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- Fight takes place in an old warehouse.
- Opponents start on different ends.
- Everyone is wearing street clothes. No other tech or gear.
- Everyone has a pair of pistols, and they are all running Hershel's infinite ammo mod, so assume that won't be an issue.

And for those who might not remember, Clint has used a gun onscreen before, at the beginning of The Avengers when Loki arrives. IIRC, he might even actually be the one who shoots Loki in the face.

So, who wins?

Im goin with deadshot

Bullseye

I gotta go with bullseye

Poindexter

Hawkeye

Bullseye. I don't see the others replicating his feats.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bullseye. I don't see the others replicating his feats.

Dead shot has the most impressive feat, especially with a gun. This fight is with a gun remember.

Deadshot with absolute ease. Spite

The warehouse this is taking place has a relative amount of clutter, cover etc. So, this isn't a pure shootout. Things like stealth (seeing as they start in different positions), agility, tactics etc. also play a factor. Because, quite frankly, given how accurate all three are, I doubt any of them would have an actual problem landing a critical hit if they got a clean shot on any of the others.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dead shot has the most impressive feat, especially with a gun. This fight is with a gun remember.

And what feat would that be?

this comes down to floyd or dex..

will give actual answer later after i rewatch dex's scenes

Originally posted by FrothByte
And what feat would that be? The demonstration feat.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The warehouse this is taking place has a relative amount of clutter, cover etc. So, this isn't a pure shootout. Things like stealth (seeing as they start in different positions), agility, tactics etc. also play a factor. Because, quite frankly, given how accurate all three are, I doubt any of them would have an actual problem landing a critical hit if they got a clean shot on any of the others. I don't think it would be a lot of clutter in an old unused warehouse. Also, neither Bullseye or Hawkeye has the gun feats of shooting objects from warehouse type of distances.

Vault is the OP, if he says there is clutter, then there is clutter.

Originally posted by h1a8
The demonstration feat.

While that was impressive, it's still not as impressive as bouncing your bullets off the building across the street to hit a guy (actively moving and dodging) a few stories above you. Then doing it multiple times.

yea rewatched a lot of Dex's feats and he takes this really, really easy

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think it would be a lot of clutter in an old unused warehouse. Also, neither Bullseye or Hawkeye has the gun feats of shooting objects from warehouse type of distances.

What you think doesn't really matter. My thread, my OP. I get to set and specify/clarify the terms, as long as the thread is still within the first page/few posts, as it still is, as per MvF rules. The area I had in mind was similar to the front factory/warehouse of the building out of which the Fraternity operate in Wanted, but not quite as big. Maybe 2/3 the size, but similarly filled with old machinery and junk.

And the others most certainly have feats to suggest they could hit someone at that distance with a gun. But I remember the ridiculous lengths you tend to go to to lowball anyone matched against Deadshot, whether it's Bullseye, Hawkeye, Tilda, Wesley Gibson etc. so, not going to waste any more time here than I already have. I learned my lesson from the past, and I know there is nothing to gain from it. You are just going to push the same, tired arguments, despite the fact that numerous people, including myself, Frothbyte, Robtard and others have already debunked them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
While that was impressive, it's still not as impressive as bouncing your bullets off the building across the street to hit a guy (actively moving and dodging) a few stories above you. Then doing it multiple times.

To be fair, Dex hit with the first shot, but once Matt used his senses to figure out where Dex was shooting from, he was able to further use them to keep him and Nadeem out of the way of the other shots, by using things like the mirror to trick Dex into shooting at a reflection to waste bullets. Though the scene also makes it clear that Nadeem was clueless and would not have made it out of there alive without Matt, who was able to hear things like the gun cocking.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
To be fair, Dex hit with the first shot, but once Matt used his senses to figure out where Dex was shooting from, he was able to further use them to keep him and Nadeem out of the way of the other shots, by using things like the mirror to trick Dex into shooting at a reflection to waste bullets. Though the scene also makes it clear that Nadeem was clueless and would not have made it out of there alive without Matt, who was able to hear things like the gun cocking.

