather leve? In other words as powerful as Odin. Well Hela is at laset subskyfather and if she teams up with Doom maybe they can beat Ares. Doom has been contender for Sorcerer Supreme and we know how powerful some of the people Dr Strange has beaten.


Originally posted by Senor Cage


Plus, Snyder brought back Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor, who is a good match for Dr. Doom.

I think Doom will beat Lex. Doom has too many options, he doesn't just have advanced tech but magic and psionic powers. He could use his ovoid body swapping technique to switch bodies and take out Lex while he is figuring out what's going on.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
@styletime, no he is the one who shut her powers down and he is the one that was keeping her powers shut down

https://i.postimg.cc/w7q1wjWc/pho.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/XrXp0D6r/fbas.jpg
Her powers are still off because of the ambush from earlier. Still no showing of telepathy defense here.

And, again, he was amped this whole story arc anyway.
https://postimg.cc/7Jqz0Zmm

Rachel's telepathy worked fine once she recovered and removed his amp.

https://postimg.cc/CRj0QYQ1
https://postimg.cc/qNf0wgQS

This may explain why he's never replicated this feat ever again.

Originally posted by Deadline

By the way Vulcan did show TP resistance here

https://imgur.com/a/N0wF8#0

We covered that on the last two or three pages.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Her powers are still off because of the ambush from earlier. Still no showing of telepathy defense here.

And, again, he was amped this whole story arc anyway.
https://postimg.cc/7Jqz0Zmm

Rachel's telepathy worked fine once she recovered and removed his amp.

https://postimg.cc/CRj0QYQ1
https://postimg.cc/qNf0wgQS

This may explain why he's never replicated this feat ever again.



We covered that on the last two or three pages.

no they are not still off because of the ambush earlier read the story instead of just a scan here a scan there he let her have a little back just long enough to trace Xavier she thought it was because he is still getting used to his power but it was all part of his plan

https://i.postimg.cc/Jtck0q6m/uj.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/rKfRCp2P/xv.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/06DN3khx/pb.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok man but I thought you said he had limits. I still don't think he can absorb them all because he can't absorb a punch to the face. In other words he's going to get rushed, he can absorb 1,2, 3 or 4 but hes going to get overwhelmed and Koed and killed. The Mighty Avengers team had people with superhuman strength and speed and they weren't fast enough to stop them.

Right, now that I am back, I can give you the attention you deserve.

Depends on who we use. n52 Parasite (as in the latest versions), was absorbing Hal 'Willpower' Jordan, Barry 'Speedforce' Allen, Wonder 'God of War' Woman, and Batman at once. Yes, he was also overloaded by Damage, so yes, he has limits. But don't forget, there are a fair few people on Team Marvel present.

If using pre-52 Parasite (as in the pic), then he can DEFINITELY absorb punches to the face. He can even 'speed steal', in a fashion:
https://i.imgur.com/DusGafC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xFpB5yQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HxWPZEe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fO0voxt.jpg

KO and killed?
https://i.imgur.com/FiOLr9X.jpg

Even when he's unconscious he can still pull energy:
https://i.imgur.com/TUiG5Qy.jpg


Yes, but Blade and Spitfire also fought Mindless Ones:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36135/3823662-0512242527-Blade.jpg

Parasite is pretty fast himself. He DOES fight a certain speedy guy, after all. He doesn't just slowly stand there draining.


But Jane/BRB aren't Thor, any more than I can use Hal Jordan feats for Kyle (also using GL rings) or Superman feats for Supergirl (Kryptonian), or Captain Marvel feats for Black Adam (Wizard Shazam) etc etc.


Despero is > Oracle and Mentor. You don't have to be Dr Strange level to mess with Vulcan's head.


No, Despero ALONE isnt, but with Brainiac and H'el helping? And now Doom, Apoc and Hela have to not only deal with Team DC, but ALSO, Klaw, BB, Nova, Iron Man, Sersi, Cap Britain, Creel, Human Torch, Hyperion, Super Skrull, Ronan, Terrax and the Mighty Klaw?? That's ignoring BRB and Jane, btw, who unless we are shown feats, we cannot just share them. Otherwise, Superman's feats are being used, Hal, etc.

After all, that's precisely what Despero's MO is. He mindcontrols teams and makes them fight each other. And now he has a ton of help.


