True form Darkseid vs Ivory King

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/G4x1wGXM/psl.jpg

MrMind
hmmm, just one or the whole race?

I see DS killing one, but gets torned apart by the entire race of beyonders

BestEverNoob
The Beyonders murdered marvel cosmics like Eternity and Infinity 1v1, 3 were enough to take down the Living tribunal
Darkseid gets defeated by the justice league... he dies here.

Stoic
Originally posted by MrMind
hmmm, just one or the whole race?

I see DS killing one, but gets torned apart by the entire race of beyonders

And you called one of my posts dumb? Damn dude, get it together.

CatL18
Ivory Kings.
True Darkseid is above multiversal.
But, Ivory kings are too.
1 VS 3

Astner
Each Beyonder butchered conceptual beings like Eternity and Infinity with ease. So dealing with the conceptual representation of tyranny or whatever Darkseid was meant to be shouldn't be a problem.

Even at their absolute worst at least it took planet-level energies to kill a Beyonder, whereas Darkseid was sung to death.

Senor Cage
Darkseid could handle the ones that were killed by those planet level energy types.

Galan007
Originally posted by Astner
whereas Darkseid was sung to death. I mean, that was after Darkseid had been shot with a Radion bullet(the equivalent of New God Kryptonite), AND been struck by his own Omega Sanction/judged by the Black Racer.

TheHulkster
Ivory Kings too easily. Spite thread.

ShadowFyre
Since when is Darkseid above multiversal?

Astner
Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, that was after Darkseid had been shot with a Radion bullet(the equivalent of New God Kryptonite), AND been struck by his own Omega Sanction/judged by the Black Racer.
To be fair he wasn't in his disembodied form when that happened.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Since when is Darkseid above multiversal?
Since Morrison's Final Crisis.

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Since when is Darkseid above multiversal?

Since never, that's just fanboy hogwash

This could be true from/soul fire Darkseid with ALE and still not be at these levels!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Since never, that's just fanboy hogwash

This could be true from/soul fire Darkseid with ALE and still not be at these levels!
What? Soulfire Darkseid would beat Beyonders.

And Final Crisis Darkseid was definitely bigger than entire multiverse.

MrMind
jeez we have an overflowing numbers of marvel fanboys as it is

where do these new guys come from?

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
What? Soulfire Darkseid would beat Beyonders.

And Final Crisis Darkseid was definitely bigger than entire multiverse.

I rest my case!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
I rest my case!
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

On your nonsense of course

Ok what do you think this scan proves?
That he's a Multiversal power? Cause no not even close does that prove such in anyway.

xJLxKing
Yes, it is. Considering the fact that he was dying, but still managed to drag the multiverse with him.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

On your nonsense of course

Ok what do you think this scan proves?
That he's a Multiversal power? Cause no not even close does that prove such in anyway. What are you talking about? Throughout entire Final Crisis is Darkseid wrecking the multiverse so intense that almost end the entire multiverse untill Supes using the miracle machine to repairing it.

Besides, In Darkseid war Darkseid already fighting a multiversal AM
https://i.imgur.com/9wJkryC.jpg

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Since never, that's just fanboy hogwash

This could be true from/soul fire Darkseid with ALE and still not be at these levels!

Yep.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
What are you talking about? Throughout entire Final Crisis is Darkseid wrecking the multiverse so intense that almost end the entire multiverse untill Supes using the miracle machine to repairing it.

Besides, In Darkseid war Darkseid already fighting a multiversal AM
https://i.imgur.com/9wJkryC.jpg

Bios?

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Bios? From the DC Encyclopedia 2016 and the comics itself also implied that, This Bios just further more proved it

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/25b96acd46af382cf93c67db63f28dd7/Justice_League_2011-_040-009.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/ab4f1c7d7682cdb6dd2b68c6e8f2319c/Justice_League_2011-_040-010.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/9afab75991fefa3881dc3969a2126b62/Justice_League_2011-_040-011.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/ffc8c67f6b532e7582ea36485ca17247/Justice_League_2011-_040-012.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/6fadfc173c2d15c60ff87b8dddd6a4f8/Justice_League_2011-_040-013.jpg

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

On your nonsense of course

Ok what do you think this scan proves?
That he's a Multiversal power? Cause no not even close does that prove such in anyway.

Of course it doesn't. You're debating extrapolation supreme.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
From the DC Encyclopedia 2016 and the comics itself also implied that, This Bios just furthermore proved it

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/25b96acd46af382cf93c67db63f28dd7/Justice_League_2011-_040-009.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/ab4f1c7d7682cdb6dd2b68c6e8f2319c/Justice_League_2011-_040-010.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/9afab75991fefa3881dc3969a2126b62/Justice_League_2011-_040-011.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/ffc8c67f6b532e7582ea36485ca17247/Justice_League_2011-_040-012.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/6fadfc173c2d15c60ff87b8dddd6a4f8/Justice_League_2011-_040-013.jpg

You state what you feel is implied. What exactly does AM do in Darkseid War besides ravage a single planet's surface? Metron is anticipating AM striving to cause another crisis, which he is mistaken. AM absorbs no universes in that book and is not tossing out multiversal destroying power. Not even close.

Demon of Heaven
Damn this guy is a joke, doesn't even have basic reading comprehension or just leaves out severe context of story to prove he's right.
Then tries to say AM from Darkseid wars was multiversal and comparable to his COIE self!

LMFAO

Don't even try to debate someone like this

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

Why doesn't it prove it?

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by TheHulkster
You state what you feel is implied. What exactly does AM do in Darkseid War besides ravage a single planet's surface? Metron is anticipating AM striving to cause another crisis, which he is mistaken. AM absorbs no universes in that book and is not tossing out multiversal destroying power. Not even close. What? It from the story beginning already mentioned AM was destroyed earth-3 Universe(Besides he already destroying Ultraman krypton, What made you think he only just"ravage a single planet's surface? )

And I'm not the one who state his imagination, This words been written in comics and clarified in Bios
https://imgur.com/tjvjwtA
https://i.imgur.com/uCXF2vF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gfYWvUX.jpg

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Damn this guy is a joke, doesn't even have basic reading comprehension or just leaves out severe context of story to prove he's right.
Then tries to say AM from Darkseid wars was multiversal and comparable to his COIE self!

