Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Take particular notice of the chart shown in the article (I've embedded it here also) and how steep the incline has been over the last 25 years or so. And the same with the Mainline religious on the decline. Now, of course that doesn't mean the "Nones" identify as atheist. The article mentions that it was only 22% or so of the Nones that are actual atheists, but it's still encouraging. I see this as an increase in the desire for secular rationality.




'Nones' Now as Big as Evangelicals & Catholics in the US



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2EO7S2X4AACqEZ.png

Good news. I feel bad for the jews though.

Originally posted by Surtur
Good news. I feel bad for the jews though.

It's not necessarily good news for you, Surt. It more than likely will cause a shift to more 'liberal' votes. **sarcastic shocked & horrified emoji**

Originally posted by Surtur
Good news. I feel bad for the jews though.

That's cos they've hypnotized you though.

Good reason for not being afraid of self-labeling as an "atheist"...

w_2SwU79I-E

This is good news, right?

Also, this is largely due to the internet and social media, IMO.

The news isn't good for baby jesus though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is good news, right?

Yes, absolutely.

But very few of the 'Nones' admit to being "atheist," just no affiliation with a particular religion.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It's not necessarily good news for you, Surt. It more than likely will cause a shift to more 'liberal' votes. **sarcastic shocked & horrified emoji**
'Left-wing' votes

Left-wing=/=right wing

You can be a right-wing liberal in the classical John Locke sense (such as myself), you can be an illiberal right-winger, you can be a left-wing liberal ie. a social liberal who actually believes in capitalism with a safetynet and social liberty, or you can be an illiberal left-winger who doesn't believe in capitalism and/or doesn't believe in social liberties like freedom of speech.

Also dafuq does "mainline" mean?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Also dafuq does "mainline" mean?

It's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

Originally posted by Surtur
The news isn't good for baby jesus though.

This baby dead now.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant
Oh good, so Christians as a whole still outnumber everyone else by a significant margin.

I wonder where I'd fall in that chart as a non-denominational Christian?

DMB cleaning house tbh

Originally posted by Surtur
I feel bad for the jews though.
Yeah what makes it worse IIRC, America has the second largest Jew population aside from Israel

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I wonder where I'd fall in that chart as a non-denominational Christian?

Probably mainline because you're not Catholic or evangelical, right?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yes, absolutely.

But very few of the 'Nones' admit to being "atheist," just no affiliation with a particular religion.

I would fir there too. I'm not an atheist, but I absolutely do not subscribe to a religion or religious doctrine or dogma

Originally posted by Robtard
I would fir there too. I'm not an atheist, but I absolutely do not subscribe to a religion or religious doctrine or dogma
IIRC you're something of a deist right? I think I remember having a short convo with you about it.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Probably mainline because you're not Catholic or evangelical, right?
Not really sure how mainline a universal reconciliationist can be.

Edit: though apparently it used to be more mainline in the early days of the Church. Apparently there were six schools of thought in the early church relating to what happens after death, four of them were universal reconciliationist, one was the traditional heaven and hell, and one was anihilationist (those who **** up just stop existing rather than being tortured for eternity)

If Unitarian Universalists count as Mainline, then you're Mainline, DMB. Because UU aren't even strictly Christian.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
IIRC you're something of a deist right? I think I remember having a short convo with you about it.

Yeah, guess that term fits for me mostly.

I also accept that I don't know what God exactly is and/if God wants anything from us, is involved or how far that involvement extends if so and that I'll likely never know for sure.

IMO, religion is 100% man-made , as means to explain the explainable and a means to keep people in line and I don't believe God personally spoke with anyone directing them, be it Noah, Moses, Mohammad, Trump voters etc.

But the "it's all just random" belief doesn't make sense to me, there seems to be some logic behind the universe. But I also accept that could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.

To be on topic, am glad in this trend, religious groups like the Evangelicals/Religious Right have way too much political pull, if this trend helps even that out some, the better.

