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Ok, let's get this over with. Which Captain Marvel will reign supreme?

Shazam vs. Binary.

Both are at their full powersets. They're not allowed to call for backup. Fight takes place in the abandoned island of Themyscira.

Shazam is still very green. Captain Marvel wins.

Yeah this is a fight where his lack of experience will actually come into play. For most of the other Avengers however it probably wont matter.

Cm wins, easily.

Carol annihilates him

If Shazam uses speed mostly then he wins. If they fight at nearly the same speed then she wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Shazam uses speed mostly then he wins. If they fight at nearly the same speed then she wins. Watch the film. He was shit. He loses.

Carol is faster than he is lmao

CM wins.

Originally posted by carthage
Carol is faster than he is lmao
He's way faster in battle. The problem is he doesn't use his speed often.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the film. He was shit. He loses.

I gave a conditional argument.
To prove it wrong you have to argue that he loses if he always uses his speed.

^ obvious troll is obvious.

Originally posted by Silent Master
^ obvious troll is obvious.

^ obvious troll is obvious.

Originally posted by h1a8
^ obvious troll is obvious.

Making a statement and then claiming that other people have to disprove it, rather than you having to back it up is a rather obvious troll move.

You're not fooling anyone.

Travel speed =/= battle speed

I can travel through space at light speed with the reflexes of a human. But I can't travel as fast as Shazam did in the small distance he did without some super reflexes and reactions.

In other words, Carol would not travel faster than she can react (human reactions) to in the battlefield. And you have no feats of how fast she can go in an atmosphere.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Making a statement and then claiming that other people have to disprove it, rather than you having to back it up is a rather obvious troll move.

You're not fooling anyone.
I didn't claim other people have to disprove something, I claimed HOW they have to disprove it if they are trying to disprove it.

P -> Q is ONLY FALSE if one shows that P -> not Q.


I guess you don't how debates work. A person gives an argument, then another refutes their argument.

What makes you think those ships were flying at lightspeed?

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't claim other people have to disprove something, I claimed HOW they have to disprove it if they are trying to disprove it.

P -> Q is ONLY FALSE if one shows that P -> not Q.


I guess you don't how debates work. A person gives an argument, then another refutes their argument.

No, a debate works by the person providing evidence for their argument. Then the other side attempts to disprove the evidence. as you have provided no evidence there's nothing for the other side to do except laugh at you and correctly label you a troll.

Originally posted by h1a8
I gave a conditional argument.
To prove it wrong you have to argue that he loses if he always uses his speed.


He did use his speed regularly.

He was just messing around a lot being the kid/amateur superhero he was.

Regardless, Carol is too much for this kid right now.

Making even more claims isn't providing evidence.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Making even more claims isn't providing evidence.

I agree. But that has nothing to do with anything here.

Ok, let's BZ whether or not you've provided any evidence in this thread. winner gets to pick the losers new avi and sig.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, let's get this over with. Which Captain Marvel will reign supreme?

Shazam vs. Binary.

Both are at their full powersets. They're not allowed to call for backup. Fight takes place in the abandoned island of Themyscira.


Carol beats the shit out of Shazam... His feats are very very weak

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ok, let's BZ whether or not you've provided any evidence in this thread. winner gets to pick the losers new avi and sig.

What evidence do I need to supply?
That Carol has human level reactions?
That Shazam can blitz faster than a human can react to?
That CM is super strong and durable?

The argument was if Shazam ALWAYS uses his speed then he wins.
If not then he loses. Again what evidence, other than the obvious I mentioned, needs to be presented?

Do you accept the BZ?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you accept the BZ?

Now you are trolling.

Challenging someone to a BZ isn't trolling, now. do you accept?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Challenging someone to a BZ isn't trolling, now. do you accept?

In this case it is.

Do you accept the Battle Zone?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you accept the Battle Zone?

Stop trolling in the thread!

Again, I'm challenging you to a battle Zone, not trolling.

