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Injustice Superman-
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/13/135013/3301236-5861698386-INJUS.jpg
vs
Unowrthy Thor
http://i.imgur.com/NUSYrpK.jpg

Round 1tandard versions
Round 2uperman with Yellow ring

round1- probably thor
round2- superman rapes

Thor in both

get real.

supes w/ yellow ring would just fly thor into the sun ftl, like he did to mogo. battle over.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
get real.

supes w/ yellow ring would just fly thor into the sun ftl, like he did to mogo. battle over. .......I'm pretty sure that Thor would survive....

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
get real.

supes w/ yellow ring would just fly thor into the sun ftl, like he did to mogo. battle over.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor in both Thor without Jnolnir?????........no, logic dictates that injustice Supes overpowers him in both, BUT however..........given injustice Supes track record, Thor probably does win here.

This Thor would survive in the sun just fine.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
This Thor would survive in the sun just fine.
No, he wouldn't. Also Superman can beat him with his fists just fine. His fight with Darkseid was shaking entire Apokolips and would've destroyed the planet. That's a level above Thor.

I think I have made a worthy match up

Superman, unworthy Thor got too many low feats

He flew around in the sun looking for mjolnir.

Yeah but he was burning up every time. His eyes were roasting in their sockets, until his mom called him back inside.

Plus the core of the Sun is much much hotter than the surface.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His eyes were roasting in their sockets, until his mom called him back inside. I lol'd hard.

Also, Injustice speedblitzes.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
He flew around in the sun looking for mjolnir.
He was flying too fast to burn otherwise he was burning just on the surface of the sun. Also, this.

https://i.postimg.cc/tZjJxvGp/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/wyQvc59J/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/8sTskYbb/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/6Tzq8hjx/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/w7vvLsZy/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/56Rt32WP/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Y4cq5D9Y/image.jpg

Thor isn't that strong.

Superman could just poke him with his fingers. Superman's fingers >>>> wood spikes.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
He flew around in the sun looking for mjolnir.

And how is that the same as sitting in the sun? When he was already being roasted.

http://i.imgur.com/zvgzODum.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rBMBFJUm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/SK90tGOm.jpg

Just sayin..

That's not unworthy Thor.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
http://i.imgur.com/zvgzODum.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rBMBFJUm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/SK90tGOm.jpg

Just sayin..
Not unworthy thor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not unworthy Thor. DID HIS DNA change?

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
DID HIS DNA change?

Apparently so, as Unworthy Thor was unable to swim for long in the Sun.

But hey, we go by comics here right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not unworthy Thor.
Troo if u wanna get technical.

Not sure how it affects his overall durability though.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apparently so, as Unworthy Thor was unable to swim for long in the Sun.

But hey, we go by comics here right?
But like in comics things like speed, strength, and durability have different level of showings even in the same character. The scans i posted being his best showing in the sun... But like u said, if u wanna get technical it wasnt during his time as unworthy.

Theres also this just for reference.. Prolly gonna bring up that this is Young Unworthy, but these time travel events seem to be linear in some kind of way. There were some hints of it being so during Aaron's run.
http://i.imgur.com/AOfjSkDm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wn2tbnVm.jpg

Plus there's the showing with the Apocalypse Twins, where his arm was burnt off by the Sun.

Agreed on the difference in showings.....But OP specified Unworthy.

I think we should be limiting his sun showings to Unworthy. or at least with a few years before.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apparently so, as Unworthy Thor was unable to swim for long in the Sun.

But hey, we go by comics here right? So you want to use the showing YOU pick huh?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Plus there's the showing with the Apocalypse Twins, where his arm was burnt off by the Sun.
I think there was lack of sufficent proof on that being a portal to a sun..

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
So you want to use the showing YOU pick huh?

I'm using unworthy Thor showings.

Where is the contradiction?

Where is the proof that that was our sun ?

Also Abhi, did you say that Thor was flying too fast to burn ? The purpose of that feat was for Thor to endure as long as possible while he searched inside the sun for Mjolnirs remains.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm using unworthy Thor showings.

Where is the contradiction? Its still thor. Unworthy or not. What if i were to ask you can thor, gladiator, WW or superman survive an all out blast from Surfer and you say they all can especially Superman but im using Gas station superman? Of course you are going to post superman tanking a massive blast, but then i can say thats not gas station superman though.

I may ban JBL The Great and make him find a way back into his old JBL account. mmm

Originally posted by Badabing
I may ban JBL The Great and make him find a way back into his old JBL account. mmm That old account cannot be found from my end.

Is this guy from comicvine ?

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
That old account cannot be found from my end. I know. biscuits

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
Its still thor. Unworthy or not. What if i were to ask you can thor, gladiator, WW or superman survive an all out blast from Surfer and you say they all can especially Superman but im using Gas station superman? Of course you are going to post superman tanking a massive blast, but then i can say thats not gas station superman though. 😂

JBL: MUST...DEFEND....MARVEL...AT....ALL...COST

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah but he was burning up every time. His eyes were roasting in their sockets, until his mom called him back inside.

Plus the core of the Sun is much much hotter than the surface.

This was a reply to Khazra.

https://i.postimg.cc/x8NffcYb/RCO004-1553091544.jpg

Unworthy Thor's eyes roast in the Sun, his own mom has to call him back inside, he's suffering and was going to get himself killed over the hammer. The page even starts with 'speaking of burning....'Look at that last panel. Unworthy Thor is NOT enjoying himself there....

Whereas Injustice Superman was pretty fond of throwing things into the Sun.

We had Ganthet and Mogo, and Parasite:

https://cdn1us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/styles/article_width/public/2016/06/injustice_deaths_parasite.jpg

Sigh... this is sad.

Saying that Unworthy Thor would survive in the Sun just fine, based on him flying around looking for Mjolnir, is disingenuous.

He was hurting, his eyes were roasting, his mom was worried that he would kill himself.

Later on, when Daredevil had nailed him to the World Tree, his flesh was burning and he was covered in burns. It was hardly a walk in the park for him.

Read back on the thread, please.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Saying that Unworthy Thor would survive in the Sun just fine, based on him flying around looking for Mjolnir, is disingenuous.

He was hurting, his eyes were roasting, his mom was worried that he would kill himself.