LMFAO

Don't even try to debate someone like this Then prove I'm wrong. This scan specifically said
"In his original incarnation, The Anti-Monitor looked different, But just as powerful as his reinvented form after the flashpoint event......The anti-Monitor's multiverse resahping role remaind the same"
https://i.imgur.com/9wJkryC.jpg

And this
"You have consumed all the power you can from this universe, But I will find you another universe to consume"
https://imgur.com/tjvjwtA
https://i.imgur.com/uCXF2vF.jpg

Mr Master
One Ivory King wtfstomped an infinite amount of EternitieS (so an infinite # of universal powers)

One Ivory King wtfstomped an infinite amount of Infinities (so an infinite # of universal powers)

Now, let's be clear, this is while the BeyonderS were OUTSIDE their realm,
where they are vulnerable in m-body type shells,
and clearly not as powerful when withIN the Beyond Realm they are each,
so big, that the rest of Marvel is almost non-existent next to one Ivory King.

We know this cause, when Kubik and kosmos entered the Beyond Realm,
they themselves enlarged to such proportions the infinite multiverse seemed like a speck of dust.

When Hickman portrayed the BeyonderS from withIN the Beyond Realm,
they were depicted as GOD-like.

Evidently this idea was furhter cemented when we realize Doom has to "draw the out" of the Beyond Realm,
in order to attack them with their own PLOT power the Owen bombs.

Of course, outside their realm they're vulnerable because they had to apply physical forms.

Literally stated as to why Ex-Nihilo was able to turn the non-reactive Beyonder into a tree.

------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, give an Ivory King their "true form size" and true form Darkseid fits in one's finger tip.

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why doesn't it prove it?

1. Cause he's talking about "viewing" something(that does.NOT equal any type of power gauge)
2. Hes talking about understanding threat, not that he's viewing whole multiverse from outside multiverse.
3. Even if you take it like he's outside dimension and multiverse is smaller then him that still doesn't mean he can manipulate said multiverse, as shown in DC there dimensions that can view multiverse like that doesn't mean power levels again

DarkSaint85
Well, that scan perhaps was the wrong one.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqcJLkZc/6139361-the-entire-multiverse-begins-to-be-dragged.jpg

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
1. Cause he's talking about "viewing" something(that does.NOT equal any type of power gauge)
2. Hes talking about understanding threat, not that he's viewing whole multiverse from outside multiverse.
3. Even if you take it like he's outside dimension and multiverse is smaller then him that still doesn't mean he can manipulate said multiverse, as shown in DC there dimensions that can view multiverse like that doesn't mean power levels again Neither you haven't reading comics or just have reading comprehension problem.

Anyway, Here more proves that Darkseid Dragging/destroying the entire multiverse
https://i.imgur.com/MJ65JJJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AYx1B1Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QDOpTMH.jpg

And combined to abhi posted before, Now you accept that FC Darkseid dragging the whole multiverse?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

On your nonsense of course

Ok what do you think this scan proves?
That he's a Multiversal power? Cause no not even close does that prove such in anyway.
How does being bigger than multiverse doesn't mean he is multiversal in power?

Did you even read final crisis?

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, that scan perhaps was the wrong one.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqcJLkZc/6139361-the-entire-multiverse-begins-to-be-dragged.jpg

This speaks about a chain reaction happening from prime universe cause it's integral to structure of multiverse

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
One Ivory King wtfstomped an infinite amount of EternitieS (so an infinite # of universal powers)

One Ivory King wtfstomped an infinite amount of Infinities (so an infinite # of universal powers)

Now, let's be clear, this is while the BeyonderS were OUTSIDE their realm,
where they are vulnerable in m-body type shells,
and clearly not as powerful when withIN the Beyond Realm they are each,
so big, that the rest of Marvel is almost non-existent next to one Ivory King.

We know this cause, when Kubik and kosmos entered the Beyond Realm,
they themselves enlarged to such proportions the infinite multiverse seemed like a speck of dust.

When Hickman portrayed the BeyonderS from withIN the Beyond Realm,
they were depicted as GOD-like.

Evidently this idea was furhter cemented when we realize Doom has to "draw the out" of the Beyond Realm,
in order to attack them with their own PLOT power the Owen bombs.

Of course, outside their realm they're vulnerable because they had to apply physical forms.

Literally stated as to why Ex-Nihilo was able to turn the non-reactive Beyonder into a tree.

------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, give an Ivory King their "true form size" and true form Darkseid fits in one's finger tip.
Three Beyonders were needed to destroy LT who was just the avatar of the multiverse. Darkseid almost destroyed the entire multiverse by himself.

And their was no indication that the Beyonders avengers fought were M bodies or weakened.

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by abhilegend
How does being bigger than multiverse doesn't mean he is multiversal in power?

Did you even read final crisis?

It's more how things are viewed from said dimension. Anyone could go to the nil shown in final crisis and view things this size doesn't equal straight power levels

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
This speaks about a chain reaction happening from prime universe cause it's integral to structure of multiverse Stop lying, Monitors said is multiverse itself been damaged by Darkseid Falling, Throughout the Final Crisis never mentioned that "This speaks about a chain reaction happening from prime universe " nonsense?

Or are you trying to referring recently Doomsday Clcok? Then Darkseid dragging the entire Metaverse( Let we don't considering those comics not even the same writer. ) which is actually more impressive

abhilegend
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
This speaks about a chain reaction happening from prime universe cause it's integral to structure of multiverse
How about you prove that? Darkseid literally became everything in space and time.

https://i.postimg.cc/ykRnPyR7/image.jpg

And by that it was every timeline ever in any universe.
https://i.postimg.cc/sM9mFfK8/image.jpg

Kindly prove it was a chain reaction.

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
It's more how things are viewed from said dimension. Anyone could go to the nil shown in final crisis and view things this size doesn't equal straight power levels Again, You need Prove it, In the entire DC Universe 0 story never said is Darkseid viewing multiverse from high dimension, Was Barry seeing Darkseid dragging the entire multiverse from the speed force

Wait, Are you think those words is speaking from Darkseid?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
It's more how things are viewed from said dimension. Anyone could go to the nil shown in final crisis and view things this size doesn't equal straight power levels
So how did this happen? Originally posted by abhilegend
How about you prove that? Darkseid literally became everything in space and time.

https://i.postimg.cc/ykRnPyR7/image.jpg

And by that it was every timeline ever in any universe.
https://i.postimg.cc/sM9mFfK8/image.jpg

Kindly prove it was a chain reaction.