Do you accept the Battle Zone?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, I'm challenging you to a battle Zone, not trolling.

Do you accept the Battle Zone?

You are trolling. Anyone can see that.

Originally posted by h1a8


"always" has a particular meaning


Oh who Always uses Super Speed?

Superman sure doesnt.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are trolling. Anyone can see that.

You could end this whole thing by just answering the question, do you accept the BZ?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh who Always uses Super Speed?

Superman sure doesnt.

It was an "if then" argument.

^ Point is He clearly has speed, but it wont help much against someone who flies around taking out armies of starships.

I bet we can squeeze at least 3 pages of just straight bz's to h1 out of this bad boy.

Im gonna throw some numbers out there just to get things started.

We know bullets hit with billions of tons of force from previous threads, and we know Marvel intends for the viewer to assume everything is made out of pure fluff and styrofoam.

So my calculations have the pellet feat at about 20 million tons on the low end.

Captain Marvels speed is really just a metaphor when you think about it. Non quantifiable.

Lol I completely forgot about the Billions of Tons force for aircraft fire.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Point is He clearly has speed, but it wont help much against someone who flies around taking out armies of starships.

If he uses that speed why won't it help?

Originally posted by h1a8
If he uses that speed why won't it help?


Because shes too fast herself, and he would have to deal with her energy beams as well. Thats simply not happening. Shes basically like the Silver Surfer.

Captain Marvel destroys

Shes fast flying around yes. He's much faster and basically is Flash/Superman level as in he zips around invisible he's moving so fast. Has Marvel dealt with that? Has she shown enhanced perception that let's her deal with speed on that level? Because at the moment the fastest person in Marvel in terms of pure speed is Quicksilver and he couldn't deal with minigun rounds.

Just want to point out that they're both pretty much newbs at this point. Shazam has only fought one opponent but it was a superpowered opponent that really tested his mettle.

Danvers fought more opponents but she's never fought an opponent that could truly challenge her power.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because shes too fast herself, and he would have to deal with her energy beams as well. Thats simply not happening. Shes basically like the Silver Surfer.

But she's not fast at all. She only has human level reactions. He can literally tag her before one neuron fires in her brain. I would say his speed can help him.

Originally posted by h1a8
But she's not fast at all. She only has human level reactions. He can literally tag her before one neuron fires in her brain. I would say his speed can help him.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove it.

Prove what?

^^ How do you see CM doing against Sivana?

^ Blast him away.

Originally posted by h1a8

He does have the ability to blitz her before she completes a thought simply because she only has human level reactions.


You need proof to show he has the ability to blitz someone on her caliber.

And you still havent explained what “tagging” her will even do.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You need proof to show he has the ability to blitz someone on her caliber.

And you still havent explained what “tagging” her will even do.

Premise1: Carol has human level reactions
Premise2: Shazam can tag a human, within battle distance, faster than they can react.
Conclusion: Shazam can tag Carol before she can react, within battle distance.

This is a deductive argument. It is only invalid if one of the premises is false.

Originally posted by h1a8
Premise1: Carol has human level reactions
Premise2: Shazam can tag a human, within battle distance, faster than they can react.
Conclusion: Shazam can tag Carol before she can react, within battle distance.

This is a deductive argument. It is only invalid if one of the premises is false.

Prove both premises are true.

Originally posted by h1a8
Premise1: Carol has human level reactions
Premise2: Shazam can tag a human, within battle distance, faster than they can react.
Conclusion: Shazam can tag Carol before she can react, within battle distance.

This is a deductive argument. It is only invalid if one of the premises is false.


Fact 1: Carol flies and fights at super sonic speeds, even light speeds. She has AOE attacks.

Fact 2: Shazam has never blitzed a combatant who flies and fights at super sonic speeds. Or a combatant with AOE attacks.

Fact 3: Fact > Premise

Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove both premises are true.
Premise 1 is true because we never see Carol react to something in less than 0.2 of a second after it happened.