Later on, when Daredevil had nailed him to the World Tree, his flesh was burning and he was covered in burns. It was hardly a walk in the park for him.

Read back on the thread, please.

Celey showed you a Thor that wasnt worthy of Mjlonir diving into the sun.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Saying that Unworthy Thor would survive in the Sun just fine, based on him flying around looking for Mjolnir, is disingenuous.

He was hurting, his eyes were roasting, his mom was worried that he would kill himself.

Later on, when Daredevil had nailed him to the World Tree, his flesh was burning and he was covered in burns. It was hardly a walk in the park for him.

Read back on the thread, please.
I dun think whoever said that was actually being "disingenious". Obviously the Sun is not a nice place to be. It is the Sun after all. Stay in there long enuff and u will get fried. In Thor's case however he went in there for weeks everyday scouring the damned thing for pieces of his hammer. He would do it until his fauxjolnirs would start to melt and his eyes would start to burn etc... He went in there in his own volition. And then he literally has a long history of star diving and it not really being a detriment to him. When someone says "he would be fine in there", he would be all things considered. I think it was just a general description of how he deals with something like this.

Originally posted by carver9
Celey showed you a Thor that wasnt worthy of Mjlonir diving into the sun.

That's not the one shown in the OP. Moreover, we use the most current versions.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I dun think whoever said that was actually being "disingenious". Obviously the Sun is not a nice place to be. It is the Sun after all. Stay in there long enuff and u will get fried. In Thor's case however he went in there for weeks everyday scouring the damned thing for pieces of his hammer. He would do it until his fauxjolnirs would start to melt and his eyes would start to burn etc... He went in there in his own volition. And then he literally has a long history of star diving and it not really being a detriment to him. When someone says "he would be fine in there", he would be all things considered. I think it was just a general description of how he deals with something like this.

Going in there of his own volition =/= surviving just fine. Carver comes onto KMC and posts every day of his own volition, doesn't mean he doesn't get roasted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Going in there of his own volition =/= surviving just fine. Carver comes onto KMC and posts every day of his own volition, doesn't mean he doesn't get roasted.
Err..
Goin in the Sun of his own volition as in it wasnt much of a danger to him at all. Provided of course he doesnt sit in there without ever getting out.

He was just right as rain as soon as he flew out. Not even a hint of singeing... Not even his eyes.
Which brings us back to could he get out? He has done some crazy travel w/o a hammer. He's done it in the past and with Aaron especially. Brings us to other things. Does he have fauxjolnirs as Unworthy? Or... Is it just the pic w/o hammers? Does he have Toothgrinder? It could be argued that his goat was standard equipment. It was basically with him everywhere as Unworthy.

If Batman doesn't get the Batmobile in forum fights (despite it...you know, being the Batmobile), I doubt an abstract level being like Toothgrinder is allowed.

bump

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If Batman doesn't get the Batmobile in forum fights (despite it...you know, being the Batmobile), I doubt an abstract level being like Toothgrinder is allowed.
I guess.

But this goat was with him almost everywhere. Not only as a companion and a means of travel, but he was a weapon.
Hammerless Unworthy was almost like Beastmaster or a hunter class from WoW with the way he used Toothgrinder.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I guess.

But this goat was with him almost everywhere. Not only as a companion and a means of travel, but he was a weapon.
Hammerless Unworthy was almost like Beastmaster or a hunter class from WoW with the way he used Toothgrinder.

....

You're acting like Bruce doesn't/can't use the Bat-vehicles as weaponry, call them to him when he needs them, control them like a Beastmaster, use their onboard weapons remotely etc.

Of course he uses the batmobile. He uses his batplanes too. Batjets... Batcycles... Batboats... Batthingamajigs..

And he uses them as weapons. Not just as modes of transport.

Yet, forum rules mean he's not getting access to them.

Edit: but if you think he needs it in this thread, says a lot.

Right.
Just making a point. He doesnt use multiple goats. I wouldnt say his boat is with him everywhere. The goat however...

Never said he needs the goat.. Said it could be argued that the goat was basically standard equip.. Funnily enuff...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Right.
Just making a point. He doesnt use multiple goats. I wouldnt say his boat is with him everywhere. The goat however...

Never said he needs the goat.. Said it could be argued that the goat was basically standard equip.. Funnily enuff...

The point is moot, however. Forum rules are pretty clear. It can't be argued that the goat is standard equipment, certainly not if we follow the rules (not that you have been, as forum rules are also pretty clear on which versions we use lol).



Current Version of Unworthy Thor =/= Worthy Thor feats, or even Young Thor. We use the latest versions (yes, I know Thor is now Worthy, so was using the latest versions of Unworthy). OP even has a picture clearly detailing which Thor he is using. IF you wanted to argue it, then we could argue that we don't use Destroyer Arm Thor, but Black Uru Arm Thor, as that is what's in the OP.



Unless you are going to show me Unworthy Thor normally and consistently CARRYING Toothgrinder, your point is moot.

Wouldn't Superman flying Thor to the sun count as a self bfr for both? Does anyone have scans of him tossing someone from a planet into the sun?

Originally posted by carver9
Wouldn't Superman flying Thor to the sun count as a self bfr for both?

No.

Because Superman can still return under his own power.

I guess its up to the op.

Dont see why Unworthy w/uru arm cant draw feats from young unworthy. Plus the arm can be seen as an upgrade of sorts. Maybe even draw feats from hammerless Thor or Thor not using mjolnir. Essentially Thor w/o hammer anyway. Theres no fundamental change in his power except for hammer or hammers.. *shrug*

Except for flight

But we have a solid showing for the exact Thor being used in the thread, roasting in the sun.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No.

Because Superman can still return under his own power.
It would still be self bfr. He can't take off to the sun anymore than Bruce can run to the Batcave to get special tech.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would still be self bfr. He can't take off to the sun anymore than Bruce can run to the Batcave to get special tech.

Exactly. Its bfring himself

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would still be self bfr. He can't take off to the sun anymore than Bruce can run to the Batcave to get special tech.

Check the rules.

And also check the battlefield stips.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would still be self bfr. He can't take off to the sun anymore than Bruce can run to the Batcave to get special tech. I would agree with this if it wasn't such a poorly thought-out comparison. Superman (specially after being so close to the sun) will make the trip and back under the ten minutes mark or w/e it is for a bfr win.