Demon of Heaven
So you understand this singularity that was created by Darkseid originally just started around the prime earth ONLY right?

This whole thing did NOT instantly start dragging multiverse and compressing all time/space on the spot.

It was a process that all started with time/space around earth.

Also you know with 52 universes the Earth is vocal to multiverse?
Like if you destroyed earth whole multiverse would follow.

C'mon guys...

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
So you understand this singularity that was created by Darkseid originally just started around the prime earth ONLY right?

This whole thing did NOT instantly start dragging multiverse and compressing all time/space on the spot.

It was a process that all started with time/space around earth.

Also you know with 52 universes the Earth is vocal to multiverse?
Like if you destroyed earth whole multiverse would follow.

C'mon guys...
Please offering scans to supporting what you're saying

Where stated the Multiverse had been destroying was due to chain reaction?

Demon of Heaven
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223989/4752147-iombe1n%20%281%29.jpg

Here is what Darkseid did to start this whole process!

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223989/4752147-iombe1n%20%281%29.jpg

Here is what Darkseid did to start this whole process! So where did you got Darkseid dragging the entire Multiverse was due to a chain reaction?

He become a singularity and dragging the entire multiverse, What made you think is a chain reaction?

qwertyuiop1998
Besides, Darkseid became a singularity and dragging all creation/Multiverse folded down should be a good evidence to proves Darkseid multiversal power

Definition of singularity

A point or region of infinite mass density at which space and time are infinitely distorted by gravitational forces and which is held to be the final state of matter falling into a black hole

Darkseid in his deathbed could become a black hole that dragged all multiverse

qwertyuiop1998
"Darkseid is sitting at the center of a personal singularity"
https://i.imgur.com/4jYYt0I.png
"there is a black hole where my heart should be"
https://i.imgur.com/F21klZr.png
"from here, where he(orion) no longer exists,orion cannot see me"
https://i.imgur.com/oSqSBC4.png
And abhi posted

https://i.postimg.cc/65jSBH54/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/t9gQ86CV/image.jpg

Darkseid heart become a black hole which collapsing all time-space and multiverse

TheHulkster
How does any of this put him at Ivory King Level?

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by TheHulkster
How does any of this put him at Ivory King Level? I never said that, I just disagree with Darkseid true form not a multiversal being this part

Senor Cage
Can the IK endure the omega beams?

DeadpoolXXX
i like how everyone jerking the ivory kings here likes to conveniently forget that starbrand and exnihilo killed a few of them. then unworthy thor and hyperion were raping them in droves.lol


darkseid stomps.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i like how everyone jerking the ivory kings here likes to conveniently forget that starbrand and exnihilo killed a few of them. then unworthy thor and hyperion were raping them in droves.lol


darkseid stomps.

They have a heck of a record against "multiversal beings" though.

MrMind
so did old king thanus (who later got mudstomped by 616 thanos)

TheHulkster
Originally posted by MrMind
so did old king thanus (who later got mudstomped by 616 thanos)

Agreed. King Thanos has one loss to a multiversal being on his record. His younger self.

MrMind
cool, so us normal people all agreed DS wipes Thanus away with a single handwave

TheHulkster
Originally posted by MrMind
cool, so us normal people all agreed DS wipes Thanus away with a single handwave

LOL. Normal people have never heard of Dorkseid and have only heard of Thanos in recent years.

MrMind
if you mean casual marveltards like you who never read a single comic book in your life, then yes

TheHulkster
Don't be mad because you declared Thanos to be multiversal.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
They have a heck of a record against "multiversal beings" though. yeah they beat multiversal beings. then a few of them got one pieced by starbrand and exnihilo. then thor and hyperion raped a bunch of them. then every single one of ivory kings was killed by the owen explosion which wasnt even close to a multiverse blast.think it only wiped out like 100k universes.

so in the end the ivory kings can be slaughtered by WAY less then multiversal power.darkseid stomps these overrated nothings.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
yeah they beat multiversal beings. then a few of them got one pieced by starbrand and exnihilo. then thor and hyperion raped a bunch of them. then every single one of ivory kings was killed by the owen explosion which wasnt even close to a multiverse blast.think it only wiped out like 100k universes.

so in the end the ivory kings can be slaughtered by WAY less then multiversal power.darkseid stomps these overrated nothings.

So you're saying they do poorly against Thor level beings, yet we'll against multiversal beings, thus Darkseid would stomp? That puts Darkseid at Thor and Hype level then. Of course, getting stomped by Superman, Orion, Doomsday and the Bat Kick supports this.

And as much as some try to argue, one cannot conclude that the three universe destroying Beyonders are the same ones who faced the Avengers. After all, the latter are specifically referred to as "manifestations".

Senor Cage
The batkick defeats all, though. Nothing beats it.

Demon of Heaven
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So where did you got Darkseid dragging the entire Multiverse was due to a chain reaction?

He become a singularity and dragging the entire multiverse, What made you think is a chain reaction?

Basic reading comprehension is where I got it.

Cool though whatever, agree to disagree

Agree ivory Kings are overrated also though

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So you're saying they do poorly against Thor level beings, yet we'll against multiversal beings, thus Darkseid would stomp? That puts Darkseid at Thor and Hype level then. Of course, getting stomped by Superman, Orion, Doomsday and the Bat Kick supports this.

And as much as some try to argue, one cannot conclude that the three universe destroying Beyonders are the same ones who faced the Avengers. After all, the latter are specifically referred to as "manifestations".

They also look different,to me.

BestEverNoob
I think I'm missing something here.

Admittedly my knowledge of DC isn't the best, but how the heck is Darkseid matching up against guys who stomped Eternity and Infinity when he goes down to freaking Superman.

Is this a different Darkseid or something?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by BestEverNoob
I think I'm missing something here.

