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The phrase "Winners get to write history" couldn't be more accurate when it comes to the many shady things the United States has done over the centuries. One of the worst atrocities it has committed, in my mind, was the dropping of nukes on Japan:



Source



When we put our objective thinking caps on, it is hard to see just how this act could not be considered a crime against humanity / war crime / genocidal act.


Harry Truman was a war criminal no better than Hitler. He was a racist against Japanese:




Source



Arguments for this being classified as war crimes:





Source



TL;DR

- Truman was noted to be a racist against the Japanese (also black people too, fun fact)
- The bombs were dropped purely for political purposes against the USSR
- Truman was ready to annihilate Japan (genocidal) if two nukes didn't do it
- Japan was already blockaded, being invaded by USSR. They would have surrendered very soon without the nukes being dropped.
- The United States gets away with war crimes all the damn time.

Don't start none, won't be none.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Don't start none, won't be none.

This, all day and every day.

How many innocent people were murdered at Pearl Harbor?

Originally posted by Impediment
This, all day and every day.

How many innocent people were murdered at Pearl Harbor? Absolutely no comparison. Pearl harbor had 68 civilian deaths. Only 2500 total including military casualties. Dropping a WMD on urban cities is a whole other level.


Plus the it was the US Imperialists who were provoking the Japanese with embargos and occupations of South-east Asia.

"Only 2500".

Where does one draw the line on innocent deaths?

Rape of Nanking

KMC is so slow that people are arguing with overt trolls.

War is War. If you want to discuss morality, I believe it was the morally correct thing for the U.S. to end the war as quickly and as totally as possible. Nagasaki and Hiroshima made it very clear.

Do not f*ck with the U.S. There has yet to be a hot World War since. Compared to the preceding....well everything of human history, that's a goddamn miracle.

Also this:
Originally posted by Silent Master
Don't start none, won't be none.

Talk shit get hit. The only war crime was dropping just two.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Talk shit get hit. The only war crime was dropping just two.

My uncle died in his 50's in 1978 because of the way he was treated as a POW by Japan. I have Japanese friends, it's the past, long ago. Dropping the bombs saved allied lives, and in a war which had gone on too long and seen too many allies die, it needed to happen.

to my mind it was war crime.

This was a War Crime, yes. "B-but Pearl Harbour" isn't a good defense, since it had far, far fewer deaths and was specifically targetting millitary bases. Nearby hospitals and civilians points were untouched. Plus it wasn't used as a testing grounds for radioactive properties.

This isn't to say the Japanese were exactly innocent. They also committed a lot War Crimes themselves, so I guess you could say they had it coming.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Some people may not like it, but I don't believe it's ever been ruled a war crime.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Don't start none, won't be none.

Sometimes when you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

So American troops invading Japan and beginning what could have been the bloodiest battle ever is a better option?

Originally posted by TempAccount
The phrase "Winners get to write history" couldn't be more accurate when it comes to the many shady things the United States has done over the centuries. One of the worst atrocities it has committed, in my mind, was the dropping of nukes on Japan:



Source



When we put our objective thinking caps on, it is hard to see just how this act could not be considered a crime against humanity / war crime / genocidal act.


Harry Truman was a war criminal no better than Hitler. He was a racist against Japanese:




Source



Arguments for this being classified as war crimes:





Source



TL;DR

- Truman was noted to be a racist against the Japanese (also black people too, fun fact)
- The bombs were dropped purely for political purposes against the USSR
- Truman was ready to annihilate Japan (genocidal) if two nukes didn't do it
- Japan was already blockaded, being invaded by USSR. They would have surrendered very soon without the nukes being dropped.
- The United States gets away with war crimes all the damn time.

Should have surrendered as soon as Hitler was defeated, but you guys didn't.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0IyhKF1MNYjKSVs4/giphy.gif

It's a tragedy. Because lives, many of which that wouldn't support a war on the behest of their government, were lost that day. But I can't help feel it was necessary to prevent a bloodier ground war. For it's practical implications it was probably a wise decision. Perhaps there would have been a better way to display strength without targeting so many no military people. But I'm no expert on WW2 combat, so perhaps not.

I love reading arguments about the ethics of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think it's a very nuanced and complex issue and for the US there was simply no good choice to make. Japan was refusing to surrender because of their national pride thus creating a possibility of a prolonged war. America wanted it done and so made the tough call to drop the nukes. However there are a lot of historians who apparently believe that had America waited a bit longer Japan may have surrendered shortly anyways. Also I think I've read that America didn't really understand the level of devastation and lingering issues that the nukes would cause.

Either way, it's a horrible thing and there are plenty of criticisms to be levied at America, but Japan holds a lot of the blame as well for their stubbornness.

It is clear many did not read the articles presented in OP.

1. Harry Truman was a racist who openly stated he hated Japanese people as early the 1920's . I would wager that this mentality played a factor in his decision to nuke. Can you imagine if Trump did something similar against a group he's racist towards?

2. Pearl Harbor is a joke of a "eye-for-an-eye" argument. 2500 military personnel are not innocent lives. The Japanese only targeted military targets, not civilian populations.

3. Two wrongs don't make a right. Japan may have committed heinous crimes of its own, but none compare to the level of dropping an experimental death weapon without understanding the repercussions for the future.

On the topic of of Nanjing, just like the so called Armenian genocide, actions committed are highly circumstantial and not clear cut. Death figures from this era are never accurate and can be twisted as needed for political purposes.

In case you are curious, the Allies during WW2 committed more than their fair share of war crimes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II)
Of course you rarely hear about them as the winners write history. There's no one left to hold the US accountable.


4. Nukes were completely unnecessary as Japan was, by the end of the war, essentially and island nation cut-off from the rest of the world. The Soviets were rapidly invading Manchuria with plans for invading the Japanese mainland. The US had the naval advantage with a blockade pretty much cutting off Japan's life-line to food/energy imports.

They would be forced to surrender or have their people starve, which is a comparable effect to mass murder of innocents via nuke.