I don't think people are becoming more rational, I think religion is falling out of fashion a bit and more importantly the stigma around not being religious is fading. But in general I think people are more driven by identity than rationality.

and baby jesus just slowly fades away...

I tend to wonder if this shift is more due to the people who were born into Christianity but didn't practice it extensively coming to terms with their own secular nature. I.e. I wonder how many actual"Bible thumpers" are being converted.

Originally posted by Surtur
and baby jesus just slowly fades away...

Good riddance. You may as well worship Zeus. At least he is a badass and has good stories.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
If Unitarian Universalists count as Mainline, then you're Mainline, DMB. Because UU aren't even strictly Christian.
I'm not Unitarian though I'm Trinitarian.

Edit: Ah wait, misunderstood that post.

I think the UK is still top for atheists.

Originally posted by ares834
Good riddance. You may as well worship Zeus. At least he is a badass and has good stories.

Yeah but there's like a 1 in 4 chance he'll rape you.

Originally posted by ares834
Good riddance. You may as well worship Zeus. At least he is a badass and has good stories. The God of the Old Testament would kick the shit out of Zeus. He's not a wimp turn the another cheek guy. He flew through Egypt like an angel of death, and as for the flood, he made it rain and rain and rain, for 40 days and 40 nights because he was sorry he said "let there be light", he made it rain and rain and rain and rain again! He committed almost genocide of his creation. Pfft Zeus, Odin, Crom all pussies next to Yahweh/Allah! Now there's a truly psychotic, narcissistic, supreme being, Sacrifice your sons for him! By the way Islam accepts the old testament.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I think the UK is still top for atheists.

Thank god for that.

Dude legit had someone give birth to another version of him just to get props for "dying".

Lame.

Originally posted by Robtard
Thank god for that. Praise be...

God is real.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
God is real. No he isn't.

Originally posted by Flashing Blade
No he isn't. shut up lame sock.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
shut up lame sock. I'm not a sock, but I bet you are and I bet everyone knows it.

People say he's a sock of someone called Quan.

Eon actually isnt a sock. He regualrly posts pictures of himself in the OFT forum.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Eon actually isnt a sock. He regualrly posts pictures of himself in the OFT forum. means nothing. Catfishing is a big thing.

Originally posted by mike brown
I tend to wonder if this shift is more due to the people who were born into Christianity but didn't practice it extensively coming to terms with their own secular nature. I.e. I wonder how many actual"Bible thumpers" are being converted.

I think that is part of it, i.e. tacit and nominal "Christians" no longer feel the social pressure to identify as Christian.

I think the reason for this is twofold:

The religious right have made Christianity toxic in American culture.
The Internet has increased access to information.

When Christians got involved in politics, they lost the culture. And the Internet allows people to seek answers outside of the church.

It would be hilarious having an atheist president. Imagine what those from the 1960s butthurt over a Catholic becoming president would say if some time traveler from the future came and said "the president doesn't think god is a thing".

Even if I'm a religious man myself I don't think excessive identification with religion is a good thing. I respect that people feel the need to own their own ethical decisions disregarding their personal philosophies and creeds. Sadly in my experience religion pulls a lot of people in the opposite direction.

With that said, I feel similarly about sexual identities. If you are responsible about your sexuality and respect that of others, I don't think the label you use to describe your preferences/gender matters much. Using it as an excuse for trying to get advantages or play victim is a whole different issue.

Originally posted by Robtard
Or who these Evangelicals side with has nothing to do with their so called religious moral code.

I just wish they would be honest and say the following:

Donald Trump does not live by our values, but we voted for him because we thought he was more likely to fight for some of our values than the democrats.

That is more honest than saying "God chose him" even if you ignore the fact God isn't real. For example, Trump is going to support legislation against abortion more than any democrat would.

Originally posted by Surtur
It would be hilarious having an atheist president. Imagine what those from the 1960s butthurt over a Catholic becoming president would say if some time traveler from the future came and said "the president doesn't think god is a thing".

I think we're pretty close. I believe both Obama and Trump are not very religious and just kind of pretended to be to pander to various voting blocs.