Because by this logic, I mean....how much does Hulk/Juggernaut etc weigh?

If all it takes is a removal from the battlefield (which in 2D is only 500m in width), then all it takes is a simple punch out of the ring.

When we know these herald type guys can easily punch their opponent MILES.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I would agree with this if it wasn't such a poorly thought-out comparison. Superman (specially after being so close to the sun) will make the trip and back under the ten minutes mark or w/e it is for a bfr win.
The time gone is irrelevant, the act of leaving is self bfr. If you'd prefer a different example, a teleporter isn't allowed to blink to his base and then teleport back to the battlefield even if he's only gone a second.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because by this logic, I mean....how much does Hulk/Juggernaut etc weigh?

If all it takes is a removal from the battlefield (which in 2D is only 500m in width), then all it takes is a simple punch out of the ring.

When we know these herald type guys can easily punch their opponent MILES.
There's a difference between self bfr and regular bfr. If some else removes you from the battlefield you're allowed to come back, but you're never allowed to leave. Attempts at BFR are allowed under forum rules by default, self bfr isn't.

What's stopping Superman from just grabbing Thor and throwing him into orbit? Or at least throwing him out of the battlefield?

iirc this version of Thor cannot fly, so he certainly wouldn't be able to return in a reasonable amount of time

Originally posted by darthgoober
The time gone is irrelevant, the act of leaving is self bfr. If you'd prefer a different example, a teleporter isn't allowed to blink to his base and then teleport back to the battlefield even if he's only gone a second.

Like Nightcrawler?

Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a difference between self bfr and regular bfr. If some else removes you from the battlefield you're allowed to come back, but you're never allowed to leave. Attempts at BFR are allowed under forum rules by default, self bfr isn't.

That's why I told you to check the battlefield.

He's not leaving the battlefield.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's why I told you to check the battlefield.

He's not leaving the battlefield.
Was there some special battlefield stipulation or amendment the thread starter made that I missed?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like Nightcrawler?
Yes technically. But unless I'm mistaken most people correctly assume that thread starters who feature Nightcrawler want him to have use of his teleportation powers even without a specific thread stipulation allowing it.

Someone like Pixie would be unstoppable if they could leave the battlefield, grab something real quick and teleport back.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Was there some special battlefield stipulation or amendment the thread starter made that I missed?

Check it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes technically. But unless I'm mistaken most people correctly assume that thread starters who feature Nightcrawler want him to have use of his teleportation powers even without a specific thread stipulation allowing it.

So yeah, EVERY single thread with Kurt ends with an automatic loss when he teleports. Good call.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Check it.
I didn't see any stipulations by the thread starter, am I missing something?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So yeah, EVERY single thread with Kurt ends with an automatic loss when he teleports. Good call.
If we wanted to ignore the spirit of every thread he's in, sure. But as I said luckily enough people seem to know the fundamentals of his power are meant to be an exception to the rule. But I don't think anyone would try to argue that he's allowed to teleport to the X-mansion for something during a battle.

Why are you keep using the faulty comparison of someone going back to their bases to pick up equipment with Superman flying Thor to the sun and leaving him there?

At best you'd be arguing a stalemate since both left the battlefield, but that would say a lot about your confidence in this Thor.

That's without getting into 'the spirit of the thread'. I'm sure that this Superman flying someone who is not subduing to him to the sun is more akin to the spirit of the thread than Nightcrawler teleporting back to the X mansion for some Jean cake mid-battle imo, even though you want to make those cases seem analogous.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Why are you keep using the faulty comparison of someone going back to their bases to pick up equipment with Superman flying Thor to the sun and leaving him there?

At best you'd be arguing a stalemate since both left the battlefield, but that would say a lot about your confidence in this Thor.

That's without getting into 'the spirit of the thread'. I'm sure that this Superman flying someone who is not subduing to him to the sun is more akin to the spirit of the thread than Nightcrawler teleporting back to the X mansion for some Jean cake mid-battle imo, even though you want to make those cases seem analogous.
Sorry, my mind was geared more towards the "sundip" aspect of visiting the sun. But the example still works to an extent, because Nightcrawler's not allowed to take teleport his forum opponents into the Danger Room either. It's stated clear as day in the forum rules that combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry, my mind was geared more towards the "sundip" aspect of visiting the sun. But the example still works to an extent, because Nightcrawler's not allowed to take teleport his forum opponents into the danger room either. It's stated clear as day in the forum rules that combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match.

So why are you arguing about rules being 'clear as day' in one post, then 'spirit of the thread' in another? Clear as day, Kurt is leaving the battlefield EVERY time he uses his teleportation powers.

That's without getting into the whole 'how is this leaving the battlefield when no battlefield is stipulated' point.

Why is the battlefield only limited to the planet? Are you saying if it's not stipulated, and Colossus manages to throw Hulk 501metres away, he wins?

Or if Colossus steps a distance of 501 m away from Hulk, he self BFRs? Where do the rules stand on the HEIGHT distance?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't see any stipulations by the thread starter, am I missing something?
.

Yes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So why are you arguing about rules being 'clear as day' in one post, then 'spirit of the thread' in another? Clear as day, Kurt is leaving the battlefield EVERY time he uses his teleportation powers.

That's without getting into the whole 'how is this leaving the battlefield when no battlefield is stipulated' point.

Why is the battlefield only limited to the planet? Are you saying if it's not stipulated, and Colossus manages to throw Hulk 501metres away, he wins?

Or if Colossus steps a distance of 501 m away from Hulk, he self BFRs? Where do the rules stand on the HEIGHT distance?
Because I'm able to process both of those thoughts, they're not mutually exlusive. It's very possible for something to be an obvious intended exception to a rule, Nightcrawler's powers would be one such example IMO. There's no logical reason to think that thread starters would want him to be unable to teleport.

As for why it'd be limited to one planet... the fact that a "battle field" is acknowledged in the forum rules both as something that someone can be removed from to lose or forfeit the fight by leaving certainly suggest that there's some limit in the minds of the guys who wrote the rules and it doesn't seem like something that's even worth specifically mentioning being limited if it's larger than the planet it's starting on.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes.
Not sure what. I mean if the threadstarter actually stipulated something that brings this thread outside the typical bounds of the forum rules then so be it, what I'm saying is only intended to be applicable in the absence of such stipulations.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Why are you keep using the faulty comparison of someone going back to their bases to pick up equipment with Superman flying Thor to the sun and leaving him there?