Premise 2 is true because we see Shazam actually getting from point A to B faster than a human can react to.

Originally posted by h1a8
Premise 1 is true because we never see Carol react to something in less than 0.2 of a second after it happened.

Premise 2 is true because we see Shazam actually getting from point A to B faster than a human can react to.

Nobody is going to take your word for it, provide proof.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nobody is going to take your word for it, provide proof. Premise1: Is a negative. There is no burden of proof.


Premise2: The scenes where Shazam uses his speed to get from point A to B.

Since you have provided no proof, your argument is thrown out. Thus Carol wins by default.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since you have provided no proof, your argument is thrown out. Thus Carol wins by default.

Only in your mind.

Ok, name one person besides yourself that thinks you've provided proof in this thread.

I don't need to in order for my argument be valid.
If you disagree with any of the premises then you should explain why. Otherwise you are trolling.

As you provided no proof, you have no argument.

Thus Carol wins by default.

Originally posted by Silent Master
As you provided no proof, you have no argument.

Thus Carol wins by default.

In your mind.

Ok, name one person besides yourself that thinks you've provided proof in this thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't need to in order for my argument be valid.
If you disagree with any of the premises then you should explain why. Otherwise you are trolling.

No proof = argument thrown out.

In your mind

Fine, I'll get a mod ruling.

You can do whatever you like. Just make sure you don't twist things.

I agree.
That's why my argument holds.

No, that is why your argument doesn't hold. because you haven't provided any proof. you just want us to take your word for what you claim the movies show.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, that is why your argument doesn't hold. because you haven't provided any proof. you just want us to take your word for what you claim the movies show.

No, it's exactly why it holds. She has no on screen feats of her reacting to things that happen as fast as Shazam has blitzed instantly.
To be specific, she never showed beyond human reaction times.
Shazam has multiple times ON SCREEN traveled from point A to B faster than a human can react to.

If the screen feats show Shazam moving very much faster than normal human reaction, then what's the argument?

Originally posted by Impediment
If the screen feats show Shazam moving very much faster than normal human reaction, then what's the argument?

Among other things, he hasn't provided any proof for any of his multiple claims, he wants us to just take his word for what the movies show in regards to Billy and Carol's speed.

IOW, he wants us to use his interpretation of the movie, rather than the movie itself.

Shazam is consistently shown moving at super speed. He crossed a city in seconds to stop that bus.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Among other things, he hasn't provided any proof for any of his multiple claims, he wants us to just take his word for what the movies show in regards to Billy and Carol's speed.

IOW, he wants us to use his interpretation of the movie, rather than the movie itself. I only claimed one thing. Shazam can tag her before she can respond. You are the one trolling here.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Shazam is consistently shown moving at super speed. He crossed a city in seconds to stop that bus.

This

Originally posted by h1a8
I only claimed one thing. Shazam can tag her before she can respond. You are the one trolling here.

Which you haven't proven.

If Shazam is clearly shown moving at hyper/sub-sonic speeds, then I see no reason to disagree.

It's like saying Quicksilver couldn't tag her. Or the Flash. Or Superman, who matched Flash's speed.

Originally posted by Impediment
If Shazam is clearly shown moving at hyper/sub-sonic speeds, then I see no reason to disagree.

It's like saying Quicksilver couldn't tag her. Or the Flash. Or Superman, who matched Flash's speed.

Nobody is disagreeing that he's fast, the disagreement is that he's fast enough to tag Carol before she even moves, given her own speed feats.

So far h1 has provided no proof that Billy is orders of magnitude faster than Carol, like he's claiming.

Nobody's saying Carol isn't fast, but everyone has reaction limits. Shazam could tag her, given his speed feats on screen.

Is there evidence to show that Carol could react fast enough to dodge?

Originally posted by Impediment
Nobody's saying Carol isn't fast, but everyone has reaction limits. Shazam could tag her, given his speed feats on screen.