Originally posted by BackFire
I think we're pretty close. I believe both Obama and Trump are not very religious and just kind of pretended to be to pander to various voting blocs.

Isn't it known Obama attended church and stuff in the past? Though I do not believe Trump personally cares about religion.

He attended church but I just kind of got the impression it's not terribly important to him.

Originally posted by Surtur
I just wish they would be honest and say the following:

Donald Trump does not live by our values, but we voted for him because we thought he was more likely to fight for some of our values than the democrats.

That is more honest than saying "God chose him" even if you ignore the fact God isn't real. For example, Trump is going to support legislation against abortion more than any democrat would.

Fair enough

I'm looking forward to 2021 when they magically find their caring for morals, family values and general decency again. Should Trump win again, then there concerns will remain hidden for another four years.

To them "family values" just means being against abortions and gay people.

Originally posted by BackFire
He attended church but I just kind of got the impression it's not terribly important to him.

That's because he was secretly wishing it was a Mosque, dummy.

Originally posted by BackFire
To them "family values" just means being against abortions and gay people.

To be fair it can go beyond that. My grandma shamed my cousin for getting pregnant when she wasn't married.

Originally posted by BackFire
To them "family values" just means being against abortions and gay people.

If abortion is "murder" to them, then wouldn't they just hold their noses and be all for gay couples? Much harder to create a baby (that could then maybe be aborted) via buttf**king and scissoring. Believe me, I've tried!

Originally posted by BackFire
He attended church but I just kind of got the impression it's not terribly important to him.

I imagine that a lot of church going politicians only attend to better appeal to the public. It's still considered a bit of a taboo to be an atheist unfortunately.

Originally posted by BackFire
To them "family values" just means being against abortions and gay people.

Basically, yeah.

Originally posted by Surtur
To be fair it can go beyond that. My grandma shamed my cousin for getting pregnant when she wasn't married.

Yeah, premarrital sex is another big issue. Which is why fundamentalists just want "abstinence" education (which has failed miserably) and not proper safe sex education. Cause you know, evolved apes can so easily control millions of years of evolution. But to them we're not that of course, we're God's holy design with perfect control over our "free will."


Originally posted by Robtard
If abortion is "murder" to them, then wouldn't they just hold their noses and be all for gay couples? Much harder to create a baby (that could then maybe be aborted) via buttf**king and scissoring. Believe me, I've tried!

No, no. Homosexuals have to be converted so they will have babies who will be poor and have no choice but to join the army and fight and die for the military industrial complex. Duh.

I don't know what you're talking about, if you tell teenagers not to have sex, they won't do it. Simple as that. It's worked for decades. Teenagers always listen.

Originally posted by BackFire
I don't know what you're talking about, if you tell teenagers not to have sex, they won't do it. Simple as that. It's worked for decades. Teenagers always listen.

Not sure it counts if you're shouting at them not to have sex whilst raping them.

We all know how those "revamped sermons" end up.

AZFuvVdIgSw

Omg..

Lmfao

I actually gasped

That wins the internet for today.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Take particular notice of the chart shown in the article (I've embedded it here also) and how steep the incline has been over the last 25 years or so. And the same with the Mainline religious on the decline. Now, of course that doesn't mean the "Nones" identify as atheist. The article mentions that it was only 22% or so of the Nones that are actual atheists, but it's still encouraging. I see this as an increase in the desire for secular rationality.




'Nones' Now as Big as Evangelicals & Catholics in the US



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2EO7S2X4AACqEZ.png


No worries on that front. Christianity is rising in the US, as is Islam.


And on the world stage:


https://www.universitymagazine.ca/the-fastest-growing-religion-in-the-world/


"Nones" has no chance of overtaking religion.

They already have in the U.S. which is the subject of this thread.

https://c.tenor.com/5FL_jlp5rVEAAAAC/nice-try-jan-pretty.gif

Originally posted by cdtm
No worries on that front. Christianity is rising in the US, as is Islam.