At best you'd be arguing a stalemate since both left the battlefield, but that would say a lot about your confidence in this Thor.

That's without getting into 'the spirit of the thread'. I'm sure that this Superman flying someone who is not subduing to him to the sun is more akin to the spirit of the thread than Nightcrawler teleporting back to the X mansion for some Jean cake mid-battle imo, even though you want to make those cases seem analogous.

So with a thread with someone fighting a teleporter, I can say that person grabs whomever, teleport them inside of a volcano and teleports back to the battlefield? Sentry has shown the ability to teleport as well. He grabs Superman by the wrist and teleport him to a nearby red sun and teleports back to the battlefield. How far does this go?

Nice try, but fights still happen in character. And I already covered that point when talking about the 'spirit of the thread'.

That's why you never see me arguing Superman sundips in every fight, for example.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because I'm able to process both of those thoughts, they're not mutually exlusive. It's very possible for something to be an obvious intended exception to a rule, Nightcrawler's powers would be one such example IMO. There's no logical reason to think that thread starters would want him to be unable to teleport.

As for why it'd be limited to one planet... the fact that a "battle field" is acknowledged in the forum rules both as something that someone can be removed from to lose or forfeit the fight by leaving certainly suggest that there's some limit in the minds of the guys who wrote the rules and it doesn't seem like something that's even worth specifically mentioning being limited if it's larger than the planet it's starting on.

So what's your battlefield size, for Superman to 'leave' the field?

If you can't say, then how is he leaving?

This goes to Carver as well.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what's your battlefield size, for Superman to 'leave' the field?

If you can't say, then how is he leaving?

This goes to Carver as well.
It's not like I keep an exact measurement in my mind, the rules are deliberately vague on such things. As for how I can say he's leaving without such a measurement, as I said before there's no logical reason in having rules regarding BFR or self BFR if the "battle field" is bigger than a planet. Otherwise knocking a brick into space wouldn't qualify as a BFR even if the opponent can't get back because space is included in the basic battlefield. Hulk knocking Juggernaut to the moon would be a stalemate in a forum fight because both would still be on the battlefield but totally unable to continue the fight without outside assistance.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Nice try, but fights still happen in character. And I already covered that point when talking about the 'spirit of the thread'.

That's why you never see me arguing Superman sundips in every fight, for example.

So if I show this teleporter using that ability to leave, grab something and come back once, is that sufficient?

Tor can prolly emit lightning or have lightning hit at all kinds of angles if he ends up getting lifted. Just puttin it out there. Also has crazy wind.

Originally posted by carver9
So if I show this teleporter using that ability to leave, grab something and come back once, is that sufficient? No, because standard equipment and bfr are two different rules, my friend.

Why do I have to explain this? You were here long before I joined.

The matches don't take place on DC or Marvel Earth.

They take place on a featureless environment.

So the only thing they'd be grabbing with teleportation is their own cock.

Ah yeah, there's that too.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not like I keep an exact measurement in my mind, the rules are deliberately vague on such things. As for how I can say he's leaving without such a measurement, as I said before there's no logical reason in having rules regarding BFR or self BFR if the "battle field" is bigger than a planet. Otherwise knocking a brick into space wouldn't qualify as a BFR even if the opponent can't get back because space is included in the basic battlefield. Hulk knocking Juggernaut to the moon would be a stalemate in a forum fight because both would still be on the battlefield but totally unable to continue the fight without outside assistance.

Logical?

Heralds generally operate on planetary levels. When Zoom and Flash fight, they encompass the Earth. Gladiator crosses galaxies in the blink of an eye. Superman and Anointed One criss-crossed the globe. Hulk was punching and throwing Fin Fang Foom to the Moon. Blue Marvel was flying from the US to Greece in a matter of seconds. Superman (the 616 one) punched WW to the Sun and back, punched Lobo to the Moon, BM punched Sentry into space, Sentry was famous for throwing his problems into the Sun....You then limit them to.....500m or whatever.

And I'm not even getting into the Surfers and the Lanterns and other space based heralds.

As for knocking the bricks away...NOW you finally grasp why Hulk is placed as low as he is.

In short, you are arbitrarily placing a battlefield size, then coming in and chiming in (as you normally do) on a specific aspect of the argument, white knighting Carver, without realising you don't have a point. Because forum rules do not place a size, the OP hasn't placed a size, and you are merely doing it because it suits you.

Want to come at me with a fallback on 'hey, look, DA RULEZ!!!!'? Then make sure you actually know the rules first.

And yes, Carver, this goes to you too, as you were the first to bring it up.

To go back to your original post, no, it wouldn't be self-BFR, as there is no cap on the battlefield size specified.

Originally posted by carver9
So if I show this teleporter using that ability to leave, grab something and come back once, is that sufficient?

Read the rules, please.



If you have a fight set in Marvel Earth, then sure, Pixie can go home and come back with Prof X's Shi-Ar strap-on from his bottom bedside drawer (as long as you can prove she can reasonably get to them).

In a standard fight like this? No. If the fight is in Gotham? No.

I sometimes feel like I am the only one who reads the rules here. And crucially, understands them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Logical?

Heralds generally operate on planetary levels. When Zoom and Flash fight, they encompass the Earth. Gladiator crosses galaxies in the blink of an eye. Superman and Anointed One criss-crossed the globe. Hulk was punching and throwing Fin Fang Foom to the Moon. Blue Marvel was flying from the US to Greece in a matter of seconds. Superman (the 616 one) punched WW to the Sun and back, punched Lobo to the Moon, BM punched Sentry into space, Sentry was famous for throwing his problems into the Sun....You then limit them to.....500m or whatever.

And I'm not even getting into the Surfers and the Lanterns and other space based heralds.

As for knocking the bricks away...NOW you finally grasp why Hulk is placed as low as he is.

In short, you are arbitrarily placing a battlefield size, then coming in and chiming in (as you normally do) on a specific aspect of the argument, white knighting Carver, without realising you don't have a point. Because forum rules do not place a size, the OP hasn't placed a size, and you are merely doing it because it suits you.

