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This is Avengers Loki w/ Mind Stone staff.

Magneto from Apocalypse w/amp.

Who wins?

What's the starting distance and environment?

Magneto shoves the staff up his ass without moving from the starting point.

This depends largely on whether Magneto can manipulate the metal Loki has on him. If he can, this is a stomp for him. If he can't, Loki might very well be able to just blast him with the staff before Magneto can throw something big enough at him to seriously hurt him.

Loki can magically call off his armor (and seemingly his knives) so I doubt Magneto can use those against him. He may be able to control the staff.

I'm a bit unsure of this match to be honest. Magneto has more raw power and a lot of ammunition in a junk yard but we don't know how well he'll do against Loki's illusions. It will also be hard for Magneto to hit Loki with something strong enough to take him out whereas one good shot from Loki can kill Magneto.

Handling illusions would also probably hedge on the metal quantity and whether Magneto can manipulate it, as he has on multiple occasions shown the ability to detect metal without needing to see it. And, obviously, illusions won't have any real metal on them, so that would allow him to spot the fakes, so to speak.

Also, problem for Loki is if Mags can use the staff and Loki removes his armor, knives etc. his offensive output drops drastically. Especially when his opponent can fly to keep his distance.

However, if BFR is on the table, Magneto can just wrap some metal around Loki and throw him like a mile away, similar to what he did to Logan in DoFP.

Erik in a massive stomp

Magneto has had shields since Apocalypse. So yeah, going with him decisively.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Magneto has had shields since Apocalypse. So yeah, going with him decisively.

IIRC, he can only enact those shields with a lot of prep.

Originally posted by FrothByte
IIRC, he can only enact those shields with a lot of prep.


Seems like it, given he never used them in DP.

That said, unless this goes to H2H, I dont see Loki competing. The staff will go flying into Magnetos hand, and Loki will have to be rid of any metal weapons.

Eric can also control the Earth post Apocalypse.

The others like Storm kept their amps and mutations like her white hair. Why would Magneto lose his?

And, to be fair, he doesn't generally need to display that level of power in 99% of scenarios. Tearing buildings half a planet away apart isn't going to help you much when your opponent is right in front of you.

Plus, even old-ass Magneto from the original timeline could lift the Golden Gate Bridge, which is nearly 900,000 tons IIRC.

Originally posted by KingD19
The others like Storm kept their amps and mutations like her white hair. Why would Magneto lose his?

I forget her amp. Please elaborate on the nature of her abilities, both post and pre Apoc aside from cosmetic changes.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
I forget her amp. Please elaborate on the nature of her abilities, both post and pre Apoc aside from cosmetic changes.


She learned to fly and fire spontaneous lightning from her hands. Something Adult Storm could not do until X3.

Also I dont think Apoc amped/transformed Eric. Just go to him to unleash his own full potential. Much like Charles did for him in First Class.

Without a doubt Magneto can control all the metal on Loki (even the staff).

But this is a quick draw fight. How fast is Mags at controlling metal? I know he can stop bullets the moment they leave the barrel. That has to count for something. Otherwise anyone with a gun and is a fast shot can beat Magneto.

Mags wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
Otherwise anyone with a gun and is a fast shot can beat Magneto.

Originally posted by FrothByte
IIRC, he can only enact those shields with a lot of prep.

He was using them actively during the train sequence to prevent himself from being killed when the train crashed and from rubble hitting hkn

Apoc never amped him though. He taught him more about his own powers.

Based on what? He amped everyone else.

We can't know for sure.

The "amping/teaching" scene is quite similar to this scene from First Class:

oHksDAB9vOo

So, this supports Darth Thor's stance. A lot.

Why wouldn't he amp him?

Originally posted by Surtur
Why wouldn't he amp him?

Erik is already one of the most powerful mutants on the planet. He just needed a "nudge".

Apoc never really needed to make physical contact or perform any rituals/gestures/whatever before amping someone --- so you may be very well right.

But from what we've seen in First Class, there are easier ways to unlock Mags' potential than messing with his body. And it seemed that was what Apoc did.