5. The US was playing realpolitik by initiating the cold war with an arms demonstration against Russia rather than genuinely expressing interest in not prolonging the war.

Everybody read them clearly. They also clearly saw the picture of Emperor Hirohito in your sig. Don't act like you're a neutral party here and don't have an agenda.

It's pretty obvious you're saying, "IGNORE EVERYTHING BAD JAPAN DID! I WANT US TO BE MAD AT AMERICA!!!"

Because saying "2500 military personnel death weren't "innocent" just because they're enlisted is just insane. Was every single person a badass infantryman with a massive kill count in WW2? Or were there non-combat staff on that massive base as well? And their families who lived on base? I guess janitors, mechanics, cooks, support staff, etc... were all active combatants who attacked Japan first to warrant a surprise attack.

Karma is a b****.

Originally posted by TempAccount
It is clear many did not read the articles presented in OP.

1. Harry Truman was a racist who openly stated he hated Japanese people as early the 1920's . I would wager that this mentality played a factor in his decision to nuke. Can you imagine if Trump did something similar against a group he's racist towards?

2. Pearl Harbor is a joke of a "eye-for-an-eye" argument. 2500 military personnel are not innocent lives. The Japanese only targeted military targets, not civilian populations.

3. Two wrongs don't make a right. Japan may have committed heinous crimes of its own, but none compare to the level of dropping an experimental death weapon without understanding the repercussions for the future.

On the topic of of Nanjing, just like the so called Armenian genocide, actions committed are highly circumstantial and not clear cut. Death figures from this era are never accurate and can be twisted as needed for political purposes.

In case you are curious, the Allies during WW2 committed more than their fair share of war crimes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II)
Of course you rarely hear about them as the winners write history. There's no one left to hold the US accountable.


4. Nukes were completely unnecessary as Japan was, by the end of the war, essentially and island nation cut-off from the rest of the world. The Soviets were rapidly invading Manchuria with plans for invading the Japanese mainland. The US had the naval advantage with a blockade pretty much cutting off Japan's life-line to food/energy imports.

They would be forced to surrender or have their people starve, which is a comparable effect to mass murder of innocents via nuke.


5. The US was playing realpolitik by initiating the cold war with an arms demonstration against Russia rather than genuinely expressing interest in not prolonging the war.

.........??? A joke?

Also, Japan started a War with America. In a global world war, the ends justify the means, if the end is a swift and quick ending minimizing the total number of lives lost imo. The sheer scale of it....trying to define it by some moral/ethical compass, or saying it was an act of racism? Lol.

Originally posted by TempAccount


2. Pearl Harbor is a joke of a "eye-for-an-eye" argument. 2500 military personnel are not innocent lives. The Japanese only targeted military targets, not civilian populations.

3. Two wrongs don't make a right. Japan may have committed heinous crimes of its own, but none compare to the level of dropping an experimental death weapon without understanding the repercussions for the future

Tell that to the Chinese whom Japan tested chemical and biological weapons on killing 400,000 with cholera, bubonic plague and anthrax.

Then there was the testing of grenades and flamethrowers on chained up civilians. The vivisections without anaesthesia. The freezing and smashing of limbs to test frostbite. Putting people in high pressure chambers until they died. Spinning people in giant centrifuges until they died.

So yeah. Shut up.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Tell that to the Chinese whom Japan tested chemical and biological weapons on killing 400,000 with cholera, bubonic plague and anthrax.

Then there was the testing of grenades and flamethrowers on chained up civilians. The vivisections without anaesthesia. The freezing and smashing of limbs to test frostbite. Putting people in high pressure chambers until they died. Spinning people in giant centrifuges until they died.

So yeah. Shut up.


So the point here is that America covered not one but two crimes against humanity?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
.........??? A joke?

Also, Japan started a War with America. In a global world war, the ends justify the means, if the end is a swift and quick ending minimizing the total number of lives lost imo. The sheer scale of it....trying to define it by some moral/ethical compass, or saying it was an act of racism? Lol. It was the US that started the war with Japan by putting in place oil embargos. Japan had no choice but to invade the Philippines to sustain its country. Of course being that American Imperialism had the Philippines, they had to attack Pearl Harbor as a defensive measure.

Again, the war was already over by the time the US took over Okinawa. Soviets would have invaded the mainland if the US didn't; so they played realpolitik and dropped the nukes. Japan would have surrendered in time by simply keeping a naval blockade. The problem was that the cold war had begun and the US did not want to go to war with the Soviets over Japan. But yeah, killing 200,000 plus civilians definitely was a better outcome *sarcasm*.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Tell that to the Chinese whom Japan tested chemical and biological weapons on killing 400,000 with cholera, bubonic plague and anthrax.

Then there was the testing of grenades and flamethrowers on chained up civilians. The vivisections without anaesthesia. The freezing and smashing of limbs to test frostbite. Putting people in high pressure chambers until they died. Spinning people in giant centrifuges until they died.

So yeah. Shut up.
Evidence for unit 731 was actually swept under the rug by the United States in exchange for the findings from those experiments. They granted immunity to experimenters in exchange for info. Very shady of the USA. Clearly they didn't care about the suffering of victims.

Also let's not forget the Tuskegee syphilis experiment conducted by the good 'ol U S of A.

The point is, the US has always been just as awful. What they've done for centuries pales in comparison to the things Imperial Japan has done for only a relatively short period of time.

Originally posted by TempAccount

Evidence for unit 731 was actually swept under the rug by the United States in exchange for the findings from those experiments. They granted immunity to experimenters in exchange for info. Very shady of the USA. Clearly they didn't care about the suffering of victims.

Also let's not forget the Tuskegee syphilis experiment conducted by the good 'ol U S of A.

The point is, the US has always been just as awful. What they've done for centuries pales in comparison to the things Imperial Japan has done for only a relatively short period of time.

So you knew about unit 731 when making your claim that Japan didn't drop experimental weapons and kill 200,000 civilians?