Want to come at me with a fallback on 'hey, look, DA RULEZ!!!!'? Then make sure you actually know the rules first.

And yes, Carver, this goes to you too, as you were the first to bring it up.

To go back to your original post, no, it wouldn't be self-BFR, as there is no cap on the battlefield size specified.
Wait a sec, are you honestly refusing to acknowledge the forum rules because they're not specific enough about the size of the battlefield? I mean if you want exact numbers, talk to a mod to get them. The rules regarding BFR and self BFR are in place regardless of whether or not the rules specify exact dimensions of the battlefield.

I'm not arguing against the rules.

I'm agreeing 100% with them.

I'm saying there's nothing here to say him going to the Sun, with or without Thor, is removing himself from the battlefield's limits. As the battlefield's limits are not specified.

It's quite simple, really.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm not arguing against the rules.

I'm agreeing 100% with them.

I'm saying there's nothing here to say him going to the Sun, with or without Thor, is removing himself from the battlefield's limits. As the battlefield's limits are not specified.

It's quite simple, really.
Limits to the battlefield are almost never specified, the default is that there IS a battlefield that one can leave. It wouldn't be a default rule if there were no limits to the battlefield.

Seriously this kind of thing came up years ago because a few DC guys started talking about Supes leaving matches to sundip and power up. I'm pretty sure it was Pr who stepped forward and said that Supes isn't allowed to fly to the sun to sundip or drag his opponent there to beat on him because it would be leaving the battlefield. That's probably why when the convo first started I was thinking about it from the mindset of it being a sundip. Now I can't for the life of me remember when that went down so I can't point you there, but back then the situation had become so ridiculous that it probably stood out in PR's mind enough that he likely does if you want to check with him about it.

Cool.

The battlefield is the solar system. There we go.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

The battlefield is the solar system. There we go.
Well if you want to believe such a thing it's obviously not something I myself can change your mind about. But you really shouldn't be surprised if/when people disagree. I mean a mod ruled years ago that he's not allowed to fly to the sun during a forum fight, can't get much more definitive about whether the sun would be beyond the bounds of the default battlefield than that.

As much as you might like for the burden of proof to be on carver here, it's just not...

Well the burden of proof is on you to show the default battlefield is not.

You guys both assert that it's outside the battlefield. So prove it. Either with a ruling or whatever.

Otherwise, it's just you two asserting it is because 'well it is!!!'

Nothing in the rules say it is. Which is where mod rulings reside.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well the burden of proof is on you to show the default battlefield is not.

You guys both assert that it's outside the battlefield. So prove it. Either with a ruling or whatever.

Otherwise, it's just you two asserting it is because 'well it is!!!'

Nothing in the rules say it is. Which is where mod rulings reside.
You just very specifically asked for proof of a negative as if it's the next logical step in the discussion... think about that for a sec.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You just very specifically asked for proof of a negative as if it's the next logical step in the discussion... think about that for a sec. Originally posted by darthgoober
It would still be self bfr. Your assertion is that the sun is outside the battlefield.

It's not his job to prove that the sun is inside the battlefield since it was you who made the assertion that it's not.

In essence, you're the one who drew a made-up line in space, and then asked him to prove the made up line is not there.

I.e. asking him to prove the negative.

Quite ironic...so...I guess..."think about that for a sec"

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because it seems pretty obvious to me that since the rules described the battlefield as a featureless plain, that totally leaving the planet upon which that plain is located would be leaving the battlefield. Especially since I remember Pr saying that Supes wasn't allowed to take off to the sun years back after OWAW.

Why is leaving the planet obvious, but not the solar system? You're basing this on nothing, except your own made up line.

Hell, what makes your think the sun in this situation is far away? Why isn't it just next door?

And yeah, as Phildo said......you're the one asking me to prove a negative, lol.

You using 'logic'doesn't wash, when I've already said how heralds at this level essentially play with planetary distances like humans treat 100m sprints.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why is leaving the planet obvious, but not the solar system? You're basing this on nothing, except your own made up line.

Hell, what makes your think the sun in this situation is far away? Why isn't it just next door?

And yeah, as Phildo said......you're the one asking me to prove a negative, lol.

You using 'logic'doesn't wash, when I've already said how heralds at this level essentially play with planetary distances like humans treat 100m sprints.
Because the rules don't assign a different default battlefield to different tiers, and it would be unreasonable to ask the Thing to knock his opponent outside of the solar system for it to count as a BFR.

Again, you're free to make whatever assumptions you want about all this... I disagree. I remember Pr talking about such things. If you don't want to take my word for it, that's totally understandable(I believe very little of what anyone says myself). If it's an issue that you actually care about, you're free to ask Pr to confirm it. If it's an issue that carver actually cares about, he's free to ask Pr to confirm it. On the other hand if it's an issue whether the two of you(yes I'm talking to you too carv) are arguing just to argue and don't really want to have the question answered definitively because what your really want is to bicker then you're both free to play "Uh-Huh/Uh-Uh" to your hearts content.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because the rules don't assign a different default battlefield to different tiers, and it would be unreasonable to ask the Thing to knock his opponent outside of the solar system for it to count as a BFR.

Again, you're free to make whatever assumptions you want about all this... I disagree. I remember Pr talking about such things. If you don't want to take my word for it, that's totally understandable(I believe very little of what anyone says myself). If it's an issue that you actually care about, you're free to ask Pr to confirm it. If it's an issue that carver actually cares about, he's free to ask Pr to confirm it. On the other hand if it's an issue whether the two of you(yes I'm talking to you too carv) are arguing just to argue and don't really want to have the question answered definitively because what your really want is to bicker then you're both free to play "Uh-Huh/Uh-Uh" to your hearts content.

Perfect.

Mogo vs Ego. What's the size of the battlefield? Same planet?

What if Solaris is there? Rules don't assign a different default battlefield to different tiers, right? And if Unicron joins in? We assume they all start 0.5km away from each other on a planet somewhere?

Oh my.

You guys wanna break it down, some?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Perfect.

Mogo vs Ego. What's the size of the battlefield? Same planet?

What if Solaris is there? Rules don't assign a different default battlefield to different tiers, right? And if Unicron joins in? We assume they all start 0.5km away from each other on a planet somewhere?