Is there evidence to show that Carol could react fast enough to dodge?

h1 is, he has repeatedly claimed that she only has human level perceptions.

How do we know she doesn't have said perceptions? We have to be concrete.

Originally posted by Impediment
How do we know she doesn't have said perceptions? We have to be concrete.

That is how debates work isn't it, the person who makes a claim has to provide proof. right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
That is how debates work isn't it, the person who makes a claim has to provide proof. right?

100%.

Did you show proof that she does or doesn't have super human reactions?

Originally posted by Impediment
100%.

Did you show proof that she does or doesn't have super human reactions?

I never made a claim about her reactions, h1 made the claim.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I never made a claim about her reactions, h1 made the claim.

Okay, cool.

Can you counter it? That's how debates work, too.

Originally posted by Impediment
Okay, cool.

Can you counter it? That's how debates work, too.

The debate was between him and DT, I've just been trying to point out that h1 hasn't provided any proof for his claims. which resulted in him saying that evidence isn't needed for an argument to be valid.

Both sides are obligated to provide why or why not said claim can or cannot happen instead of parroting the same responses to one another.

If either party flat out refuses to provide why or why not it can't happen, then the argument is moot.

That's my ruling.

Originally posted by Impediment
Both sides are obligated to provide why or why not said claim can or cannot happen instead of parroting the same responses to one another.

If either party flat out refuses to provide why or why not it can't happen, then the argument is moot.

That's my ruling.

Which was my stance.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No proof = argument thrown out.

You're still obligated to show proof otherwise, SM.

Originally posted by Impediment
You're still obligated to show proof otherwise, SM.




Basically SM want me to show proof of Carol NEVER showing herself to have superhuman reactions. This is a negative. Basically I have to show the entire movie as proof

Then SM want me to show Shazam using his speed to instantly get from point A to B. When anyone who watched the movie seen it MULTIPLE TIMES. Me just mentioning the feats is me providing evidence (especially for those who seen the movie).

SM doesn't debate a side. He trolls. He does not take a side but rather attempts to criticize others arguments, even when they are not addressed to him.

Originally posted by Impediment
Both sides are obligated to provide why or why not said claim can or cannot happen instead of parroting the same responses to one another.

If either party flat out refuses to provide why or why not it can't happen, then the argument is moot.

That's my ruling.

I agree.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Nobody is disagreeing that he's fast, the disagreement is that he's fast enough to tag Carol before she even moves, given her own speed feats.

So far h1 has provided no proof that Billy is orders of magnitude faster than Carol, like he's claiming. The only speed feats Carol had were in flight.

^ So as long as she is flying she is fine.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ So as long as she is flying she is fine. Not when she only has human level reactions she isnt.

^ Based on what does she have normal human level reactions?

And based on what can Shazam blitz someone with wide spread Uber powerful energy blasts who can fly and combat at super sonic speeds?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Based on what does she have normal human level reactions?

And based on what can Shazam blitz someone with wide spread Uber powerful energy blasts who can fly and combat at super sonic speeds?

Based on her having 0 feats of superhuman reactions.
Negatives don't have to be proven.

Shazam can tag anyone with human level reactions before they can act.

Originally posted by h1a8
Based on her having 0 feats of superhuman reactions.
Negatives don't have to be proven.

Shazam can tag anyone with human level reactions before they can act.


Well technically Shazam also has zero feats of blitzing people before they can react IIRC.

But the main point which you keep avoiding is Cap Marvel is no normal human and can can fight at supersonic speeds in the air taking down spaceships. Thats not normal human speed Lol

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well technically Shazam also has zero feats of blitzing people before they can react IIRC.

But the main point which you keep avoiding is Cap Marvel is no normal human and can can fight at supersonic speeds in the air taking down spaceships. Thats not normal human speed Lol

You keep referring to travel speed. That has nothing to do with reaction speed. You are basically missing the point.