It didn't take long, no. But these three TOGETHER (Despero, Brainiac and H'el) are far faster, powerful, and ruthless than those two.

A couple more points:

'Mindless Ones' are just begging for Firestorm to turn them all into salt, tbh. He can cut loose because they aren't sentient.

And one more thing:



So you say H'el and the other speedsters WON'T use their speed (even though they have plenty of showings doing so, and plenty in terms of proportions - H'el only appeared for like one storyline, for example, and he used his speed VERY consistently), and that H'el WOULDN'T use his size shrinking, or teleportation to the Sun etc....but now suddenly Doom is Ovoid mind swapping etc? Hmm.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
no they are not still off because of the ambush earlier read the story instead of just a scan here a scan there he let her have a little back just long enough to trace Xavier she thought it was because he is still getting used to his power but it was all part of his plan

https://i.postimg.cc/Jtck0q6m/uj.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/rKfRCp2P/xv.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/06DN3khx/pb.jpg
She's compromised before the scene starts though, even if he allows some minor use eventually. Cyclops is literally telling her what happened during the ambush. There's no tp defense here.

Not to mention, this is all likely irrelevant since he isn't amped anymore.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
read the story instead of just a scan here a scan there
Well, you are Maestro Marvel after all. How could any of us hope to compete?

Originally posted by StyleTime
She's compromised before the scene starts though, even if he allows some minor use eventually. Cyclops is literally telling her what happened during the ambush. There's no tp defense here.

Not to mention, this is all likely irrelevant since he isn't amped anymore.

Well, you are Maestro Marvel after all. How could any of us hope to compete?

how is casually shutting down someone tp and keeping it shut down at will from distance by altering the electrical currents in there brain not tp defense?

Style knows nothing of Marvel, even less of telepaths.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Right, now that I am back, I can give you the attention you deserve.

Depends on who we use. n52 Parasite (as in the latest versions), was absorbing Hal 'Willpower' Jordan, Barry 'Speedforce' Allen, Wonder 'God of War' Woman, and Batman at once. Yes, he was also overloaded by Damage, so yes, he has limits. But don't forget, there are a fair few people on Team Marvel present.

If using pre-52 Parasite (as in the pic), then he can DEFINITELY absorb punches to the face. He can even 'speed steal', in a fashion:
https://i.imgur.com/DusGafC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xFpB5yQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HxWPZEe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fO0voxt.jpg

KO and killed?
https://i.imgur.com/FiOLr9X.jpg

Even when he's unconscious he can still pull energy:
https://i.imgur.com/TUiG5Qy.jpg




Yea but theres no reason for us to think it's pre-crisis Parasite. It looks to me like Alberto just got some random pic on the net. He's not thinking about that so we assume current versions.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but Blade and Spitfire also fought Mindless Ones:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36135/3823662-0512242527-Blade.jpg


Like all characters not all showings are going to be awesome. For example I think sometimes they can just turn up randomly and they're not neccessarily much of a threat. However these mindless ones were conjured up and directed by Doom and we saw what they did so we can ssume they're on the highier end of the spectrum.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Parasite is pretty fast himself. He DOES fight a certain speedy guy, after all. He doesn't just slowly stand there draining.


I think it's fair to assume that it's current Parasite think you're reading too much into the pic.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But Jane/BRB aren't Thor, any more than I can use Hal Jordan feats for Kyle (also using GL rings) or Superman feats for Supergirl (Kryptonian), or Captain Marvel feats for Black Adam (Wizard Shazam) etc etc.


That depends though if you don't have feats what you can do is extrapolate and figure out what the most likely conclusion is. We know that Jane Thor is supposed to be > Thor and we know that in order to lift the hammer you need to have certain attributes one of them being a strong will. If a green lantern turns up and we know that this lantern is more powerful than Hal even if he doesn't have any will power feats we can assume his will is sronger.

Now I don't know about BRB but as far as I'm aware BRB is supposed to be = Thor, for starters I think it's stated that Stormbreaker is = Mjolinor.

At any rate I'm willing to compromise on BRB but not Jane Thor, not because I like the character or anything but it just seems to me that was her whole thing she was supposed to be greater than male Thor. I also think if you're were pushed on this question and you had to guess I think you would agree more likely than not that she would have a stronger will.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Despero is > Oracle and Mentor. You don't have to be Dr Strange level to mess with Vulcan's head.