Did you get that from the graph you posted? Because I don't see where it shows that.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
They already have in the U.S. which is the subject of this thread.

https://c.tenor.com/5FL_jlp5rVEAAAAC/nice-try-jan-pretty.gif


No, Catholicism and "evangelicals" are the subject.


The fact is, very many migrants bring religion with them. I have nearby houses of worship with heavily latino contingents to prove it (A reverand actually went to the DoJ on behalf of his worshippers)


And as the U.S. is a migrant country, the world stage affects the future of the U.S.. And on that count Islam will double.


Which means more Islamic immigrants in the future.

Originally posted by samhain
Did you get that from the graph you posted? Because I don't see where it shows that.

https://www.universitymagazine.ca/the-fastest-growing-religion-in-the-world/


The US does not exist in a vaccume.

Religious belief is a world wide phenomenon. Your so called "rational thinkers" can not maintain a majority unless they intend to close off borders.

Originally posted by cdtm
vaccume X_M0wOpRRP4

The problem with American politics on both sides is tunnel vision.


Do you really think moderate religious representatives are teaming with atheists because they want an end to religion?


Doubtful. They simply want an end to white evangelicals dominance. If Catholics and Evangelicals ceases to exist, atheists and other denominations would have nothing to talk about.

Many even believe in right wing talking points, but other aspects turn them off to the right. But they are NOT left wing in spite of it.

Originally posted by cdtm
No, Catholicism and "evangelicals" are the subject.


The fact is, very many migrants bring religion with them. I have nearby houses of worship with heavily latino contingents to prove it (A reverand actually went to the DoJ on behalf of his worshippers)


And as the U.S. is a migrant country, the world stage affects the future of the U.S.. And on that count Islam will double.


Which means more Islamic immigrants in the future.

No, Nones are the subject of the thread, and they are already outpacing all religious denominations in the U.S., the other factors you mentioned included. Learn to ****ing read.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do you really think moderate religious representatives are teaming with atheists because they want an end to religion?


Doubtful....
From the first post of the thread...

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Now, of course that doesn't mean the "Nones" identify as atheist. The article mentions that it was only 22% or so of the Nones that are actual atheists, but it's still encouraging. I see this as an increase in the desire for secular rationality.




So yeah, good job reading there. Also...


Originally posted by Patient_Leech
"Take particular notice of the chart shown in the article ... and how steep the incline has been over the last 25 years or so. And the same with the Mainline religious on the decline."

I realize it's a very large uphill battle for Nones to "overtake religion." Religion is so engrained in our ancestry that I don't think it will ever be fully eradicated. But the point is the steep shift that has been happening over the last 25 years or so and what should stem from that is desire for secular society, regardless of private religious belief. Nones are growing and they need representation. So tired of even deeply secular elected representatives paying lip service to religious platitudes out of some unnecessary cultural norm.

"Nones are the subject of the thread, and they are already outpacing all religious denominations in the U.S" -AdamPoE


^God willing this trend continues

Except it's not true.


The source is also known to be biased, according to fact check websites.

Seems like it's becoming true.

In 2019 the Pew Research Center did a study and found that Christianity was going down while no religious affiliation was going up: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace. Note the words "decline", "rapid" and "pace".

That trend is only continuing and it's a great thing.

None means moral relativity.
We're all going to exist in a post modern hellscape.

Very deep and edgy, Ziggy

But no, less religion is a good thing.

Originally posted by Robtard
Very deep and edgy, Ziggy

But no, less religion is a good thing.

Do you think objective morality exists ?

Not doing unto others what you wouldn't want done to yourself has been around before the first human looked up at the Sun and decided to worship it for it's warmth and light.

edit: BTW, most regions stem from the earliest Sun worship

Originally posted by Robtard
Not doing unto others what you wouldn't want done to yourself has been around before the first human looked up at the Sun and decided to worship it for it's warmth and light.

edit: BTW, most regions stem from the earliest Sun worship

So you believe objective morality exists in the form of the golden rule ?

I believe what I said in my post.