Sry

Originally posted by h1a8
You keep referring to travel speed. That has nothing to do with reaction speed. You are basically missing the point.


Given she was fighting at those speeds, I think you are both missing the point and failing to get your point across.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Given she was fighting at those speeds, I think you are both missing the point and failing to get your point across.

She can't respond faster than a normal human can. That means he can tag her before she acts. That also mean she can't navigate beyond a certain speed within certain distances from objects.

So how fast is the lightning?

If it's as fast as lightning, can she dodge it (As Flash, Black Adam, Superman, and Cap himself has in the comics?)

Originally posted by h1a8
She can't respond faster than a normal human can. That means he can tag her before she acts. That also mean she can't navigate beyond a certain speed within certain distances from objects.

tsk...tsk..tsk...


Originally posted by cdtm
So how fast is the lightning?

If it's as fast as lightning, can she dodge it (As Flash, Black Adam, Superman, and Cap himself has in the comics?)


no reason why she couldn't dodge it.. In fact Shazam never used his lightning when he fought Silvana IIRC.

Originally posted by h1a8
She can't respond faster than a normal human can. That means he can tag her before she acts. That also mean she can't navigate beyond a certain speed within certain distances from objects.


All evidence points to the contrary. See the final battle in Cap Marvel.

Its a good time to catch a rewatch with Avengers Endgame out in a couple of days.

The issue I see here is that Captain Brie Larson is in BINARY form here. In binary form, she could fly through multiple starships like runners run through a tape finish line. She could stop and push throw back a missile back at other multiple missiles. Flew through/around a black hole.

I mean, those stats are high, high, very high, and I don't see how Billy takes her down. Could he still speed blitz her? Yes, but her durability and power output are too much for it to matter.

Out of binary, yes, he speed blitzes and punches her to death.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
All evidence points to the contrary. See the final battle in Cap Marvel.

Its a good time to catch a rewatch with Avengers Endgame out in a couple of days. Carol never was shown to react to something in less time than a normal human could.

So you are claiming that she has significantly faster than human reactions. Prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Carol never was shown to react to something in less time than a normal human could.

So you are claiming that she has significantly faster than human reactions. Prove it.


Tell me is it easier to shoot a stationary human stood right in front of you, or a bird flying in the air?

Cap Marvel moves and combats at vast speeds. Shes literally battled an army of spaceships. So I dont see why I have to prove anything, when you havent even given a convincing argument what a speed blitz from Shazam would even do to Cap Marvel.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Tell me is it easier to shoot a stationary human stood right in front of you, or a bird flying in the air?

Cap Marvel moves and combats at vast speeds. Shes literally battled an army of spaceships. So I dont see why I have to prove anything, when you havent even given a convincing argument what a speed blitz from Shazam would even do to Cap Marvel.

Battle distance is small.
Shazam can instantly pop her the moment the bell rings.
Let's say Shazam allows her to move after the bell. What would she do? Fly side to side?

Originally posted by h1a8
Battle distance is small.



Says who?

Was the battle distance small in Cap Marvel vs the Kree fight? Or Shazam vs Sivans?

Neither of these combatants lends well to a small fighting distance.


Originally posted by h1a8

Shazam can instantly pop her the moment the bell rings.



This is you just dreaming now. Cap Marvel has taken blasts from Kree battleships. What feat does Shazam have that compares? Catching a bus? Lol


Originally posted by h1a8

Let's say Shazam allows her to move after the bell. What would she do? Fly side to side?


Again, how did she fight the Kree? She can evade hits, and take hits. And you are yet to show how Shazam can avoid her AOE attacks.

This whole blitz and popping her is a strange fantasy in your head.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Says who?

Was the battle distance small in Cap Marvel vs the Kree fight? Or Shazam vs Sivans?

Neither of these combatants lends well to a small fighting distance.





This is you just dreaming now. Cap Marvel has taken blasts from Kree battleships. What feat does Shazam have that compares? Catching a bus? Lol





Again, how did she fight the Kree? She can evade hits, and take hits. And you are yet to show how Shazam can avoid her AOE attacks.