Matt avoided getting shot because, though he did use his senses, they also had furniture to hide behind. Had there been no furniture in that room I doubt they could have avoided Dexter's shots, enhanced senses or no.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Matt avoided getting shot because, though he did use his senses, they also had furniture to hide behind. Had there been no furniture in that room I doubt they could have avoided Dexter's shots, enhanced senses or no.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Vault is the OP, if he says there is clutter, then there is clutter. Correct. Didn't realize he is the OP.
Well it all depends now.

Originally posted by FrothByte
While that was impressive, it's still not as impressive as bouncing your bullets off the building across the street to hit a guy (actively moving and dodging) a few stories above you. Then doing it multiple times.

It's more than a billion times more impressive. The probability of sending two back to back bullets through the same hole is less than 1 in a billion. The probability of sending 3 rounds is less than 1 billionth times 1 billionth. Keep going to you get all the rounds shot by DS.

DS had to be accurate to less than the nearest millimeter. That means the angle he shot the bullet has to have an error no less than basically an infinitesimal.

The other two never showed this type of accuracy. There is plenty of error to still achieve their feats. For example, if the goal is to hit someone's head (by ricochet) then you can be off a slight angle and still achieve the result. Think of the game of pool. The pocket is wide enough where the difference from the minimum to maximum angle that you can bank a shot and still make the pocket is significant. And ricochet objects is based off physics and geometry (can be learned). Shooting all those bullets through the same hole is impossible (no matter how accurate someone is).

Originally posted by h1a8
It's more than a billion times more impressive. The probability of sending two back to back bullets through the same hole is less than 1 in a billion. The probability of sending 3 rounds is less than 1 billionth times 1 billionth. Keep going to you get all the rounds shot by DS.

DS had to be accurate to less than the nearest millimeter. That means the angle he shot the bullet has to have an error no less than basically an infinitesimal.

The other two never showed this type of accuracy. There is plenty of error to still achieve their feats. For example, if the goal is to hit someone's head (by ricochet) then you can be off a slight angle and still achieve the result. Think of the game of pool. The pocket is wide enough where the difference from the minimum to maximum angle that you can bank a shot and still make the pocket is significant. And ricochet objects is based off physics and geometry (can be learned). Shooting all those bullets through the same hole is impossible (no matter how accurate someone is).

So you're saying a feat where one is shooting at close range with no obstacles, at stationary targets that are clearly visible in a straight line, in a calm and controlled environment in clear lighting...

... is somehow more impressive than a feat where one is shooting at long range with multiple obstacles in the way, at moving targets who are actively trying to avoid getting hit and are not visible other than through a reflection in a window across the alley, in a chaotic and stressful environment in dim lighting?

Now that's retarded.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's more than a billion times more impressive. The probability of sending two back to back bullets through the same hole is less than 1 in a billion. The probability of sending 3 rounds is less than 1 billionth times 1 billionth. Keep going to you get all the rounds shot by DS.

DS had to be accurate to less than the nearest millimeter. That means the angle he shot the bullet has to have an error no less than basically an infinitesimal.

The other two never showed this type of accuracy. There is plenty of error to still achieve their feats. For example, if the goal is to hit someone's head (by ricochet) then you can be off a slight angle and still achieve the result. Think of the game of pool. The pocket is wide enough where the difference from the minimum to maximum angle that you can bank a shot and still make the pocket is significant. And ricochet objects is based off physics and geometry (can be learned). Shooting all those bullets through the same hole is impossible (no matter how accurate someone is).

Cite your source.

I'm getting the popcorn ready...

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Deadshot, easily.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cite your source.


Lol what? I was a range coach for the U.S. Marines and at a few hundred yards i could hit a dime with a M16 A4 at least 7 out of ten times. A dime is the same size roughly as your eye. Granted thats a stationary target but still..

There are people out there so much better than me its not even funny. Some trick shooters out there are absolutely insane with what they can pull off. So not sure where your getting this billions and billions stuff from.

When it comes to marksmanship almost anything is possible with the enpugh practice.

I believe you quoted the wrong person.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I believe you quoted the wrong person.

I did. My bad.

