Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Wanda and Marvel are powered up, face to face.

Who wins?

Captain SJW due to not being a glass cannon.

Carol

Originally posted by playa1258
Captain SJW due to not being a glass cannon.


That's why I said they're powered up. She fended off Thano's attacks fine.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's why I said they're powered up. She fended off Thano's attacks fine.

She can fend off attacks for a bit but if she actually takes a hit it probably goes downhill from there. Unlike Thanos, CM has flight and ranged attacks. So lifting CM up in the air and crushing her like Thanos would be more difficult.

Captain SJW

Going with Carol 6/10

This thread has already been done, actually. Anyway, I'd back Carol to win due to having proper flight + plus superhuman physical attributes on top of her offensive energy powers. Also, thinking about it, in character Wanda is unlikely to go for an all-out crushing move against Carol. She did it to Thanos because he murdered the person she loved right in front of her. Carol is another hero.

Dunno who Captain SJW is , but I do know who Captain Marvel is ad she wins

Captain SJW is Captain Marvel. You're welcome.

If Wanda can prevent Thanos from moving, and destroy his blade (that was durable enough to cut through Cap's shield) then it's fair to say that she can easily control or, at minimum, damage Carol.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Wanda can prevent Thanos from moving, and destroy his blade (that was durable enough to cut through Cap's shield) then it's fair to say that she can easily control or, at minimum, damage Carol.

Not quite the same. As I mentioned earlier, CM has flight whereas Thanos doesn't. Wanda immobilized Thanos by lifting him up in the air. Not gonna work on CM since she can fly. She also has long range attacks which Thanos doesn't. So she can blast Wanda even while Wanda tries to hold her off at a distance.

Carol wins.

Carol got hopped by thanos with one stone. Wanda was able to hold thanos whith almost all the stones while destroying another with one hand. She can take carol

Carol wins, she has higher consistent feats. Wanda has her high feats but also struggled against Corvus and Proxima

Originally posted by FrothByte
Not quite the same. As I mentioned earlier, CM has flight whereas Thanos doesn't. Wanda immobilized Thanos by lifting him up in the air. Not gonna work on CM since she can fly. She also has long range attacks which Thanos doesn't. So she can blast Wanda even while Wanda tries to hold her off at a distance.

Why can't Wanda hold Carol in place and prevent her from flying anywhere?

Originally posted by h1a8
Why can't Wanda hold Carol in place and prevent her from flying anywhere?


Well She had to prove she can.

Especially given how powerful Carols flight capabilities are. Plus she has to deal with her ranged attacks which are also ridiculously powerful.

Rewatched Civil War, and War Machine caused SW a lot of trouble, so I have no doubt Carol would waste her.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well She had to prove she can.

Especially given how powerful Carols flight capabilities are. Plus she has to deal with her ranged attacks which are also ridiculously powerful.

Rewatched Civil War, and War Machine caused SW a lot of trouble, so I have no doubt Carol would waste her. Wanda's force feats are greater than Carol's flight feats

Originally posted by h1a8
Wanda's force feats are greater than Carol's flight feats

Carol was able to stop a nuke while flying. Has Wanda ever stopped something so big with her TK?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Carol was able to stop a nuke while flying. Has Wanda ever stopped something so big with her TK?

Wanda manipulated big shit, and broke material stronger than Cap's shield.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wanda manipulated big shit, and broke material stronger than Cap's shield.

Did she ever manipulate something as big as a nuke?

Originally posted by h1a8
Wanda's force feats are greater than Carol's flight feats


1) Thats debatable

2) She can also fire energy blasts powerful enough to one shot massive starships

3) Shes also stronger and more durable than Thanos


Carol is just on a different level.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Did she ever manipulate something as big as a nuke?

Nukes aren't big, unless you are referring to those PARTICULAR nukes.
The Wakanda feat where Wanda manipulated those big machines.

But that's moot anyway since exerting a force capable of damaging something more durable than Cap's shield is enough.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Thats debatable

2) She can also fire energy blasts powerful enough to one shot massive starships

3) Shes also stronger and more durable than Thanos


Carol is just on a different level.

Carol only destroyed small vessels with her blasts.
But you missed my point.
Firing blasts is irrelevant due to being held in place, unable to move one's arms.