This whole blitz and popping her is a strange fantasy in your head.

I'm referring to the the size of the battlefield in forum rules and how far apart the combatants start from each other. Leaving the battlefield is not allowed.

Without feats, you can only speculate how powerful Kree blasts are. Plus energy blasts and blunt force are two different things.

Shazam was able to zip to a location and stop on a dime. This means his perception speed is vastly greater than a human. She would appear in slow-mo after he allows her to move.

Carol travels far slower in an atmosphere than in space (no drag forces).
Plus it takes her time to accelerate to a certain speed.

Again at the start of the bell she can get popped before she can act.

Originally posted by h1a8
1)I'm referring to the the size of the battlefield in forum rules and how far apart the combatants start from each other. Leaving the battlefield is not allowed.

2)Without feats, you can only speculate how powerful Kree blasts are. Plus energy blasts and blunt force are two different things.

3)Shazam was able to zip to a location and stop on a dime. This means his perception speed is vastly greater than a human. She would appear in slow-mo after he allows her to move.

4)Carol travels far slower in an atmosphere than in space (no drag forces).
Plus it takes her time to accelerate to a certain speed.

5)Again at the start of the bell she can get popped before she can act.

1) Nope. Forum rules you can leave the battlefield as long as you can get back within a reasonable time. They dont have to fight within a confined space. Neither of these characters would.

2) Those ships cane to wipe out the Earth lol. Plus there were rockets/missiles IIRC, so blunt Force was included.

3) So what? Carols blasts are faster than him. And she flies just as fast as him (if not faster).

4) Conjecture.

5) What with the strength to catch a bus? Lol. Stop fantasising and actually bring an argument to your side of the debate. Hint: You cant because Shazam has neither the strength feats or speed feats to show he could blitz Cap Marvel. Heck he hasnt even shown he can avoid her blasts.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Nope. Forum rules you can leave the battlefield as long as you can get back within a reasonable time. They dont have to fight within a confined space. Neither of these characters would.

2) Those ships cane to wipe out the Earth lol. Plus there were rockets/missiles IIRC, so blunt Force was included.

3) So what? Carols blasts are faster than him. And she flies just as fast as him (if not faster).

4) Conjecture.

5) What with the strength to catch a bus? Lol. Stop fantasising and actually bring an argument to your side of the debate. Hint: You cant because Shazam has neither the strength feats or speed feats to show he could blitz Cap Marvel. Heck he hasnt even shown he can avoid her blasts.

Purposely leaving the battlefield is not allowed. If a character gets knocked out of the battlefield then they have a certain amount of time to get back.

I saw her get hit with energy blasts. Even if she got hit with material objects then you have to prove the magnitude of the blunt force aspect of the feat.

You can't use space feats for in atmosphere feats.
Flying speed is not combat speed. A character will only travel as fast as they can respond to objects around them (to not run into them). And it takes time to accelerate to a certain speed in an atmosphere.

Shazam moving at a fraction of the speed can avoid her blasts. Remember she only has human level reactions and perception. That's if Shazam allows her to operate.

Originally posted by h1a8
1)Purposely leaving the battlefield is not allowed. If a character gets knocked out of the battlefield then they have a certain amount of time to get back.

2)I saw her get hit with energy blasts. Even if she got hit with material objects then you have to prove the magnitude of the blunt force aspect of the feat.

3)You can't use space feats for in atmosphere feats.
Flying speed is not combat speed. A character will only travel as fast as they can respond to objects around them (to not run into them). And it takes time to accelerate to a certain speed in an atmosphere.

4)Shazam moving at a fraction of the speed can avoid her blasts. Remember she only has human level reactions and perception. That's if Shazam allows her to operate.


1)Themyscyra is a big Island to fly around. Stop trying to manipulate the rules to suit you.

2) Alien spaceships with power to destroy the Earth > catching a bus.