To Squall, of course it is. But to say billions and billions is stretching a lot. Go watch some trick shooters, they can and have done some pretty crazy stuff.

I thought that was Daredevil.

Im still going with Deadshot but lets chill on the hyperbole.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I thought that was Daredevil.

Bullseye was pretending to be Daredevil under Fisk's orders in S3, in order to destroy Daredevil's reputation.

This incarnation of the character was actually pretty interesting IMO. They went the opposite of the movie/tv stereotype where the grizzled army vet goes crazy from seeing too much violence. Bullseye showed psychotic tendencies as a child, and he and his therapist knew there was something seriously wrong, so he joined the military and later the FBI, actually using the strict system, rules, discipline etc. to try and keep himself on the straight and narrow, which he actually managed to do until Kingpin entered his life.

Deadshot doesn't have feats of actually going up against trained, skilled opponents. Actually he does against Batman and he got his ass handed to him

Bullseye wins by default due to having better feats.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, what about Clint? No one even thinks about him, even though he arguably has the best stealth (his whole Endgame ninja shtick), reflex (multiple feats of dodging things like energy bolts, even from behind, reacted to Scarlet Witch trying to jump him when she successfully got the drop on BW, Thor, Tony and Hulk, though she had help from her brother with Steve) and combat speed feats (kept up with a super soldier tier opponent in melee for a lot longer than most, in BP) out of all three.

And you don't need to be able to ricochet bullets or have millimeter accuracy with a gun in order to drop an unarmored opponent in these conditions. And he has tons of field experience, against a greater variety of enemies than Deadshot and Bullseye combined at this point.

Hawkeye wins.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Just to play Devil's Advocate, what about Clint? No one even thinks about him, even though he arguably has the best stealth (his whole Endgame ninja shtick), reflex (multiple feats of dodging things like energy bolts, even from behind, reacted to Scarlet Witch trying to jump him when she successfully got the drop on BW, Thor, Tony and Hulk, though she had help from her brother with Steve) and combat speed feats (kept up with a super soldier tier opponent in melee for a lot longer than most, in BP) out of all three.

And you don't need to be able to ricochet bullets or have millimeter accuracy with a gun in order to drop an unarmored opponent in these conditions. And he has tons of field experience, against a greater variety of enemies than Deadshot and Bullseye combined at this point.

Those are really good points

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you're saying a feat where one is shooting at close range with no obstacles, at stationary targets that are clearly visible in a straight line, in a calm and controlled environment in clear lighting...

... is somehow more impressive than a feat where one is shooting at long range with multiple obstacles in the way, at moving targets who are actively trying to avoid getting hit and are not visible other than through a reflection in a window across the alley, in a chaotic and stressful environment in dim lighting?

Now that's retarded.

Yes, and more than a billion times more difficult.
It's impossible (not improbable) to do what DS did.
It's not impossible to do what the others did.


No entity (even God) can send all those bullets through the same hole and with different guns at that distance.

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

Lmao

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Those are really good points

And here is Bullseye in action with a gun, seeing as you don't seem too familiar with him, based on an earlier comment. This is one of my favourite comic book character introduction scenes to date:

6yEpMGBC3Kc

I love the little details they added, like the double ricochet at 1:02 to hit the guy's knee, and then headshoting him when he drops out of cover. And yes, he kills two guys by throwing pieces of the gun lol.

And here is the pistol sniping feat:

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You'll notice the throws at the end of the vid are also accurate, but Daredevil either dodges or blocks the projectiles with other objects.

DS will not miss. The others can. DS can richocet bullets too. Cover won't help.
Clint isn't very accurate with a gun (lack of feats).

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lmao

There we have it. Deadshot > God.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes, and more than a billion times more difficult.
It's impossible (not improbable) to do what DS did.
It's not impossible to do what the others did.


No entity (even God) can send all those bullets through the same hole and with different guns at that distance.

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

Yes? That's your answer? Yes?

Yes, shooting close range targets is harder than long range targets?
Yes, shooting at targets with no obstacles is harder than one with obstacles?

Did you even read my post at all?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes? That's your answer? Yes?