I suppose you're technically correct. They dropped experimental weapons and killed 400,000 civilians.

dxa0GGJNWtI

and if japan had won the war, today they'd be coming up with lame excuses as to why unit 731 was "tragic, but necessary to end the war"

You probably would.

nobody cares about your ad hominem phaggotry, s&m.

I was agreeing with you, calm down.

Originally posted by Silent Master
dxa0GGJNWtI
-Oy_f08Ss_4

Temp is just mad America out fought, out thought and developed better tech than his precious Japan.

we just adopted hitler's scientists to figure out how to make an atomic bomb, but overall japanese hardware was superior to allied for most of the war

Originally posted by TempAccount
-Oy_f08Ss_4

Your sig and "taisho" aren't of modern japan, we all know why you have a thing for classic japan.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
My uncle died in his 50's in 1978 because of the way he was treated as a POW by Japan. I have Japanese friends, it's the past, long ago. Dropping the bombs saved allied lives, and in a war which had gone on too long and seen too many allies die, it needed to happen. Plus WW2 was total war. A concept we struggle to understand today. The main difference between nuking a city and carpet bombing a city (with regard to civilian deaths) is how fast the destruction occurs.

"完璧なシナの捏造でしか無い。ナレーションは英米人が話してるようであるが
そもそもカトリック教徒が１６世紀以降有色人種をどれぐらい虐殺してきたのか。
我々はフィリピンでもインドネシアでも現地の国民とは戦っていない。
そこを植民地にしていた白人と戦った。にも、関わらず、シナ人は白人側に
付いたではないのか。それが真実の歴史だ。"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Allegations_of_biological_warfare_in_the_Korean_Wa
r


"This is all fake, all korean and chinese propaganda has any really seen a footage, a video of the rape of nanjing? No because it is fake"


"Japanese officials apologized multiple times, but they don't want to accept it. Still the Chinese newspapers don't discuss the 30 million chinese who died in the Great Leap Forward from 1958 to 1962 or the Tianamen Square protests in 1982. Or the millions who died in labour camps of the Chinese Communist Party. Or the autrocities against the Tibetans, Mongols and Uyghurs. All these things happened after world war 2. That's hypocrisy."



"Lies, Japan 🇯🇵 liberated Asia from British colonialism"



"interesting no name provided of the supposed perpetrators, please do one on English war crimes example the Black and Tans in Ireland 1920-1922, The slaughter in Kenya 1956, India, South Africa Boer War the invention of the Concentration camp, 28,000 women and children starved to death and lots more
No Japanese were executed for crimes against humanity as the Tokyo Trial judges accepted that you cannot prosecute someone for a crime that was not recognised as a crime at the time of it occurrence"



"Am I Japanese and honestly? What a stupid video, Japan tried to free the White Asia and provide a high standard of living and a quality education, as we had already done in our colonies (Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan), it is no coincidence that Korea and Taiwan are the best places to live in Asia, and Manchuria was for decades the most developed region of China, the highest literacy rates outside the White countries were Japan and its Colonies.

The video is nothing more than propaganda from the Allies to destroy the legacy of Imperial Japan, and they pass themselves off as "heroes", which is funny since all countries that have been Western slaves for over 100 years are garbage of 3World and while those who have been influenced by Japan (for less time) are emerging powers.

The Asians and Whites of the comments should not blame anyone but yourselves for the enslavement and poverty of Asia these days, putting Japan in the same box of thieves and thieves is pathetic."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

mJLwqBfrcu8

You seriously arguing the rape of Nanking didn't happen or am I misinterpreting you here?

The nuking of Japan wouldn't be acceptable by modern standards but it was hardly out of step with the nature of warfare in the world wars. Japan chose the wrong bedfellows (Nazi Germany) and picked a fight with the wrong country (USA).

LOL@ this crazy thread. Considering the sig of the person who made it though it doesn't really surprise me. Sorry I bumped this old thread but it was before I became a member and I just had to reply.


Japan fully deserved what their asses got. Invading Japan would have cost countless lives on both sides. Using atom bombs was actually the lesser of the two evils to resolving the war and as others mentioned, they fully deserved it for how they backstabbed us at Pearl Harbor.


They also refused to surrender even after we bombed them the first time so it was their stubborness that cost them so many lives.

Yeah the children who were incinerated in atomic fire indeed deserved it for their personal actions in bombing Pearl Harbor. All those children bombing Pearl Harbor got what they deserved.

LOL @ you making excuses for the Japs after what they did. Those innocent babies you're talking about who were killed were killed as a result of Japan picking on the wrong nation. Japan was responsible for their deaths, not the United States.


Also, LOL@ you pretending like you suddenly care about innocent babies considering I'm pretty sure you support abortion. Talk about irony lmao.


Around one-thousand unborn children are murdered in this country every single day and I bet you don't even give a flying f*** about it, do you? So spare me your fake ass outrage of innocent babies being killed in Japan.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
LOL @ you making excuses for the Japs after what they did. Those innocent babies you're talking about who were killed were killed as a result of Japan picking on the wrong nation. Japan was responsible for their deaths, not the United States.


Also, LOL@ you pretending like you suddenly care about innocent babies considering I'm pretty sure you support abortion. Talk about irony lmao.


Around one-thousand unborn children are murdered in this country every single day and I bet you don't even give a flying f*** about it, do you? So spare me your fake ass outrage of innocent babies being killed in Japan.

Yes babies were killed, not zygotes which can be modified into any other vertebrate animal-human hybrid .

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
LOL @ you making excuses for the Japs after what they did. Those innocent babies you're talking about who were killed were killed as a result of Japan picking on the wrong nation. Japan was responsible for their deaths, not the United States.


Also, LOL@ you pretending like you suddenly care about innocent babies considering I'm pretty sure you support abortion. Talk about irony lmao.


Around one-thousand unborn children are murdered in this country every single day and I bet you don't even give a flying f*** about it, do you? So spare me your fake ass outrage of innocent babies being killed in Japan.

Wow, have some class buddy

It wasn't a war crime because we won the war, and decided it was acceptable. Had we lost, we'd have been the ones on trial.

