Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Yes, you read that right. Snowflake leftists think that the rest of us should be forced to pay off the college debt they willingly chose to take on themselves. It's so not fair they're forced to pay it off themselves! Waaah, waah, waaah, waaah! Cry me a river. Welcome to reality, snowflakes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUhuIfLuxfw



This is just the kind of delusional mentality that loons like Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Elizabeth Warren (Pocahontas) are responsible for creating and continuing to push.



P.S. Might not be able to re-enter into this thread after posting it considering how I've been having that exact same problem with several other threads for couple of days now. It happened w/the thread I made just a little earlier today in which I posted about the problems I've been having browsing forum.

I got a full grant for my first two degrees. Lovely!

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I got a full grant for my first two degrees. Lovely!


Good for you. What did you major in? How to throw a temper tantrum when an election or some other vote (like Brexit) doesn't go your way?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Good for you. What did you major in? How to throw a temper tantrum when an election or some other vote (like Brexit) doesn't go your way? haha there you go Fly, getting all angry again.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
haha there you go Fly, getting all angry again.



LOL. Since you insist on continuing to call me someone I'm not I will do the exact same thing to you from now on.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
LOL. Since you insist on continuing to call me someone I'm not I will do the exact same thing to you from now on. but Fly, you are Fly. Good plan, hope it works out for you.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
but Fly, you are Fly. Good plan, hope it works out for you.



But Bernie, you are Bernie.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
But Bernie, you are Bernie. Bernie Sanders? Breslow? Bernie, the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's? Who Fly?

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Bernie Sanders? Breslow? Bernie, the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's? Who Fly?


You triggered now, robblie/Bashy? I think it's obvious now that you, and Bashy, and robbie are all the same person.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Yes, you read that right. Snowflake leftists think that the rest of us should be forced to pay off the college debt they willingly chose to take on themselves. It's so not fair they're forced to pay it off themselves! Waaah, waah, waaah, waaah! Cry me a river. Welcome to reality, snowflakes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUhuIfLuxfw



This is just the kind of delusional mentality that loons like Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Elizabeth Warren (Pocahontas) are responsible for creating and continuing to push.



P.S. Might not be able to re-enter into this thread after posting it considering how I've been having that exact same problem with several other threads for couple of days now. It happened w/the thread I made just a little earlier today in which I posted about the problems I've been having browsing forum.

If you're someone who has already paid off their debt is that money also going to be returned?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
You triggered now, robblie/Bashy? I think it's obvious now that you, and Bashy, and robbie are all the same person. O.K. I'll choose, I'll be Bernie Hopkins the ex-boxer Fly.

Originally posted by Surtur
If you're someone who has already paid off their debt is that money also going to be returned?




Not sure. All I know is #Cancel MyDebt is trending on twitter now because of snowflakes who think they aren't responsible for their own choices they make themselves. Brittany Hughes does a good job in the little 3 or 4 minute video above making fun of them. It's hilarious.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
O.K. I'll choose, I'll be Bernie Hopkins the ex-boxer Fly.


Hush, robbie. You don't get to choose who you are. You're robbie/bashy. It is what it is bud.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Hush, robbie. You don't get to choose who you are. You're robbie/bashy. It is what it is bud. Silly Fly, you even devolve into Fly syntax.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Not sure. All I know is #Cancel MyDebt is trending on twitter now because of snowflakes who think they aren't responsible for their own choices they make themselves. Brittany Hughes does a good job in the little 3 or 4 minute video above making fun of them. It's hilarious.

Interesting, it's almost like an admission of being too stupid to understand the terms of a loan.

Of course, it's not enough that they have the opportunity to leverage said education to earn more they need to have their loans forgiven, probably a foot massage too.

Instead of wiping away debt what should be done is we try to prevent future college students from also running into this issue. So that maybe the high schools and the parents of these students should make sure they truly understand the terms of the loan. And I wonder how many people took out loans to go to state schools when a community college might have worked just as well.

putinbot probably is Bash. Not seen Bash on here in a while.

Cue Bash to suddenly appear to "prove" me wrong.

Yes, I think it's pretty obvious pooty & bashy are one & the same.

If they default on their loan because they can't afford to pay it back the government will pay the creditor back itself. So you'll be paying for it regardless.

When the cost of education and healthcare have vastly outpaced median wage increases over the same period of time (the last 40-50 years), you have to take a step back and evaluate the economic sustainability of our post-secondary education system and our healthcare system.

Evaluation complete: it's not sustainable and hasn't been for almost 30 years, now, on both fronts.

So what do we do? Math is math: dollars in simply cannot equal dollars out. We are long beyond the critical point for healthcare costs and post-secondary education costs. There was room to discuss this issue in 1992 or even as late as 1995. But not now. We are way beyond the financial critical point.

What I see from the OP is a fundamental lack of understanding of dollars in, dollars out. The basics of basics of budgeting. You can no longer pick up a part time job during the summer to pay for your college tuition.

Go back to 1960:

If I made $10,000 in a year in 1960, that's the equivalent wage $106k or $126k, today.

https://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/uscompare/relativevalue.php


To put things into perspective:



In 2018 dollars, that's $4,080. That's how much private law school would cost someone in 2018 IF the same costs were in place as 1960, adjusted for inflation.


https://cei.org/blog/mind-boggling-increase-tuition-1960-even-students-learn-less-and-less



Let's take some key points away from this:

1. In 1960, private law school had an annual cost of $475 a year. Or $4080 in 2018 dollars.
2. College tuition increases have vastly outpaced median household income over the last 40-50 years. Median household income in 1967 was $7,142.97 or about $103,000 in "income value" in today's standards.
3. Sustainability of college tuition is not there, any longer. It hasn't been since the late 1990s.
4. Creating conservative threads like these to mock struggling Millennials and Gen Z voting citizens does nothing to solve the problem of simple arithmetic. It only makes you look ignorant, callused, or even malicious about the facts.



