Annihilators vs Avengers [Hickman]

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Philosophía
https://cmro.travis-starnes.com/images/groups/annihilators.jpg

Quasar
BRB
Gladiator
SS
Ronan

vs

https://i.imgur.com/Twdg7GT.png
http://b2b.upperdeck.com/ArticleImages/VsSystem/2008/may/Illuminati01.gif
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111188754/4744292-7596831418-wolve.jpg


Thor
Hulk
Hyperion
Carol
Cap
Wolverine
Iron Man

Who wins?

DeadpoolXXX
annihilators imo.

greater versatility.

MrMind
annihilators as well

zopzop
BRB will stalemate Thor for a while. Hulk has always had a bad day vs Surfer. Gladiator will give Hyperion a good fight. Quasar will bubble up the rest and call it a day (he's already done it against Binary and she couldn't break out). Ronan will help out the other three as he sees fit.

Annihilators win.

leonidas
it's close but assuming classic thor i think i'd actually take the avengers for a slight majority. it would depend on who squared off, but i think the avengers have the advantage in more match ups, but like i said, it's very close.

Demon of Heaven
Yea A war squad should have this

Philosophía
Originally posted by leonidas
it's close but assuming classic thor i think i'd actually take the avengers for a slight majority. it would depend on who squared off, but i think the avengers have the advantage in more match ups, but like i said, it's very close. I'm leaning towards this, too. I think out of all combinations of fights, unless it's straight up Thor vs BRB , most of the time it would be a bad day for the Annihilators. If Hulk goes first for Ronan, for example, that'd quickly turn into only 4 Annihilators. Cap's shield, would be very useful for...anybody on his team. Give it to Hyperion, and he'd run a train through Gladiator and whatnot. Wolverine has some good one-shot potential https://i.imgur.com/tzprmLv.jpg] etc. He can almost be used as a battle spear, lol.

DarkSaint85
thumb up

Ronan uses his Universal Weapon, and uses Wolverine like a battle spear.

Philosophía
Carol shoves her hand up Wolverine's ass and uses him as a glove.

zopzop

StiltmanFTW
Annihilators get annihilated.

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
How do you figure? Quasar can one shot one of their most powerful members (Binary) and bubble up Wolverine/Iron Man/Cap and BFR them to the Quantum Zone if he wanted to (not like they gonna break out one of his bubbles anyway).
https://i.postimg.cc/gn52L7wg/4990878-quasar-33-017.jpg You mean Thor uses Mjolnir to drain Quasar https://imgur.com/a/zk0lu], while Wolverine slices his head off? Or Hyperion Gladiator's him? https://imgur.com/a/cnfEsOb]

As I said, there's match-ups and match-ups. And 'who I want to win' can be reverse-engineered into whomever you want to fight, and do well against, but that's not the point, since there's a scenario for everything. The idea is to see what happens in most of these permutations.

Stoic
I vote firmly in favor of the Avengers squad. Thor can take the Surfer's measure, Gladiator is evenly matched by Hyperion, and the Hulk could likely out muscle Bill, because he tends to slug it out. After that there is a large fall off when it comes to Ronan,and Wolverine, but Carol, and Tony should be able to defeat Quasar.

zopzop

Stoic
Originally posted by zopzop
Philo, Annihilus was operating on a whole other level during that arc. Thor is in no way replicating that feat or even coming close to it.

I think that you're giving Quasar too much credit. He was certainly strong against certain characters, but he was also weak against certain characters.

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
Philo, Annihilus was operating on a whole other level during that arc. Thor is in no way replicating that feat or even coming close to it.

Well you're free to find any instance, of any form of energy, that Thor has ever failed to absorb.

Including Phoenix force, glory and God bomb energy.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CostlyUnpleasantAmericanalligator-small.gif

Damborgson
As for the fight though...

Hulk and Thor need to be contained. Meaning losing Gladiator and Beta Ray to hold them off.

That leaves Hyperion as the big gun, who would beat either Quasar or Ronan but probably go down to Surfer.

Ronan and Carol would be a good fight, but Ronan has already humiliated her if memory serves. But with Iron Man helping her...that just became a fair fight.