You can believe we were justified and still admit that.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It wasn't a war crime because we won the war, and decided it was acceptable. Had we lost, we'd have been the on trial.

You can believe we were justified and still admit that.


Oh, of course. Had we lost you can bet that all of our leaders in top positions would've been executed as a result of us losing even if we hadn't used atom bombs.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
LOL @ you making excuses for the Japs after what they did. Those innocent babies you're talking about who were killed were killed as a result of Japan picking on the wrong nation. Japan was responsible for their deaths, not the United States.


Also, LOL@ you pretending like you suddenly care about innocent babies considering I'm pretty sure you support abortion. Talk about irony lmao.


Around one-thousand unborn children are murdered in this country every single day and I bet you don't even give a flying f*** about it, do you? So spare me your fake ass outrage of innocent babies being killed in Japan.

So now instead of Japan getting "what they deserved" they are merely responsible for those deaths?

I was trying to illustrate to you that claiming they "got what they deserved" when the people who made those decisions were not the ones who suffered is fallacious.

And your excuse for the US is nothing more than a "they started it!" lmao, you're a stupid retard whose wife phucks black guys my friend. I thought the military was supposed to teach you responsibility? Now the US aren't the ones who bombed Japan, Japan did? You can believe that the act was necessary without being a limp-wristed pussy and trying to weasel your way into making the US out to have no culpability.

"Unborn" being the key word, I don't consider them to be babies, no more than I consider the spunk I just blew to trap porn to be babies.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It wasn't a war crime because we won the war, and decided it was acceptable. Had we lost, we'd have been the ones on trial.

You can believe we were justified and still admit that.
Winner writes history.



Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae

Japan fully deserved what their asses got. Invading Japan would have cost countless lives on both sides. Using atom bombs was actually the lesser of the two evils to resolving the war and as others mentioned, they fully deserved it for how they backstabbed us at Pearl Harbor.


They also refused to surrender even after we bombed them the first time so it was their stubborness that cost them so many lives.


They could have simply maintained the naval blockade they had in place and wait for surrender once starvation became a real threat.

It was a show of force to the Soviets and the rest of the world of what the US military machine could now do. Only people I feel bad for were the children and the silent minority of the Japanese population who were against Japan's imperialistic expansions. The Japanese in charge were complete morons in not surredering after Hiroshima got hit.

Japan was also actively seeking atomics as was Germany and either would have gladly bombed the US if they had managed to achieve a working bomb first.

That is true. Nazi Germany and Japan would have used them if the situation was reversed.

Japan probably against some massed US battle group and whatever Chinese city they felt like targeting. The Germans against the Soviets and Allied formations on the Western front and then Britain itself.

IIRC, the Japanese targets were San Francisco, Los Angeles and maybe San Diego. But they were really behind.

If we could have seen some of the e-mails that Hillary Clinton deleted, we would know definitively that Japan was responsible for dropping the atomic bombs.

This is why I motion that we impeach Hillary immediately.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If we could have seen some of the e-mails that Hillary Clinton deleted, we would know definitively that Japan was responsible for dropping the atomic bombs.

This is why I motion that we impeach Hillary immediately.

^Pay attention folks, this right here is how you speak truth to power.

Originally posted by Robtard
It was a show of force to the Soviets and the rest of the world of what the US military machine could now do. Only people I feel bad for were the children and the silent minority of the Japanese population who were against Japan's imperialistic expansions. The Japanese in charge were complete morons in not surredering after Hiroshima got hit.

Japan was also actively seeking atomics as was Germany and either would have gladly bombed the US if they had managed to achieve a working bomb first. Yes because the Trinity nuclear test wasn't enough I guess.

Ironically many of those killed (about 1 in 7) were Koreans working in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the US likely knew this but simply didn't care.

What's even more disturbing is that 11,000+ of the victims were second-generation Japanese-Americans, children of immigrants, studying or visiting Japan. US government didn't care for their own civilians of course, but this isn't surprising considering they arbitrarily placed all the Japanese-Americans and anyone with the slightest Japanese heritage in concentration camps.

As of 2014 there were appx 1000 Japanese Americans affected by the nuclear radiation living in the US. The Japanese government provides them with monetary support for regular screenings and checkups while the US does nothing to make amends for its crime.

American leaders were racist towards the Japanese plain and simple. FDR is a scumbag as was Truman. May they rot in hell.





Originally posted by Robtard
IIRC, the Japanese targets were San Francisco, Los Angeles and maybe San Diego. But they were really behind.
Nope. Evidence exists that Japan had no interest whatsoever in the US mainland.

Simply put it was not war crimes because Japan was out of control and they would not stop.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Simply put it was not war crimes because Japan was out of control and they would not stop. US had blockaded Japan from the mainland at this point. All they had to do was wait for the populace to tap out from being starved of their lifeline of food, supplies, etc. A nuke was uncalled for, never-mind two.

Yeah, it doesn't take a genius to understand that dropping the bombs was the lesser of the two evils. Many more lives would've been lost on both sides in a long, bloody, drawn-out invasion than the amount that were killed by dropping the bombs.


And don't forget, America gave them a chance to surrender after warning them that we had a new secret weapon that would kill many of their people and yet the japs refused to surrender. Even after we dropped the first bomb and thus they then knew we weren't bluffing they still refused to surrender.

i think one bomb would have been enough tbh

never understood the need for nuking the second city

the first nuke was basically a choice between

1. instantly murder hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians of the enemy
VS
2. let the battle continue and have maybe less victims, but also our own soldiers, or wait maybe they'll develop their own nukes while we wait, or wait who really knows what happens in the next few months, damn do we really know what's gonna come

kinda a bad choice vs. bad choice, i can justify the first nuke

Kurk is obsessed with Japan and loves them more than he loves his own country.

LOL. The reason we nuked the second city is because the japs were stubborn and refused to surrender even after we nuked the first one... duh. FFS, that is the same troll guy that insulted southerners by accusing them all of being dumb in a seperate thread lol. He sure has lots of room to talk doesn't he?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Kurk is obsessed with Japan and loves them more than he loves his own country.