Carol is not more durable than Cap's shield.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nukes aren't big, unless you are referring to those PARTICULAR nukes.
The Wakanda feat where Wanda manipulated those big machines.

But that's moot anyway since exerting a force capable of damaging something more durable than Cap's shield is enough.

Has Wanda ever manipulated anything as big as the nuke that CM pushed around?

Doesn't Scarlet Witch have some kind of mind control power, from Age of Ultron, where she mind whammied the Avengers and mind controlled the Sokovians into leaving their houses for evacuation?

Originally posted by gauntlet o doom
Doesn't Scarlet Witch have some kind of mind control power, from Age of Ultron, where she mind whammied the Avengers and mind controlled the Sokovians into leaving their houses for evacuation?

Yeah but we didn't really see much of it after AOU, don't think we saw it at all actually

Originally posted by FrothByte
Has Wanda ever manipulated anything as big as the nuke that CM pushed around?

You should be arguing why your question is relevant and why using force to damage something extremely durable is not relevant to using the same amount of force to stop both someone's flight and ability to move their arms.

Originally posted by h1a8
You should be arguing why your question is relevant and why using force to damage something extremely durable is not relevant to using the same amount of force to stop both someone's flight and ability to move their arms.

It's a simple yes or no question, why do you keep dodging?

Has Wanda ever manipulated anything as big as the nuke that CM pushed around?

Has Wanda ever destroyed anything as big as the ship that CM destroyed?

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's a simple yes or no question, why do you keep dodging?

Has Wanda ever manipulated anything as big as the nuke that CM pushed around?

Has Wanda ever destroyed anything as big as the ship that CM destroyed?

I avoid the question because it's irrelevant and a waste of time.
If you disagree then prove why?

Originally posted by h1a8
I avoid the question because it's irrelevant and a waste of time.
If you disagree then prove why?

No, I'm not answering your question when you're unwilling to answer mine. You claim it's a waste of time yet you're willing to write multiple posts just to avoid it when a simple yes or no would suffice. So yeah, we both know you're being untruthful about why you don't want to answer.

Now: Has Wanda ever manipulated anything as massive as the nukes that CM has?

Asking questions that you believe you know the answer to is not debating. It is trolling.

You must ask only the questions that you honestly believe that you don’t know the answer to.

Originally posted by h1a8
Asking questions that you believe you know the answer to is not debating. It is trolling.

You must ask only the questions that you honestly believe that you don’t know the answer to.

No, asking questions to counter someone else's argument is a valid form of debating. The fact that you don't want to answer it (and are wasting numerous posts trying to dodge it) is proof that you know the answer will weaken your argument and prove you wrong.

That's why you don't want to answer.

Originally posted by h1a8
Carol only destroyed small vessels with her blasts.
But you missed my point.
Firing blasts is irrelevant due to being held in place, unable to move one's arms.

Carol is not more durable than Cap's shield.


Does she need to move her arms to fire energy? How does she fly again?

Proof regarding Carol vs Caps shield?

Holding a super brick like Thanos is one thing. Holding someone stronger and more durable, who can fly at immense speeds and fire ridiculously powerful energy blasts is something Very Very Different. So the onus of proof is on you here.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Does she need to move her arms to fire energy? How does she fly again?

Proof regarding Carol vs Caps shield?

Holding a super brick like Thanos is one thing. Holding someone stronger and more durable, who can fly at immense speeds and fire ridiculously powerful energy blasts is something Very Very Different. So the onus of proof is on you here.

Actually, he needs to prove that Wanda can hold Carol completely immobile. When Wanda lifted Thanos up in the air, he seemed able to still move his arms and legs, but because he doesn't fly he was completely helpless in the air.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, asking questions to counter someone else's argument is a valid form of debating. The fact that you don't want to answer it (and are wasting numerous posts trying to dodge it) is proof that you know the answer will weaken your argument and prove you wrong.

That's why you don't want to answer.

Asking a question that you believe you know the answer to doesn't counter someone else's argument. It is called trolling.
Just directly state your argument, a question is unnecessary.

For example, just say, "Since Wanda didn't (or did) manipulate something as big as the nuke then ...."

Asking a question is stupid and a form of trolling.