3) Of course we can! When youre that powerful (jump further, faster) the difference between flying through the atmosphere and in space is going to be minute, if at all. She did leap into space herself after all.
She did fly in combat, so its relevant. Stop pretending she just flew into space and never fought anyone at while doing so.

4) Proof? Show feats of Shazam avoiding such blasts.

The actual Movie Versus forum rules are ON SCREEN FEATS ONLY. Not the fantasy you have in your head of how things would go down.

Carol stomps lmfao

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1)Themyscyra is a big Island to fly around. Stop trying to manipulate the rules to suit you.

2) Alien spaceships with power to destroy the Earth > catching a bus.

3) Of course we can! When youre that powerful (jump further, faster) the difference between flying through the atmosphere and in space is going to be minute, if at all. She did leap into space herself after all.
She did fly in combat, so its relevant. Stop pretending she just flew into space and never fought anyone at while doing so.

4) Proof? Show feats of Shazam avoiding such blasts.

The actual Movie Versus forum rules are ON SCREEN FEATS ONLY. Not the fantasy you have in your head of how things would go down.

1. I didn't know the OP set a specific place. But characters do start rather close to each other. Carol is not going to fly away at the start of the bell.

2. Prove that those blasts she took can destroy an entire planet.

3. No you can't. Drag forces slow down motion TREMENDOUSLY when traveling at high speeds. Use only her feats of traveling in an atmosphere for atmosphere fights.

You ignored "A character will only travel as fast as they can respond to objects around them (to not run into them). And it takes time to accelerate to a certain speed in an atmosphere." As shown ON SCREEN.

4. Prove that Carol can hit a human sized object traveling faster than a human can respond.

I was one of those who vehemently argued that MOS/BvS Superman only had movement superspeed, not combat superspeed. It wasn't until JL that I changed my opinion on this because he had legit feats of showcasing combat superspeed.

So with that said, I feel it would be unfair (and hypocritical) of me to not apply the same standard to Captain Marvel. She does have legit flight superspeed, I think that's unquestionable. But she has zero feats of applying the same speed to running, hand to hand combat, or any other action that's more complex than moving in a straight line.

Does she have fast reflexes? Of course she does. Majority of these superheroes do. But I don't think it would be fair to say she has lightspeed reflexes simply because she can fly at light speed.

I still think she wins the match, I just don't think she has the speed advantage over Shazam.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. I didn't know the OP set a specific place. But characters do start rather close to each other. Carol is not going to fly away at the start of the bell.

2. Prove that those blasts she took can destroy an entire planet.

3. No you can't. Drag forces slow down motion TREMENDOUSLY when traveling at high speeds. Use only her feats of traveling in an atmosphere for atmosphere fights.

You ignored "A character will only travel as fast as they can respond to objects around them (to not run into them). And it takes time to accelerate to a certain speed in an atmosphere." As shown ON SCREEN.

4. Prove that Carol can hit a human sized object traveling faster than a human can respond.


1. No she will fire blasts at him at the ring of the bell.

2. Im not claiming each blast was a planet buster lol. Just that the armada was capable of wiping us out. And obviously superior to Earths military forces.

3. She was plenty fast leaping into space.

4. Is Shazam faster than Carols energy blasts? Given how widespread her blasts are and given Shazam (as per you) will just bulrush towards her, it would be hard for her to miss.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I was one of those who vehemently argued that MOS/BvS Superman only had movement superspeed, not combat superspeed. It wasn't until JL that I changed my opinion on this because he had legit feats of showcasing combat superspeed.

So with that said, I feel it would be unfair (and hypocritical) of me to not apply the same standard to Captain Marvel. She does have legit flight superspeed, I think that's unquestionable. But she has zero feats of applying the same speed to running, hand to hand combat, or any other action that's more complex than moving in a straight line.

Does she have fast reflexes? Of course she does. Majority of these superheroes do. But I don't think it would be fair to say she has lightspeed reflexes simply because she can fly at light speed.