No but I think Alberto pointed out that this was a younger Vulcan.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, Despero ALONE isnt, but with Brainiac and H'el helping? And now Doom, Apoc and Hela have to not only deal with Team DC, but ALSO, Klaw, BB, Nova, Iron Man, Sersi, Cap Britain, Creel, Human Torch, Hyperion, Super Skrull, Ronan, Terrax and the Mighty Klaw?? That's ignoring BRB and Jane, btw, who unless we are shown feats, we cannot just share them. Otherwise, Superman's feats are being used, Hal, etc.


Yea but lets add Sersi to the list because she can do THIS.

http://i.imgur.com/Ch4HmDX.jpg

It's not a willpower feat but we know that she has to be a high level psion to do that and to be a high level psion you have to have a strong will by default.

Also she had a psionic battle with Exodus if you look at the scans you can see Exodus attacking her mind.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_05a.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_07a.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_07b.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_08b.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_11a.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_11b.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/202...07_12a.jpg.html

It looks like a stalemate to me Sersi was temporarily stunned and would have got back into a fight but Exodus flew off, the bottom line is that both hit something that exploded which clearly contributed to her being stunned not a lack of willpower. Dane also said something about having a calming effect on her I think it had something to do with them having a mental link, making somebody calm in a fight I don't think is going to help.

This is what Xavier said about Exodus.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20220758/Avengers_v1_369_-_part_5_23.jpg.html


Even if that happens it's not entirely over. Doom can summoun mindless ones to engage them and Sersi can cast illusions and can free people from imindcontrol.

http://i.imgur.com/ZBZUQhP.png

I'm sure Hela has some tricks up her sleeve. I suspect that Hela could realize were the source is coming from and one-shot him.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
After all, that's precisely what Despero's MO is. He mindcontrols teams and makes them fight each other. And now he has a ton of help.


Are you even sure that nu52 Despero can mindcontrol them? Apparently Atomica has resisted his TP and so has Martian Manhunter and I don't think MM> Xavier either. If you're talking about illusions then maybe but Sersi can cast illusions to.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It didn't take long, no. But these three TOGETHER (Despero, Brainiac and H'el) are far faster, powerful, and ruthless than those two.


We agreed no Brainiac. As stated earlier they will have to deal with mindless ones and illusions.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A couple more points:

'Mindless Ones' are just begging for Firestorm to turn them all into salt, tbh. He can cut loose because they aren't sentient.


Is he going to do that though? It looks to me like he'll just try to enegage them normally and by the time he realizes whats going on it will be too late. Captain Marvel doesn't have transmutation skills but she does have AOE attacks. Wonder Man has superhuman reflexes he thought everything was going to be fine....

Doom could also one-shot him with an incantation anyway.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And one more thing:



So you say H'el and the other speedsters WON'T use their speed (even though they have plenty of showings doing so, and plenty in terms of proportions - H'el only appeared for like one storyline, for example, and he used his speed VERY consistently), and that H'el WOULDN'T use his size shrinking, or teleportation to the Sun etc....but now suddenly Doom is Ovoid mind swapping etc? Hmm.

Nope never said that, what I'm saying is that they tend not use it straight away. For example everybody keeps talking about The Flash and his FTL he rarely does that in the JLA unless he really needs to eg when fighting a speedster white martian. Apart from that he's usually at normal speedster levels.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
how is casually shutting down someone tp and keeping it shut down at will from distance by altering the electrical currents in there brain not tp defense?
She's still under the effects of the original attack in the cave, which is why he can control her now. Without that initial ambush, he wouldn't be able to do that. She never actually attacked him telepathically, so there's no defense involved. He simply struck first.
Again, Rachel's telepathy worked just fine later, despite his amp.

Here is what TP defense looks like. Fantomex's is tech based, but it blocks Irma despite her already having a mental link with him.

https://postimg.cc/LJyQThWS
https://postimg.cc/0bs45TST
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Style knows nothing of Marvel, even less of telepaths.


We are all like ignorant children in the presence of Maestro Marvel.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but theres no reason for us to think it's pre-crisis Parasite. It looks to me like Alberto just got some random pic on the net. He's not thinking about that so we assume current versions.
Then current Parasite has drained WW multiple times, Diablo etc. He can do magic just fine.


That's based on nothing, frankly. Unless you have proof otherwise.