Full disclosure: my post-secondary education is almost paid off but I make much more than the median US household income and even I have to budget properly or I'd be broke.

Screw these Kids. They know College is HellaSpensive. If they screw up and can't pay em off... THAT AINT MY PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Real World SnowFlakes.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Screw these Kids. They know College is HellaSpensive. If they screw up and can't pay em off... THAT AINT MY PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Real World SnowFlakes.

Then let the country fall as all the skilled jobs go to countries with far less per capita post-secondary education and healthcare costs.


Don't worry, it's already happening. I step into the office at work and half of the most skilled workers are from India. They are better educated and possess more certifications than their American counterparts. College tuition costs far less in India. But they are still getting the English certifications. Meaning, their educations are still legit. Can't hand-wave their success and state that they are getting poor educations since they are getting the same certs Americans get.

Yeah we need to look at the cost of education as well, it needs to go down.

Also more young people need to consider trade schools.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Then let the country fall as all the skilled jobs go to countries with far less per capita post-secondary education and healthcare costs.


Don't worry, it's already happening. I step into the office at work and half of the most skilled workers are from India. They are better educated and possess more certifications than their American counterparts. College tuition costs far less in India. But they are still getting the English certifications. Meaning, their educations are still legit. Can't hand-wave their success and state that they are getting poor educations since they are getting the same certs Americans get.

Well if "our kids" go thru college and CAN'T Get Good Jobs after it...they They Aint All that Skilled then are they?

You Play... You Gotta PAY!

Guess that College Education of White Racism and how it correlates to Basket Weaving Degree wasn't such a Good Idea huh Snowflake?

Right because someone FORCED these people into university out of high school. Someone said don't go to city college first, trade schools, military. You can go to school part time and work full time especially when you are young without a family.

Paying off their debts reminds me alot of the banking situation we were in, Universities will still win while we pass the responsibility on to the rest of us taxpayers and it doesn nothing to change the cost of university so the next batch of kids can complain about the cost of their life choices.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also more young people need to consider trade schools. Meme belief. Construction jobs are easy to get and pay well BECAUSE they're shit jobs that no one wants to do. Larger labor pool = more competitive entry standards + lower wages.

Also, it is not a solution to throw the next generation into the job sector that is leading the charge in alcoholism, depression and suicide rates while also being one of the sectors hit hardest by automation and increased efficiency. Just learn a trade bro is one of the oldest conservative talking points out there, but it's just not a sustainable job field at all.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Someone said don't go to... trade schools, military. Why would you ever tell someone you love to do either of these things? Also, if your goal is to reduce tax-payers' burden, encouraging more people to join the military is counter-intuitive.

I'll pay my goddamn student loans happily, I'm glad I took the loan on to get the degree I did, but I do think there should be a free, state alternative to paid education. We have free, state education for normal school in the UK so I don't see why we can't have the same for university.


I'd probably choose to go to a loan- or pay-based university either way, but having a state version would open up more opportunities for people to study, and thus give us more trained professionals to take up high-level positions instead of importing them from other countries.

The world needs plumbers, welders, carpenters, truck drivers, cook. Some people like that work just like some people like to program computers, design cars, practice medicine.

Although not everyone has the aptitude to do all things nor the desire.

Someone that joins the military has the opportunity to learn skills that they can use in real life in addition to assisting getting their university paid for and making a living vs a university student just being a student with no work skills or wages from simply being a student.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Well if "our kids" go thru college and CAN'T Get Good Jobs after it...they They Aint All that Skilled then are they?

You mean if our kids CAN'T go through college and get good jobs because they CAN'T stack up against the foreigners who CAN, yes, I agree; we're f*cked.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Right because someone FORCED these people into university out of high school.

Here's how the math works:

1. Cost of living is much higher for the younger generations compared to the past. This is irrespective of inflation due to the weirdly overly inflated education and healthcare costs but rather static costs in other items.
2. You need a degree and/or certifications to get great jobs.
3. Tuition and costs for #2 are far higher than ever relative to median household income.
4. Now our children are FORCED to get college educations or professional certifications where tuition and fees are too costly to afford.

Yes, they are forced. Unless you want them living in poverty, unable to buy homes, unable to start families.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what is happening:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/these-are-the-reasons-why-millions-of-millennials-cant-buy-houses.html




Originally posted by snowdragon
Someone said don't go to city college first, trade schools, military. You can go to school part time and work full time especially when you are young without a family.


You do not "trade" type jobs are being slowly whittled away by automation, right? On top of that, trade schools are also victims of the tuition inflation problem. It still costs money to go to those.


Originally posted by snowdragon
Paying off their debts reminds me alot of the banking situation we were in, Universities will still win while we pass the responsibility on to the rest of us taxpayers and it doesn nothing to change the cost of university so the next batch of kids can complain about the cost of their life choices.

1. Pretending they are stupid and entitled because of costs being out of their control, however, is not productive.

2. Someone needs to address the cost issue. Why can't it start with Millenials?

3. There are more solutions to the tuition and healthcare cost problems than just "throw tax dollars at it." That goes for global warming, as well.

Originally posted by snowdragon
The world needs plumbers, welders, carpenters, truck drivers, cook. Some people like that work just like some people like to program computers, design cars, practice medicine.

This is actually a good point and I've been talking about it a lot.