You can call it the "golden rule" if you like; it existed long before someone coined that phrase and applied it to religions.

Originally posted by Robtard
I believe what I said in my post.

You can call it the "golden rule" if you like; it existed long before someone coined that phrase and applied it to religions.

So you think there is objective morality or no ?

I believe morals predate religions, religions are man-made after all

I also know there's Atheist with morals

I also know there's Theist with virtually no morals who routinely go against their own claimed beliefs. eg The Catholic pedo priest, the Mormon CEO who embezzles, the Evangelical who condemns homosexuality in one breath and then breaks several Leviticus laws in another

But we agree that morals are objective in the sense that they aren't decided in an arbitrary manner, right ?

Regardless of if people stick to them or not. 2+2=4 regardless of if an observer of that equation believes it or not.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
But we agree that morals are objective in the sense that they aren't decided in an arbitrary manner, right ?

Regardless of if people stick to them or not. 2+2=4 regardless of if an observer of that equation believes it or not.

Religious morality is not objective. It is entirely arbitrary to the will of a supreme being.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
But we agree that morals are objective in the sense that they aren't decided in an arbitrary manner, right ?

Regardless of if people stick to them or not. 2+2=4 regardless of if an observer of that equation believes it or not.


Nah. Morals are decided by people, cos we make them and they're subject to change. eg At one point in America it was moral to own slaves, then it wasn't when enough people thought "hey, Black people are people too and I wouldn't want to be a slave myself, so I won't enslave others."

But sure, I agree that 2+2=4 in regards to math.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Religious morality is not objective. It is entirely arbitrary to the will of a supreme being.

I was going to say something to that effect. It has varied in place and time and is anything but "objective." For example, modern Christians choose to ignore a lot of the barbaric bullshit that would have gotten you burned alive or otherwise executed if you didn't follow in the middle ages.

And they have the nerve to hijack morality and claim they're "objective."

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I was going to say something to that effect. It has varied in place and time and is anything but "objective." For example, modern Christians choose to ignore a lot of the barbaric bullshit that would have gotten you burned alive or otherwise executed if you didn't follow in the middle ages.

And they have the nerve to hijack morality and claim they're "objective."

"Religious morality" is a misnomer, because religious moralities are not moral systems. They provide no frameworks for solving moral problems. They are simply a list of moral dictates, allegedly from a supreme being. That means that they are completely arbitrary to the will of that being, and if He decided that something we all agree is immoral was moral tomorrow, then it would be. There is nothing objective about that.

Agreed.

And the religious in different times and places have indeed completely shifted on what is or isn't moral.

Okay, so the reason you were dancing around my question is because you think morality is subjective. Got it.

Dance? I answered you the first time. You and your silly games.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dance? I answered you the first time. You and your silly games. CONFESS CONFESS

SAHY WAHTEVER IT IS WOLD MAKE YOU GHEY

Originally posted by Huwgd
CONFESS CONFESS

SAHY WAHTEVER IT IS WOLD MAKE YOU GHEY

Rob is SUPER ghey.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dance? I answered you the first time. You and your silly games.

If someone asks you a yes or no question, it's kind of weird to answer otherwise.

I had a feeling you didn't believe in objective morality, but you said something about do unto others and the sun.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
If someone asks you a yes or no question, it's kind of weird to answer otherwise.

I had a feeling you didn't believe in objective morality, but you said something about do unto others and the sun.

Sometimes simple Yes or No questions like...

Originally posted by ilikecomics
So you think there is objective morality or no ?

...come across as over simplified traps and are thus disingenuous.

It wasn't a trap. I have no gotcha come back to him not believing that morality is objective. Just seeing where he was at.

I think there is objective morality, but that doesn't mean I'm correct.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
If someone asks you a yes or no question, it's kind of weird to answer otherwise.

I see.

Do your parents know you're gay?

Originally posted by Robtard
I see.

Do your parents know you're gay?

This highlights what leech was saying, I get how it's a trick now and why you were hesitant. Thank you for the insight.