Where does it say one needs a strong will? Only if they are worthy. Which can mean anything. Mon El has almost no feats, but Daxamites =Kryptonite, so I am going to give him Superman's feats. You cannot just make things up. If they have no feats, then.....They have no feats, period.


No.


If pushed, I'd say no she doesn't. Because she has no feats to suggest she does.


With an amp. A younger Vulcan, with an amp. Rachel mind blasted him just fine.

Point still remains. Despero is > Mento and Oracle, let alone Despero+Brain is +Hel.



Lol all your scans show is Sersi being attacked, that attack being effective, and Exodus running off. Which obviously won't happen in a forum fight.

So thanks, you've just proven Sersi would get mind picked here.

So you're giving one side all their tricks....But DC won't do things because they don't usually do it. Lol.



Lol. Yes, I am sure. But look at how you're willing to give one side the benefit of the doubt despite ZERO showings, and then the DC side.....Has to prove every single item (to the extent that one of the most powerful telepaths in DC has to prove he can...Use mind control.


Alberto, the OP, didn't. So..... brainiac is still present.


Is Hela going to dip into her bag of tricks? Is doom mind swapping? Summoning Mindless ones? Etc etc.



Forum rules. Also, what is normal speedster levels??

Originally posted by Deadline
Aquaman has beaten him using BFR via teleportation. Apoc can teleport him or any other person with teleportation.



I think it could end up with H'el versus 2 guys or three, for example could he beat Jane Thor, Vulcan and Apoc at the same time?



You might have to clarify what you mean exactly as far as I'm aware Nova can do the same with the Nova corps but for how long I don't know.



Don't you mean just skyfather leve? In other words as powerful as Odin. Well Hela is at laset subskyfather and if she teams up with Doom maybe they can beat Ares. Doom has been contender for Sorcerer Supreme and we know how powerful some of the people Dr Strange has beaten.




I think Doom will beat Lex. Doom has too many options, he doesn't just have advanced tech but magic and psionic powers. He could use his ovoid body swapping technique to switch bodies and take out Lex while he is figuring out what's going on.

And someone like Ares or H'el can teleport him right back.

H'el fought and beaten the Superman family at once. It would have to be a pretty powerful 2-3 members.

Kyle can access any of the Emotional spectrum (Red, Orange, White, Green,etc..). He's beyond top tier, IMO.

Depends on which Ares. Ares was the God of War, along with being a Death god. He's the only skyfather level opponent on both sides.

Lex has a friggen Imp as resources. That trumps anything Doom has. Like I said, you don't want to mess with current Lex. He has five out of the 7 forces in the universe, along with a crap load of resources at his call.

Originally posted by Deadline

No but I think Alberto pointed out that this was a younger Vulcan.

Alberto is mistaken. Vulcan became emporer like what... a week? A month absolute tops? after fighting the Imperial Guard. I mean, yeah, technically we age every second. So each new second is an older you, but Vulcan isn't older in any meaningful way. He certainly didn't gain any skills during that time.

All that stuff is the current Vulcan we're all familiar with. He never lived up to his forum hype.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85




That's based on nothing, frankly. Unless you have proof otherwise.


No it isn't, the problem is that they're two different situations. With Doom it is a controlled and focused attack with a portal opening with mindless ones who are there to specifically destroy the team. If you read the context of the story were you got those scans that was a random attack of mindless ones who were roaming around and who just happened to bump into Spitefire and Blade.....and they ran. If they had stayed behind they would have died. Bare in mind Spitfire is a vampire speedster, so not only does she has speedster speeds she has superhumans trength and claws.

You should see what happens later on in that arc where they have to stay and fight Plokta. Blade and Spitfire get joined by other team members and Plokta states that he needs just to summoun a 'few' mindless ones to keep them busy, which is exactly what they do and in this case they couldn't run and had to stay and fight. Plokta was just toying with them if he wanted to do what Doom did and sent in overwhelming force he could have killed them instantly. So the only reason why Blade and Spitfire survived is essentially because they ran

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Where does it say one needs a strong will? Only if they are worthy. Which can mean anything. Mon El has almost no feats, but Daxamites =Kryptonite, so I am going to give him Superman's feats. You cannot just make things up. If they have no feats, then.....They have no feats, period.


No.


If pushed, I'd say no she doesn't. Because she has no feats to suggest she does.