So does Apoc unlock potential or does he amplify a mutants powers beyond what they would normally be capable of?

If people wanna say what he was truly doing was merely unlocking potential that is fine, but it is weird if they wanna say he amped everyone else but Magneto.

In the end, all that matters is that he seemed to be at his standard power levels in DP.

Unless there's something I missed:

Originally posted by carthage
He was using them actively during the train sequence to prevent himself from being killed when the train crashed and from rubble hitting hkn

Need to rewatch that scene.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Quoting part of someone's post, is trolling.
Did you actually understand what I was trying to say?

Originally posted by Surtur
Based on what? He amped everyone else.

Apocalypse himself makes a pretty clear distinction with the various characters. For example, he specifically refers to Magneto not knowing his "own strength" during the Auschwitz scene, whereas with people like Xavier, he explicitly states that he'd amplify them to do what he needed, "you don't need Cerebro to amplify your powers. You have me." But hey, guess you can ignore what he says if you want.

Originally posted by h1a8
Quoting part of someone's post, is trolling.
Did you actually understand what I was trying to say?


No its not. I quoted the relevant part which I thought was bonkers and asnine conclusion.

This is why trolls shouldnt lecture on trolling, because they (you) cannot tell the difference.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Apocalypse himself makes a pretty clear distinction with the various characters. For example, he specifically refers to Magneto not knowing his "own strength" during the Auschwitz scene, whereas with people like Xavier, he explicitly states that he'd amplify them to do what he needed, "you don't need Cerebro to amplify your powers. You have me." But hey, guess you can ignore what he says if you want.

I'm not ignoring what he says, I just don't think his comments about Magneto mean he wasn't amping him. I recognize that he was also saying he hasn't reached his full power yet.

It makes no sense to me...if you saw a mutant and you say he hadn't tapped his full power, but you *also* have the ability to amplify powers, wouldn't you do both? Help him reach his peak, and then go beyond? I dunno maybe he didn't wanna make him too powerful.

^ Well:

1) We saw Magneto unleash his power and there was no indication of Apoc amping Magneto.

2) Surely Apoc would have removed/stopped the amp when Magneto turned on him, at which point Eric still had his shields.

3) Even if he was amped, Storm kept hers, so no reason to think Eric lost his if not specifically stated.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not ignoring what he says, I just don't think his comments about Magneto mean he wasn't amping him. I recognize that he was also saying he hasn't reached his full power yet.

It makes no sense to me...if you saw a mutant and you say he hadn't tapped his full power, but you *also* have the ability to amplify powers, wouldn't you do both? Help him reach his peak, and then go beyond? I dunno maybe he didn't wanna make him too powerful.

It could be exactly that. Magneto can already potentially muck up the entire planet with enough time. Perhaps any further and he would have posed a direct threat to Apocalypse. And that guy didn't seem like the type who wanted rivals around, given the whole god-complex.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Well:

1) We saw Magneto unleash his power and there was no indication of Apoc amping Magneto.

2) Surely Apoc would have removed/stopped the amp when Magneto turned on him, at which point Eric still had his shields.

3) Even if he was amped, Storm kept hers, so no reason to think Eric lost his if not specifically stated.

It was well-established how emotions play a huge part in Mags' control over his powers. First Class. Posted the video already.

The "amp" happened at the remains of Auschwitz camp.

What do you think about what carthage said? You caught that or not?

Why are you all discussing whether Fassbender kept the amp or not? He doesn't need it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It was well-established how emotions play a huge part in Mags' control over his powers. First Class. Posted the video already.

The "amp" happened at the remains of Auschwitz camp.




Thats possible. But that means it can be repeated under the right circumstances.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

What do you think about what carthage said? You caught that or not?


Seen it twice but never saw that. I doubt he can raise shields without prep.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Thats possible. But that means it can be repeated under the right circumstances.

I was trying to say that there is more evidence supporting your stance than vice versa.

Also, it sure helps how Magneto lost his woman and daughter before Apoc began tutoring him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Seen it twice but never saw that. I doubt he can raise shields without prep.