Yes, shooting close range targets is harder than long range targets?
Yes, shooting at targets with no obstacles is harder than one with obstacles?

Did you even read my post at all?

Bruh, didn't you read? Deadshot is so awesomesauce that the celestial being who created him and gave him his accuracy is completely incapable of replicating it or ever bestowing that ability to any other creation ever again. God basically used up all his accuracy juice on Floyd.

Originally posted by h1a8
The probability of sending two back to back bullets through the same hole is less than 1 in a billion.

Cite your source.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
There we have it. Deadshot > God.


Jesus...couldnt even make those shots lol.

That was very impressive thanks!

Lets be realistic, none of them will miss. This is about who gets the jump on the others and thats basically it.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Lets be realistic, none of them will miss. This is about who gets the jump on the others and thats basically it.

Yep, I feel the same, hence why I added some other elements, like cover, and started them in different positions. So, marksmanship still plays a big role, but other parts of their skill set will also factor into it. Because I feel like Deadshot and Bullseye are probably better with a gun than Clint, but Clint is better than them in other areas that could factor in.

Clint has actual stealth skills and his accuracy is top notch.

And if it ever got physical Floyd and Pointdexter would be ****ed too.

He takes this.

To be fair to Dex, while he doesn't really have much in the way of stealth feats himself, he has been shown to be very good at keeping track of stealthy characters, like Daredevil.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6659222-3219022523-Verif.gif

And Matt is a guy who is routinely able to use a combination of his speed, agility, training and senses to sneak in and out of most places nearly at will, even with several people around.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Jesus...couldnt even make those shots lol.

That was very impressive thanks!

Lets be realistic, none of them will miss. This is about who gets the jump on the others and thats basically it.

None of them will miss straight shots, that's why we need to look at their skills beyond that.

Dex is the only one who has feats of using guns against a decent opponent. In a warehouse setting with lots of obstacles you want to back someone who's proven to be able to shoot around obstacles with no prep involved. Again that's Dex.

Clint has the best pure h2h feat but since there will be lots of stuff lying around, Dex still has the very impressive feat of actually defeating DD in CQC. Neither Clint nor Floyd have any feat of actually defeating a high end fighter in cqc.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cite your source.

The source is common sense.
No one has ever reported doing it (two back to back bullets through the same bullet hole). And humans have shot bullets at still targets significantly more than trillions of times. If the average groupings from the top handgun shooters are an inch apart the mathematically it can shown.

Note: We are talking about 2 bullets, not the amount DS actually shot. Considering the amount DS shot then the number is beyond your imagination.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes? That's your answer? Yes?

Yes, shooting close range targets is harder than long range targets?
Yes, shooting at targets with no obstacles is harder than one with obstacles?

Did you even read my post at all?

I guess you like to ignore the important part of shooting through the same hole. Let's ignore that and concentrate only on distance and obstacles.

It's impossible to do. The feats from the others are improbable, not impossible.
Again it's more than a billion times more difficult.

Use some common sense. In more than a quintillion tries, the best shooter in the world couldn't do what DS did.


And remember, DS can ricochet bullets too.

Originally posted by h1a8
The source is common sense.

If it's common sense, provide 3 posters that agree with you. otherwise it's just more of your lying.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If it's common sense, provide 3 posters that agree with you. otherwise it's just more of your lying.

If it's not common sense to you then either something is wrong with you or you are lying. End of story.

Originally posted by h1a8
If it's not common sense to you then either something is wrong with you or you are lying. End of story.

Again, if it is really common sense, you'll have no trouble getting posters to agree with you.

Quick poll, who agrees that the below claim is "common sense"?


Originally posted by h1a8
The probability of sending two back to back bullets through the same hole is less than 1 in a billion.

Originally posted by h1a8




I guess you like to ignore the important part of shooting through the same hole. Let's ignore that and concentrate only on distance and obstacles.

It's impossible to do. The feats from the others are improbable, not impossible.
Again it's more than a billion times more difficult.

Use some common sense. In more than a quintillion tries, the best shooter in the world couldn't do what DS did.


And remember, DS can ricochet bullets too.