It's tough to say. Cap could tip the scales drastically by handing his shield to someone, and if Wolverine can help tip the scales of a single fight, it would be very hard to overcome that gap.

The annihilators would be best served removing some Avengers from the field. So I think the Avengers might edge this one out.

MrMind
I don't see hyperion beating quasar at all

no one can take forum surfer 1 on 1, not even Thor

Hulk can easily be bfred

anyone but Ronan on team 1 can fight hyperion or Thor

3 of the A team operate on Hype, Thor and Hulk, one operates Iron Man and Carol, and the last one kills non factors cap and wolverine, they will be taken out immediately

Damborgson
Originally posted by MrMind
no one can take forum surfer 1 on 1, not even Thor


If you're ever interested in BZ'ing that, that would be a really fun one thumb up

MrMind
Originally posted by Damborgson
If you're ever interested in BZ'ing that, that would be a really fun one thumb up

wish I could, got no time

coming back to the US in 3 days, then gotta find a job, a home, a car

probably be free during August, If you want to do it then. I'm down

Bentley
The Annihilators are a bunch of second stringers, jobbers and disappointments. They never achieved together even half of what a selected few of them have done by themselves. The suck and are the epitome of defeat.

Avengers win.

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
Philo, Annihilus was operating on a whole other level during that arc. Thor is in no way replicating that feat or even coming close to it. Annihilus doesn't beat Mjolnir in an energy absorption contest...let's be honest here. But that wasn't my point -- it was to show that different match-ups can go different way. I'm not saying that 100% of the time that's how the fight would go.

Originally posted by MrMind
no one can take forum surfer 1 on 1, not even Thor
Originally posted by Damborgson
If you're ever interested in BZ'ing that, that would be a really fun one thumb up

Mr Mind...I suggest you don't take this, lol.

Besides the obvious 'Mjolnir neutralizes him completely', if you think Hal was drainable...you haven't seen Surfer.

MrMind
I wanna do this bz in August, hopefully I'd be settle down by then. Damborg I will pm you in August.

Yes I would, Thor's speed will be his downfall. The thing Surfer needs to overcome is his shabby encounter against Thor in comics but I'll find a way

Surfer vs Worthy Thor, full capacity

Bentley
The lightspeed pie feat outweights most of Surfer's showings

Philosophía
Imo, you're going to have a bad time trying to argue for Surfer's speed. But....good luck smile

MrMind
Originally posted by Bentley
The lightspeed pie feat outweights most of Surfer's showings

Pure PIS, Balder would bend over Odin and Thor at the same time

Damborgson
Originally posted by MrMind

Yes I would, Thor's speed will be his downfall.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PitifulUnrulyFulmar-size_restricted.gif


August it is my friend thumb up

zopzop

leonidas
check out thor 437 to see how masterson did against quasar. full out thor would decimate him. the bands also don't deal well (or consistently) vs magic. quasar had the one bubble showing that you're relying on. he is not in thor's class--not a serious thor.

and thor/ss bz would be fun to see....

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
During that arc, Annihilus sure as hell did beat out anything Mjolnir has done. He drained Marvel's premier energy manipulator. You do realize this is circular logic, no?

You're defending Annihilus draining Quasar, by saying that Annihilus drained Quasar as a feat.

Originally posted by zopzop
I mean Quasar has gone up against Galactus/a Rogue Watcher/Thanos with the IG and used the Quantum Bands to redirect their attacks. What does using a shield against Galactus have to do with Thor draining him? What does using a shield to deflect Thanos w/IG's random blast, also? Doom has taken a blast, too. As have other characters. I don't understand what you're arguing here, exactly, that Quasar is powerful, and makes good constructs? Well, sure. But we're talking about draining.

Watchers are jobbers, Rulk beat one. Thor took the totality of Chaos King's hit, turned it back on him, and killed him. But -- just to make sure -- your position, surely, is not that Quasar is a better energy absorber than Mjolnir?

