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The Dark Lord of the Sith has the ring. Everyone in Middle Earth wants it.


He's holed up in Helms Deep, with an army of storm troopers.

Sooner or later, Stormtroopers will run out of ammo.

And sooner or later, Vader will get assassinated by Nazguls.

All of Middle Earth? Like ALL of it?

Originally posted by cdtm
Everyone in Middle Earth wants it.

How large is this army of stormtroopers? What equipment do they have? They would be facing billions of opponents here so they would need to be uber stacked

Could the OP specify on Vader's forces.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sooner or later, Stormtroopers will run out of ammo.

And sooner or later, Vader will get assassinated by Nazguls.

I don't think the Nazgul would pose a threat. I'm thinking more of The Army of the Dead as the real trump card here.

Originally posted by juggerman
What equipment do they have?

Their standard equipment = E-11 Blaster Rifles.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I don't think the Nazgul would pose a threat. I'm thinking more of The Army of the Dead as the real trump card here.

Army of the Dead would have no interest in the ring, though.

Nazguls can keep coming back till they do the job. And eventually, they would. They have the spells of their own... not to mention that Vader's suit would run out of energy... and he wouldn't be able to keep sustaining himself with the Force forever.

Originally posted by cdtm
The Dark Lord of the Sith has the ring. Everyone in Middle Earth wants it.


He's holed up in Helms Deep, with an army of storm troopers.

You need to specify on Vader's army and their equipment.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Army of the Dead would have no interest in the ring, though.

Nazguls can keep coming back till they do the job. And eventually, they would. They have the spells of their own... not to mention that Vader's suit would run out of energy... and he wouldn't be able to keep sustaining himself with the Force forever.

That's fair.

We'll see how the OP specifies the battle conditions.

I mean, the elves can just sit and wait for vader to die of old age or something.

Well, I think it would be unfair for there to be no time-limit, as for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by juggerman
How large is this army of stormtroopers? What equipment do they have? They would be facing billions of opponents here so they would need to be uber stacked

Let's say as many ground troops as would be required for waging a war on a single planet.


Throw in Tie air support and ATST's, too. No orbital bombardment.

Well it would take thousands of Storm troopers to hit one enemy so there's that.

Originally posted by cdtm
Let's say as many ground troops as would be required for waging a war on a single planet.


Throw in Tie air support and ATST's, too. No orbital bombardment.

What's Vader objective here and for how long is this campaign?

Hold out as long as he could. He wins if everyone else dies.

He fails, then.

Okay, an issue here is that The Empire operated much differently from the Republic in terms of military campaigns.

Unlike the Republic, which actually relied on planetary invasion for success, the Empire used orbital bombardment to obliterate planets and systems. There was not such a thing as planetary invasion and surface forces were only used to aprehend important Rebels, secure bases and minor stuff.

Given the fact that the OP has ruled orbital bombardment out, then it would be logical for the Empire to change tactics and actually plan a military invasion in where prior reconnaissance was performed.

If the Empire sends 10K storm troopers (which it perfectly can), maybe some hundred AT-STs and a couple squadrons of T-fighters, Vader can decimate LOTR planet.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay, an issue here is that The Empire operated much differently from the Republic in terms of military campaigns.

Unlike the Republic, which actually relied on planetary invasion for success, the Empire used orbital bombardment to obliterate planets and systems. There was not such a thing as planetary invasion and surface forces were only used to aprehend important Rebels, secure bases and minor stuff.

Given the fact that the OP has ruled orbital bombardment out, then it would be logical for the Empire to change tactics and actually plan a military invasion in where prior reconnaissance was performed.

If the Empire sends 10K storm troopers (which it perfectly can), maybe some hundred AT-STs and a couple squadrons of T-fighters, Vader can decimate LOTR planet.

Smaug and the other dragons says high.

Sauron alone would mind **** any and all storm troopers without trying.

Originally posted by SquallX
Smaug and the other dragons says high.