Admittedly my knowledge of DC isn't the best, but how the heck is Darkseid matching up against guys who stomped Eternity and Infinity when he goes down to freaking Superman.

Is this a different Darkseid or something?

The DS being mentioned is the one who, as he fell, was dragging the whole of the multiverse down with him.

This was when he fell down some stairs, mind

Juntai
Originally posted by BestEverNoob
I think I'm missing something here.

Admittedly my knowledge of DC isn't the best, but how the heck is Darkseid matching up against guys who stomped Eternity and Infinity when he goes down to freaking Superman.

Is this a different Darkseid or something? Because a pissed off Superman finds a way to clobber all those guys in comics.

Darkseid is a multiversal threat. Many of Superman's enemies are in the galaxy/universal/multiversal level.

SquallX
Originally posted by BestEverNoob
I think I'm missing something here.

Admittedly my knowledge of DC isn't the best, but how the heck is Darkseid matching up against guys who stomped Eternity and Infinity when he goes down to freaking Superman.

Is this a different Darkseid or something?

The same can be argue as how they would beat Darkness when a slew of them fell to Thor and Hyperion so easily.

Mr Master
I've seen several cats misinterpreting that Thor and Hyperion scene.

Thor and Hyperion were getting curbstomped by ONE Beyonder,

they were literally about to die at the hands of that ONE Beyonder
before Starbrand explosion interrupted the ONE Beyonnder.

That ONE Beyonder got his face obliterated by Thor's hammer,
and without emotion or hesitation that ONE Beyonder effortlessly repaired itself instantly.

That ONE Beyonder easily ripped Thor's arm off,
when it could've just as easily rips off his head, which is connected to softer tissue, bone, muscle.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242378_On1.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242379_On2.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242380_On3.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242381_On4.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242382_On5.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242383_On6.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242384_On7.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242385_On9.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242386_On10.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------

So, it's laughable if anyone really thinks either Thor or Hyperion actually hurt ANY Beyonder
in the overkill scene.

They were beat up and near death, and yall think they fared better against an army,
when they couldn't even faze ONE?

Overkill! ... EVEN if Thor/Hyperion manage to physically hurt
the vulnerable forms of the first BeyonderS to rush them,
as proven prior, they can easily repair their m-bodies.

So no Beyonder got lasting damage there, and that's it.

-------------------------------------------------------

The OTHER Beyonder that did nothing, literally, it did, nothing! (nor defend or attack)

Just stood there like an idiot waiting to be warped by Ex-Nihilis.

That was hilarious.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So you're saying they do poorly against Thor level beings, yet we'll against multiversal beings, thus Darkseid would stomp? That puts Darkseid at Thor and Hype level then. Of course, getting stomped by Superman, Orion, Doomsday and the Bat Kick supports this.

And as much as some try to argue, one cannot conclude that the three universe destroying Beyonders are the same ones who faced the Avengers. After all, the latter are specifically referred to as "manifestations". the ivory kings that fought the cosmic beings are the same ones who fought the avengers. anyone who read the comics knows this.


Originally posted by Mr Master
https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242378_On1.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242379_On2.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242380_On3.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242381_On4.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242382_On5.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242383_On6.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242384_On7.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242385_On9.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242386_On10.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------

So, it's laughable if anyone really thinks either Thor or Hyperion actually hurt ANY Beyonder
in the overkill scene.

They were beat up and near death, and yall think they fared better against an army,
when they couldn't even faze ONE?

Overkill! ... EVEN if Thor/Hyperion manage to physically hurt
the vulnerable forms of the first BeyonderS to rush them,
as proven prior, they can easily repair their m-bodies.

So no Beyonder got lasting damage there, and that's it.

-------------------------------------------------------

The OTHER Beyonder that did nothing, literally, it did, nothing! (nor defend or attack)

Just stood there like an idiot waiting to be warped by Ex-Nihilis.

That was hilarious. why didnt you post the final scans where thor and hyperion are tearing apart a bunch of ivory kings in droves lmao? **** the gods, you really are one of the most biased people i have ever seen on any board ever.and im from CV lol.

Galan007
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the ivory kings that fought the cosmic beings are the same ones who fought the avengers. This much, at least, is true. I've posted all this stuff before, but yeah, they are literally the exact same Beyonders -- the artists(ie. Kev Walker and Mike Deodato) simply drew them differently between issues.


At the end of NA #31, the two Beyonders are shown confronting the Multiversal Avengers in their 'classic' forms:
http://i.imgur.com/S5L6vbJh.jpg
-Art by Kev Walker


In the very next issue(NA #32), those exact same two Beyonders are shown confronting the Multiversal Avengers when the scene is fully fleshed out... Only this time they are depicted as Transformer knockoffs:
http://i.imgur.com/LUI34czh.jpg
-Art by Mike Deodato



Additionally, Owen specifically referred to those Transformer-esque beings as the Beyonder 'adult' units:
https://i.imgur.com/kwGAuTB.jpg
-Art by Mike Deodato


...As in, those are the most powerful beings the race had to offer.


This is obviously very similar to how Pym had previously described the 'classic' Beyonders who wiped out the hierarchy:
https://i.imgur.com/ikVi7Zd.jpg
-Art by Dalibor Talajic



tl;dr
SAME Beyonders. Different artistic depiction(s).

TheHulkster
Artistic difference or not, there is absolutely no proof that those are literally the same three that destroy the cosmics. The only thing that is shown is that one artist depicts all Beyonder manifestations similarly and another depicts them very differently.

Even with the similar ones, one has three eyes, which neither of the cosmic killers have. The specific Beyonders that face the Avengers are manifested for that particular purpose.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by Galan007
This much, at least, is true. I've posted all this stuff before, but yeah, they are literally the exact same Beyonders -- the artists(ie. Kev Walker and Mike Deodato) simply drew them differently between issues.


At the end of NA #31, the two Beyonders are shown confronting the Multiversal Avengers in their 'classic' forms:
http://i.imgur.com/S5L6vbJh.jpg
-Art by Kev Walker


In the very next issue(NA #32), those exact same two Beyonders are shown confronting the Multiversal Avengers when the scene is fully fleshed out... Only this time they are depicted as Transformer knockoffs:
http://i.imgur.com/LUI34czh.jpg
-Art by Mike Deodato



Additionally, Owen specifically referred to those Transformer-esque beings as the Beyonder 'adult' units:
https://i.imgur.com/kwGAuTB.jpg
-Art by Mike Deodato


...As in, those are the most powerful beings the race had to offer.