Ya, that's obvious.

the gap between was only 3 days lol, few days more and they could have surrendered, the first nuke was probably too much of a shock for them to process the info correctly imo

^It's obvious you are just as clueless as you accused southerners of being, dude.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
LOL. The reason we nuked the second city is because the japs were stubborn and refused to surrender even after we nuked the first one... duh. FFS, that is the same troll guy that insulted southerners by accusing them all of being dumb in a seperate thread lol. He sure has lots of room to talk doesn't he? Only inbred Americans believe this. The bombs were not a primary motive to surrender. It is recorded that Hiroshima happened during the meeting of the "Big Six" government officials. Its occurrence did not change their positions or arguments in the slightest. They had been enduring conventional bombings for months.

Once the Soviets invaded Manchuria, they had no more army to defend the mainland, and that's what drove them to surrender in addition to the US Naval blockade putting the squeeze on them.

They preferred an allied invasion than one by the barbaric Soviets.

the Japans didn't surrender immediately partially because of the lobby surrounding the Emperor believing that US had only one bomb, they didn't need to attack another huge city, it would have been enough to drop the nuke on sparsely populated area and minimize the destruction (yes, despite Japan's insane concentration of population, there are lots of such areas)

Atomizing them was the best thing we did so they could pay for their sins

They deserved more nukes if they didn’t stop after 2.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Atomizing them was the best thing we did so they could pay for their sins

They deserved more nukes if they didn’t stop after 2.
6UpMwVfwoDA

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Atomizing them was the best thing we did so they could pay for their sins

They deserved more nukes if they didn’t stop after 2. tbh while i may not agree it's inherently consistent, just a different idea than mine

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Atomizing them was the best thing we did so they could pay for their sins

They deserved more nukes


I agree that they brought it on themselves for what happened at Pearl Harbor but I'm also glad they learned their lesson and finally surrendered after Nagasaki. It's horrible that so many jap civilians had to die by us dropping the two bombs we did. Just glad we didn't have to drop anymore than we did and thereby kill even more of them.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
I agree that they brought it on themselves for what happened at Pearl Harbor but I'm also glad they learned their lesson and finally surrendered after Nagasaki. It's horrible that so many jap civilians had to die by us dropping the two bombs we did. Just glad we didn't have to drop anymore than we did and thereby kill even more of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

Originally posted by TempAccount
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes


*YAWN*


Dude, Wikipedia is a friggin' joke and everyone knows it is. Sorry, but you don't have a "gotcha" there. From what I remember about Wikipedia, pretty much any moron can edit the page and put whatever they want on it lol... unless of course they've changed that policy.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
*YAWN*


Dude, Wikipedia is a friggin' joke and everyone knows it is. Sorry, but you don't have a "gotcha" there. From what I remember about Wikipedia, pretty much any moron can edit the page and put whatever they want on it lol... unless of course they've changed that policy. lol is that the best you can do? It isn't 2006 anymore. Everything is cited at the bottom. I shouldn't have to hand-hold you just because you don't like what you see.


On a side note:



"America is not a poor country, indeed, in contrary to the Japanese society where we had to work hard and sweat for each meal. They would have problems of where to spend money" The book was actually a book that praises america, but still fails to grasp the basic understanding of American society.

And then we have this book "亜細亜民族と太平洋" "The Asian race and the Pacific". This book was written in 1940, in it it also has a chapter that deals with Americans, this time with a much harsher tone.

"The American, at their very core, are materialistic animals. To them, the only measure of success is how much they can own. They do not have a spiritual culture, or any culture with regards to their nation. To them, the measure on how a country is successful is it's rich and the machines, and the entertainment.

The only thing they value, is if something provides enough entertainment for them. "This thing is useful" "This thing is not useful" is their only thought when considering. If something does not provide immediate use, they would think "Nonsense!"

America does not have culture, nor noble traditions. To them, sports, jazz, love, gambling, gaming, is all they know.

....America is shallow, it is morally corrupt. Americanism is a poison upon their society."

Some of these sentiments do reflect greatly in the civilian population, and add on top of that American racism towards the Japanese. And you get this huge hodgepodge of ridicule, hate, and sense of superiority towards the Americans.

One last quote, this is a book from 1932. "挑むアメリカ" "Challenging America". In there, a chapter deals with Americans again.

I'm going to paraphrase what they say in there.

"Americans are people we must watch. Americans have a deep rooted racism towards us Japanese, For example, in 1924 a survey was conducted on the sentiment towards the anti-japanese law. In the Eastern states it was 5%, in the middle states it was 50%, and in the southern states it was 50%, and in the Western states it was 80%. That is how the Americans truly view us. Not as a friend where they seem to look like, but an enemy."

As you can see, pre-war it was less about the savagery of the Americans, but rather their better quality of life making them weaker willed. On top of a sort of anti-american sentiment born as a reaction from the Modern racism that was experienced by Japanese immigrants."

Calm down, we are back to back world war champs.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Calm down, we are back to back world war champs. America's glory days are over. It's a downhill spiral from here-on-out.

The masses are more ignorant than ever and incapable of meeting standards seen elsewhere in the world.

Trump's admin is afraid of China's technological growth because Americans are too stupid and afraid of math to match them in the fields of artificial intelligence, networks, and technology overall. We have to bring over the Chinese students to study and work for our firms lol because American education system has always prioritized sports, drama, and prom over learning. No wonder we rank so poorly to other countries; our kids struggle to pass Algebra 2 in highschool!

The congressmen in the US are idiots and lack qualifications to manage anything technology related. I remember Zuckerburg had to explain to some fart that Facebook has nothing to do with Apple Iphone.

Meanwhile in China it actually requires skill and smarts to make it into the Communist Party general body. Xi Jinping can actually understand the mathematics behind Artificial Intelligence while Trump can barely add up his golf-scores.