With that said, you are also trolling by not addressing the fact that I showed why the answer to your question is irrelevant.
Breaking something of a sufficiently large durability proves that one can prevent another from moving (effectively).

If you disagree then state why.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Actually, he needs to prove that Wanda can hold Carol completely immobile. When Wanda lifted Thanos up in the air, he seemed able to still move his arms and legs, but because he doesn't fly he was completely helpless in the air. She can destroy objects more durable than thanos or Carol can damage with their strength. Therefore she can immobilize Carol, or simply kill her with said attack.


Originally posted by Darth Thor
Does she need to move her arms to fire energy? How does she fly again?

Proof regarding Carol vs Caps shield?

Holding a super brick like Thanos is one thing. Holding someone stronger and more durable, who can fly at immense speeds and fire ridiculously powerful energy blasts is something Very Very Different. So the onus of proof is on you here.
Carol being stronger than Thanos (debatable) is irrelevant. She has no feats of being strong enough to damage Cap's shield.


Wanda can use her TK powers to hold Carol in place due to her damaging something more durable than Cap's shield with that tk. In other words, her TK is strong enough to achieve this.

Originally posted by h1a8
Asking a question that you believe you know the answer to doesn't counter someone else's argument. It is called trolling.
Just directly state your argument, a question is unnecessary.

For example, just say, "Since Wanda didn't (or did) manipulate something as big as the nuke then ...."

Asking a question is stupid and a form of trolling.

With that said, you are also trolling by not addressing the fact that I showed why the answer to your question is irrelevant.
Breaking something of a sufficiently large durability proves that one can prevent another from moving (effectively).

If you disagree then state why.

Incorrect. A martial artist who can break a 1-inch thick wooden board is not necessarily someone who can bench press 300 lbs. On the other hand, a strongman who can bench press 500 lbs is not guaranteed that he can break that 1-inch wooden board.

Though both require strength, they're different kinds of strength. Destroying something of decent durability is not the same as being able to move/counter something that's exerting a great amount of opposing force.

Carol has the flight strength to travel through blackholes, stop a huge incoming missile and easily smash through ships. You claimed that Wanda has feats to prove she's stronger than that and can overcome Carol's flight strength. So, what are those feats?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Incorrect. A martial artist who can break a 1-inch thick wooden board is not necessarily someone who can bench press 300 lbs. On the other hand, a strongman who can bench press 500 lbs is not guaranteed that he can break that 1-inch wooden board.

Though both require strength, they're different kinds of strength. Destroying something of decent durability is not the same as being able to move/counter something that's exerting a great amount of opposing force.

Carol has the flight strength to travel through blackholes, stop a huge incoming missile and easily smash through ships. You claimed that Wanda has feats to prove she's stronger than that and can overcome Carol's flight strength. So, what are those feats?

We are referring to TK (not strikes).
And ANYONE who can lift 500lb can break a 1in board. If you disagree then provide proof by an example.

Originally posted by h1a8
We are referring to TK (not strikes).
And ANYONE who can lift 500lb can break a 1in board. If you disagree then provide proof by an example.

You can't ask me to prove a negative. If you want to claim that being able to bench press 500 lbs automatically gives you the strength to break a 1 inch thick wooden board then you're the one who has to prove it.

I don't think you understand how difficult it is to break a 1 inch thick wooden board. Try it sometime. Go grab your chopping board at home and try to break it with a single strike.

And how do you think Wanda broke Thanos' sword? She didn't slowly crush it with her TK, she struck it with her TK. Thus the comparison to striking strength is apt.

Now, do you have any proof that Wanda is strong enough to counter Carol's flight strength or will you continue to dodge?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You can't ask me to prove a negative. If you want to claim that being able to bench press 500 lbs automatically gives you the strength to break a 1 inch thick wooden board then you're the one who has to prove it.

I don't think you understand how difficult it is to break a 1 inch thick wooden board. Try it sometime. Go grab your chopping board at home and try to break it with a single strike.

And how do you think Wanda broke Thanos' sword? She didn't slowly crush it with her TK, she struck it with her TK. Thus the comparison to striking strength is apt.

Now, do you have any proof that Wanda is strong enough to counter Carol's flight strength or will you continue to dodge?

You are making a mistake. Although you can't prove a universal negative, you are claiming an existential negative (someone) which can and must be proven with a single example.