This is obviously very similar to how Pym had previously described the 'classic' Beyonders who wiped out the hierarchy:
https://i.imgur.com/ikVi7Zd.jpg
-Art by Dalibor Talajic



tl;dr
SAME Beyonders. Different artistic depiction(s). thumb upthumb up

nothing says that the ivory kings who fought the avengers were less powerful then the ones who fought the cosmic beings.the only thing they said is that the adult ivory kings are more powerful then the child ivory kings. and the ivory kings who fought the avengers and cosmics were all adults.

what they look like doesnt mean anything. pym even says- "universally adaptive.harmonically transitional. these things cannot be fully comprehended in a human fashion".

StiltmanFTW
And they jobbed like crazy to Thor (weakest character in the whole Marvel Universe) and Hickman's pet character, Hick-perion who suddenly grew a beard.

It was a horrible event, Hickman Wars.

Astner
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Artistic difference or not, there is absolutely no proof that those are literally the same three that destroy the cosmics.
There was a Beyonder in each reality.

https://i.imgur.com/6qqAgXSm.jpg

"I could see the same battle in different realities. In each one, a different Beyonder facing and destroying the Celestial host."

But if you want to argue that the Beyonders that got their asses kicked by the Avengers were Doombots then the burden of proof is on you. Because we're never lead to believe that there's a great discrepancy in power between the Beyonders in the story.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Astner
There was a Beyonder in each reality.

https://i.imgur.com/6qqAgXSm.jpg

"I could see the same battle in different realities. In each one, a different Beyonder facing and destroying the Celestial host."

But if you want to argue that the Beyonders that got their asses kicked by the Avengers were Doombots then the burden of proof is on you. Because we're never lead to believe that there's a great discrepancy in power between the Beyonders in the story.

The vast difference in performance is my proof. What is your counter?We see possibly hundreds of beyonder manifestations pouring out and the ones shown are specifically referred to as manifestations. This shows that Beyonder manifestations can be produced immediately and one cannot conclude that any one is another and one cannot conclude that they are all equal.

So how the manifestations perform against the Avengers is moot as it relates to the three who battle the cosmics.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
The vast difference in performance is my proof. but thats not proof theyre different beings with defferent levels of power. youre just pointing out their high and low showings.

you need to post actual proof that the "adults" who fought the cosmic beings were more powerful then the "adults" who fought the avengers.

until you can do that everything you said is just bullshit excuses honestly.

Mr Master
Here are the BeyonderS that killed the hierarchy in detail:

(front/middle)

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41243928_BO1.jpg

(on the left)

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41243932_BO5.jpg

(on the right)

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41243931_BO4.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here are the two BeyonderS that fought the Avengers:

(behind)

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/41243938_BO6.jpg

in front)

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41243934_BO7.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only Beyonder (of the two that fought the Avengers) that resembles the hierarchy killers,

is the front one in both cases. hm

But there's a meticulous detail that differentiates them completely! "up"

The Beyonder that slew the Cosmics, has uniquely shaped hands/forarms.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41243930_BO3.jpg

Unlike our boy who got killed by Starbrand.

Check out his hands/forarms:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/41243936_BO8.jpg

cool

DeadpoolXXX
crazy thing about the ivory kings----> they can *gasp* transform their hands/forearms into whatever shape they want-

https://i.postimg.cc/137TcGJ1/0.jpg


forget about that did we?laughing out loud


still waiting for proof that there was a great discrepancy in power between the adult ivory kings in the story

Mr Master
------------------------------------------------------------

Holy replica Batman ... you look the same in every portrayal.

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/41243969_BO2.jpg

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/41243970_BO3.jpg

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/41243971_BO9.jpg

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/41243972_BO10.jpg

Evidently, this is what you manifested as through out the entire issue.

... not shape-shifting accordingly ... it's just you with the morphing tech hands. thumb up

TheHulkster

Stoic
Originally posted by Mr Master
I've seen several cats misinterpreting that Thor and Hyperion scene.

Thor and Hyperion were getting curbstomped by ONE Beyonder,

they were literally about to die at the hands of that ONE Beyonder
before Starbrand explosion interrupted the ONE Beyonnder.

That ONE Beyonder got his face obliterated by Thor's hammer,
and without emotion or hesitation that ONE Beyonder effortlessly repaired itself instantly.

That ONE Beyonder easily ripped Thor's arm off,
when it could've just as easily rips off his head, which is connected to softer tissue, bone, muscle.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242378_On1.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242379_On2.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242380_On3.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242381_On4.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242382_On5.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242383_On6.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242384_On7.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242385_On9.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/41242386_On10.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------

So, it's laughable if anyone really thinks either Thor or Hyperion actually hurt ANY Beyonder
in the overkill scene.

They were beat up and near death, and yall think they fared better against an army,
when they couldn't even faze ONE?

Overkill! ... EVEN if Thor/Hyperion manage to physically hurt
the vulnerable forms of the first BeyonderS to rush them,
as proven prior, they can easily repair their m-bodies.

So no Beyonder got lasting damage there, and that's it.

-------------------------------------------------------

The OTHER Beyonder that did nothing, literally, it did, nothing! (nor defend or attack)

Just stood there like an idiot waiting to be warped by Ex-Nihilis.

That was hilarious.

They're also not taking into consideration that plot had to make the hero characters look good. No one, and I mean No one would have been content with the idea of Thor, and to a lesser extent Hyperion getting one shot into blood puddles. PIS was mostly what that scene was about. Anyone that knows anything about the Starbrand knows that a brand user can combat comics, and for it to have been so easily pushed aside should tell you something.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by Stoic
That most certainly is proof. You just don't want to accept it. Along with that is the statement of them being "manifestations" and the immediate production of hundreds of such manifestations.

