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Is it wrong to work for an employer and do personal things on company time and be paid for it?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Is it wrong to work for an employer and do personal things on company time and be paid for it? my time and my companies are not fixed. I don't have office hours. Higher level contracts usually have responsibilities andbas long as you meet those, you've donen your job. I write vision and missions and five year action plans other people make them work and worry about clocking in and out.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Is it wrong to work for an employer and do personal things on company time and be paid for it?


depends on your job. for example firemen and police tend to have lots of down time and i don't feel that they should have to 'look busy'

but if you're getting paid to perform a task, and you're not doing it, you're in the wrong

^Agreed

Lets say you are supposed to be at work 12:00 pm. And you show up, not dressed to work, clock in, go to the bathroom and take 15 minutes to change. Is that theft?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
depends on your job. for example firemen and police tend to have lots of down time and i don't feel that they should have to 'look busy'

but if you're getting paid to perform a task, and you're not doing it, you're in the wrong pretty much

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
^Agreed

Lets say you are supposed to be at work 12:00 pm. And you show up, not dressed to work, clock in, go to the bathroom and take 15 minutes to change. Is that theft? is your task reliant on starting at that time? Or does your day give you the freedom to se byour own timetable to complete tasks? Is that just when you are expected to be in the building.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
^Agreed

Lets say you are supposed to be at work 12:00 pm. And you show up, not dressed to work, clock in, go to the bathroom and take 15 minutes to change. Is that theft?

theft is a legal charge, not a philosophical one. it's like when people say 'meat is murder" or "abortion is murder". but i digress

if they are on the clock and not working, especially on a regular basis, they should be confronted about it professionally, because it's not ethical behavior.

all i know at this point is corporate, so if i was managing this dumbcunt i would first warn them and write them up for further violations. the reason for this would be to present the case to HR if/when they decide 'whateva! i'll do what i want!"

I'm lucky I'm now the "leader" lol, so i don't manage. I have hr and line managers to do that. I get to smile and i don'teven sign the warning letters, i just countersign the head of hr these days when people get fired or employed.

In KSA i used to play golf on work timrbtwiceva week networking.

managing sucks. unless you have direct and irrefutable say in the hiring process, it's a lottery of shit.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
theft is a legal charge, not a philosophical one. it's like when people say 'meat is murder" or "abortion is murder". but i digress

if they are on the clock and not working, especially on a regular basis, they should be confronted about it professionally, because it's not ethical behavior.

all i know at this point is corporate, so if i was managing this dumbcunt i would first warn them and write them up for further violations. the reason for this would be to present the case to HR if/when they decide 'whateva! i'll do what i want!"

What about being on your phone at work on on your computer doing things? Like if your supposed to be working instead on your phone or computer doing personal things.

It can either be adults doing it or kids "studying for school."

all depends on context. if it was a cop, and you were pissed over it, i'd be like "why you cryin lulz"

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
depends on your job. for example firemen and police tend to have lots of down time and i don't feel that they should have to 'look busy'

but if you're getting paid to perform a task, and you're not doing it, you're in the wrong

Bingo

i should have clarified that point more, so allow me: many corporate jobs have down time. i myself an having one, and my manager tells me to milk it. not everyone has the kind of job where there is ALWAYS shit to do. few do.

again, i havent worked in non-corporate for over 15 years, so i don't know how someone like that should be handled at target or mcdonalds or a gas station or whatever. yell at them?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
managing sucks. unless you have direct and irrefutable say in the hiring process, it's a lottery of shit. Yup, I don't interview much now either. It was very hard learning to trust others judgement. I occasionally attend recruitment fairs if i can justify the flights and hotel. I'mnotndoing them unless the location is nice, best recently was Singapore three years ago. I wracked up awesome expenses.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i should have clarified that point more, so allow me: many corporate jobs have down time. i myself an having one, and my manager tells me to milk it. not everyone has the kind of job where there is ALWAYS shit to do. few do. My advice to anyone is do your job and milk any perks you can. Everyone else is aboveband below you. As long as you do your job, no one unless they are a *unt cares.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
My advice to anyone is do your job and milk any perks you can. Everyone else is aboveband below you. As long as you do your job, no one unless they are a *unt cares.

exactly. if your job is to engrave 10 tombstones a day, and you finish 2 hours early, you deserve 3:00 paid happy hour

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
^Agreed

Lets say you are supposed to be at work 12:00 pm. And you show up, not dressed to work, clock in, go to the bathroom and take 15 minutes to change. Is that theft?

This sounds like classic time clock fraud to me.


Unless you don't take your break later in the day?


Breaks: company does not have to offer.

Lunches: company has to offer if you work 6 or more hours in a day.

i typed that example as a joke but now i am curious

*edit* "24000 and 36000 depending on seniority levels"

Originally posted by dadudemon
This sounds like classic time clock fraud to me.


Unless you don't take your break later in the day?


Breaks: company does not have to offer.

