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The Imperiex probe that beat up to the Jla in Owaw

Who wins

how many probes?

Originally posted by MrMind
how many probes?

The probe that wrecked the combined Jla in Jla our world at war

The probe wins.

That Probe was probably around Lord Mar-Vell's level and we saw how the Annihilators fared against him.

The Annihilators sheer unability to win makes them lose here

Team

Heralds did survive the explosion though. I doubt any of them would die.

Ronan would die. I think he's dead right now. Oh, and that weapon of his would turn a probe into horse shit.

FWIW, a random probe shell was used to create the Entropy Aegis.

And it stopped 'Darkseid's best' Omega Effect/Beams (can't recall which exactly).

FWIW.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
FWIW, a random probe shell was used to create the Entropy Aegis.

And it stopped 'Darkseid's best' Omega Effect/Beams (can't recall which exactly).

FWIW.

What has damaged the Shell?

What about Zod taking out a couple?

That was off panel right? I don't have scans of that.

No. They showed him destroying it iirc. Let me see.

Originally posted by carver9
No. They showed him destroying it iirc. Let me see.

Was it the same Zod who was able to break Superman's jaw with a single hit, and was able to speedblitz him?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/12/120267/4875931-6595729760-48759.png

This Zod?

Yep, that Zod.

Probe

On panel, one Imperiex probe beats down Zod, Bizarro, Ignition together.

http://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/?action=view&current=probemisc1-1.jpg

Shown again.

http://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/?action=view&current=probemisc2-1.jpg
http://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/?action=view&current=probemisc3-1.jpg

So yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, that Zod.

In that case, I await your scans. Phildo has shown them taking on the entirety of Pokolistan, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
FWIW, a random probe shell was used to create the Entropy Aegis.

And it stopped 'Darkseid's best' Omega Effect/Beams (can't recall which exactly).

FWIW.

Molecules are molecules though. Ronans weapon would slay it.

Originally posted by Stoic
Molecules are molecules though. Ronans weapon would slay it.

Seeing as it resists Entropy, that's a high order.

By your logic, Ronan can transmute Odin. He could transmute the entire Multiverse.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In that case, I await your scans. Phildo has shown them taking on the entirety of Pokolistan, though.

Understandable but that doesnt take away from Zod defeating them though. The scans I have are outdated and I'm getting an error message. Maybe someone else can post it. I know ABHI have the scans because we discussed it before.

Originally posted by carver9
Understandable but that doesnt take away from Zod defeating them though. The scans I have are outdated and I'm getting an error message. Maybe someone else can post it. I know ABHI have the scans because we discussed it before.

So..?

Pokolistan Zod is superior to Any member of the Annihilators.

Originally posted by panthergod
So..?

Pokolistan Zod is superior to Any member of the Annihilators.

Keep thinking that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Seeing as it resists Entropy, that's a high order.

By your logic, Ronan can transmute Odin. He could transmute the entire Multiverse.

Not really, but by my logic it should be able to as entropy has a different function than what his hammer does.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not really, but by my logic it should be able to as entropy has a different function than what his hammer does.

But your logic is that molecules are molecules.

LT has molecules. Reed took his skin and used it to coat his ship.

So can Ronan transmute his skin into paper?

Originally posted by Stoic
Molecules are molecules though. Ronans weapon would slay it. This might be an even better argument than 'Hulk is Hulk'.

I can understand people who disagree, but honestly Surfer's board does seem like it might be one of those things that are just the right weapon for this job. It has blasted right through some crazy shit before. My memory might be slightly off cause it's been a minute, but in Annihilation I think Firelord and Airwalker were struggling to damage even one of these giant ships in the Annihilation fleet, then as soon as Surfer entered on the scene he destroyed like 4 or 5 of them in a row by just strait up bullrushing through them. He busted strait through vibranium walls to save Nova while still maintaining enough enough speed to grab her and blast through the walls again to escape before an electrical signal could reach a bunch of explosives.

I'm not saying he'd be able to take one out easily or that he's more powerful than everyone/anyone who failed, but it does seem like there's a fair chance he'd be among those that took one out. It's just that his board is really fast, and really tough, and its the kind of thing that artists really like to draw so Surfer's got some decent feats in his history at this kind of thing lol

Originally posted by carver9
Keep thinking that.

He was originally intended to be the PRe-Crisis Superman, and dominated Superman.

So.. yes, FAR above any single member of the Annihilators in raw power and formidability.

Originally posted by panthergod
He was originally intended to be the PRe-Crisis Superman, and dominated Superman.

So.. yes, FAR above any single member of the Annihilators in raw power and formidability.

Nope.

Annihilators mainly becuz of Surfer

Originally posted by panthergod
So..?

Pokolistan Zod is superior to Any member of the Annihilators.

BY a large margin, that Zod is trans level

Originally posted by carver9
Understandable but that doesnt take away from Zod defeating them though. The scans I have are outdated and I'm getting an error message. Maybe someone else can post it. I know ABHI have the scans because we discussed it before.

Still waiting.

And why is Carver using that Zod to discredit OWAW? Lol

He broke Superman's jaw and supposedly defeated multiple probes. That's a skyfather+ right there.

I recall he kept Bizarro as a pet punching bag, iirc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But your logic is that molecules are molecules.

LT has molecules. Reed took his skin and used it to coat his ship.