Now YOU are making a positive assertion that they are literally the same three cosmic abstract killers. Prove it. You have yet to do so. no.

it has already been proven that BOTH versions of the ivory kings we saw were "adults" who were waaaay above the level of secret wars II beyonder. so the burden falls totally on you to prove that adult ivory kings we saw varied in power.

mentioning the high and low showings of the adults doesnt prove anything. supermans benched earth for days but then struggled to lift buildings and whatnot. point is, the same characters can definitely have good and bad showings. actually every single comic book character DOES have good and bad showings.why pretend the adult ivory kings are exempt from this truism?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Stoic

They're also not taking into consideration that plot had to make the hero characters look good. No one, and I mean No one would have been content with the idea of Thor, and to a lesser extent Hyperion getting one shot into blood puddles.

PIS was mostly what that scene was about.
thumb up ... Exactly.

You have to really be trollified to think that Thor and Hyperion did anything special.

They got stomped by ONE Beyonder ... period,

ONE Beyonder who was obviously holding back, taking its sweet time,
otherwise it would've ripped off Thor head, instead of his arm. thumb up

But yeah, somehow, troll infected ideas believe Thor and Hyperion did better vs an army.
I mean are ya kidding me? You can't make this shit up. laughing
Originally posted by Stoic

Anyone that knows anything about the Starbrand knows that a brand user can combat cosmics, and for it to have been so easily pushed aside should tell you something.

Only the mysterious Starbrand, unleashing it's full power, was able to truly damage a Beyonder.

That's pis likewise,
because "adult" units (alone) were battling and killing universal and multiversal Cosmics.

---------------------------------------------------------

The Beyonder killed by Starbrand was at least stellar level,
although he might've been beyond that,
and only highlighted that detail just to make Hyperion feel silly
when Hyperion boasted about being the sun.

Regardless, did the "planetary" explosion kill a "stellar" level being,
which doesn't make sense,
or, was the Starbrand's depth of power far beyond the scope of area it can affect?

hm

---------------------------------------------------------

The Other Beyonder was not killed,
and that Beyonder decided not to engage offensively or defensively.

It just stood there, did nothing,
and waited patiently to be warped by Ex nihilli, Abyss and the Gardeners.

Sure, Ex nihilii, Abyss and the Gardeners all died in the effort, but that was funny still.

DeadpoolXXX
yeah. makes so much more sense to just ignore every low showing these nothings have and just wank their high feats only. turn a blind eye to everything we dont like right lol?

theyd love you on comicvinelaughing out loud

Mr Master
Who's ignoring anything? Is the bias so extreme
you can't notice we're addressing the low showings in detail?

It may make sense to you, that a "planetary" explosion
would kill someone who can destroy and create stars,
which, on avg, stars are at least over 1 million times bigger than earth-like planets.

But to the sagacious, it's not sensible.

So we suggest, postulate and surf through opinions based on facts
to try and find a rational behind the senselessness.

At-least we're trying to find logic here instead of just writing it off as "PIS/CIS."

DeadpoolXXX
like i said to hulk- every single character has high and low feats. thats just how it works and the ivory kings are obviously not exempt from this truism.

in one issue they kill the cosmic beings. in the next issue they get wrecked by meager forces. you cant rationalize that or find logic in it. the ivory kings obviously had lots of power but they were able to be killed by waaaaay less in the end.

Astner

panthergod
Darkseid one-shots them.

Easily.

TheHulkster

TheHulkster
No one disputes that the Ivory Kings are Beyonders.

BrolyBlack
Darkseid is a pussy

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
There one Superman and he is not a manifestation.

Beyonder power can manifest hundreds or thousands. cool so prove the manifestations who fought the cosmic beings were weaker then the manifestations who fought the avengers.

stop dodging this simple question troll

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
cool so prove the manifestations who fought the cosmic beings were weaker then the manifestations who fought the avengers.

stop dodging this simple question troll

Uhm, prove the manifestations who fought the Avengers are the same as the ones who fought the cosmics drooling fanboy.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Uhm, prove the manifestations who fought the Avengers are the same as the ones who fought the cosmics drooling fanboy. LMAO! thats not how burden of proof works, genius.

we were never once given any reason to believe the 'adult' ivory kings varied in power. all that was said is that they were alot more powerful then the 'child' ivory kings. so if youre saying they did vary in power then the burden falls on you to prove it with something besides your troll opinions.

if you respond back with more dodging and question ignoring then i'll have my answer and will have won this debate also.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DudpoolXXX
LMAO! thats not how burden of proof works, genius.

we were never once given any reason to believe the 'adult' ivory kings varied in power. all that was said is that they were alot more powerful then the 'child' ivory kings. so if youre saying they did vary in power then the burden falls on you to prove it with something besides your troll opinions.

if you respond back with more dodging and question ignoring then i'll have my answer and will have won this debate also.

Jeez, can you read? The statement you are responding to was regarding whether those are the literal same Beyonders as the cosmic killers, not about varied power levels. Your altering the bar is telling.

It looks bad to threaten to declare victory when arguing a strawman.

Galan007
He's right, though.

The source material makes no mention of the 'adult units' having variable levels of power. So if indeed that is what you're proposing, then the burden of proof does fall on you.

You cannot ask someone to prove a negative.

TheHulkster
Where is the term "adult units" used? Did I miss that? I only recall the SW Beyonder being called a child unit and the ones fighting Avengers as "manifestations".

What I address above is whether the literal cosmic killers are the ones facing the Avengers. That, to me, is an unknown.

With that, if there are potentially hundreds or thousands of Beyonders or manifestations, how is there a notion of them all being equal the default position? Why send three against the cosmics when they could have sent 20?

So basically, with all things considered, we have an unknown, thus the cosmic killers should be judged on their own performance.

Senor Cage
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Darkseid is a pussy

But stronger than the Beyonders.

Galan007
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Where is the term "adult units" used? Did I miss that? I only recall the SW Beyonder being called a child unit and the ones fighting Avengers as "manifestations".

What I address above is whether the literal cosmic killers are the ones facing the Avengers. That, to me, is an unknown.

With that, if there are potentially hundreds or thousands of Beyonders or manifestations, how is there a notion of them all being equal the default position? Why send three against the cosmics when they could have sent 20?