Yeah your right on this issue I'm simply saying that sometimes if you have no feats you can guess what the likely conclusion is however since Despero has good feats mindcontrolling people with strongwill it would be unfair to give BRB and Jane Thor the benefit of the doubt. The question though is which Despero are we talking about?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

With an amp. A younger Vulcan, with an amp. Rachel mind blasted him just fine.

Point still remains. Despero is > Mento and Oracle, let alone Despero+Brain is +Hel.




I'm gonna be honest with you I'm not sure if that's the case. Here's the thing Nu52 Despero doesn't have any feats mindcontrolling a super team really. He's messed up Firestorm who was a rookie, Element Girl and couldn't fully TP a female Atom because she was small. Now the problem here is this....MM is below Xavier and MM stomped Despero. MM stated the only reason why Despero gave the JLA trouble before was because he was holding back and fighting with JLA rules, he wasn't using JLA rules that time so he got stomped.

The other exampels of Despero using mindcontrol is as far as I'm aware are on an unexpecting JLA. To be precise he used illusions to mess with their heads. The problem is that Captain Britain has resisted a similar attack from Plokta a being who is a duke of hell who can warp reality. Oh and Plokta created The Mindless Ones, so I'm thinking Plokta >>> Despero. Also this

https://photobucket.com/gallery/user/llagrok/media/ cGF0aDpDYXB0YWluIEJyaXRhaW4gcmVzcGVjdCB0aHJlYWQvTW
lzYy9UZWNoNi5qcGc=/?ref=

Captain Britain already has a strong will plus a suit that blocks out TP attacks.

The only example I know of Despero getting people to fight each other is with ordinary Thanagrians not super teams. Nu52 Desperos MO is to use TP on his opponents to read their minds and give them illusions that mess with their head but has done it against an unexpecting JLA. So are you sure that Despero can use his illusions against Vulcan who has resisted a similar attack and is ready for it? Bare in mind MM stomped him in a proper fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Lol all your scans show is Sersi being attacked, that attack being effective, and Exodus running off. Which obviously won't happen in a forum fight.

So thanks, you've just proven Sersi would get mind picked here.


With all dues respect you need to take another look. What the scans show is Sersi stalemating Exodus in a TP battle, she was doing fine and stated that she could fight him forever. War Machine talks about the sparks they were given off and was concerned that they were near a bus and it would cause an explosion, and that's exactly what happens. Due to the fact she was perfectly fine fighting him with TP its the explosion that caused her to get stunned not Exodus. Bare in mind that scans don't show everything. For example after this.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20220954/X-MEN307_08b.jpg.html

The scene moves we see Black Widow giving a speech to politcians and then we move to another scene were the X-men are trying to stop people from killing each other and having conversations. Then we move here.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20220955/X-MEN307_11a.jpg.html

So Sersi and Exodus were fighting for a good while and she was perfectly fine until the explosion. So it's the explosion that sunned her not the TP. Bare in mind people get stunned all the time in fights and carry on fighting, that doesn't equal a win but obvioulsy if you opponent stops fighting you you're gonna take that time to get you're second wind.


Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that in the story arc it could be argued that Exodus > Xavier. Exodus one shots Jean Grey and Xavier is too scared to psi-battle him in a one on one confrontation so he trys to hit Exodus with a sneak attack. This is what happens.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/20221003/Avengers_v1_369_-_part_5_32.jpg.html

It pretty much looked to me that Exodus was getting read to whup his butt but Dane stopped him. So Sersi was stalemating that guy but only got stunned by an explosion. Despero is going down.

Oh Bleeding Edge Iron Man has TP shields
http://i.imgur.com/boRO2vP.png

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

So you're giving one side all their tricks....But DC won't do things because they don't usually do it. Lol.



Lol. Yes, I am sure. But look at how you're willing to give one side the benefit of the doubt despite ZERO showings, and then the DC side.....Has to prove every single item (to the extent that one of the most powerful telepaths in DC has to prove he can...Use mind control.


Nope never said that. I said that DC can use their tricks but I don't think they will use it straight away, which is why I gave The Flash example. I've rarely seen Flash go over FTL when fighting opponents and I've only seen him use the infinite mass punch once, he used that because he was fighting another speedster who was about to kill Kyle. So my point is if team DC or Marvel see things going badly then they will pull out the tricks. Doom won't use the Ovoid mind trick unless he's desperate and he's not going to summoun mindless ones unless thing start poing really bad. Which is what happened in The Mighty Avengers issue. The Avengers had pretty much beaten all Doom's defences and were getting very close to him to he pulled out the big guns.