Oh my.
You're not talking about adjusting for tier, you're talking about adjusting for size... which is a very different thing. No one's trying to make battles impossible for any character after all.

But it doesn't really matter. You can believe me or not, that's up to you. I chimed in because I had a relevant memory and opinion of something you and carv were talking about. What you guys do with that info is up to you, you can go back and forth endlessly or spend 60 seconds PMing Pr and ask him if I'm telling the truth... whichever you prefer.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You guys wanna break it down, some?
It's all about the battlefield and whether Supes flying to the sun during a fight constitutes self BFR. I remembered you saying after OWAW that Supes wasn't allowed to take off to the sun to sundip or drag his opponent there to beat on him while sundipped because it would technically be self BFR so I chimed in and said he wasn't allowed to do that. Saint doesn't seem to believe me though, so can you clarify whether or not such is the case?

Originally posted by -Pr-
You guys wanna break it down, some?

If the battlefield is not defined (as most threads aren't)....

What constitutes the size of the battlefield? For example, why can't Superman fly to the Sun, or, in this case, fly Thor to the Sun?

It would literally mean no time at all for him to fly there and back, particularly as the thread and rules don't stip a field size. Planetary distances aren't exactly a problem for heralds at this level, after all. Surfer could cross it in the blink of an eye, as could Glads, Superman, GL, etc ...

Is there even a sun in a featureless environment? I know sunlight will be available for the purposes of not depowering Superman, but that doesn't mean there is an actual Star around, otherwise the environment isn't featureless mmm

Originally posted by Bentley
Is there even a sun in a featureless environment? I know sunlight will be available for the purposes of not depowering Superman, but that doesn't mean there is an actual Star around, otherwise the environment isn't featureless mmm

The battlefield morphs to accommodate them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The battlefield morphs to accommodate them.

As I said, it morphed so sunlight is available so Superman is not depowered. That doesn't require an actual star around.

This doesn't really solve anything to the point you are both trying to make, but I actually wondered if there were suns in a featureless enviornment battle before so I thought it was a point to be made there.

Originally posted by Bentley
As I said, it morphed so sunlight is available so Superman is not depowered. That doesn't require an actual star around.

This doesn't really solve anything to the point you are both trying to make, but I actually wondered if there were suns in a featureless enviornment battle before so I thought it was a point to be made there.
That's actually an interesting thought. Hell, would it even be possible for someone to leave a featureless environment that morphed to accommodate them and that they were bound by the rules to? Seems like after a certain point Supes might start flying away from the planet but then like in a cartoon every time he turns around he's still the same distance from the ground lol. Obviously that's too ridiculous to be the case, but it's a funny thought lol

You know, it might be good to get clarification about the general fundamentals of the battlefield. For instance, phil said the featureless plain doesn't exist on Marvel or DC Earth in a way that seemed to imply that he considered it to be a barren planet(if I misunderstanding that though phil, please forive me), does anyone know if the mods have mentioned if that's the case? I remember at one point(before the featureless plain) it seemed like the battlefield was supposed to be a large arena with spectators to encourage the heroes to act like heroes while allowing the villains to act like villains. If it's a never ending featureless plain without anyone else on it, does that mean that heroes don't sweat any kind of collateral damage to the planet?

Originally posted by Bentley
As I said, it morphed so sunlight is available so Superman is not depowered. That doesn't require an actual star around.

This doesn't really solve anything to the point you are both trying to make, but I actually wondered if there were suns in a featureless enviornment battle before so I thought it was a point to be made there.

So it comes from a sun lamp that is powerful enough to power Superman up.

Which he can push Thor into.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You know, it might be good to get clarification about the general fundamentals of the battlefield. For instance, phil said the featureless plain doesn't exist on Marvel or DC Earth in a way that seemed to imply that he considered it to be a barren planet(if I misunderstanding that though phil, please forive me), does anyone know if the mods have mentioned if that's the case? I remember at one point(before the featureless plain) it seemed like the battlefield was supposed to be a large arena with spectators to encourage the heroes to act like heroes while allowing the villains to act like villains. If it's a never ending featureless plain without anyone else on it, does that mean that heroes don't sweat any kind of collateral damage to the planet?

....you COULD spend 60 secs and read the forum rules....?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....you COULD spend 60 secs and read the forum rules....?
I did, they said characters aren't allowed to leave the battlefield and describe the battlefield as a flat featureless plain. Ergo if they were to leave that flat featureless plane and go to the sun, they'd be leaving the battlefield.

Bada and Galan are free to weigh in, but for me, a featureless environment was what was decided to make the arena as fair as possible to both sides. If, say, Cyclops was fighting Wolverine, the presence of buildings and civilians would hamper Cyclops far more than it would Wolverine, so a featureless environment levels the playing field.

In this featureless environment there's still sunlight (and a sun if you really want there to be one, sure), but no, you can't fly to the sun if you're arguing Superman. Why? Because we saw on more than one occasion that Superman starts rapidly amping the closer he gets to the sun. It's a way of saving us from having to do with Superman what was done with Sentry and Hulk.

Technically, Superman could grab his opponent and yeet them in to the sun, sure, but Superman would never do that, so it's really a moot point imo.

Nightcrawler doesn't self-bfr when he teleports during a fight. He might pass through a hell-dimension, sure, but he's still ending his teleport inside the arena. It's not the same as teleporting back to the mansion and asking Beast for a laser gun or something else to help him in his fight.

For characters like say, Magneto, there's the "normal" amount of metal in the ground that there would be on Earth. Even if there are no large bodies of water nearby, there's enough water-vapour in the air that Aquaman/Namor doesn't get dehydrated easily. Geo-Force can still call on lava etc.

It's about having the bare minimum in the vaguest way possible rather than getting in to finer details.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I did, they said characters aren't allowed to leave the battlefield and describe the battlefield as a flat featureless plain. Ergo if they were to leave that flat featureless plane and go to the sun, they'd be leaving the battlefield.

So as per your 'reading' of the rules, when they hover above the plain, they have left it? As soon as Surfer steps onto his board, he's left the plain?

Nightcrawler leaves it?

What if Superman angles himself so Thor punches him towards the Sun? He hasn't left it on purpose - it's Thor who propelled him. Then he slowly counts down in his head so that he can return to the battlefield in 'good time, under his own power'?