Plumbers and electricians will be among the last to get automated and replaced by AI.

https://interestingengineering.com/ai-expert-claims-plumbers-and-electricians-will-be-last-to-get-replaced-by-robots


Truck Drivers are already being replaced by SDCs, however. It's not a very stable career if you're just now starting out.


But what about people who just do not want to do those blue-collar type jobs? What if they suck horribly at anything that requires high-skilled hand-eye coordination?

You can earn as you learn when you are in trade schools, not only that many trades are safe from automation because certain things don't automate well such as working on homes after they are constructed etc.



Yup, no one forced them into university straight out of highschool. Community college and working while you attend school part time are options so is joining the military, I'm not saying don't get an education and making a black and white scenario, just the opposite.

It looks like another govt made problem, make sure more loans are available for education then take over the loans now we want to erase the cost of loans ie put it on the shoulders of everyone else.

Originally posted by snowdragon
You can earn as you learn when you are in trade schools, not only that many trades are safe from automation because certain things don't automate well such as working on homes after they are constructed etc.



Yup, no one forced them into university straight out of highschool. Community college and working while you attend school part time are options so is joining the military, I'm not saying don't get an education and making a black and white scenario, just the opposite.

It looks like another govt made problem, make sure more loans are available for education then take over the loans now we want to erase the cost of loans ie put it on the shoulders of everyone else.

I believe the argument is going to become more and more null as time goes on because post-secondary education will become less and less popular.


"Going to college" will become the stupid move and the college tuition problem will solve itself.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is actually a good point and I've been talking about it a lot.

Plumbers and electricians will be among the last to get automated and replaced by AI.

https://interestingengineering.com/ai-expert-claims-plumbers-and-electricians-will-be-last-to-get-replaced-by-robots


Truck Drivers are already being replaced by SDCs, however. It's not a very stable career if you're just now starting out.


But what about people who just do not want to do those blue-collar type jobs? What if they suck horribly at anything that requires high-skilled hand-eye coordination?

Well the solution is now obvious: we need to start figuring out ways to transfer our consciousness into robots.

The problem is with people with worthless degrees and people who drop out, and then go around unemployed for a couple of years while watching the interest of their loans take off before finally getting a job in their late twenties serving coffee so that they can make a twenty year payment plan to pay off their loans because of the steep rents.

But poor choices and a lack of ambition doesn't exempt people from their responsibilities. They were of age when they took that loan and they should be expected to pay it back in full.

Originally posted by Astner
The problem is with people with worthless degrees and people who drop out, and then go around unemployed for a couple of years while watching the interest of their loans take off before finally getting a job in their late twenties serving coffee so that they can make a twenty year payment plan to pay off their loans because of the steep rents.

But poor choices and a lack of ambition doesn't exempt people from their responsibilities. They were of age when they took that loan and they should be expected to pay it back in full.

Exactly:

How many students drop out?
57% of students enrolled in college are not done after six years. Of that 57%, 33% of them drop out entirely. The remaining 24% stay enrolled in school, either full- or part-time.

What percentage of Caucasians drop out of college?
Just about 38% of Caucasians drop out of college.

What percentage of Asians drop out of college?
1.2% fewer Asians drop out of college than Caucasians. 63.2% of Asians complete their intended degree.

What percentage of African Americans drop out of college?
62% of African Americans do not complete their intended degree within 6 years of enrollment.

What percentage of Hispanics drop out of college?
54.8% of Hispanics enrolled in college, but do not complete their degree within 6 years.

https://www.creditdonkey.com/college-dropout-statistics.html

Of course, this doesn't cover folks that get degrees in fields that have a low placement or employment history.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Silly Fly, you even devolve into Fly syntax.

He can't help it. Drugs and all.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Exactly:

How many students drop out?
57% of students enrolled in college are not done after six years. Of that 57%, 33% of them drop out entirely. The remaining 24% stay enrolled in school, either full- or part-time.

What percentage of Caucasians drop out of college?
Just about 38% of Caucasians drop out of college.

What percentage of Asians drop out of college?
1.2% fewer Asians drop out of college than Caucasians. 63.2% of Asians complete their intended degree.

What percentage of African Americans drop out of college?
62% of African Americans do not complete their intended degree within 6 years of enrollment.

What percentage of Hispanics drop out of college?
54.8% of Hispanics enrolled in college, but do not complete their degree within 6 years.

https://www.creditdonkey.com/college-dropout-statistics.html

Of course, this doesn't cover folks that get degrees in fields that have a low placement or employment history.
Your facts are racist.

LOL @ triggered Bernie supporters making excuses for all of these snowflakes demanding taxpayers should have to pay off their college debts.


Quit making excuses for them. They chose to take out those loans for college. No one made them do it. Taxpayers shouldn't have to suffer for it. End of discussion.


I know it's basically pointless trying to argue with crazy Bernie supporters who seem to think money grows on trees and don't seem to believe in personal responsibility so I won't attempt to try. And before someone says these kids are "forced" into taking expensive college courses for degrees that usually end up being worthless because otherwise they can't get a good paying job that is total horseshit and you know it. They have many other options as the attractive Brittany Hughes pointed out in her short video in link I posted in OP so I won't bother repeating them here.

One other thing I forgot to mention: joining the military is most definitely not a bad decision at all. As the other poster pointed out you can learn skills in the military that can then be transferred to a good paying civilian job. You can also apply for a GI Bill like I did when I joined in which the military helps pay for most of any schooling you take after you get out.


One other really good thing about joining the military: it teaches you discipline and makes you grow up and that is something these sjw snowflake types surely need.