Sauron alone would mind **** any and all storm troopers without trying.

This is LOTR not Hobbit, learn to read before bringing in your biases.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If the Empire sends 10K storm troopers (which it perfectly can), maybe some hundred AT-STs and a couple squadrons of T-fighters, Vader can decimate LOTR planet.

Stormtroopers got their asses handed to them by Ewoks, I remind you.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Stormtroopers got their asses handed to them by Ewoks, I remind you.

Guerilla tactics where meant to allow smaller forces to face much bigger ones.

Sure, if the Elfs and the LOTR legions were to turn to the forests and play hide and seek, they will have a better chance.

In the open fields and castles they will be decimated.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay, an issue here is that The Empire operated much differently from the Republic in terms of military campaigns.

Unlike the Republic, which actually relied on planetary invasion for success, the Empire used orbital bombardment to obliterate planets and systems. There was not such a thing as planetary invasion and surface forces were only used to aprehend important Rebels, secure bases and minor stuff.

Given the fact that the OP has ruled orbital bombardment out, then it would be logical for the Empire to change tactics and actually plan a military invasion in where prior reconnaissance was performed.

If the Empire sends 10K storm troopers (which it perfectly can), maybe some hundred AT-STs and a couple squadrons of T-fighters, Vader can decimate LOTR planet.

Where you getting that from? Based on the hoth invasion as well as storm troopers in solo, it seems the ground infantry is a pretty big part of empire take over tactics.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
When has Sauron mind raped anyone in LOTR?

Who said Vader would wear the ring? If Bilbo was able to resist the ring, then Vader makes it his dick piercing!

Most force users are immune to mental manipulation; Vader certainly is.



Want to note though that Force users aren't immune to mental manipulation - Jedi Masters and Sith Lords just have a high-resistance to it.

Mara Jade, one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in history, was still mentally-manipulated in mid-fight by Darth Caedus, when he tricked her by creating a Force Illusion of Ben Skywalker's face over his own, in order to momentarily distract and kill her.

Originally posted by SquallX
Smaug and the other dragons says high.

Sauron alone would mind **** any and all storm troopers without trying.

What "other dragons"...?

Smaug was the last.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211


Want to note though that Force users aren't immune to mental manipulation - Jedi Masters and Sith Lords just have a high-resistance to it.

Mara Jade, one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in history, was still mentally-manipulated in mid-fight by Darth Caedus, when he tricked her by creating a Force Illusion of Ben Skywalker's face over his own, in order to momentarily distract and kill her.

That's outside canon however.

In current canon, there are several statements that they are, just like certain creatures like Java, etc.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Where you getting that from? Based on the hoth invasion as well as storm troopers in solo, it seems the ground infantry is a pretty big part of empire take over tactics.

The Empire never attempted to conquer planets, for no planet's goverment in their sane judgement would declare war on the Empire.

The Empire used small infantry platoons to supervise the planets or to fight the rebels.

But large armies where never deployed to force a governments or planets into submission, at least not after the creation of the Star Destroyers.

the fact that storm troopers can't shoot straight gives lotrverse the easy victory

Originally posted by cdtm
The Dark Lord of the Sith has the ring. Everyone in Middle Earth wants it.


He's holed up in Helms Deep, with an army of storm troopers.

This OP needs far, far more detail added to it.

We need the numbers and composition for the Stormtrooper corps for one. What equipment and supplies we are working with, logistics, which Legion. There's a lot of variables both from Canon and Legends to consider here. I mean even on Endor there were variables far more than just "Stormtroopers with standard armor and E-11's" as StiltmanFTW suggested. The Empire is known for deploying prefabricated bases on the surface. which means that they can start to support far more variety and heavier options than standard E-11's very quickly, even in the absence of orbital supply drops from Star Destroyers. This also brings to the forefront the possibility of vehicles such as Walkers and Tanks, even Fighters.