Good reading

Originally posted by -Pr-
Technically, Superman could grab his opponent and yeet them in to the sun, sure, but Superman would never do that, so it's really a moot point imo.

Thanks.

Injustice Superman wins.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Bada and Galan are free to weigh in, but for me, a featureless environment was what was decided to make the arena as fair as possible to both sides. If, say, Cyclops was fighting Wolverine, the presence of buildings and civilians would hamper Cyclops far more than it would Wolverine, so a featureless environment levels the playing field.

In this featureless environment there's still sunlight (and a sun if you really want there to be one, sure), but no, you can't fly to the sun if you're arguing Superman. Why? Because we saw on more than one occasion that Superman starts rapidly amping the closer he gets to the sun. It's a way of saving us from having to do with Superman what was done with Sentry and Hulk.

Technically, Superman could grab his opponent and yeet them in to the sun, sure, but Superman would never do that, so it's really a moot point imo.

Nightcrawler doesn't self-bfr when he teleports during a fight. He might pass through a hell-dimension, sure, but he's still ending his teleport inside the arena. It's not the same as teleporting back to the mansion and asking Beast for a laser gun or something else to help him in his fight.

For characters like say, Magneto, there's the "normal" amount of metal in the ground that there would be on Earth. Even if there are no large bodies of water nearby, there's enough water-vapour in the air that Aquaman/Namor doesn't get dehydrated easily. Geo-Force can still call on lava etc.

It's about having the bare minimum in the vaguest way possible rather than getting in to finer details.

As for the rest of the post, so its there to stop what I term 616 Superman from being too powerful, which is also OK.

My question is - what is the battlefield size? Ignoring the Sun for now - Earth (or this planet) can still be a pretty big place. It would be nothing for a Surfer, or a GL, or a Flash, or a Superman, to crisscross.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So as per your 'reading' of the rules, when they hover above the plain, they have left it? As soon as Surfer steps onto his board, he's left the plain?

Nightcrawler leaves it?

What if Superman angles himself so Thor punches him towards the Sun? He hasn't left it on purpose - it's Thor who propelled him. Then he slowly counts down in his head so that he can return to the battlefield in 'good time, under his own power'?

Good reading
No, you seem to be strawmanning everything I'm saying. But it doesn't really matter at this point since Pr just clarified that Supes can't go to the sun. I mean he absolutely left room for Galan and Bada to change things up, but he certainly killed the premise you seem to be trying to push in regards to the idea of Supes not being allowed to fly to the sun being a totally unreasonable stance...

Originally posted by darthgoober
No, you seem to be strawmanning everything I'm saying. But it doesn't really matter at this point since Pr just clarified that Supes can't go to the sun. I mean he absolutely left room for Galan and Bada to change things up, but he certainly killed the premise you seem to be trying to push in regards to the idea of Supes not being allowed to fly to the sun being a totally unreasonable stance...

Though it's certainly possible for Injustice Superman to throw someone there.

And certainly possible for Superman to get himself punched there, then drift off in that direction lol.

Forum rule:


Wanna bet how quickly a sundipped Supes can fly back?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Though it's certainly possible for Injustice Superman to throw someone there.
Sure is, I'd never claim otherwise. Hell it's technically allowed for mainstreme Supes to throw them there... he's just not allowed to take them himself. By the same token I'd support the idea of Hulk punching Thing to Texas for a BFR win, but I wouldn't support the idea that he grabbed Thing, carried him to Texas, and left him there while Hulk jumped back, because that would be self BFR.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure is, I'd never claim otherwise. Hell it's technically allowed for mainstreme Supes to throw them there... he's just not allowed to take them himself. By the same token, I'd support the idea of Hulk punching Thing to Texas for a BFR win, but I wouldn't support the idea that he grabbed Thing, carried him to Texas, and left him there, because that would be self BFR.

And with technicalities, then Superman is technically allowed to get himself punched out to space, where the ozone layer stops filtering all that UV light.....

Edit: wait - now statelines is BFR?

Whichever class 100 punches the other first gets the bfr.

It's always been this way on the forum, obviously.

And they better be careful when they try to leap back... They jump too high... Then its self bfr.

Thin edges.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And with technicalities, then Superman is technically allowed to get himself punched out to space, where the ozone layer stops filtering all that UV light.....

Edit: wait - now statelines is BFR?
I would consider far less than state lines as BFR for the most part if you're talking about one character just strait up disengaging from combat(which is different than maneuvering around the battlefield while remaining engaged). Illyana could BFR someone like Cyclops just by teleporting him a couple of miles away IMO.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thanks.

Injustice Superman wins.



As for the rest of the post, so its there to stop what I term 616 Superman from being too powerful, which is also OK.

My question is - what is the battlefield size? Ignoring the Sun for now - Earth (or this planet) can still be a pretty big place. It would be nothing for a Surfer, or a GL, or a Flash, or a Superman, to crisscross.

Vaguely Earth-sized with comparable gravity.

I do need to clarify, though: Sundipping/Extreme amping needs to be allowed as a stipulation. It's not on by default.

Thanks

Originally posted by -Pr-
Vaguely Earth-sized with comparable gravity.

I do need to clarify, though: Sundipping/Extreme amping needs to be allowed as a stipulation. It's not on by default.
Hey Pr if it's not actually Earth, are there people on the planet? I mean like do the heroes have to worry about collateral damage, civilian casualties, etc when it comes to acting in character?

Yeah, because what's stopping Superman from pushing the entire battlefield (thus never leaving it) into the Sun?

He pushed poor Mogo in after all.

No civilians unless otherwise stated, no.

*Not a 'mod ruling' or w/e... Just me talking*

For whatever reason, I always pictured the default featureless battlefield as a place similar to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in DBZ:
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperbolic_Time_Chamber

Essentially a void-space that has no real defining features/borders. Only difference is that the landscape here *can* morph to accommodate a character's particular powerset, IF that character's powerset is reliant on certain environmental features being present in order to operate properly. That way a character like, say, Geo-Force wouldn't be rendered powerless in the default environment... That would sort of defeat the purpose of a versus match where the characters are presumed to be operating at their best.

srug

Holy f*ck, it's like people are just posting here for the first time. My God, my banning finger is getting twitchy...g_twitch

SCALES PROVOLONE IS A WANTON CRIMINAL AND COP ABUSER!!!