At the end of the day, it's not going to happen. The students in debt that think that the tax-payers should bail them out represent a small minority, and it doesn't help that they come across as pretentious, entitled and self-serving.

I left private college for this reason. I had a scholarship, but they still were raising tuition by $1,000 each semester. I said nope and transfered to public university. Same if not better curriculum quality tbh.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae


One other really good thing about joining the military: it teaches you discipline and makes you grow up and that is something these sjw snowflake types surely need.

Karate does the same thing

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
But Bernie, you are Bernie. Get lose, fly.

I hate college graduates. They've literally never contributed to society.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I hate college graduates. They've literally never contributed to society.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Get lose, fly.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tIeCLkB8geYtW/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
He can't help it. Drugs and all. I understand why they don't want an educated or skilled work force.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I can't help it. Drugs I do em all. Specially duh Pot huhuhuhuh

https://slipperyslopebox.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/pothead.jpg


Poor Bashy... The Pot has given him a case of the tards.

Originally posted by TempAccount
I left private college for this reason. I had a scholarship, but they still were raising tuition by $1,000 each semester. I said nope and transfered to public university. Same if not better curriculum quality tbh.



Karate does the same thing


Yes, but karate lessons can be quit expensive if I'm not mistaken. Joining the military is free and as a bonus they provide you with housing (a free place to sleep and shower at least) and meals. It also gives you a great sense of pride and accomplishment knowing you honorably served your country for at least a few years.


Only down side, and I admit that it is a pretty big one, is that you don't have all the same freedoms that a civilian has and you can't just decide if you're fed-up to quit one day... unless of course you like being tracked down by the government, serving some jail time (the Brigg is what it's called in the navy), and then being dishonorably discharged and having that huge black mark on any job applications you ever fill out later which makes it hard to get a good job.


I also notice you conveniently left out the first part of my post where I mentioned the military teaches you skills that you can then use later after getting out of the service which can be applied to a good paying civilian job. Learning karate can obviously make it easier to defend yourself in a fight but other than that it's not really useful in respect to getting a good job that uses that skill unless of course you are so good at it you can fight professionally.


Taking karate lessons also doesn't give you access to college tuition assistance after you finish them the way that some military programs like the GI Bill does after you get out of the military.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Yes, but karate lessons can be quite expensive if I'm not mistaken. Joining the military is free and as a bonus they provide you with housing (a free place to sleep and shower at least) and meals. It also gives you a great sense of pride and accomplishment knowing you honorably served your country for at least a few years.


Only down side, and I admit that it is a pretty big one, is that you don't have all the same freedoms that a civilian has and you can't just decide if you're fed-up to quit one day... unless of course you like being tracked down by the government, serving some jail time (the Brigg is what it's called in the navy), and then being dishonorably discharged and having that huge black mark on any job applications you ever fill out later which makes it hard to get a good job.


I also notice you conveniently left out the first part of my post where I mentioned the military teaches you skills that you can then use later after getting out of the service which can be applied to a good paying civilian job. Learning karate can obviously make it easier to defend yourself in a fight but other than that it's not really useful in respect to getting a good job that uses that skill unless of course you are so good at it you can fight professionally.


Taking karate lessons also doesn't give you access to college tuition assistance after you finish them the way that some military programs like the GI Bill does after you get out of the military.


*sigh* Wasn't able to edit in time. Obviously in the first sentence were I typed 'quit' I meant 'quite'. It shouldn't be a big deal but it wouldn't surprise me if someone like rob came along and accused me of not being able to spell or something because I made a simple typo lol.

Well U R I so..

I would rather pay for another war, based on a lie, to benefit a corporation

Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
I would rather pay for another war, based on a lie, to benefit a corporation Excellent post.

Maybe we should just make all Colleges Internment Camps so the rest of Society isn't forced to coddle the Delicate Snowflakes that such places now produce.

Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
I would rather pay for another war, based on a lie, to benefit a corporation

We should definitely try to find ways not to spend money on wars...while at the same time vowing not to pay off student debt.

What if we sent all the snowflake students off to the war so they could pay their debts off that way?

It would be a Win Win!

Meanwhile, back in reality, the younger generations are stuck with the financial problems and b*tching at them to just "get it done" and "pay for it!" isn't working.

And the moment I take public office, I'm going to do everything in my power to cut military spending in the US. Whoooops! There goes your "join the military" option!

I plan to cut it in half and then some. $350 billion a year is more than enough.

Guess what I'll invest in? Science and technology. NASA is getting a massive bump. ICE is getting dissolved. So is DHS.


You don't have to support Bernie to be against stupid short-sighted economics like yours.

So what is your proposal for solving the tuition and healthcare cost problems? Instead of b*tching about young people wanting help to pay for college, tell me your solutions. I don't like whiners from the left or right. Criticize away but offer some solutions or you're just a whiner, as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Meanwhile, back in reality, the younger generations are stuck with the financial problems and b*tching at them to just "get it done" and "pay for it!" isn't working.

And the moment I take public office, I'm going to do everything in my power to cut military spending in the US. Whoooops! There goes your "join the military" option!

I plan to cut it in half and then some. $350 billion a year is more than enough.

Guess what I'll invest in? Science and technology. NASA is getting a massive bump. ICE is getting dissolved. So is DHS.


You don't have to support Bernie to be against stupid short-sighted economics like yours.

So what is your proposal for solving the tuition and healthcare cost problems? Instead of b*tching about young people wanting help to pay for college, tell me your solutions. I don't like whiners from the left or right. Criticize away but offer some solutions or you're just a whiner, as well.
Healthcare: Mandate insurance companies create more pools based on health and age brackets (yes allow them to discriminate against conditions). Exercising and eating healthy should be rewarded.