Both of what DS and Dex did are impossible to replicate by humans. The difference is that DS did his feat in a controlled, non-stressful environment where he had a clear shot at the target whereas Dex did his feat against a moving target at a longer distance with multiple obstacles in the way.

Guess which one would be more applicable to the scenario at hand.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Both of what DS and Dex did are impossible to replicate by humans. The difference is that DS did his feat in a controlled, non-stressful environment where he had a clear shot at the target whereas Dex did his feat against a moving target at a longer distance with multiple obstacles in the way.

Guess which one would be more applicable to the scenario at hand.

From an accuracy standpoint what Dex did wasn't impossible. It's just improbable. It can be replicated if the best humans were given under 1 million tries.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Quick poll, who agrees that the below claim is "common sense"?

No, because its bullshit. Trick shooters have been doing it for a hundred ****in years. Annie Oakley did that shit with okd ass firearms. Gtfoh with that trash statement.

Originally posted by h1a8
From an accuracy standpoint what Dex did wasn't impossible. It's just improbable. It can be replicated if the best humans were given under 1 million tries.

Prove it can be replicated.

This is ridiculous. If my brain cells were capable of wielding blunt objects, they would beat themselves to ****ing death right now

Originally posted by h1a8
From an accuracy standpoint what Dex did wasn't impossible. It's just improbable. It can be replicated if the best humans were given under 1 million tries.

No, it's impossible. Prove to me that a regular human being can accurately target something a few stories above them by ricocheting bullets from across the street.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, it's impossible. Prove to me that a regular human being can accurately target something a few stories above them by ricocheting bullets from across the street.


I bet Jesus could do it.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I bet Jesus could do it.

But what would Jesus do?

****in murder everybody

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, it's impossible. Prove to me that a regular human being can accurately target something a few stories above them by ricocheting bullets from across the street.

If the movie physics allows the ricochet (instead of absorbing the bullet or shattering it upon impact) then many humans can achieve the feat in under a million tries. Simple geometry and trial and error.

The point is that the margin of error is much larger in Dex feat than DS. Think of a bank shot in pool. There are many different angles to still make the pocket. Or the margin of error (angle differential) is significantly large enough to still make the pocket.

Originally posted by h1a8
If the movie physics allows the ricochet (instead of absorbing the bullet or shattering it upon impact) then many humans can achieve the feat in under a million tries. Simple geometry and trial and error.

The point is that the margin of error is much larger in Dex feat than DS. Think of a bank shot in pool. There are many different angles to still make the pocket. Or the margin of error (angle differential) is significantly large enough to still make the pocket.

Again, prove many humans can replicate the feat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, prove many humans can replicate the feat.

After under a million tries and having movie physics for the bullet.
Let's not move the goalposts shall we.

Originally posted by h1a8
If the movie physics allows the ricochet (instead of absorbing the bullet or shattering it upon impact) then many humans can achieve the feat in under a million tries. Simple geometry and trial and error.

The point is that the margin of error is much larger in Dex feat than DS. Think of a bank shot in pool. There are many different angles to still make the pocket. Or the margin of error (angle differential) is significantly large enough to still make the pocket.

So you're saying that a human given a million tries can CONSECUTIVELY hit a moving target via ricocheting off an opposite building towards an upper floor?

Prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
After under a million tries and having movie physics for the bullet.
Let's not move the goalposts shall we.

Point out where in your original claim you mention movie physics, otherwise it's you that is moving the goalposts.

Here is your claim.

Originally posted by h1a8
From an accuracy standpoint what Dex did wasn't impossible. It's just improbable. It can be replicated if the best humans were given under 1 million tries.

Prove it can replicated in under a million tries.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Here is your claim.



Prove it can replicated in under a million tries.

My claim is the accuracy of the feat can be replicated under a million tries.

Originally posted by h1a8
My claim is the accuracy of the feat can be replicated under a million tries.


Prove it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove it.

First, do you disagree that there is at least one human that can pull of the accuracy of the ricochet feat in under a million tries?

In other words, if the bullets behaves as it did in the show (bounces off) and one only needs accuracy then it can be achieved in under a million tries?