Lunches: company has to offer if you work 6 or more hours in a day.

Well this is hourly work, so if you clock in before you actually start working I agree.

Also, this person doesn't take breaks due to only being scheduled for a few hours a day.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
exactly. if your job is to engrave 10 tombstones a day, and you finish 2 hours early, you deserve 3:00 paid happy hour

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Well this is hourly work, so if you clock in before you actually start working I agree.

Also, this person doesn't take breaks due to only being scheduled for a few hours a day.

That's definitely time clock fraud 100% for sure.

They need to show up to work 30 minutes earlier.

15 minutes to get ready, 15 minutes to do their pooping. Then clock in.

If they only work a few hours, they are not entitled to a lunch break. Your company may have an internal break policy where every 4 hours worked, you get a 10 minute paid break. But that's internal.

The classic example of time clock fraud is clocking in and doing anything else but your job duties. Such as clocking in, eating breakfast, getting coffee, chatting with Kathi from asset management, and checking Facebook. And THEN going into your work backlog to start your day. That's classic timeclock fraud.

Another kind is clocking in and then driving away to do whatever.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Is it wrong to work for an employer and do personal things on company time and be paid for it? Depends entirely on the type of job you have, imo.

When I was doing the FD thing for all those years, we worked a 48/96hr schedule. IOW, you worked for two consecutive days at the FD, and then were off four consecutive days. Suffice to say: when you're at work for two days straight, you take down time whenever you can. Are tax payers essentially paying for you to sleep on their dime? Yes, but it's a mutual tradeoff, as most tax payers would certainly prefer us to be well-rested when we responded to their emergencies(be them fire or EMS related.)

I'm a flight medic now and 'just' work 24hr shifts these days, but it's still the same basic thing: napping/resting on the clock is actually encouraged because we never know *when* we'll get to sleep, etc... And even though working while fatigued is certainly part of this line of work, that certainly doesn't mean you can operate to your 'best' if you're only running on 30mins of sleep in a 24hr period of time(and anyone who says otherwise is a f*cking liar.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Depends entirely on the type of job you have, imo.

When I was doing the FD thing for all those years, we worked a 48/96hr schedule. IOW, you worked for two consecutive days at the FD, and then were off four consecutive days. Suffice to say: when you're at work for two days straight, you take down time whenever you can. Are tax payers essentially paying for you to sleep on their dime? Yes, but it's a mutual tradeoff, as most tax payers would certainly prefer us to be well-rested when we responded to their emergencies(be them fire or EMS related.)

I'm a flight medic now and 'just' work 24hr shifts these days, but it's still the same basic thing: napping/resting on the clock is actually encouraged because we never know *when* we'll get to sleep, etc... And even though working while fatigued is certainly part of this line of work, that certainly doesn't mean you can operate to your 'best' if you're only running on 30mins of sleep in a 24hr period of time(and anyone who says otherwise is a f*cking liar.) good post!

Originally posted by Galan007
Depends entirely on the type of job you have, imo.

When I was doing the FD thing for all those years, we worked a 48/96hr schedule. IOW, you worked for two consecutive days at the FD, and then were off four consecutive days. Suffice to say: when you're at work for two days straight, you take down time whenever you can. Are tax payers essentially paying for you to sleep on their dime? Yes, but it's a mutual tradeoff, as most tax payers would certainly prefer us to be well-rested when we responded to their emergencies(be them fire or EMS related.)

I'm a flight medic now and 'just' work 24hr shifts these days, but it's still the same basic thing: napping/resting on the clock is actually encouraged because we never know *when* we'll get to sleep, etc... And even though working while fatigued is certainly part of this line of work, that certainly doesn't mean you can operate to your 'best' if you're only running on 30mins of sleep in a 24hr period of time(and anyone who says otherwise is a f*cking liar.) agreed. With certain jobs it goes both ways.

I worked security at a hospital for a few years and we had the option to be on call, and if called in, u get special pay. U have to follow special rules for days when ur on call tho. U have to be able to show up in a reasonable time and be in state ready to work. So no drinking, traveling etc...

Now if u do get called in, the pay for "special duty" is great.

If u dont, then u just spent the weekend, sober, at home, for nothing, while ur family went to the Sox game without u. Which sucks

But like u said its a mutual trade off.

The employee might spend a few days limiting themselves in what they can do, but u get the chance to make more than dbl what u normaly do for doing the same job u normally do if u get called in.

On the other hand the employer gets to have employees on call 24/7, but if called they have to pay out the ass for the services.

It depends on the job. I always try to find where the lines are for each individual employer I've had. As a chef, if there's EVER an opportunity to do nothing, then you clean something. If everything has been cleaned and there's still nothing to do then the boss is happy and we can all grab a smoke break. We even have a beer on the occasional Sunday shift.

I was told when I first started working at my job that if I took a 30 minute dump every day, that by the time I retired I would have saved myself over a year from actually working.