I just think it defies imagination to think a dude who can amp powers just wouldn't amp the powers of a follower.

I'm sure Storm hadn't tapped her true potential either.

Again, Magneto had a significant power increase in the past just by listening to Xavier.

Doesn't matter if he was amped or not --- what matters is: 1) he hasn't displayed any of his new abilities in DP, 2) even if he was amped, the amp itself wouldn't just fade away (as Storm retained her abilities).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I was trying to say that there is more evidence supporting your stance than vice versa.

Also, it sure helps how Magneto lost his woman and daughter before Apoc began tutoring him.




Ah soz misunderstood.

Lmao, people actually went and saw Dark Phoenix?

Sorry to hear that.

^ It's not as bad as it's being made out to be.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Again, Magneto had a significant power increase in the past just by listening to Xavier.

Doesn't matter if he was amped or not --- what matters is: 1) he hasn't displayed any of his new abilities in DP, 2) even if he was amped, the amp itself wouldn't just fade away (as Storm retained her abilities).

Actually, there is a way we could figure out real quick if he was amped. I haven't seen Dark Phoenix yet, but if he wasn't ever amped in the movie there is zero reason for him to not use his forcefield thing again.

So, did he use it in the latest film?

EDIT: Also, I'd disagree that he had a power increase just via listening to Xavier. Sure he gave the dude some pep talks, but we know the guy was training at the X-Mansion with the others as well. In fact the one pep talk scene I recall...Magneto fails to do what Xavier had asked him to do.

I actually always took it more that Xaviers talks gave him more confidence and allowed himself to make great strides via training.

Originally posted by Surtur
Actually, there is a way we could figure out real quick if he was amped. I haven't seen Dark Phoenix yet, but if he wasn't ever amped in the movie there is zero reason for him to not use his forcefield thing again.




Not really. I mean These were never the most consistent movies to begin with.

Also we never saw him raise his shields instantaneously even in Apocalypse, so it probably takes some time for him to do that.

My point is we never saw Apocalypse using his own power to amp him, and even if he did, Storm never lost her amp, so theres no reason to believe Eric completely lost his. I mean Why would he? Bear in mind He still had the amp when he was fighting Apoc himself.

I'm not arguing he lost an amp, just that it is insane to think Apoc wouldn't amp him if he could(hidden super secret potential or not).

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not arguing he lost an amp, just that it is insane to think Apoc wouldn't amp him if he could(hidden super secret potential or not).


Ah who knows.

Also what makes you say Storm never lost her amp?

Originally posted by Surtur
Also what makes you say Storm never lost her amp?


She displays all the same abilities in DP that she did in Apocalypse.

Abilities that Adult Storm never had until X3.

But honestly these films are not consistent enough to decisively conclude one way or the other, so best assumption (IMO) is that they kept it unless stated otherwise (or contradicted in a major way).

Yeah, considering that a timeline change in the Fox verse can apparently result in this:

https://captainzach616.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/bolivar-trask.jpg

I wouldn't put too much stock in continuity between films.

Also, this lol:

i5a6EIEjtRI

Seems like some people got a better deal than others. One guy became a dwarf while the others lost 30+ years in appearance.

Yeah they aren't consistent. It's why I'm not too broken up over this particular X-Men series ending.

Becomes even more broken if you add in The Gifted, which was supposed to be in the same continuity as the films. They have Quicksilver as Magneto's child as well as Polaris, which obviously makes them half siblings, except the two of them were literally born like 50 years apart, based on the info we are given in the films and show, seeing as she is in her mid- to late 20s during modern times.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Seems like some people got a better deal than others. One guy became a dwarf while the others lost 30+ years in appearance.


Oh I would just pretend thats McAvoy and Fassbender as they were not even cast yet. Honestly thats a small inconsistency and I can forgive that they wouldnt know they would cast younger versions Of the characters later.

But something like Sabretooth in Origins Wolverine was just an unforgivable inconsistency. I mean youre just gonna ignore the movie that started off your franchise?

Dont get me wrong, Liev Schrieber was great, but Just make him a different damn mutant jeez.