@patientleech

Do you worry that the destruction of religion will leave a psycho-spiritual vacuum that people could fill with something worse ? Or do you think any alternatives to traditional religious thinking is superior ?

Originally posted by samhain
Isn't 29% what you need to enact a hostile takeover?

I'd argue way less. Look what the Bolsheviks accomplished in 2017.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
@patientleech

Do you worry that the destruction of religion will leave a psycho-spiritual vacuum that people could fill with something worse ?

It's a complicated question, but in short, no. Those who find their way out of religion are no worse for it, and in fact (speaking from personal experience) are much more free and open to experience in a much more positive way. Humans will continue to do human things, good and bad. But what they won't do anymore without religion is waste perfectly good energy debating or spreading dogmatic and nonsensical theology. They also won't be convinced to do harm in the name of religion thinking that it is good.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Or do you think any alternatives to traditional religious thinking is superior ?

Yes. We know that severe weather is not punishment from a god. Or that seizures are not demon possession. Just examples of how traditional religious thinking is no longer useful.

Originally posted by samhain
Isn't 29% what you need to enact a hostile takeover?

I don't know, but given the diversity and disorganization of "nones" it's not a thing to worry about or expect anytime soon. Organizing Freethinkers, as they say, is like trying to herd cats.

This just in...

Religious 'Nones' are now the largest single group in the U.S.

Sorry, PL, but it's pretty obvious that hurricanes are caused by teh gays.

Jerry Falwell Jr. said so while paying to watch the pool boy f*ck his wife as he waited in the corner to clean up after he was finished.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
This just in...

Religious 'Nones' are now the largest single group in the U.S.

I think you'll find the number 1 religion in the US to be Opiodian

church or the unwarranted dopamine rush

Originally posted by Robtard
Sorry, PL, but it's pretty obvious that hurricanes are caused by teh gays.

Jerry Falwell Jr. said so while paying to watch the pool boy f*ck his wife as he waited in the corner to clean up after he was finished.

I guess we're in trouble, then. Because now that there's more 'Nones' it probably means there's more gays, which will mean more hurricanes! It's science.


Good thing for Jerry Falwell and other religious weirdos that God doesn't mind if his anointed people spank it to pool boys and molest kids etc. Very convenient for them.

It's only consentual gayness that angers God.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
This just in...

Religious 'Nones' are now the largest single group in the U.S.

https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/voices/2017/10/26/17054071/god_is_dead-DMID1-5ckh327at-498x248.gif

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I guess we're in trouble, then. Because now that there's more 'Nones' it probably means there's more gays, which will mean more hurricanes! It's science.


Good thing for Jerry Falwell and other religious weirdos that God doesn't mind if his anointed people spank it to pool boys and molest kids etc. Very convenient for them.

It's only consentual gayness that angers God.


The path is clear then, "the gays" must turn the hurricanes gay. Maybe start by giving them gay names.

Indeed!

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/voices/2017/10/26/17054071/god_is_dead-DMID1-5ckh327at-498x248.gif

Nietzsche?

God never was alive technically, because "In God we Trust" (on money) and "Under God" (in the Pledge of Allegiance) were not added unto the 1950s by religious wackos trying to take over.

...

Originally posted by Robtard
Nietzsche?

Rosemary's Baby.

Of course none's are bigger, that was the point.

No moral authority means you become a good little drone, consume and work for Big Corporate.

Originally posted by cdtm
Of course none's are bigger, that was the point.

No moral authority means you become a good little drone, consume and work for Big Corporate.

dur

NotFunFact: Catholics rape little boys and then hide it, so they can then go on raping more little boys

edit: TBF, Mormons and Evangelicals do the same, so not fair to single out Catholics

Oh yeah, that Southern Baptist Convention likes them some pedophilia.

Why else would Republicans resist sex education for kids? So they can more easily take advantage of them, of course!

Bunch of degenerates.

And that's why preachers and religious grifters are panicking.

And it's also what they'll claim is the cause of social "moral decay."