The real cherry on top is that while Americans pass draconian laws barring embryo research, genetic engineering, etc in the name of "JESUS CHRIST" and so called morals, China does not give a shit about western bioethics and is proceeding with gene-edited babies, human cloning, human head transplants, etc to make leaps and bounds in the human condition.

China is moving into the future while America tries to cling to the past.

Lol

Originally posted by TempAccount
America's glory days are over. It's a downhill spiral from here-on-out.

The masses are more ignorant than ever and incapable of meeting standards seen elsewhere in the world.

Trump's admin is afraid of China's technological growth because Americans are too stupid and afraid of math to match them in the fields of artificial intelligence, networks, and technology overall. We have to bring over the Chinese students to study and work for our firms lol because American education system has always prioritized sports, drama, and prom over learning. No wonder we rank so poorly to other countries; our kids struggle to pass Algebra 2 in highschool!

The congressmen in the US are idiots and lack qualifications to manage anything technology related. I remember Zuckerburg had to explain to some fart that Facebook has nothing to do with Apple Iphone.

Meanwhile in China it actually requires skill and smarts to make it into the Communist Party general body. Xi Jinping can actually understand the mathematics behind Artificial Intelligence while Trump can barely add up his golf-scores.

The real cherry on top is that while Americans pass draconian laws barring embryo research, genetic engineering, etc in the name of "JESUS CHRIST" and so called morals, China does not give a shit about western bioethics and is proceeding with gene-edited babies, human cloning, human head transplants, etc to make leaps and bounds in the human condition.

China is moving into the future while America tries to cling to the past. China sounds pretty impressive the way you put it... I'm thinking they could do with another invading. Another Nanking will set 'em straight, eh?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
China sounds pretty impressive the way you put it... I'm thinking they could do with another invading. Another Nanking will set 'em straight, eh? I am glad Abe is re-militarizing Nippon given the increasing threat from China and N. Korea in addition to Trump's statements early on about Japan needing to "pay up" for US protection in the region.

Even so, they will need to either open up to controlled immigration (maybe weebs like myself?) or adopt cloning technology to increase their concerning negative birth-rate.

Fewer and fewer young men (too many herbivore men) to serve, and bad for the economy overall. Maybe anime has something to do with it? Japan has the highest virgin rate after all....

Originally posted by TempAccount
America's glory days are over. It's a downhill spiral from here-on-out.


Nah, not with President Trump at the helm they're not over. It was in a downard spiral during the Obama years but those days are over. Trump is making us great again.


Oh, and Japan's glory days ended way back in 1945.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah the children who were incinerated in atomic fire indeed deserved it for their personal actions in bombing Pearl Harbor. All those children bombing Pearl Harbor got what they deserved.


Yes this exactly. Those shitty Japanese women and kids. They deserved to be nuked, not just once, but Twice. And They deserved it Both times.

War period is a crime. War is always rich people getting non rich people killed for profit. Yes the atomic bombings were major war crimes. There is nothing heroic or honorable about war, and it's never about freedom. Smedley Butler said it best "War is a racket"

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
I agree that they brought it on themselves for what happened at Pearl Harbor but I'm also glad they learned their lesson and finally surrendered after Nagasaki. It's horrible that so many jap civilians had to die by us dropping the two bombs we did. Just glad we didn't have to drop anymore than we did and thereby kill even more of them.

We only had two atomic bombs at the time. Had Japan not surrendered it would have taken months to build another. A land invasion would have been the likely result

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Nah, not with President Trump at the helm they're not over. It was in a downard spiral during the Obama years but those days are over. Trump is making us great again.


Oh, and Japan's glory days ended way back in 1945. How is Trump going to make US great again precisely? American populace is composed of undereducated incapable of matching academic/technological output of China & Asian Tigers.

Originally posted by TempAccount
US had blockaded Japan from the mainland at this point. All they had to do was wait for the populace to tap out from being starved of their lifeline of food, supplies, etc. A nuke was uncalled for, never-mind two.

I'm curious...do you think the Japanese government/military/whatever shares any of the blame in the deaths of those hit by that 2nd nuke?

Didn't they have a responsibility to their people...after the first one hit? It's not like we dropped a nuke and gave them 30 minutes to comply, then dropped another one. 3 days passed, why didn't they give up? They saw what we were willing to do and did nothing.

Yet when they thought the russians were gonna come in slaughter their emperor suddenly it was time to stop? Priorities! How much did *they* care about their own women and children? Not much, it seems.

And the thing they needed to learn...that we helped them learn was: don't start nothing won't be nothing

Or it could be "play a stupid game get a stupid radioactive prize". Or both.

Weren't the nukes dropped by a dolphin and a whale?

I will point out I don't condone the deaths of innocents, but innocent people die in war. So perhaps when a country decides they are gonna start one they should think long and hard about it and be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm curious...do you think the Japanese government/military/whatever shares any of the blame in the deaths of those hit by that 2nd nuke?

Didn't they have a responsibility to their people...after the first one hit? It's not like we dropped a nuke and gave them 30 minutes to comply, then dropped another one. 3 days passed, why didn't they give up? They saw what we were willing to do and did nothing.

Yet when they thought the russians were gonna come in slaughter their emperor suddenly it was time to stop? Priorities! How much did *they* care about their own women and children? Not much, it seems.

And the thing they needed to learn...that we helped them learn was: don't start nothing won't be nothing

Or it could be "play a stupid game get a stupid radioactive prize". Or both.
My understanding is that those in power were very much divided in their course of action. The Ministry of War did not want to surrender and actually attempted a coup d'etat on the Emperor to stop the move to surrender.

Imperial House of Japan & Emperor wanted to surrender earlier on but faced resistance from military leaders.

How much the bombs played a role in their decision to surrender is debatable among historians. It was likely a secondary cause, or a short-term trigger.

You cannot say that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the cause of WW1 anymore than the bombs alone caused Japan to surrender.

WW1 occurred due to nationalism of oppressed Serbs in Austria-Hungary, militarism, etc. Japan surrendered after they determined occupancy by US forced was preferable to that of the Soviets, who had invaded Manchuria and wiped out all of the IJA remaining forces.