Origins Sabretooth is much closer to the character than X1 ever was.

The Wolverine Origins movie should have been about him and Sabretooth fighting through various wars over the years.

That would have been great instead of just the quick pieces that showed them going through different wars as a prelude.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh I would just pretend thats McAvoy and Fassbender as they were not even cast yet. Honestly thats a small inconsistency and I can forgive that they wouldnt know they would cast younger versions Of the characters later.

I am personally going to have to disagree here. They actively chose to jump roughly a decade with every film and then make absolutely no effort to visibly age up their characters at any point. I mean Magneto is supposed to be, like, mid 60s by the time of the latest Dark Phoenix movie, based on the amount of time they have jumped since First Class. They created this inconsistency through laziness and poor planning.

Originally posted by KingD19
That would have been great instead of just the quick pieces that showed them going through different wars as a prelude.

The only other good thing Wolverine Origins did was put out a great video game.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am personally going to have to disagree here. They actively chose to jump roughly a decade with every film and then make absolutely no effort to visibly age up their characters at any point. I mean Magneto is supposed to be, like, mid 60s by the time of the latest Dark Phoenix movie, based on the amount of time they have jumped since First Class. They created this inconsistency through laziness and poor planning.

Holy shit I never thought about that. The first scene from First Class is from 1944 and Magneto looks about 14. So as of the latest film he is 62 played by a guy who is 42. Hell Ian McKellan is closer to Magnetos true age than Fassbender is.

I don't see why they needed to make such large jumps forward in time. First Class was set in 1962. They could have set the following two films in the late 1960s and set this final film in the mid 1970s.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am personally going to have to disagree here. They actively chose to jump roughly a decade with every film and then make absolutely no effort to visibly age up their characters at any point. I mean Magneto is supposed to be, like, mid 60s by the time of the latest Dark Phoenix movie, based on the amount of time they have jumped since First Class. They created this inconsistency through laziness and poor planning.


Oh the not aging them was lazy AF, and ive been complaining about that since DOFP (at the end Cyclops and Jean are apparently in their 50s now without even a tint of grey hair).

Fassbender even said in a interview that he thought Apocalypse was a good time to grey his hair, but Fox didnt care.

But even if they aged them the inconsistency of the flashback in X3 would still be there, which is all im saying. They couldnt have known who would be playing their younger selves and what time period it should switch.


Originally posted by Surtur
Holy shit I never thought about that. The first scene from First Class is from 1944 and Magneto looks about 14. So as of the latest film he is 62 played by a guy who is 42. Hell Ian McKellan is closer to Magnetos true age than Fassbender is.

I don't see why they needed to make such large jumps forward in time. First Class was set in 1962. They could have set the following two films in the late 1960s and set this final film in the mid 1970s.


Yep. They really didnt care. All I can think is they wanted to introduce Jean and Cyclops. But no excuse for taking it beyond the early 80s.

With the MCU now taking so much care with their canon, its really no surprise audiences didnt really care to catch the last one in this series.

Originally posted by Surtur
In fact the one pep talk scene I recall...Magneto fails to do what Xavier had asked him to do.

Posted the video already. You failed to watch it.

Mags failed at first, then succeeded moments later That's when the whole emotional aspect of his powers is being explored, y'know. Something that perfectly matches the XMA scenes.

If you don't watch this stuff and can't even last through YT clips, you should stay away from KMC, Surt.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Posted the video already. You failed to watch it.

Mags failed at first, then succeeded moments later That's when the whole emotional aspect of his powers is being explored, y'know. Something that perfectly matches the XMA scenes.

If you don't watch this stuff and can't even last through YT clips, you should stay away from KMC, Surt.

Lol I admit I didn't watch it, I figured I remembered accurately. My bad

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh the not aging them was lazy AF, and ive been complaining about that since DOFP (at the end Cyclops and Jean are apparently in their 50s now without even a tint of grey hair).

Fassbender even said in a interview that he thought Apocalypse was a good time to grey his hair, but Fox didnt care.