HE MAKES NO LAWS YOU ARE BOUND TO RESPECT!!!!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
SCALES PROVOLONE IS A WANTON CRIMINAL AND COP ABUSER!!!

HE MAKES NO LAWS YOU ARE BOUND TO RESPECT!!!! That cop lost his nerve. It cost him. I fought the law and I won.

Then as all mods are here, a follow up question or two.

1. Ok, we have the width/length of the battlefield (Earth sized). What about the height - how high does this 'ceiling' extend?

2. Rules only state that if a character is moved against their will,if they can come back in reasonable time, they're fine .... what's reasonable? A 10 count, 10 mins, 20 mins?

3. Last one....what if they're punched there - what's stopping Superman from being punched to the sun (against his will) then sundipping that way to come home (in reasonable time - we saw how fast he was flying last time)?

Last question is just a bit of fun, tbh.

Thought no amps are involved unless stated otherwise by the OP? Wouldn't punching him in the sun under these condition not do anything for him except keep him at normal power levels? Also, is there even a sun on this battlefield? I thought the battlefield was featureless? Nothing out there except 2 opponents going at it.

Originally posted by carver9
Thought no amps are involved unless stated otherwise by the OP? Wouldn't punching him in the sun under these condition not do anything for him except keep him at normal power levels? Also, is there even a sun on this battlefield? I thought the battlefield was featureless? Nothing out there except 2 opponents going at it.

There's a sun, on the battlefield, yes.

It would be the same way Absorbing Man for example would get stronger if he touched Mjolnir in the course of his fight with Thor. He doesn't stat at normal Creel levels.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There's a sun, on the battlefield, yes.

It would be the same way Absorbing Man for example would get stronger if he touched Mjolnir in the course of his fight with Thor. He doesn't stat at normal Creel levels.

Creel is a different case here. Rogue is different. This would be a race game. Superman vs Surfer. Superman flies to the sun, amps himself, comes back to the battlefield. Surfer teleport to star, absorbs energy, comes back... rinse and repeat. Or he could just teleport to Reeds building, grab the U.N, return, blast, over.

Originally posted by carver9
Creel is a different case here. Rogue is different. This would be a race game. Superman vs Surfer. Superman flies to the sun, amps himself, comes back to the battlefield. Surfer teleport to star, absorbs energy, comes back... rinse and repeat. Or he could just teleport to Reeds building, grab the U.N, return, blast, over.

Please read the forum rules, my posts, and Pr's posts. You've been here for like 15 years, I really don't have to hold your hand.

Originally posted by carver9
Thought no amps are involved unless stated otherwise by the OP? Wouldn't punching him in the sun under these condition not do anything for him except keep him at normal power levels? Also, is there even a sun on this battlefield? I thought the battlefield was featureless? Nothing out there except 2 opponents going at it.
Pretty sure that's not what Pr meant. Supes isn't allowed to go take himself a sundip, but if an opponent were to knock him into the sun that would be different story. The rule is against extreme amping of oneself, amping your opponent via your own stupidity is allowed lol

Originally posted by darthgoober
The rule is against extreme amping of oneself, amping your opponent via your own stupidity is allowed lol

https://i.postimg.cc/2yfb7L4d/RCO013-w.jpg

what a jest!

From god to back ally man whore. Tony Stark would have let everyone know, and Jennifer would have wanted them to know.

Originally posted by cdtm
From god to back ally man whore. Tony Stark would have let everyone know, and Jennifer would have wanted them to know.

https://i.postimg.cc/qMmK9Lyg/RCO004-1550745723.jpg

Stilt would love these.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then as all mods are here, a follow up question or two.

1. Ok, we have the width/length of the battlefield (Earth sized). What about the height - how high does this 'ceiling' extend?

2. Rules only state that if a character is moved against their will,if they can come back in reasonable time, they're fine .... what's reasonable? A 10 count, 10 mins, 20 mins?

3. Last one....what if they're punched there - what's stopping Superman from being punched to the sun (against his will) then sundipping that way to come home (in reasonable time - we saw how fast he was flying last time)?

Last question is just a bit of fun, tbh. Again, this has always been my own perception of things. Bada and Pr are welcome to chime in...

1.) Like I said earlier- I always pictured the default field without any strict borders/ceilings. Basically just a massive void realm where every character's powers are fully operational... But if we're going with an earth-sized field, then I would imagine its 'height ceiling' would be similar to earth's as well.

2.) A 10 count has been used in the past, but that is a bit too easily exploitable, imo. I can't even run from my upstairs bedroom to my downstairs living room in 10 seconds.

3.) If we assume there is a sun over the battlefield, it would be completely inaccessible to Superman for amping purposes, and it also would not hinder characters who are explicitly weak to sunlight(ie. Immortal Hulk, Vampires, etc.) Personally, I don't think there needs to be a sun physically present, but that just goes back to me likening the default field to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber:
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperbolic_Time_Chamber
ie. There's no actual sunlight in that place, but it's still fully lit. /shrug


You guys do raise some good questions, though. Like Pr said: some of this does need to be better clarified in the rules after a consensus is reached.

So with point 1 - atmospheric? This goes to characters with flight - if Surfer and Hal are zooming around in the atmosphere firing blasts at each other, one can see how easily that 'limit' would be inadvertently breached.

Because if there IS no limit...then you can see why I was originally thinking the Sun isn't self-BFR. As it would be 'upwards' from the plain. Rules never stated an upper ceiling.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So with point 1 - atmospheric? This goes to characters with flight - if Surfer and Hal are zooming around in the atmosphere firing blasts at each other, one can see how easily that 'limit' would be inadvertently breached.

Because if there IS no limit...then you can see why I was originally thinking the Sun isn't self-BFR. As it would be 'upwards' from the plain. Rules never stated an upper ceiling. If we're going with the earth-sized field, then yeah, I would assume the uppermost atmosphere would be the ceiling.

Right, but again: that presumes there is a physical sun over the field(as mentioned, there doesn't necessarily *have* to be), and also that the sun would be accessible to the combatants.

These are all valid points, though.

Rules-
Takes place on an uninhabited Earth
Bfr is allowed
All unworthy Thor feats included