College: Abolish private universities. Have the state take control of these universities and eliminate the bullshit.

Eliminate majors that contain the word "studies" within the name. (Indiana State did something like this a few years ago)

Originally posted by Flyattractor
https://media.giphy.com/media/tIeCLkB8geYtW/giphy.gif As if you ever went to college.

Originally posted by quanchi112
As if you ever went to college.


Oh I did Junior.. I did.. Had a Hell of a Time Too!

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Oh I did Junior.. I did.. Had a Hell of a Time Too!

I bet you walked by one once

And I bet you haven't even drove by one unless it had a day care....cause.. well...

Haven't you heard... I am a NO ACCOUNT!

**PROVE IT**


Or should I just wait for Surt to get here and SCHOOL you on this subject...AGAIN!?

Sounds like you just gave in to the point.


Or as Quanchi/Eon puts it.

THANKS FOR YOUR ADMITTANCE OF DEFEAT!

Is that your way of saying you want me to ...GET IN YOUR VAN?

Non profits my arse.


Yale owns so much land, and brings in so much money. How organizations like that are a non profit is beyond me.


I don't think existing tax money should be paying off tuition. But by all means, strip them of non profit status on all of their holdings and use that towards student loans.

.....I don't buy it.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
.....I don't buy it.

Sorry to hear. Hope you have a good night

So folks whining about someone to fix their problems (that they created) is somehow worthy of govt force? Does this include everyone that dropped out and still has debt?



Once again, solutions are everywhere. They may not be the easiest/simplest solution though and they might require work from the individuals that owe money. Instead the solution from you and several democrats is that every tax paying citizen OWES students that have accrued debt and using force through the govt it will be repaid (at others expense.) Students were not forced into their situations but want to force their solution on the backs of everyone around them.

Make the universities accountable for the students loans, watch all the garbage degree programs disappear when they become accountable for students success. Paying off their debst while said institutions still rake in money without consequence is no different then what we did with banks (who are bigger then before to big to fail.)

Originally posted by Surtur
We should definitely try to find ways not to spend money on wars...while at the same time vowing not to pay off student debt.



Yeah, I really don 't understand the argument that because we've wasted money on wars based on false pretenses that it means we should also all be forced to pay for a bunch of little entitled brats' so-called "education" because they were irresponsible making the choices they made (taking out huge loans that they knew would be extremely hard to pay back) and didn't bother to seriously think it thru or bother to consider their many other much less risky options available to them.


Bottom line: forcing taxpayers to pay off other people's student loans is immoral, but considering that the people who support that are also the same ones who praise socialism/communism and think free market capitalism is "evil" it shouldn't really be surprising that they hold that crazy position as well.


Keep in mind also that if these sjw snowflake types were to miraculously get their way and force taxpayers to pay off their debts all it would do is encourage them to be even more irresponsible with their other finances in the future.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Meanwhile, back in reality, the younger generations are stuck with the financial problems and b*tching at them to just "get it done" and "pay for it!" isn't working.

And the moment I take public office, I'm going to do everything in my power to cut military spending in the US. Whoooops! There goes your "join the military" option!

I plan to cut it in half and then some. $350 billion a year is more than enough.

Guess what I'll invest in? Science and technology. NASA is getting a massive bump. ICE is getting dissolved. So is DHS.


You don't have to support Bernie to be against stupid short-sighted economics like yours.

So what is your proposal for solving the tuition and healthcare cost problems? Instead of b*tching about young people wanting help to pay for college, tell me your solutions. I don't like whiners from the left or right. Criticize away but offer some solutions or you're just a whiner, as well.

How is it those demanding their debts be paid off aren't whining?

Originally posted by snowdragon
So folks whining about someone to fix their problems (that they created) is somehow worthy of govt force? Does this include everyone that dropped out and still has debt?



Once again, solutions are everywhere. They may not be the easiest/simplest solution though and they might require work from the individuals that owe money. Instead the solution from you and several democrats is that every tax paying citizen OWES students that have accrued debt and using force through the govt it will be repaid (at others expense.) Students were not forced into their situations but want to force their solution on the backs of everyone around them.

Make the universities accountable for the students loans, watch all the garbage degree programs disappear when they become accountable for students success. Paying off their debst while said institutions still rake in money without consequence is no different then what we did with banks (who are bigger then before to big to fail.)


Or medical institutions, who charge whatever they want while everyone blames insurance companies for high medical costs (Insurances don't set medical prices.) Universal medical care would simply be easy money for a broken system, with the the industry essentially shaking down tax payers, like they shake down insurance companies now.

I mean either way, I think we should remove all grievance studies from public universities.

I bet the students in grievance studies are those grieving the most over having to pay off their loans...lol.

"How was I supposed to know this kind of education was useless? Who could have foreseen?!"

Originally posted by Surtur
I bet the students in grievance studies are those grieving the most over having to pay off their loans...lol.

"How was I supposed to know this kind of education was useless? Who could have foreseen?!"

#learn2code

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Yeah, I really don 't understand the argument that because we've wasted money on wars based on false pretenses that it means we should also all be forced to pay for a bunch of little entitled brats' so-called "education" because they were irresponsible making the choices they made (taking out huge loans that they knew would be extremely hard to pay back) and didn't bother to seriously think it thru or bother to consider their many other much less risky options available to them.


Bottom line: forcing taxpayers to pay off other people's student loans is immoral, but considering that the people who support that are also the same ones who praise socialism/communism and think free market capitalism is "evil" it shouldn't really be surprising that they hold that crazy position as well.