So the government was divided; Emperor wanted what was best for the people but faced opposition from the military leaders who were bound by honor.

The bomb was nothing new; US was running out of targets to destroy by this point.

The US is so great with its concentration camps of Japanese Americans. No different that the early stages of the Holocaust. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Originally posted by TempAccount
My understanding is that those in power were very much divided in their course of action. The Ministry of War did not want to surrender and actually attempted a coup d'etat on the Emperor to stop the move to surrender.

Imperial House of Japan & Emperor wanted to surrender earlier on but faced resistance from military leaders.

How much the bombs played a role in their decision to surrender is debatable among historians. It was likely a secondary cause, or a short-term trigger.

You cannot say that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the cause of WW1 anymore than the bombs alone caused Japan to surrender.

WW1 occurred due to nationalism of oppressed Serbs in Austria-Hungary, militarism, etc. Japan surrendered after they determined occupancy by US forced was preferable to that of the Soviets, who had invaded Manchuria and wiped out all of the IJA remaining forces.

So the government was divided; Emperor wanted what was best for the people but faced opposition from the military leaders who were bound by honor.

The bomb was nothing new; US was running out of targets to destroy by this point.

As I mentioned about their fear of the russians...I don't think they gave up cuz of the nukes.

We have their meetings from the day of the 2nd bombing and the bombing is barely discussed...they were more focused on the fact russia had just entered the war in the pacific. This is what they had been dreading.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes this exactly. Those shitty Japanese women and kids. They deserved to be nuked, not just once, but Twice. And They deserved it Both times.

All those shitty American women and kids, they deserved to be bombed.

*votes

Originally posted by TempAccount
The US is so great with its concentration camps of Japanese Americans. No different that the early stages of the Holocaust. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Japan was so great they sent soldiers into China to dis embow pregnant women.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Japan was so great they sent soldiers into China to dis embow pregnant women. Nobody condoned this. Most military generals were disgusted when they heard a very small number of troops were acting in this manner.

Anyway, segregation against blacks, Japanese-American concentration camps was no different than the policies of Nazi Germany against Jews and Slavs initially.

They sure condoned the bombing of pear harbor

Tell me again what America did to Japan?

Oh that’s right, not a damn thing.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
They sure confined the combing of pear harbor

Tell me again what America did to Japan?

Oh that’s right, not a damn thing. They put in place trade embargos and refused to sell them oil or buy scrap iron from them (which ironically led to them using it to build their navy)

Prior to this, they sent their navy to threaten pacifist Japan in the mid 19th century and forced them into unfavorable trade agreements.

Fearing that they would be turned into a Qing China (British forcing China to accept Opium -- basically Heroin -- in return for tea, silk, etc trade), Japan industrialized rapidly.

The US didn't like having competition so they tried starving Japan of oil and resources. Japan refused to become a subordinate of the West and was forced to invade surrounding lands to gather oil and said resources.

It was the US's fault, really.

No sorry but you are wrong, and your also an idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Nagashima was not innocent. They had released records that clearly show Trump colluded with Russia. They were then retaliated against by the USA to win the Civil War. This directly led to the surrender of Julius Caesar and the Democrats in the 2013 presidential election.

However, there is also clear evidence that Hirosaki was innocent. Mueller's report exonerated the Jews who were fighting in Hirosaki. The surviving Jews all committed sudoku after failing to get the 2s and 9s correctly in the squares. The bombing of Hirosaki was wrong and The Undertaker knows it.

Originally posted by TempAccount
Yes because the Trinity nuclear test wasn't enough I guess.

Ironically many of those killed (about 1 in 7) were Koreans working in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the US likely knew this but simply didn't care.

What's even more disturbing is that 11,000+ of the victims were second-generation Japanese-Americans, children of immigrants, studying or visiting Japan. US government didn't care for their own civilians of course, but this isn't surprising considering they arbitrarily placed all the Japanese-Americans and anyone with the slightest Japanese heritage in concentration camps.

As of 2014 there were appx 1000 Japanese Americans affected by the nuclear radiation living in the US. The Japanese government provides them with monetary support for regular screenings and checkups while the US does nothing to make amends for its crime.

American leaders were racist towards the Japanese plain and simple. FDR is a scumbag as was Truman. May they rot in hell.


Nope. Evidence exists that Japan had no interest whatsoever in the US mainland.

Correct, it wasn't. You want to show what your weapon can do in reality and on a real target.

To further that point above, even after Hiroshima Japan didn't surrender. It took a second bombing/test.

Correct, America was highly racist against Japan and the Japanese during WWII, look at all the racist propaganda, interment camps, Superman telling kids to "Slap a Jap". The Japanese were far worst when it came to racism and racial superiority though. eg Look at the war crimes they committed in China and Korea alone. Japanese prison guards were known to be notoriously brutal on American POWs if they happened to be very tall, red-headed and/or well endowed.

Incorrect. Look at the Japanese 'Fu-Go balloon bomb' program, though it ultimately failed as only six people died, Japan had every intention of attacking the US mainland, as Japan did.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm curious...do you think the Japanese government/military/whatever shares any of the blame in the deaths of those hit by that 2nd nuke?

Didn't they have a responsibility to their people...after the first one hit? It's not like we dropped a nuke and gave them 30 minutes to comply, then dropped another one. 3 days passed, why didn't they give up? They saw what we were willing to do and did nothing.

Yet when they thought the russians were gonna come in slaughter their emperor suddenly it was time to stop? Priorities! How much did *they* care about their own women and children? Not much, it seems.

And the thing they needed to learn...that we helped them learn was: don't start nothing won't be nothing

Or it could be "play a stupid game get a stupid radioactive prize". Or both.



This, exactly. After the first bomb they knew damn well that we weren't bluffing yet they still chose to be stubborn. A people should know when they're beaten.

Originally posted by Surtur
I will point out I don't condone the deaths of innocents, but innocent people die in war. So perhaps when a country decides they are gonna start one they should think long and hard about it and be prepared to deal with the consequences.