But even if they aged them the inconsistency of the flashback in X3 would still be there, which is all im saying. They couldnt have known who would be playing their younger selves and what time period it should switch.

I am not referring to the different actors though. I am specifically referring to the clusterphuck regarding the ages. I mean they even had a rough reference to where they needed to end up, age-wise, thanks to having done Last Stand, and still screwed it up badly. Because technology has more than come along nowadays that it is doable. Just look at Cap at the end of Endgame.

^ Yeah ive already said not aging them was terrible and became more and more ridiculous with each film.

Like I said ive been complaining about that since DOFP.

All im saying is I can forgive ignoring how they look in that one scene in Last Stand after before recast (I figure we are just supposed to imagine thats McAvoy and Fassbender somewhere between DOFP and Apocalypse). But like you I dont forgive not aging them at all.

CGI on the main characters would have been very costly, and not sure Cap type make up would fit either. But theres absolutely no excuse not to give Eric grey hair (and future Cyclops in his 50s). Like that would hardly have even been an inconvenience.

Oh and Lucas Till (Havok) should have been left out of DOFP then recast for Apoc. Because you just cant look the same as a 16 year old and a 36 year old. Again no effort, just lazy with the time jumps.

If youre not going to do time jumps properly, then dont do them at all.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah ive already said not aging them was terrible and became more and more ridiculous with each film.

Like I said ive been complaining about that since DOFP.

All im saying is I can forgive ignoring how they look in that one scene in Last Stand after before recast (I figure we are just supposed to imagine thats McAvoy and Fassbender somewhere between DOFP and Apocalypse). But like you I dont forgive not aging them at all.

CGI on the main characters would have been very costly, and not sure Cap type make up would fit either. But theres absolutely no excuse not to give Eric grey hair (and future Cyclops in his 50s). Like that would hardly have even been an inconvenience.

Oh and Lucas Till (Havok) should have been left out of DOFP then recast for Apoc. Because you just cant look the same as a 16 year old and a 36 year old. Again no effort, just lazy with the time jumps.

If youre not going to do time jumps properly, then dont do them at all.

Well, yeah, I didn't mean they had to go full-on old-man with both. After all, Endgame Steve would have been in, like, his late 90s, if not past 100. More the point that makeup and VFX techniques have improved more than enough to achieve the desired effect. An example I often cite is Travis Fimmel as Ragnar in Vikings. They made a guy in his 30s legitimately look like he was pushing 60+. And all that was done with just practical makeup effects.

lol Imagine they hadn't killed off Havok and he rocked up in Dark Phoenix as a 50-year-old Eddie Vedder wannabe.

Huh, I got curious and checked. Cap would actually have been something like 103 at the end of Endgame, seeing as he was born in 1918, and they had the 5-year jump after IW. Or, technically, even older, if we also add the years between waking up at the end of TFA and going back in Endgame.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Huh, I got curious and checked. Cap would actually have been something like 103 at the end of Endgame, seeing as he was born in 1918, and they had the 5-year jump after IW. Or, technically, even older, if we also add the years between waking up at the end of TFA and going back in Endgame.

I presume his SS serum had something to do with helping him stay spry.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

lol Imagine they hadn't killed off Havok and he rocked up in Dark Phoenix as a 50-year-old Eddie Vedder wannabe.


lol thankfully they killed him.

You know I actually kinda liked him. Instead of time jumping 20-30years to use Cyclops and Jean, they should have just focused on the team they already established in First Class. Plus Quicksilver.

Yeah, people talk about Cyclops being wasted in these movies, but Havok got an even more raw deal IMO. In three films, the most notable things he did was accidentally cause the deaths of Darwin and himself.

Seriously, when a character's most notable moment is blowing themselves up, you know someone screwed the pooch with them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I presume his SS serum had something to do with helping him stay spry.

I wonder how much of his stats he retains at that age. It would be pretty funny if a mugger tried to jump old Steve, thinking he's an easy target, only to get smacked down by a centenarian.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol I admit I didn't watch it, I figured I remembered accurately. My bad Cringe worthy poster.