Removing the obvious PIS, while I don't believe Stormtroopers are as skilled as Elves or as accurate, they are supposed to be well trained and very accurate (Read Obi's comments about the Jawa Sandcrawler's battle damage in ANH.)

With the removal of Star Destroyers from the fight, and the subsequent Orbital Bombardment options from said ships, that still leaves surgical strikes from the likes of ships like TIE/sa Bombers, Alpha-class Xg-1 Star Wings, and Missile Boats, or even TIE Heavy Bombers, and Scimitar Assault Bombers.

Originally posted by cdtm
Let's say as many ground troops as would be required for waging a war on a single planet.


Throw in Tie air support and ATST's, too. No orbital bombardment.

He'd crush them.

The LotR armies are going to break in fear once the Stormtoopers begin shooting them down. Add in TIE fighters and AT-STs as well.... Yeah, they're toast. I mean, shit, a few TIE fighters can easily lay waste to entire kingdoms.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lonuhaQu1y1qabfx1o1_500.gif

vin

Good luck getting a TIE with that...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lonuhaQu1y1qabfx1o1_500.gif

vin

Yeah, except lets see anyone in Middle Earth set that kind of trap, please. Most of the armies of Middle Earth arn't known for that kind of thing ever. They fight like medieval armies do. Even the Elves. The Last Alliance and Helms Deep proves this.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/cf9e98b716fa48210e33befe1b5c8bc3/tenor.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://media1.tenor.com/images/cf9e98b716fa48210e33befe1b5c8bc3/tenor.gif

Again, can we see the forces of Middle Earth set traps like this please? Especially at the scale needed to topple an AT-ST.

Also, while I'm here, are we also forgetting that AT-ST's are far from the only ground vehicles available here? Shall I list them all? There's quite a lot.

They operate catapults, trebuches and ballistas just fine.

More than enough to smoke useless AT-STs.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Shall I list them all?

Why should you? They're not getting them here.

Cdtm had to be begged to add AT-STs and TIE fighters, lol.

TIEs would be a threat, if stormpilots could hit anything.

Rangers would sneak past Empire's forces like this:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_leh8i0HTGf1qedqfdo1_250.gif

Robbing a cripple would be even easier.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
They operate catapults, trebuches and ballistas just fine.

More than enough to smoke useless AT-STs.

All of which are used against cities as siege weapons, and none are used to attack moving targets.

A stone wall is not an AT-ST.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why should you? They're not getting them here.

Cdtm had to be begged to add AT-STs and TIE fighters, lol.

TIEs would be a threat, if stormpilots could hit anything.

Because the OP is so open it never restricted anything besides Star Destroyers. In fact, the first one to say the only thing the stormies get is standard armor and E-11s in the entire thread was you, not Cdtm.

Original post by Cdtm:
Originally posted by cdtm
The Dark Lord of the Sith has the ring. Everyone in Middle Earth wants it.

He's holed up in Helms Deep, with an army of storm troopers.

Literally the next few posts were both Juggerman and Josh asking for clarification of Vader's forces.

Originally posted by juggerman
How large is this army of stormtroopers? What equipment do they have? They would be facing billions of opponents here so they would need to be uber stacked

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Could the OP specify on Vader's forces.

And in response, the restriction to E-11's and standard armor only was infact, you. Not Cdtm.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Their standard equipment = E-11 Blaster Rifles.

So, nice try, but no die :P

Originally posted by cdtm
Let's say as many ground troops as would be required for waging a war on a single planet.

Throw in Tie air support and ATST's, too. No orbital bombardment.

Cdtm's very next post does not throw out restrictions to Stormtrooper equipment. He does specify vehicles. However, my main point was that there's far more options to the Empire than a cavalcade of chickenwalkers and standard E-11s as you suggested.

That said, this does change considerably what the Empire's tactics will be, considering they are lacking a full compliment of even what a single ISDI landing force would bring to the table, nevermind a personal retiune of Vader's 501st (Death Squadron/Vader's Fist) which would actially be an ISDII's landing force. Several if we go full balls to the wall.