Because if you want to proceed that way -- I have plenty of scans of Quasar's energy absorption, too. Not so flattering ones. Are you sure you want everybody to see them?

zopzop

abhilegend
Yeah, Quasar just looks good in respect threads. Otherwise he gets his ass kicked 90% of times in his own book.

DarkSaint85
Aquarian has taken Quasar out thumb up

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
When did Thor beat CK or even redirct his blast? Scans? And you are using Loebforce Rulk as an example? He was doing ridiculous sh|t like laughing off Dormammu in the Dark Dimension, KOing Grandmaster, and destroying Surfer and crew. Show me non Loeb Force Rulk doing anything impressive. I typed fast - I meant Chaos King Glory - the one with the power of a whole patheon of 10,000 gods. Loeb Force Rulk was on the ropes in the rematch against Thor and got beaten by Green Scar and was treated like a bug by Galactus. But that's just a feat and just a character that's humiliated the Watcher .

My question, on the other hand, is on your whole argument - do you think that Quasar is a better energy absorber than Mjolnir? Do you think Annihilus is a better energy absorber than Mjolnir?

AlbertoJohnAvil
Annihilators stomps. complete mismatch

zopzop

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
Glory showed up in ONE issue and is COMPLETELY featless. Even still, Thor needed a 'prayer' amp to take it out. The prayer has nothing to do with Mjolnir's energy absorption.

Glory is specifically the embodiment of an entire pantheon of Gods -- in case it's not clear, he's the guy holding planets/moons and crushing them like grapes https://imgur.com/Iok1gzm], operating on an abstract level to the point that Thor's mind interprets its form https://imgur.com/x09VQnf], capable of casually attacking at all levels https://imgur.com/ng29TJg] and the totality of its power tears reality itself https://i.imgur.com/Ri5lQIN.jpg]

Featless? Do you want this to go both ways, or do you prefer to be selective, about what you answer and what you present? What feats does the Watcher Quasar went up against have?

I'll wait.

Originally posted by zopzop
Didn't Loebforce Rulk go up against OF Thor? I could have sworn he still had a portion of it when he faced off vs Rulk. And what's wrong with the Galactus showing? A PISSED off Galactus out to kill blasts Rulk and Loebforce Rulk lives. Loebforce Rulk had nothing but insane showings. Post Loebforce, Rulk is a joke and that's not my opinion, it's backed up with on panel showings. The point of Galactus is that you're behaving like Rulk is some sort of cosmic god - thus the G example to show that he is not - and also the Green Scar/Thor example to show that he is not even above them, either.

Tell me, is Lunatik also a cosmic god?
https://imgur.com/a/LgLc1Ig

Originally posted by zopzop
And yes, I believe the Q-bands > Mjolnir in terms of energy manipulation. See Maelstrom as proof. I didn't ask you about energy manipulation, I asked you about energy absorption. Surfer is a better energy manipulator than Thor, but a weaker energy absorber.

If you think that Quasar is a better energy absorber then - by all means - let us begin, and I shall know to fetch the scans.

zopzop

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
I stand by my featless comment. Glory appeared for one issue and only went up against Thor. In the end, it couldn't even beat a High Herald (yes I'm aware of the prayer amp saving him). And I'm not impressed with the flowery language describing Glory or it's supposed power (look at Masterson Thor vs Dargo, Jean vs Prof X, Aaron the Rogue vs Uatu, etc...).

I also love how you focused on the Watcher only and ignored Quasar deflecting attacks from Thanos with the IG and Galactus. Doom went up against a crippled IG (Thanos was only using the PG). The Q-bands were up against the whole thing. And regarding the Watcher, Stranger had to step in to finally end the fight.

As to the Watcher/Lunatik example was the Watcher even trying to fight back (like the Rogue vs Quasar)? He could have been faking it like the Watcher during the Starblast story line. The Watcher was 'captured' and 'beaten' by the Starblasters (or whatever that villain group's name was) but then the narrator admitted that he could up and leave any time he felt like but he WANTED to be there to watch what was unfolding.