So can Ronan transmute his skin into paper?

Never saw him do that, but we do know that the Probes were not impossible to destroy, even though you're trying your best to paint them that way. If Arthur can destroy one, why couldn't Ronan?

Because Arthur dealt magical piercing damage using the trident of Poseidon, which pretty sure Ronan doesn't have?

And can you give any reasons why total molecular control would absolutely fail against the Probes? Or am I completely wrong about the Universal Weapon?

Because you're giving a no limits fallacy. Can the Universal Weapon transmute the LT? We know he has physical skin.

It isn't a no limits fallacy when these Probes that were entropy proof, fell to forces that weren't entropy. That would be more like you saying that the Probes had no limit to their resistance, as long as we ignore all the times that they were broken. Argue around it if you want, I'm just not convinced.

But you're the one asserting he can transmute them.

So onus is on you to prove that claim. Using a magical piercing item like the Trident of Poseidon isn't proof.

List anyone, or anything that broke a Probe. Did they hit it with entropy? Why does it seem like their success is exclusive to them, and only them? You've failed to answer why it would absolutely fail, and instead made this about something that he was never in the position to do. Meanwhile the Probes have holes in them from more than one source. I don't think it's some kind of struggle DS. The UW just has a funtion that makes matter pliable, among other abilities..

If it didn't work in the DC universe, even though it should, it would definitely work in the Marvel universe.

It was already given on page 1 of this thread lol.

Now list the items the Universal Weapon has transmuted.

'makes matter pliable'? So Mjolnir, Hulk, Living Tribunal can all be transmuted? Infinity Gauntlet? Surfer's board?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was already given on page 1 of this thread lol.

Now list the items the Universal Weapon has transmuted.

'makes matter pliable'? So Mjolnir, Hulk, Living Tribunal can all be transmuted? Infinity Gauntlet? Surfer's board?

That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?

But they are all molecules are they not? Molecules are molecules. Or are you saying they have levels now?

What is the most durable item the UW has transmuted? Simple q.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?

Is the living tribunal still dead

Gladiator knocks its head off.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's neither here nor there. The point was that the Probes weren't indestructible.

Hulk resists because of the power he gives off coupled by his insane healing levels that have been known to increase based on his adrenaline levels. The Hulk has other feats of resisting transmutation so I don't see him to be a reason to slap the suspect card on the UW.

Mjolnir was fashioned to cast energy that it catches, but it isn't as if it hold's onto the siphoned energy for long. I see nothing in Mjolnir that makes the UW look suspect either. Surfer's board? Is it even true matter? Didn't think so.

How is that Probe as sophisticated as the Infinity Gems that house beings of energy unless that took a retcon? Or the LT for that matter? I'm not really even sure why the LT is being mentioned?

How about a Doomsday fist vs a Probe?

Your argument is molecules are molecules. That implies that Ronan can transmute anything that has molecules. Is that you stance?

Originally posted by Stoic
Molecules are molecules though. Ronans weapon would slay it.

It's frankly quite amazing how bad some people are at not only debating, but simple rationalization.

Any of the Annihilators can win this.

Originally posted by carver9
Any of the Annihilators can win this.

so you wanna bz ronan can beat the probe that wrecked the JLA then?

Carver never BZs because he knows he'll get slaughtered. He'll just give an excuse about not having the time or something silly.

Originally posted by panthergod
So..?

Pokolistan Zod is superior to Any member of the Annihilators.

Originally posted by panthergod
He was originally intended to be the PRe-Crisis Superman, and dominated Superman.

So.. yes, FAR above any single member of the Annihilators in raw power and formidability.

Crap I wish PG was here to elaborate more on his second post.

Who's on the annihilators again? Surfer, Nova, Bill, Glads, Ronan...? Am I missing anyone. Quasar maybe? Bill could. Surfer could. Quasar is suspect. Nova could but then he'd die. Glads toss-up. Ronan no.

Generally these guys:

https://cosmicbook.news/sites/default/files/annihilators-most-powerful-ever.jpg

And yeah, I'd agree with your assessment.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Is the living tribunal still dead

No. LT really doesn't ever die.

Originally posted by h1a8
Your argument is molecules are molecules. That implies that Ronan can transmute anything that has molecules. Is that you stance?

Anything that does not have the ability to replace the corrupted molecules, such as in the Hulk's case, or actively absorb the matter manipulation energy, and redirect it, such as in Mjolnir's case are extremely rare exceptions. The Hulk doesn't actually resist anything he just reforms the missing, or corrupted molecules via HF.

The Hulk, Mjolnir, and every other thing and/or character mentioned are different than a Probe. Indestructible is just that. If the Probes were indestructible nothing would be able to destroy them. Several different sources did just that. Why does the UW fail? Stellaris was pretty tough as well, but Ronan defeated her with ease when he matter manipulates her armor turning it to molten slag. Stellaris fought evenly with Thor, and Hercules. In certain cases Ronan is actually very powerful because of the weapon's ability to defy molecular composition. But this apparently wouldn't work while the Probes have been cited to have been trashed by several different sources, which continuously challenges the idea that these Probes were beyond harm. Wouldn't you call that hype?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But they are all molecules are they not? Molecules are molecules. Or are you saying they have levels now?

What is the most durable item the UW has transmuted? Simple q.

He turned Stellaris into molten slag with zero effort.

bump