I still think she wins the match, I just don't think she has the speed advantage over Shazam.


Well no ones claiming she has the speed advantage over him, or even that shes faster. Just that between her flight speed and energy blasts, dealing with Shazam wont be much of a problem. And even if he hits her, she can absolutely take it.

As for flight speed vs combat speed, I would say her flight feats land somewhere in between those 2 mediums.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I was one of those who vehemently argued that MOS/BvS Superman only had movement superspeed, not combat superspeed. You are a bit of a retard yeah.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You are a bit of a retard yeah.

I simply call out feats as I see it. I had no problems attributing combat superspeed to Superman once he had the feats to back it up.

Billy doesn't use his combat speed like Clark, he was moving slow af when he was fighting Sivana in the park

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1. No she will fire blasts at him at the ring of the bell.

2. Im not claiming each blast was a planet buster lol. Just that the armada was capable of wiping us out. And obviously superior to Earths military forces.

3. She was plenty fast leaping into space.

4. Is Shazam faster than Carols energy blasts? Given how widespread her blasts are and given Shazam (as per you) will just bulrush towards her, it would be hard for her to miss.

1. He would have zipped her before she moves the first 1in.
2. She got hit from some random energy blasts from small fodder ships. You have to prove that those ships can wipe ANYTHING out (even a truck). And energy blasts and blunt force are two different things, especially considering it looked like she absorbed the blasts.

3. She didn't leap into space. She flew from the atmosphere to space. It took her quite a bit of time to do that. I don't know what you are talking about.

4. You are not faster than a bullet, yet I would have difficulty shooting you if you were running laterally from my perspective. She has human level perceptions. And yes, her blasts appeared no faster than him, not that it matters.


Basically, If Shazam decides to always use his speed then Carol will have a problem the moment the bell rings. She wouldn't be able to track or follow him (if he just wanted to play around). Her blasts would be useless.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. He would have zipped her before she moves the first 1in.
2. She got hit from some random energy blasts from small fodder ships. You have to prove that those ships can wipe ANYTHING out (even a truck). And energy blasts and blunt force are two different things, especially considering it looked like she absorbed the blasts.

3. She didn't leap into space. She flew from the atmosphere to space. It took her quite a bit of time to do that. I don't know what you are talking about.

4. You are not faster than a bullet, yet I would have difficulty shooting you if you were running laterally from my perspective. She has human level perceptions. And yes, her blasts appeared no faster than him, not that it matters.


Basically, If Shazam decides to always use his speed then Carol will have a problem the moment the bell rings. She wouldn't be able to track or follow him (if he just wanted to play around). Her blasts would be useless.

Since you claim to have seen the movie, why don't you tell everyone how often Shazam uses his full speed during fights.

Originally posted by carthage
Billy doesn't use his combat speed like Clark, he was moving slow af when he was fighting Sivana in the park

He doesn't. That's why I think neither of them has the speed advantage.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since you claim to have seen the movie, why don't you tell everyone how often Shazam uses his full speed during fights.

This was my very first post.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Shazam uses speed mostly then he wins. If they fight at nearly the same speed then she wins.

sorry h1 but Shazam really truly doesn't stand a chance..

Originally posted by h1a8
This was my very first post.

That didn't answer my question, my question is how often was Shazam actually shown using speed during fights.

You didnt see the movie?

If you actually saw the movie, you would be able to answer the question.

Originally posted by h1a8
You didnt see the movie?


everyone in here EXCEPT YOU has seen both Shazam and Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you actually saw the movie, you would be able to answer the question. True
And if you saw it then you wouldnt need to ask such questions.

Originally posted by h1a8
True
And if you saw it then you wouldnt need to ask such questions.

I know the answer, the point is to see if you know it.

Sry

Originally posted by Silent Master
I know the answer, the point is to see if you know it.

Cool story.

IOW, you didn't watch the movie.