I think me giving BRB and Jane Thor the benefit of the doubt has irritated you slightly and I think rightfully so, I'm just trying to give team Marvel a win. If they have zero feats and Despero does it would be wrong to give them precedence I was just trying to see what I could get. However I do think in certain incidents you can make an argument when there are no feats but not in the case if Despero had feats to back him up, I just don't think he has.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Alberto, the OP, didn't. So..... brainiac is still present.

Yeah but I'm talking to you and we agreed that Brainac would be too much, so we agreed to replace him with Zod. However since I think Despero isn't a threat if Braniac isn't > Xavier I might attempt to argue for Marvel.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Is Hela going to dip into her bag of tricks? Is doom mind swapping? Summoning Mindless ones? Etc etc.



Forum rules. Also, what is normal speedster levels??

Yeah and forum rules state that fighters will fight using their personality. However I could be wrong if you can prove that He'l will use his speed from the outset and teleport, then sure.

Normal speedster levels seem like below light speed and many times the speed of sound.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
And someone like Ares or H'el can teleport him right back.

H'el fought and beaten the Superman family at once. It would have to be a pretty powerful 2-3 members.

I'm thinking Jane Thor, Hyperion and Apocalypse. If Doom summouns mindless ones it could 4 vs He'l, maybe add Vulcan to the list.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

Kyle can access any of the Emotional spectrum (Red, Orange, White, Green,etc..). He's beyond top tier, IMO.


I could have sworn I read somewhere that Nova could channel the full force of the Nova corps through him.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

Depends on which Ares. Ares was the God of War, along with being a Death god. He's the only skyfather level opponent on both sides.


You sure Hela isn't skyfather? Well it's said she's a rival to Mephisto and Mephisto seems skyfather to me, sometimes he seems to come across like an abstract. I think at the very least she could hold her own against him. Doom beats Lex and Sersi beats Despero. It could be Hel, Doom and Sersi vs Ares. Dooms real sneaky and is notorius for stealing powers from being much more powerful than himself.

Originally posted by Senor Cage

Lex has a friggen Imp as resources. That trumps anything Doom has. Like I said, you don't want to mess with current Lex. He has five out of the 7 forces in the universe, along with a crap load of resources at his call.

That Imp is standard equipment? So is Lex Johnny Thunder now? I don't think somehow.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Where does it say one needs a strong will? Only if they are worthy. Which can mean anything. Mon El has almost no feats, but Daxamites =Kryptonite, so I am going to give him Superman's feats. You cannot just make things up. If they have no feats, then.....They have no feats, period.


By the way one last thing on this point. I think it's pretty obvious that you can argue that being worthy includes having a strong will. Just by common sense you can't be a good person if you don't have strong will because you have to resist temptation and adversity. Furthermore how are you going to defend Earth and Asagard if you don't have a strong will? Especially when the hammers are coming from a realm were magic use is common place.

So obvioulsy having a strong will is essential. However the question is how strong? That doesn't neccesarily prove that you can resist somebody as powerful as Despero without feats.

Originally posted by Deadline
No it isn't, the problem is that they're two different situations. With Doom it is a controlled and focused attack with a portal opening with mindless ones who are there to specifically destroy the team. If you read the context of the story were you got those scans that was a random attack of mindless ones who were roaming around and who just happened to bump into Spitefire and Blade.....and they ran. If they had stayed behind they would have died. Bare in mind Spitfire is a vampire speedster, so not only does she has speedster speeds she has superhumans trength and claws.
Lol. Spitfire's speed is enough to deal with Mindless Ones (I note no mention made of Blade)? How fast do you think the speedy guys on Team DC are?


A few Mindless Ones can keep street/meta tier level characters busy. OK.

Firestorm turns ALL of them into salt at once.



Lol. So he can use illusions to fool superteams all at once.

He can mindcontrol

But....he cannot mindcontrol superteams?

That's as silly an argument as saying 'Superman can lift a pencil; he can lift 100tons; but no scans exist of him lifting a 100ton pencil - ergo, he cannot'.