The Quantum Bands are THE energy manipulating/absorbing artifacts in Marvel. Maelstrom with full knowledge on how to use them went up against Thanos with the full IG and laughed off a blast to his face. I focused on Watcher, because it was the only example you gave that involves energy draining -- which is the topic we're discussing. You asked for feats by Glory - I gave you - I asked, in reciprocity, feats for the Watcher Quasar went up against - you gave me nothing. Now you're using circular logic again - "Thor beat Glory, but Glory can't impressive, because Thor beat her" .

Deflecting attacks has literally nothing to do with energy absorption - which is what Annihilus did to Quasar - and what Thor could do to him, too. How does this 'how many apples equal a chair' go in your head? Annihilus energy absorption is above Thanos w/IG because...Quasar deflected a random blast? Galactus was really lucky in Annihilation that Annihilus didn't suddenly turn his CCR against him, since Annihilus > Quasar > Thanos w/IG > Galactus.

....

It's like you asking me for Mjolnir's absorption feats, and me going on random tangents "OH look here's Thor summoning the storm, why don't you look at it?!". Because that's not what the subject of the discussion is about.

Now you're asking me to prove a negative? That Watcher is not 'faking it' against Lunatik? That he's not faking it against Rulk? Should I put the burden of proof on you that the Watcher Quasar went up against wasn't playing 6D underwater chess and let Quasar think he was draining his power? This is not how any of this works.

Zop, do I really have to go "let me google that for you" to see the difference between energy absorption, energy manipulation, energy projection, constructs etc. ? I mean, seriously? When you go to the grocery store, and you ask for 10 apples, and the salesman puts 2 kg of bacon, do you go "eh, it's all food, I'll take it"?

This is so weird.

leonidas
Originally posted by zopzop
Leo, reread that issue. Masterson Thor did nothing to Quasar. His own Q-Bands turned against him because he was mind controlled.


huh? the bands did have a fail-safe but he admitted the magic bolt would have done the same thing to him, while he admits the bands are useless against magic--that was shown a couple times in the series. and that was a useless masterson. if REAL thor, REALLY fought, quasar would get his arse wrecked, in a hurry. masterson also crushed a bubble without much trouble and the whole time he was worried about hurting quasar. i love quasar, but he's a full tier below someone like thor.

Philosophía
Originally posted by leonidas
huh? the bands did have a fail-safe but he admitted the magic bolt would have done the same thing to him, while he admits the bands are useless against magic--that was shown a couple times in the series. *cough*
https://i.imgur.com/7wuFmjP.jpg

*another cough*
https://i.imgur.com/ohk61Or.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fmK2jAl.jpg

*another cough*
https://i.imgur.com/YEUFCBM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iSD2qeH.jpg

something must be really stuck in my throat...
https://i.imgur.com/EOVvOf3.jpg

*drinks some water*

Ok..

*cough*
https://imgur.com/a/1T3Myo4

Goddammit..
https://i.imgur.com/S8NjM4l.jpg

Somehow I'm in the position to argue for Thor...again.

leonidas
laughing out loud

yeah, a serious thor destroys quasar. it's...not close. /shrug

gauntlet o doom
Originally posted by leonidas
i love quasar, but he's a full tier below someone like thor.

I don't know about "a full tier below Thor", if it's strictly energy absorption, yes an argument could be made because the Q-bands are only effective against energies of the electromagnetic spectrum. However, just because the Q-bands have that specific limitation doesn't mean he's completely helpless against anyone like Thor. Classic Hal, being vulnerable to yellow, isn't a full tier below Sinestro. There's still quite a few avenues open to Quasar for dealing with someone like Thor.

zopzop

gauntlet o doom
Originally posted by zopzop
The whole "I can only manipulate energies in the EM Spectrum" rule has been broken many times.

1) Jack of Hearts and his Zero Fluid energies.
2) Draining Rachel with the PF
3) Draining power from the Annihilators (which included Storm Breaker and psionic energy from Gladiator) to boost his shield
4) When he was draining power from Ego the living planet
5) Draining Warlock

Those are just a few that I remember off hand.

I'm no expert on this but I think what Gruenwald refers to as the EM spectrum is everything that isn't magic. So everything above, besides Stormbreaker, would fall in that category.

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