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1. Sabers
2.Force only
3. All out


Setting: Arena on Geonosis

Vader, unless Revan TPs.

KF Vader.

Vader. Excellent fight.

Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan.

I actually agree.

Revan should be more powerful than Anakin at this point, and he defeated Malak who would be a rival swordsman to Anakin.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
I actually agree.

Revan should be more powerful than Anakin at this point, and he defeated Malak who would be a rival swordsman to Anakin.


So you think malak is a duelist close to or at the level of windu, yoda, and palpatine?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader, unless Revan TPs.

Originally posted by KingofBlades
So you think malak is a duelist close to or at the level of windu, yoda, and palpatine?

Nope and neither is Anakin.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
he defeated Malak who would be a rival swordsman to Anakin.

Originally posted by Trocity


http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/choofed.gif

Heh. I never said Malak was Anakin's superior.

But Malak did defeat the most skilled Jedi duelist in the Jedi Order of that time period, Kavar.

Defeating the #1 Jedi swordsman at the time should make him a rival to Anakin.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211




But Malak did defeat the most skilled Jedi duelist in the Jedi Order of that time period, Kavar.

Defeating the #1 Jedi swordsman at the time should make him a rival to Anakin.



Nothing states kavar was the orders best lighsaber user in during kotor 2. In fact I remember the kotor 2 prima game guide stating outright he was not as skilled as the other masters.Even if there was a statement of kavar being the order's greatest duelist that would mean he is the best among only 4 or 5 jedi which isnt impressive.

^^^

In an Order of thousands of well-trained combatants, if you are among the top 4 - 5 in terms of dueling skills, then this is not impressive.

Hmmm... excellent logic...

Originally posted by KingofBlades
Nothing states kavar was the orders best lighsaber user in during kotor 2. In fact I remember the kotor 2 prima game guide stating outright he was not as skilled as the other masters.Even if there was a statement of kavar being the order's greatest duelist that would mean he is the best among only 4 or 5 jedi which isnt impressive.

Ah I was thinking of something an old friend of mine had said here:

Originally posted by zephiel7
It was stated in KOTOR that Malak defeated Kavar (the top duelist in the Jedi council) in a lightsaber duel. Kavar was the strongest duelist of a Jedi Order that fought more force wielders. If the duelists receive more practice (fighting dark Jedi), then they should of course be better at wielding a lightsaber.

If you think though that the people of PT are 'more talented,' it is highly unprobable that EVERYONE in that order is more talented than EVERYONE in the KOTOR order. Since Kavar was the top dog of an (on average) stronger order of duelists, then that speaks a lot for Malak's victory.

And where did you get the idea that Kavar would only be the best out of 4 or 5 Jedi?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

In an Order of thousands of well-trained combatants, if you are among the top 4 - 5 in terms of dueling skills, then this is not impressive.

Hmmm... excellent logic...


I meant during the course of kotor 2 when the order had dwindled to a handful

Even if he was among the best prior to the mandalorian wars he would get stomped by kotor revan who is below tpm mace windu. Tpm mace is weaker than base rots anakin, let alone knightfall vader. Beating kavar isn't a feat worth noting in comparison to knightfall vader

Originally posted by KingofBlades
Even if he was among the best prior to the mandalorian wars he would get stomped by kotor revan who is below tpm mace windu. Tpm mace is weaker than base rots anakin, let alone knightfall vader. Beating kavar isn't a feat worth noting in comparison to knightfall vader

How do you know KotoR Revan is below TPM Mace Windu?

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
How do you know KotoR Revan is below TPM Mace Windu?

All of the quotes saying windu was arguably the most powerful jedi in an order that included yoda. That should place him around plagueis level which is above kotor revan considering how even revan reborn was a bit weaker than novel vitiate who is plagueis level.

Originally posted by KingofBlades
All of the quotes saying windu was arguably the most powerful jedi in an order that included yoda. That should place him around plagueis level which is above kotor revan considering how even revan reborn was a bit weaker than novel vitiate who is plagueis level.