Even if you can't and we must accept your assertion without proof then this would imply that some person who can lift 300 tons can't necessarily break a 1in board and so forth. So in general, Carol can't necessarily break a 1in board with a headbutt.

See how stupid that is?

Anyway, just because you can't prove an universal negative does not make it true. Some things in fiction can't be proven. But evidence that leans more to one direction than not is what we go with. Otherwise most of the threads wouldn't go anywhere.


Ok. Let's say that you are right about Wanda striking the sword. Then she would kill Carol in one blow.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wanda manipulated big shit, and broke material stronger than Cap's shield.

Yeah, she did significantly damage Thanoscopter Blade... quite a feat indeed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Did she ever manipulate something as big as that nuke?

Yes she did in IW. She manipulated several objects whole total size was significantly larger than that nuke.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are making a mistake. Although you can't prove a universal negative, you are claiming an existential negative (someone) which can and must be proven with a single example.


Even if you can't and we must accept your assertion without proof then this would imply that some person who can lift 300 tons can't necessarily break a 1in board and so forth. So in general, Carol can't necessarily break a 1in board with a headbutt.

See how stupid that is?

Anyway, just because you can't prove an universal negative does not make it true. Some things in fiction can't be proven. But evidence that leans more to one direction than not is what we go with. Otherwise most of the threads wouldn't go anywhere.


Ok. Let's say that you are right about Wanda striking the sword. Then she would kill Carol in one blow.

Carol already busts through ships and you think she can't break a wooden board?

As for your "existential negative" claim, it seems you're trying to simply avoid posting proof. If you think that lifting/pulling strength equates to striking strength then go ahead and provide proof. Show me someone with no striking training able to break a 1 inch wooden board because they lift heavy weights. The fact that I already searched for something and can't find any is proof of my claim. If you want to claim otherwise then it's up to you to prove.

In any case, you claimed that Wanda can hold CM in place. Then you give an example of Wanda breaking something with a quick, single strike. That's not a feat of holding. If you had said Wanda can knockout CM with a blow then that would at least make more sense. But you're basically giving a feat that is very different from your imagined scenario.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Carol already busts through ships and you think she can't break a wooden board?

As for your "existential negative" claim, it seems you're trying to simply avoid posting proof. If you think that lifting/pulling strength equates to striking strength then go ahead and provide proof. Show me someone with no striking training able to break a 1 inch wooden board because they lift heavy weights. The fact that I already searched for something and can't find any is proof of my claim. If you want to claim otherwise then it's up to you to prove.

In any case, you claimed that Wanda can hold CM in place. Then you give an example of Wanda breaking something with a quick, single strike. That's not a feat of holding. If you had said Wanda can knockout CM with a blow then that would at least make more sense. But you're basically giving a feat that is very different from your imagined scenario.

She used flight strength and flew through them with her arms extended. Noticed that I said with a headbutt.

I broke a 1in slab on concrete in MA class when I was 19 with absolutely no training in striking. I could only lift 185lb at the time. My hand was sore for a week though.

You are basically saying that no matter one's lifting feats (even if it's millions) , it can't be proven that said character can break a 1in board.

And Wanda, in IW, manipulated several objects whose total size was significantly larger than that nuke.

^
Proof that at best you got trained at a Mcdojo

Originally posted by Silent Master
^
Proof that at best you got trained at a Mcdojo

It was definitely a mcdojo. Culty as phuck.
Anyway, I received no training on how to do it (maybe I snuck and did it?). I just hit it hard as I can. Messed my hand up too.

Breaking concrete is scam, they use unreinforced slabs that are designed to break easily.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Breaking concrete is scam, they use unreinforced slabs that are designed to break easily.

Possibly. I think the wooden boards are sketchy too.

Originally posted by h1a8
She used flight strength and flew through them with her arms extended. Noticed that I said with a headbutt.

I broke a 1in slab on concrete in MA class when I was 19 with absolutely no training in striking. I could only lift 185lb at the time. My hand was sore for a week though.

You are basically saying that no matter one's lifting feats (even if it's millions) , it can't be proven that said character can break a 1in board.