Keep in mind also that if these sjw snowflake types were to miraculously get their way and force taxpayers to pay off their debts all it would do is encourage them to be even more irresponsible with their other finances in the future. Relax. You need to calm down over the fact we get taxed on bs all the time for the elite scum.

Originally posted by TempAccount
Healthcare: Mandate insurance companies create more pools based on health and age brackets (yes allow them to discriminate against conditions).

This is an extremely stupid idea. It makes the problems worse, it does not make them better. This is very close to the worst idea possible to address the skyrocketing healthcare costs. I think you're joking.

Originally posted by TempAccount
Exercising and eating healthy should be rewarded.

This is a brilliant idea and it should be adopted immediately. But the administrative costs of proving compliance could get high. How does one prove they are exercising and eating healthily to get this tax credit?

Originally posted by TempAccount
College: Abolish private universities. Have the state take control of these universities and eliminate the bullshit.

This does not address the problem at all. It just attacks a red herring and increases the actual problem. Now you have more expensive state schools under your scenario with the loss of freedom for those who want to buy a product or service.

Originally posted by TempAccount
Eliminate majors that contain the word "studies" within the name. (Indiana State did something like this a few years ago)

Do you have anything that supports this idea? I'd like to explore it more.

Originally posted by cdtm
Non profits my arse.


Yale owns so much land, and brings in so much money. How organizations like that are a non profit is beyond me.


I don't think existing tax money should be paying off tuition. But by all means, strip them of non profit status on all of their holdings and use that towards student loans.

What about doing with the Cherokee Nation does? If you are part of the CN, you can get your college completely paid for. But you have to give up 2 years of your career, post education, to serve the CN. You still get paid. But your actual pay is less than jumping straight into the commercial sector, of course. I think this is a great idea.

But it only works for the CN. I think the Creek Nation has a similar program but I have no experience with that.

Seems like more programs like that could pop up.

Originally posted by snowdragon
So folks whining about someone to fix their problems (that they created) is somehow worthy of govt force? Does this include everyone that dropped out and still has debt?

Please, tell me how the Gen Z children, who are just now entering into college, caused the skyrocteting healthcare costs and tuition costs over the last 50 years? I'd love to read that argument.

Let me know how the millenials did it, as well: I'd love to read that argument.


How could either generation cause these problems that started before they were even born?



Originally posted by snowdragon
Instead the solution from you and several democrats is that every tax paying citizen OWES students that have accrued debt and using force through the govt it will be repaid (at others expense.)

Wait, what? When did I state that was a solution? When did I state what my solution actual was? I'm only pointing out the idiocy of morons who don't understand economics.



Originally posted by snowdragon
Make the universities accountable for the students loans, watch all the garbage degree programs disappear when they become accountable for students success. Paying off their debst while said institutions still rake in money without consequence is no different then what we did with banks (who are bigger then before to big to fail.)

Hey...those programs actually do exist. I think some lawsuits have been started related to claims the universities make, as well.

Originally posted by cdtm
Or medical institutions, who charge whatever they want while everyone blames insurance companies for high medical costs (Insurances don't set medical prices.) Universal medical care would simply be easy money for a broken system, with the the industry essentially shaking down tax payers, like they shake down insurance companies now.

What? No, insurance companies DO set medical prices. These are called the negotiated fees.

And they create pools of these things call "usual and customary" charges.

Insurance companies literally set the prices in the most direct way possible. And then they get to pay those fees. They have so much power that they can force entire hospital networks to fail. When those disagreements happen, everyone starts shitting their pants.



I worked for one of the largest healthcare insurance companies for 2 years. It was the most corrupt and evil job I ever had.

I already discussed options for the current generation of would-be university students.



Woops, shame on me for the assumption.



This is where I laughed at the idea college grads demand debt payment.

I've said it before that if someone like Bernie got his way and there were no tuition costs we would see alot less people getting into university due to limited slots and the competition of filling said slots.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is an extremely stupid idea. It makes the problems worse, it does not make them better. This is very close to the worst idea possible to address the skyrocketing healthcare costs. I think you're joking.

Uh no. Healthcare costs more because healthy people are pooled along with unhealthy ones and hence forced to pay the cost of their chronic conditions. It makes problems worse for those who are irresponsible/ignorant and benefits the responsible/healthy.


Originally posted by dadudemon

This is a brilliant idea and it should be adopted immediately. But the administrative costs of proving compliance could get high. How does one prove they are exercising and eating healthily to get this tax credit?


Physical tests could be administered voluntarily (as a means to reduce premiums) similar to the one required to enter the military. Passing them likely indicates you are in better health.


Originally posted by dadudemon

This does not address the problem at all. It just attacks a red herring and increases the actual problem. Now you have more expensive state schools under your scenario with the loss of freedom for those who want to buy a product or service.


There is a lot of administrative bullshit and bureaucracy in universities which can only be eliminated by the government acting as a central force. Presidents and deans are payed obscene amounts of salary for no good reason; there are unnecessary positions being created to accommodate alumni who couldn't get a "real job" and the cost of their salary is passed onto tuition. Sports in this country gather an obscene amount of attention and money in universities. Endowment for privates is crazy. Did you know Harvard's endowment is large enough that they could pay every one of their students' tuition for the next 50+ years? (It's 38 billion btw)




Originally posted by dadudemon

Do you have anything that supports this idea? I'd like to explore it more.

Wisconsin University wants to eliminate english, history, philosophy majors:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-public-college-wants-to-cut-english-history-and-11-other-liberal-arts-majors-2018-03-16


It makes sense, really. Excess useless programs just eat up money and provide nothing in return.