Vulcan, who had an amp, was against WEAKER characters, and is against a team composed of Brainy, H'el AND Despero? Yeah, I'm sure.


So...a bus level explosion would take her out of the fight? Lol.


So when Team DC have superspeed, and they see things are going badly, they will then....use their speed and win. Either way, they win.


But it's Albert's thread. Not mine, not yours. I can agree with someone else here that I now replace Team Marvel with normal humans, that doesn't mean bupkis. You want to argue with Zod, make your own thread and I will meet you there.



Nah.



But I will entertain you.
http://i.imgur.com/FWq5wog.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QLlX3BB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xzLOmFq.jpg

And against Flash:
http://i.imgur.com/BPXPtHt.jpg


Lol do you realise how wide that gap is???

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question138434.html

Lightspeed is 881 THOUSAND times faster. So a speedster doesn't have to be travelling 'at lightspeed' to be faster than these guys. Even 10% of lightspeed is still 88 thousand times faster than sound.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Lol. Spitfire's speed is enough to deal with Mindless Ones (I note no mention made of Blade)? How fast do you think the speedy guys on Team DC are?


A few Mindless Ones can keep street/meta tier level characters busy. OK.

Firestorm turns ALL of them into salt at once.



Lol. So he can use illusions to fool superteams all at once.

He can mindcontrol

But....he cannot mindcontrol superteams?

That's as silly an argument as saying 'Superman can lift a pencil; he can lift 100tons; but no scans exist of him lifting a 100ton pencil - ergo, he cannot'.


Vulcan, who had an amp, was against WEAKER characters, and is against a team composed of Brainy, H'el AND Despero? Yeah, I'm sure.


So...a bus level explosion would take her out of the fight? Lol.


So when Team DC have superspeed, and they see things are going badly, they will then....use their speed and win. Either way, they win.


But it's Albert's thread. Not mine, not yours. I can agree with someone else here that I now replace Team Marvel with normal humans, that doesn't mean bupkis. You want to argue with Zod, make your own thread and I will meet you there.



Nah.



But I will entertain you.
http://i.imgur.com/FWq5wog.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QLlX3BB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xzLOmFq.jpg

And against Flash:
http://i.imgur.com/BPXPtHt.jpg


Lol do you realise how wide that gap is???

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question138434.html

Lightspeed is 881 THOUSAND times faster. So a speedster doesn't have to be travelling 'at lightspeed' to be faster than these guys. Even 10% of lightspeed is still 88 thousand times faster than sound.

Whatever man I'm done.

most of marvel team is resistant to TP though...

Originally posted by Deadline
I'm thinking Jane Thor, Hyperion and Apocalypse. If Doom summouns mindless ones it could 4 vs He'l, maybe add Vulcan to the list.



I could have sworn I read somewhere that Nova could channel the full force of the Nova corps through him.



You sure Hela isn't skyfather? Well it's said she's a rival to Mephisto and Mephisto seems skyfather to me, sometimes he seems to come across like an abstract. I think at the very least she could hold her own against him. Doom beats Lex and Sersi beats Despero. It could be Hel, Doom and Sersi vs Ares. Dooms real sneaky and is notorius for stealing powers from being much more powerful than himself.



That Imp is standard equipment? So is Lex Johnny Thunder now? I don't think somehow.



By the way one last thing on this point. I think it's pretty obvious that you can argue that being worthy includes having a strong will. Just by common sense you can't be a good person if you don't have strong will because you have to resist temptation and adversity. Furthermore how are you going to defend Earth and Asagard if you don't have a strong will? Especially when the hammers are coming from a realm were magic use is common place.

So obvioulsy having a strong will is essential. However the question is how strong? That doesn't neccesarily prove that you can resist somebody as powerful as Despero without feats.

Luthor can summon a lot more than Mindless ones. He has 5 of the 7 forces that Perpetua used to create the Multiverse, on top of a 5-D imp, which is standard now. Luthor is just insane.

Kyle can control all the emotional spectrum, which also has the Life Entity. He was able to repair the Source Wall with that energy. That's light years ahead of Nova corps.

Hela is more death god level, which is powerful, but Ares has the power of 2 gods

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
most of marvel team is resistant to TP though...

'Most' are??

You're going to have to prove that.

Then prove they are resistant to a combined group of telepaths like Brainiac, Hel and Despero, combined.