And Wanda, in IW, manipulated several objects whose total size was significantly larger than that nuke.

lol, no, that is not what I said. I said someone who can bench 500 lbs won't automatically be able to punch through a 1-inch wooden slab. I never said someone who can lift millions of tons couldn't break a 1-inch wooden slab. Please stop making stuff up.

Anyway, before I continue to dismantle your arguments I just want to make sure I understand where you're coming from:

Are you telling me you believe Wanda can easily hold Superman in the air and immobilize him completely?

Originally posted by h1a8
It was definitely a mcdojo. Culty as phuck.
Anyway, I received no training on how to do it (maybe I snuck and did it?). I just hit it hard as I can. Messed my hand up too.

Meh, a 1-inch concrete slab isn't that hard to break. As long as it's not reinforced, is of a decent length and you elevate it by its opposite ends you could just slam your palm in the center and it will break. Me and my friends used to steal some from a construction site back in our teen years just to smash them up and pretend how strong we were (though to be fair, those slabs/tiles were probably less than 1 inch). It's not that impressive actually.

The fact that you said you broke your hand against it makes me believe you're making that stuff up. Either you made it up or you're completely clueless on how to throw a punch.

Just grab a 1-inch slab of concrete and a 1-inch slab of wood of the same size then smash them on the ground. Chances are the concrete slab will break whereas the wooden slab just bounces.

And I'm not talking about those wooden boards used in martial arts demos. Those are specifically constructed to be brittle, such that you can hold them in your two hands and snap them in two. Some are even "pre-broken" and can be reassembled and rebroken multiple times. They're meant for demos, which is why you see them being broken even by someone who only taps at them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
lol, no, that is not what I said. I said someone who can bench 500 lbs won't automatically be able to punch through a 1-inch wooden slab. I never said someone who can lift millions of tons couldn't break a 1-inch wooden slab. Please stop making stuff up.

Anyway, before I continue to dismantle your arguments I just want to make sure I understand where you're coming from:

Are you telling me you believe Wanda can easily hold Superman in the air and immobilize him completely?

Then someone who can bench a million tons won't automatically be able to punch through a 1-inch wooden slab. Same logic.

Superman has nothing to do with the thread.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Meh, a 1-inch concrete slab isn't that hard to break. As long as it's not reinforced, is of a decent length and you elevate it by its opposite ends you could just slam your palm in the center and it will break. Me and my friends used to steal some from a construction site back in our teen years just to smash them up and pretend how strong we were (though to be fair, those slabs/tiles were probably less than 1 inch). It's not that impressive actually.

The fact that you said you broke your hand against it makes me believe you're making that stuff up. Either you made it up or you're completely clueless on how to throw a punch.

Just grab a 1-inch slab of concrete and a 1-inch slab of wood of the same size then smash them on the ground. Chances are the concrete slab will break whereas the wooden slab just bounces.

And I'm not talking about those wooden boards used in martial arts demos. Those are specifically constructed to be brittle, such that you can hold them in your two hands and snap them in two. Some are even "pre-broken" and can be reassembled and rebroken multiple times. They're meant for demos, which is why you see them being broken even by someone who only taps at them.

I didn't break my hand. My hand was sore. Those slabs were definitely an inch thick. I was surprised I broke one but didn't think it would hurt like hell.

Even if they are easy to break, it didn't feel like it. After all, I did not have training on how to strike the slab.

Originally posted by h1a8
Then someone who can bench a million tons won't automatically be able to punch through a 1-inch wooden slab. Same logic.

Superman has nothing to do with the thread.

Just answer the question: Do you believe Wanda has sufficient TK strength to completely immobilize Superman in the air?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Do you believe Wanda has sufficient TK strength to completely immobilize Superman in the air?


Lol I was thinking of asking him the same thing.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just answer the question: Do you believe Wanda has sufficient TK strength to completely immobilize Superman in the air?

Irrelevant question.

Originally posted by h1a8
Irrelevant question.

Of course it's relevant. If you truly believe the logic you formed regarding Wanda's powers then you wouldn't hesitate to apply that logic to Superman.

The fact that you're refusing to answer already tells me you want to apply a different standard when it comes to Superman, which means you don't really believe what you just told me regarding Wanda's ability to user her TK to immobilize CM.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol I was thinking of asking him the same thing.

Watch him dodge this question for the next 3 pages.