Originally posted by snowdragon
I already discussed options for the current generation of would-be university students.

That doesn't address my question.


Originally posted by snowdragon
This is where I laughed at the idea college grads demand debt payment.

I've said it before that if someone like Bernie got his way and there were no tuition costs we would see alot less people getting into university due to limited slots and the competition of filling said slots.

Meanwhile, highly skilled, high-education-required jobs are going to foreigners who are getting extremely low-cost or even free educations.

Why doesn't this concern you?


There's a solution somewhere between free education for all and the current system. What is your suggestion? My mother, who is an accountant, suggested the removal of all government loan subsidies. She said that the bottom would fall out of the education system if they tried to continue down the path of hyper-tuition-inflation. If people cannot get the loans, they can't go to school. Schools would have no choice but to offer more affordable education - no government subsidy to prop up the student loan market.


That gets us part of the way, there. Doesn't solve the problem, imo.

Another option is to require 2 elements be in place:

1. Loans must be paid back at 20% of income or less within 6 years of graduation. At the 6 year mark, the loan is either paid off or forgiven.

2. Schools must guarantee, within 3 sigma, job income and job placement such that 6 year loans can be paid off. If they cannot, they must offer the degrees at lower costs.

"But...but! So many schools would go out of business." Sounds good.

And why did I use 6 years? Because usury after 7 years is a sin according to the bible. aahahahahaha!!!!!

We just need to get the cost of education down. It is insane.

Originally posted by TempAccount
Uh no. Healthcare costs more because healthy people are pooled along with unhealthy ones and hence forced to pay the cost of their chronic conditions. It makes problems worse for those who are irresponsible/ignorant and benefits the responsible/healthy.

Your idea is granted.

Now large swathes of the population cannot afford their healthcare insurance and the existing problem of emergency healthcare use drastically increases causing the most extreme healthcare-cost hyperinflation ever seen.

Ready to rethink your idea?

Or is this your subtle way of implementing eugenics while also ignoring the young and the old?


Originally posted by TempAccount
Physical tests could be administered voluntarily (as a means to reduce premiums) similar to the one required to enter the military. Passing them likely indicates you are in better health.

So you have to actively participate in the discount system to get the tax credit? You can't just prove you're eating well and working out (there will probably be some who still aren't healthy despite those things because of genetic, congenital, or postnatal problems).

I don't have much opposition to this idea. Seems like a good one. What are some problems with this idea that you can think of?


Originally posted by TempAccount
There is a lot of administrative bullshit and bureaucracy in universities which can only be eliminated by the government acting as a central force. Presidents and deans are payed obscene amounts of salary for no good reason; there are unnecessary positions being created to accommodate alumni who couldn't get a "real job" and the cost of their salary is passed onto tuition. Sports in this country gather an obscene amount of attention and money in universities. Endowment for privates is crazy. Did you know Harvard's endowment is large enough that they could pay every one of their students' tuition for the next 50+ years? (It's 38 billion btw)


About the sports thing:
Sort of....very few athletic programs make money for schools. Found this article. Looks like the list is about 8 colleges:

" University of Georgia (UGA), Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."


https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx


But about the endowments...

Could not these endowments be used to pay for all of the tuition, facility upgrades, equipment upgrades, etc. for most universities? I was looking at this and the investment opportunities with these endowments if invested in mediocre bonds is ridiculous even for smaller state colleges. And couldn't these bond investments be "incestuous" meaning, if the school wanted upgrades, they could get a municipal or state bond approved and then invest money in that generated bond to get their facility upgrades?

But back to the topic: closing all private schools still does not address the problem at all. Like I said, it's a red herring.



Originally posted by TempAccount
Wisconsin University wants to eliminate english, history, philosophy majors:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-public-college-wants-to-cut-english-history-and-11-other-liberal-arts-majors-2018-03-16

It makes sense, really. Excess useless programs just eat up money and provide nothing in return.

This is actually super cool. 3 of my degrees are in the Humanities: Philosophy, Political Science, and History.

The classes for those degrees were far more fun and interesting than the 2 STEM degrees I got. However, I can see why those degrees could easily be earned online for quite cheap and still get a quality education (or even better than the classroom). I'm okay with getting rid of those degrees in brick and mortar schools.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Your idea is granted.

Now large swathes of the population cannot afford their healthcare insurance and the existing problem of emergency healthcare use drastically increases causing the most extreme healthcare-cost hyperinflation ever seen.

Ready to rethink your idea?

Or is this your subtle way of implementing eugenics while also ignoring the young and the old?
Yes. It benefits me and those like me. This is all I care for.
Universal health-care for those under 18, or under 25 enrolled full-time in university, in which government-sponsored education is mandated to form good health-habits into adulthood.



Originally posted by dadudemon

So you have to actively participate in the discount system to get the tax credit? You can't just prove you're eating well and working out (there will probably be some who still aren't healthy despite those things because of genetic, congenital, or postnatal problems).
Not sure how one could prove they are working-out / eating well. I'd support other biometrics like blood cholesterol, resting heart-rate, BP, blood glucose, etc being implemented as well. Of course submitting these results to insurance companies would be optional so those in poor health aren't put in a worse situation financially.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I don't have much opposition to this idea. Seems like a good one. What are some problems with this idea that you can think of?
Naturally strong men doing well while young despite living terribly. Once their condition deteriorates the results will show. This voluntary test would need to be repeated every year or two to keep your discounted rates.