It seems many jackasses seem to think the japanese were just a bunch of poor, innocent little victims who never did anything wrong. They were the aggressors, not us. Don't start something you aren't able to finish as the old saying goes. For the 2 or 3 sjw snowflake retards in this thread trying to make it seem like the U.S. was the one in the wrong you're all disgusting as f*** and you make me wanna throw up.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
All those shitty American women and kids, they deserved to be bombed.



Yeah it's obvious he's just another leftist p-o-s american-hater. He's a little punk.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Japan was so great they sent soldiers into China to dis embow pregnant women.



....or the cruel way they treated our p-o-w's. It's pathetic for the dude to sit there w/a straight face and pretend like the japs were morally superior to americans.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nagashima was not innocent. They had released records that clearly show Trump colluded with Russia. They were then retaliated against by the USA to win the Civil War. This directly led to the surrender of Julius Caesar and the Democrats in the 2013 presidential election.

However, there is also clear evidence that Hirosaki was innocent. Mueller's report exonerated the Jews who were fighting in Hirosaki. The surviving Jews all committed sudoku after failing to get the 2s and 9s correctly in the squares. The bombing of Hirosaki was wrong and The Undertaker knows it.

So you want Operation Downfall to occur?

Originally posted by Kurk
Japan was terrified at becoming like Qing China where the British destroyed their society with opium.

I cannot find a single primary, secondary, or reputable tertiary source for this particular claim. Most likely due to the mismatched historical scenarios and the actual history, not the Faux-Kurk-History that you're trying to push.


Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I cannot find a single primary, secondary, or reputable tertiary source for this particular claim. Most likely due to the mismatched historical scenarios and the actual history, not the Faux-Kurk-History that you're trying to push.


Prove me wrong.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2385356.pdf? casa_token=T4rmP5A4dDUAAAAA:MaaDTaBVD2SLxjxgmjkmiR
QaOkS1Dbg2SN9ByYKflFbAooYigpWVZxnYiZUlGyR2ba2wVf0g
-wgds2Jj1JitgB1UFQ1Bu3xDmMoHLtZvqBykuInfXw

" By granting Harris's treaty, bakufu leaders revoked national isolation, or
sakoku , a hallowed state law then generally, although mistakenly, pre-
sumed to date from the start of Tokugawa rule. Moreover, they flouted the
emperor's will that called for joi 1, or 'expulsion of Western barbarians'.
To a large extent, Consul Harris achieved his diplomatic coup by forcefully
stressing that Japan, like China, would suffer the evils of opium trafficking
and war if Edo did not consent.2 Thus, the bakufu and its supporters
pledged themselves to kaikoku rJ, or 'opening the country'-at least to
the Westerners.




https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/470468


Abstract:

"The use of opium in China is apparently regarded by the Japanese authorities as one of the causes of the decadence of that empire. To such an extent does this feeling exist that it is said that out of a number of Japanese coolies employed in the China-Japanese War, a certain portion contracted the opium habit and for this were brought before the Japanese commander. Rather than allow them to return to Japan and introduce the habit there, it is reported that he had them lined up and shot. Considering the community of political interests in the Orient, and general friendly feeling between Japan and Great Britain, the pro-opium tendencies of the British government are perhaps worth considering as bringing in a discordant element that may give trouble in the future."

Originally posted by TempAccount
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2385356.pdf? casa_token=T4rmP5A4dDUAAAAA:MaaDTaBVD2SLxjxgmjkmiR
QaOkS1Dbg2SN9ByYKflFbAooYigpWVZxnYiZUlGyR2ba2wVf0g
-wgds2Jj1JitgB1UFQ1Bu3xDmMoHLtZvqBykuInfXw

" By granting Harris's treaty, bakufu leaders revoked national isolation, or
sakoku , a hallowed state law then generally, although mistakenly, pre-
sumed to date from the start of Tokugawa rule. Moreover, they flouted the
emperor's will that called for joi 1, or 'expulsion of Western barbarians'.
To a large extent, Consul Harris achieved his diplomatic coup by forcefully
stressing that Japan, like China, would suffer the evils of opium trafficking
and war if Edo did not consent.2 Thus, the bakufu and its supporters
pledged themselves to kaikoku rJ, or 'opening the country'-at least to
the Westerners.

So an agreement, entered by both governments, which formally allowed trade and residence in Japan, for the US, is your support?

This won't work. This agreement is also almost 100 years prior to WWII. Formalizing trade agreements in 1858 is hardly the US threatening Japan with an influx of cheap Opium to get Japanese hooked on Opium.




Originally posted by TempAccount
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/470468


Abstract:

"The use of opium in China is apparently regarded by the Japanese authorities as one of the causes of the decadence of that empire. To such an extent does this feeling exist that it is said that out of a number of Japanese coolies employed in the China-Japanese War, a certain portion contracted the opium habit and for this were brought before the Japanese commander. Rather than allow them to return to Japan and introduce the habit there, it is reported that he had them lined up and shot. Considering the community of political interests in the Orient, and general friendly feeling between Japan and Great Britain, the pro-opium tendencies of the British government are perhaps worth considering as bringing in a discordant element that may give trouble in the future."

This is hearsay. It is not even a primary, secondary, or tertiary source.

If an item starts with, "it is said" or "it was said", the veracity is null and it becomes folklore that is just interesting to read.

On top of that, this is for Britain-Japan relations and that item was written in 1900.



You've proven my point, by the way. This is just Faux-Kurk-History with no veracity.

An agreement that the US strong-armed them into. Japan knew they could either enter willingly and keep some autonomy or become a colony (which is what they feared).

The US threatened Japan with military force, not Opium. Japan was afraid of becoming Qing dynasty in the long-run if they just sat back and openly traded.

British/English it's all the same. The industrialized powers' 'black ships' (new war ships) were the focus. Japan could either industrialize and dominate or be dominated.

I'd offer primary sources if I was fluent in Kanji, but that is not the case.

What is the exact issue here again?