So basically, with all things considered, we have an unknown, thus the cosmic killers should be judged on their own performance. The term "adult units" wasn't used on panel. It's just an easy way to differentiate between the two different types of Beyonders we know of. That being said, the only types of Beyonders that were categorized on panel were 'child units'(which is what the Beyonder from SWII was), and the more powerful regular/adult Beyonders featured in HickmanWars.


Bios from the HickmanWars Handbook:
https://i.imgur.com/RxEfL2c.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/K4RexBp.jpg


Here Pym makes the distinction in NA #30:
https://i.imgur.com/ikVi7Zd.jpg


Here Owen gives us final clarification in NA #33:
https://i.imgur.com/kwGAuTB.jpg


But as mentioned previously, that just tells us the adult units are far more powerful than the child units. Absolutely nothing from the source material states that the adult units from HickmanWars have varying levels of power. That is purely you own personal conjecture.

The adult Beyonders who fought the Avengers being referred to as "manifestations" certainly doesn't mean they were weaker by proxy, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that like it proves anything..?


So again, if your contention is that the adult units from HickmanWars did vary in power, then the burden falls entirely on you to prove it with some sort of explicit/incontrovertible evidence. You haven't done that yet, and I'm quite confident that you can't, so why are you still arguing the point?

Astner
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Where is the term "adult units" used? Did I miss that?
It was implied, not stated.

"I could tell you about the child unit from the Secret Wars. Visually modified to mimic what it perceived...it crunched a universe to make a toy...but these things crunch universes and are most certainly not playing a game."

It's clear from what's said that the non-child units are operating on a larger scale.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
What I address above is whether the literal cosmic killers are the ones facing the Avengers. That, to me, is an unknown.
According to the story they were Beyonders.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
With that, if there are potentially hundreds or thousands of Beyonders or manifestations, how is there a notion of them all being equal the default position?
Because there's no direct evidence, neither explicit nor implicit, to suggest that one is stronger than the other.

The problem is that you're trying to use your observation as evidence for your conjecture. The way it normally work is: you make an observation, you come up with an explanation for it, and then you find separate evidence to bolster your explanation.

The reason for this is because you may reach a hundred different conclusions through that very same observation, but unless there's evidence to back up those conclusions they're completely worthless.

Mr Master
Well, aside from the fact that one can crunch a universe, and tank multi-universe attacks,

but the other can't tank a planet scale explosion.

You think that's equality? no expression

SquallX

Mr Master

Galan007
Originally posted by SquallX
Better yet, not all Beyonders are created equal. They aren't all created equal.

Per on panel evidence there are the 'child' Beyonders, and the 'regular/adult' Beyonders -- TWO defined tiers of power. However, no explicit evidence from the source material states that the adult units themselves have varying levels of power. So far as can be proven, all of the adult units operate at around the same level... And we only saw the adult Beyonders during HickmanWars.

Those are the facts of the matter, with all speculation removed.

SquallX

Mr Master
^^ I agree.

Imo, It's unequivocal that the adult units manifest in varying levels of power per showings.

Forget about the "child unit" ... which clearly contradicts Pym's statement.

Only concentrating on Hickman's BeyonderS we end up the same.

We have 3 BeyonderS easily blocking/tanking blasts
from infinite Celestials, infinite InfinitieS and infinite EternitieS,

then you have Starbrand Beyonder that can't tank a planet scale boom.

Also, while one of the 3 BeyonderS was able to obliterate Celestials one shot

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/41258750_Cant_touch3.jpg


The Starbrand Beyonder can't kill Thor one shot:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/41258751_Cant_touch4.jpg


I'm not even gonna mention how universal embodiments were getting fried easily,
yet, Thor's puny hide can take the heat. Come on yall.

zopzop
Originally posted by Mr Master

Only concentrating on Hickman's BeyonderS we end up the same.

We have 3 BeyonderS easily blocking/tanking blasts
from infinite Celestials, infinite InfinitieS and infinite EternitieS,

then you have Starbrand Beyonder that can't tank a planet scale boom.

Also, while one of the 3 BeyonderS was able to obliterate Celestials one shot

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/41258750_Cant_touch3.jpg


The Starbrand Beyonder can't kill Thor one shot:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/41258751_Cant_touch4.jpg

Wait, Mr. M. I could have sworn the 3 Beyonders the trio of Avengers went up against were the Beyonders that just got through wrecking the entire Marvel cosmic hierarchy? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by Galan007
The term "adult units" wasn't used on panel. It's just an easy way to differentiate between the two different types of Beyonders we know of. That being said, the only types of Beyonders that were categorized on panel were 'child units'(which is what the Beyonder from SWII was), and the more powerful regular/adult Beyonders featured in HickmanWars.


Bios from the HickmanWars Handbook:
https://i.imgur.com/RxEfL2c.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/K4RexBp.jpg


Here Pym makes the distinction in NA #30:
https://i.imgur.com/ikVi7Zd.jpg


Here Owen gives us final clarification in NA #33:
https://i.imgur.com/kwGAuTB.jpg


But as mentioned previously, that just tells us the adult units are far more powerful than the child units. Absolutely nothing from the source material states that the adult units from HickmanWars have varying levels of power. That is purely you own personal conjecture.

The adult Beyonders who fought the Avengers being referred to as "manifestations" certainly doesn't mean they were weaker by proxy, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that like it proves anything..?


So again, if your contention is that the adult units from HickmanWars did vary in power, then the burden falls entirely on you to prove it with some sort of explicit/incontrovertible evidence. You haven't done that yet, and I'm quite confident that you can't, so why are you still arguing the point? Originally posted by Astner
It was implied, not stated.

"I could tell you about the child unit from the Secret Wars. Visually modified to mimic what it perceived...it crunched a universe to make a toy...but these things crunch universes and are most certainly not playing a game."

It's clear from what's said that the non-child units are operating on a larger scale.


According to the story they were Beyonders.


Because there's no direct evidence, neither explicit nor implicit, to suggest that one is stronger than the other.

The problem is that you're trying to use your observation as evidence for your conjecture. The way it normally work is: you make an observation, you come up with an explanation for it, and then you find separate evidence to bolster your explanation.