Other problems are your standard bribing, discrimination against women's physicals, etc




Originally posted by dadudemon

About the sports thing:
Sort of....very few athletic programs make money for schools. Found this article. Looks like the list is about 8 colleges:

" University of Georgia (UGA), Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."


https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx

Regardless too much money is spent on stadiums, rec centers, student centers and other unnecessary expenses conducive to a learning environment.

Originally posted by dadudemon

But about the endowments...

Could not these endowments be used to pay for all of the tuition, facility upgrades, equipment upgrades, etc. for most universities? I was looking at this and the investment opportunities with these endowments if invested in mediocre bonds is ridiculous even for smaller state colleges. And couldn't these bond investments be "incestuous" meaning, if the school wanted upgrades, they could get a municipal or state bond approved and then invest money in that generated bond to get their facility upgrades?

But back to the topic: closing all private schools still does not address the problem at all. Like I said, it's a red herring.

Endowment numbers are insane; schools just sit on it as non-taxable income.

At the very least schools need to be regulated more to solve problems of inefficiency and corruption.




Originally posted by dadudemon

This is actually super cool. 3 of my degrees are in the Humanities: Philosophy, Political Science, and History.

The classes for those degrees were far more fun and interesting than the 2 STEM degrees I got. However, I can see why those degrees could easily be earned online for quite cheap and still get a quality education (or even better than the classroom). I'm okay with getting rid of those degrees in brick and mortar schools.
Yes, I enjoyed such classes as well but chose to take them in high-school or as required electives in college. Keep them as minors if they'd like, but no market value majors should be eliminated.

Its funny cause once upon a time when you went to College it was to Prepare you for The Real World.

Sanders said forgiving all student loan debt would cost less than the Republican tax cuts:

by the math, he's right. And the student loan debt would be over a longer period of time, too.



So we have a $10+ trillion middle eastern war campaign lasting for almost 20 years, tax cuts that benefited only special interests and the extreme rich, and then we have these weird people on KMC that think forgiving student loan debt is a horrible sin.


I'm not a Sanders voter, nor do I suggest we forgive all student loan debt. But if you wanted to boost the economy, you could get rid of that tax cut, forgive all student loan debt backed by the Federal Government, and end 3 of our 6 active wars.

And STILL end up saving money.

So if all dollars out aren't the same then what is the subjective term used to identify better? What is better?

Originally posted by snowdragon
So if all dollars out aren't the same then what is the subjective term used to identify better? What is better?

This is a great question. Dollars are not the same based on wealth levels. A tax break for me is not the same as a tax break or the bottom quintile of income earners.

Here is how the math works out:

GNP = Gross National Product:
C = consumption spending by individuals
I = investment spending (business spending on machinery, etc.),
G = government purchases
NX = net exports

GNP = C + I + G + NX




https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/tax_cuts.asp


The short of it: poor people all the way up through the middle to upper middle class simply spend more than the top quintile. A tax break for the first 4 quintiles is a much better boost for the economy than a tax break for the top quintile.

What is best is the proposed FairTax system. People who avoid taxes will be captured with the new system. The poor would get a UBI from the system. Illegals wouldn't be able to hoard cash to avoid taxes. Imagine the tens of millions of illegals and legal immigrants who operate everything in their lives with cash to avoid taxes? Now they'd still have to pay taxes with cash because the federal tax will occur at the point of sale.

All those businesses that use magic to avoid taxes? Captured under the FairTax system. Doesn't matter if they have offshore accounts.


Forgiving all student loan debt and ending 3 out of the 6 active wars we have going on would still save us a ton of money: trillions. It would be a huge boost to the economy as well and all of us would benefit. This type of benefit to everyone but the wealthy would never work in the US because it would be lobbied and corruptly shot down before it took traction.

My post was simply to put into perspective that the tax cuts on the very wealthy that the GOP got passed would pay for complete student loan forgiveness and still end up with $300 billion extra.

The system is no longer of the people, for the people, by the people. It's a true oligarchy with a small handful control almost every decision.

Let us say we do this. What about those who paid off their college debt?

If they paid off their college debt, but have some other form of debt...are we gonna wipe that away? And if not, why not?

Originally posted by Surtur
Let us say we do this. What about those who paid off their college debt?

They paid it off. So what? They get a free cookie from Subway. What about any time a law was passed where a previously harmed or struggling demographic now struggled in vain? This has happened thousands of times in US History.

Originally posted by Surtur
If they paid off their college debt, but have some other form of debt...are we gonna wipe that away? And if not, why not?

Sounds like a great idea if you want to create jobs and boost the economy as much as possible.

Let's end all 6 of our wars and pay off every American's uncollateralized debt who has less than $250k annual household income.

And still save trillions of dollars (excluding the massive amount of tax revenue, of course). Amazing...

That's how absurd the situation really is. Crazy suggestions like yours would actually end up being extremely helpful to the US.

Why is it crazy? We're already forgiving one form of debt.

Because your suggestion is an unprecedented and very anti-typical-American policy.

If you sat a bunch of economists in a room who focused mostly on tax policy, banking, and the US Economy, and asked them what the biggest and longest lasting thing we could do for the US Economy, it would be combining the two things we mentioned and forgiving all that debt overnight. Just paying it all off overnight.

Similar to what they tried to do in Fight Club but instead of destruction, it would be economic benefits.

The $1200 a month a middle class family pays for their unsecured debt obligations each month does little to boost the economy. If all of those funds went directly into purchasing goods and services, it would have a giant impact short term and long term, on the economy. This is such a crazy idea that I want to see it happen. I want to see the government run a beta program in a city to see what happens.

Try Detroit, first: large enough city with enough poor people problems that it could make a huge difference. Only those living in the city 5 years or more could qualify for your idea.



I want to see a study done.