Even though Vitiate is a shitty character, he's probably still more powerful than Plagueis.

And Mace Windu during The Phantom Menace hadn't reached his potential like he did in Revenge Of The Sith.

TPM Mace wouldn't be very close to Yoda in power.

KotoR Revan with all his accolades and training from Kreia is probably a peer to Mace Windu as he was during The Phantom Menace.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Even though Vitiate is a shitty character, he's probably still more powerful than Plagueis.

And Mace Windu during The Phantom Menace hadn't reached his potential like he did in Revenge Of The Sith.

TPM Mace wouldn't be very close to Yoda in power.

KotoR Revan with all his accolades and training from Kreia is probably a peer to Mace Windu as he was during The Phantom Menace.

The quotes saying mace windu is the greatest warrior in the order are circa TPM which makes him > TPM Yoda though obviously yoda is more powerful as of ROTS. I agree with kotor revan being a peer of tpm mace but mace is still a bit more powerful. However Knightfall vader would definitively defeat tpm mace and by proxy revan. So malak defeating someone who is in kotor revan's stomp range isnt impressive considering base rots anakin would definitively beat kotor revan let alone KF vader

All of the above is pure conjecture based on cherrypicked accolades.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
All of the above is pure conjecture based on cherrypicked accolades.

My reasoning for kotor revan being able to stomp kavar is because kreia was able to do the same. If you also take into consideration the cut content that obsidian planned to put in the game but ran out of time(poor obsidian never get the time they need to complete their games) kreia was supposed to stomp the masters on dantooine with force crush prior to draining them. Regardless kotor revan is confirmed to be more powerful than kreia meaning he should be able to replicate kreia's feat just as easily if not easier. Considering kf vader stomped cin drallig and should be able to stomp dooku as easily as he did on the invisisble hand likely means someone like kavar would be fodder to him and at the very least well within his stomp range. So trying to say kavar is a rival swordsmen to anakin doesn't make much sense

For the record, as has been stated for years. The Jedi Order between TOTJ and the end of the OSW were the combative prime of the Jedi Order, even moreso than they were in TCW. The KotORCG confirms this.

You used golden age logic on the last page.

This thread is not okay.

Good fight, bad logic.

Revan wins.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You used golden age logic on the last page.


"During this time, the jedi order it at the summit of its power and self confidence."(Kotor CG)

The quote is likely referring to the collective power of the order. Which only means that the jedi were on average stronger, but that doesn't mean the best of the kotor era jedi are at all peers of the best PT jedi.

Of course thats assuming its speaking only of combative ability. Power in respect to entire organizations, even a warrior monastic tradition like the jedi usually refers to things like the organization's influence. A real world example would be the knights templar whose peak power refers to when their influence had spread all over Europe, not when they were primarily warriors in the crusades. Of course real world examples do not always work but its still worth noting.

Jedi and Sith from the PT aren't at their peak in Force power, they are at their peak in political power.

As fighters, they stink.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
This thread is not okay.

Good fight, bad logic.

Revan wins.


Would you mind telling me the problem with my logic? I'm rather new to this and am trying to improve.

Originally posted by Trocity
Jedi and Sith from the PT aren't at their peak in Force power, they are at their peak in political power.

As fighters, they stink.

Agreed.

I think that's definitely what Lucas meant when he said the PT was the "Golden age of Jedi".

He wasn't speaking of power - since the PT Jedi were rusty and hadn't fought a full-scale war in thousands of years.

I could argue that Revan survives anything KF Vader tries to throw at him since he survived taking a lightsaber to the face. But KF Vader probably wins, unless you think 1 of 2 things: a) KF Vader wasn't as powerful as Darth Sidious or Yoda, but they beat Revan; b) Darth Sidious and Yoda don't beat Revan.

I could make the argument that Force-users don't necessarily get stronger as they get older and Padawan Obi-Wan > Master Obi-Wan (or any of the other masters bar Mace and Yoda), but it's clear Obi-Wan was just a lucky and exceptionally capable Padawan.