LOTR is doomed.

Although Stilt has a good point, the LOTR has shown no Guerilla tactics.

Besides, most battles would be fought in open areas where Guerilla tactics are useless.

Vader would take the battles to the heart of Mordor and force Sauron to pay allegiance to the Emperor.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
LOTR is doomed.

Although Stilt has a good point, the LOTR has shown no Guerilla tactics.

Besides, most battles would be fought in open areas where Guerilla tactics are useless.

Vader would take the battles to the heart of Mordor and force Sauron to pay allegiance to the Emperor.



You actually believe Vader can withstand Sauron powers while Vader holds the ring?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
LOTR is doomed.

Although Stilt has a good point, the LOTR has shown no Guerilla tactics.

Besides, most battles would be fought in open areas where Guerilla tactics are useless.

Vader would take the battles to the heart of Mordor and force Sauron to pay allegiance to the Emperor.

Originally posted by SquallX


You actually believe Vader can withstand Sauron powers while Vader holds the ring?

Yeah, I'm going to say that while Militarily the Empire holds all the cards, Vader would have to be very, very stupid to try to confront Sauron, on home turf, while wearing the ring. Thats so far daft, he'd be mentally anihilated. Especially considering he runs on self hatred and pain as Suit Vader, and pretty much on paranoia and fear even as human Vader.

If Anakin were to confront the Barad Dur garrison, he'd have to do it either without the Ring, or by not wearing it. The moment he puts it on within eyesight of Sauron, he's going to get wrecked.

Originally posted by SquallX


You actually believe Vader can withstand Sauron powers while Vader holds the ring?

Again, where did the OP said Vader had to wear the Ring?

Also, do you even know how the One Ring works? The One Ring is able to control the users of the other Rings, but the wearer of the One Ring is controlled by nobody!

The One Ring doesn't enable Sauron to control he who wears it!

What the One Ring does do is to corrupt and turn the wearer into a tyrant.

In this case Vader wouldn't be affected.

You are jelous; you envy The Dark Side of the Force.

Yep. It doesn't make you a servant of Sauron, it corrupts you. Well, Vader is already corrupt. It may make him more power hungry I suppose, but that truly wouldn't matter in the end.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He fails, then.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
the LOTR has shown no Guerilla tactics.

Repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it true, y'know.

What do you think Faramir's been doing his whole life? Confronting Mumakils head on...?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it true, y'know.

What do you think Faramir's been doing his whole life? Confronting Mumakils head on...?

Lie? Common Stilt, don't get personal with me.

I don't recall a single LOTR movie in where advance Guerilla tactics, as the ones the Rebels have desplayed, are shown.

Feel free to bring clips of such; refresh my memory.

Rudimentary tactics used by retarded Ewoks cannot be called "advanced", no matter how high you get.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Again, where did the OP said Vader had to wear the Ring?

Also, do you even know how the One Ring works? The One Ring is able to control the users of the other Rings, but the wearer of the One Ring is controlled by nobody!

The One Ring doesn't enable Sauron to control he who wears it!

What the One Ring does do is to corrupt and turn the wearer into a tyrant.

In this case Vader wouldn't be affected.

You are jelous; you envy The Dark Side of the Force.


To clarify, the ring is in his possession, but he isn't necessarily wearing it. He's simply defending it from competing Middle Earth threats.

But... but... but!

Outsmarting Stormtroopers can never be easy!!!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-21-2015/6jkDXe.gif

If everyone stopped feeding the troll he would go away.

You mean the threadstarter, Josh or both?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2-5. Not a single book or novel has stated that those wearing the One Ring will be mentally manipulated by Sauron!


You know this the MOVIE vs forum right?

Originally posted by steverules_2
You know this the MOVIE vs forum right?

The movies certainly state none, so I assume he is bringing book material.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The movies certainly state none

https://tinyurl.com/y2omt7po