The reason for this is because you may reach a hundred different conclusions through that very same observation, but unless there's evidence to back up those conclusions they're completely worthless. beautiful guys. clapclap


then we have these monkeys who are still trying to say they were different ivory kings just because they got some low feats.theyre reaching so ****ing hard here. very sad when people cant just accept the truth lmao.

like you guys said- nothing says the adult ivory kings..... any of them.... had different powerlevels. the people still acting like the did are just lying at this point and ignoring the facts lol.

every character gets low feats. the ivory kings are not an exception.deal with it, monkeys.cool

but even if they did have different levels (which they dont) they were ALL still killed by a blast that was waaaaaaaaaaaaay below multiverse level in the end.,period.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by zopzop
Wait, Mr. M. I could have sworn the 3 Beyonders the trio of Avengers went up against were the Beyonders that just got through wrecking the entire Marvel cosmic hierarchy? Can anyone confirm or deny this? doesnt matter how they look visually because they can take any form they want. only the adults were shown in the issues and nothing concrete says they had variable powerlevels

the monkeys keep ignoring that. so its best to ignore any of their opinions here

Mr Master
Damn ... you need to hop of my cyber shlong.

Zop wasn't addressing you but you had to jam your repetitive drivel anyhow.

And lmao at labeling members "monkeys"

when you're the only one quoting other people's opinions as your argument.

Monkey see ... Monkey do ... laughing ... "like YOU guys said" laughing out loud

I mean ... I gotta admit, never seen a troll on this level.
Originally posted by zopzop

Wait, Mr. M. I could have sworn the 3 Beyonders the trio of Avengers went up against
were the Beyonders that just got through wrecking the entire Marvel cosmic hierarchy?

Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Hey there brother Zop, a true debater.

Actually, if you're into details .. they were not:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661449&pagenumber=4

But, if we believe they were the same, ...

then they were holding back vs Thor/Hyperion
(proven right up top when comparing damage assessment between hierarchy and Thor/Hyperion)
or ... they manifested in weaker shells vs Thor/Hyperion.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If none of that is satisfactory ... then it's both PIS & CIS like never seen before.
And for said reason should be dismissed as never happening.

Otherwise in vs forums they have to be presented as:

NA#30 Beyonders vs whoever ... or ... NA#32 Beyonders vs whoever.
Because the discrepancy in the showings is so wide it wouldn't allow us to have a sensible debate.

zopzop
Originally posted by Mr Master
Damn ... you need to hop of my cyber shlong.

Zop wasn't addressing you but you had to jam your repetitive drivel anyhow.

And lmao at labeling members "monkeys"

when you're the only one quoting other people's opinions as your argument.

Monkey see ... Monkey do ... laughing ... "like YOU guys said" laughing out loud

I mean ... I gotta admit, never seen a troll on this level.

Hey there brother Zop, a true debater.

Actually, if you're into details .. they were not:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661449&pagenumber=4

But, if we believe they were the same, ...

then they were holding back vs Thor/Hyperion
(proven right up top when comparing damage assessment between hierarchy and Thor/Hyperion)
or ... they manifested in weaker shells vs Thor/Hyperion.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If none of that is satisfactory ... then it's both PIS & CIS like never seen before.
And for said reason should be dismissed as never happening.

Otherwise in vs forums they have to be presented as:

NA#30 Beyonders vs whoever ... or ... NA#32 Beyonders vs whoever.
Because the discrepancy in the showings is so wide it wouldn't allow us to have a sensible debate.
Yup. IMHO, the best answer is what you already stated : It's PIS/CIS the likes of which we've never seen before. And knowing Hickman it makes perfect sense. God I hate that @$$hole.

DeadpoolXXX
pis/cis doesnt matter. the showings still happened and are still canon to ivory kings,.period

this is unreal to me. ivory kings get low feats and a few monkeys are willing to just pretend like they never happened, or pretend like there are two different sets of adult ivory kings even though no proof indicates that the adults vary in power at all.

doesnt work that way people. every character gets high feats and low feats. the ivory kings are not immune to that. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Damborgson
PIS does indeed matter lol.

Galan007
Objectively speaking...

The HickmanWars adult unit Beyonders have extremely high showings, and extremely low showings. Nothing in between... No middle ground... No real average to balance things out.

And because the source material does not explicitly indicate that the adult Beyonders who killed the cosmic hierarchy in NA #30 were intended to be more powerful than the adult Beyonders who had trouble with the Avengers in NA #32, who's to say what's PIS for them and what's not... Especially when they only appeared in like 2 or 3 issues total..?

I mean, given the evidence at hand, couldn't I just as easily argue that them killing the hierarchy was the PIS showing? I guess my question is why we would automatically assume the high end stuff is acceptable/valid, and just write the low end stuff off as PIS? In cases where characters have a scant few on-panel appearances, it seems like all of their showing need to count for *something*, imo. /shrug

Again, I'm just trying to be objective here, because the vast discrepancy between their feats makes it really hard gauge the HickmanWars adult Beyonders with any sort of accuracy.

srug

Damborgson
I think they get more slack for high feats depending on the intention of the characters.

If they have high showings, then it makes more sense given that they are meant to be terrible cosmic threats.

If they have low showings, then they may not make as much sense given that they weren't intended to be handled by the likes of regular heroes.

/shrug.

Galan007
It might not make sense, but it still happened nonetheless.

I'm not trying to invalidate the Beyonders as high-end cosmic threats. I'm just saying that they DO have low-end showings that need to be considered(at least to some extent) in debates involving them. Simply writing off their low showings as PIS and acting like they only have high-end stuff under their belts isn't a luxury afforded to any other character(s) here, and I do agree that the Beyonders shouldn't be an exception in that regard... Especially given their extremely limited number of appearances(all of which were under the same writer, mind you.)

Damborgson
And I wasnt suggesting you were.

Just answering why their low showings aren't taken as seriously as their high showings are.

They are confusing characters to deal with.

Galan007
thumb up

TheHulkster
Originally posted by abhilegend
Rest my case on what?


https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg

"I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse . Falling over everything ."

Isn't that Orion falling?

Galan007
No, it's Darkseid.

CatL18
True Darkseid is platonic concept who emanate from the world of GOD.
Can Ivory Kings destroy even platonic concept?

Astner
Originally posted by CatL18
Can Ivory Kings destroy even platonic concept?
They killed a bunch of Abstracts, yes.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.