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Personally I back World Forger on this one

Infinity Gauntlet is universal. WF is beyond multiversal.

The outcome isn't hard to determine.

Thanos wins. Creating something does not make you all-powerful. I can build a hydrogen bomb, but that does not make me myself a city destroyer.

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
Thanos wins. Creating something does not make you all-powerful. I can build a hydrogen bomb, but that does not make me myself a city destroyer. Horrible analogy. Creating a f*cking bomb piece by piece is not at all comparable to creating entire universes, dimensions, and possible timelines from nothingness every time you swing your hammer.

Obviously you guys will go out of your way to lowball DC whenever you can, so this isn't a fact I expect you to admit. I'm sure guys like carver and Alberto will be here soon to give you a thumbs up, so at least you have that.

Originally posted by LordGod
Infinity Gauntlet is universal. WF is beyond multiversal.

The outcome isn't hard to determine.

Originally posted by LordGod
Horrible analogy. Creating a f*cking bomb piece by piece is not at all comparable to creating entire universes, dimensions, and possible timelines from nothingness every time you swing your hammer.

Obviously you guys will go out of your way to lowball DC whenever you can, so this isn't a fact I expect you to admit. I'm sure guys like carver and Alberto will be here soon to give you a thumbs up, so at least you have that. Creating something with a hammer swing makes him all powerful? Did that help him when Superman put him on his ass?

Ah, you're still trying to ride the "Superman beet himz, so itz a low feet!!!" train huh?

Have fun with that butthurt.

Originally posted by LordGod
Ah, you're still trying to ride the "Superman beet himz, so itz a low feet!!!" train huh?

Have fun with that butthurt. lol. How predictable you Superman fans are. Are you implying that Superman was more powerful than WF because he beat him? Yet you think WF wins here, which means Superman is more powerful than both WF and Thanos with the IG? Laughable.

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
Thanos wins. Creating something does not make you all-powerful. I can build a hydrogen bomb, but that does not make me myself a city destroyer.

You are just stupid, there is no denying that now, that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read from you and that’s saying something.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You are just stupid, there is no denying that now, that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read from you and that’s saying something. SMH. Reported but for all the good it will do.

WF

World Forger should win but JBL is right to a degree. Y'all are blowing the shit out of that feat

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
lol. How predictable you Superman fans are. Are you implying that Superman was more powerful than WF because he beat him? Yet you think WF wins here, which means Superman is more powerful than both WF and Thanos with the IG? Laughable.

That actually makes sense. Thanos wins.

There is no multiverse destroying collateral.

Originally posted by LordGod
Ah, you're still trying to ride the "Superman beet himz, so itz a low feet!!!" train huh?

Have fun with that butthurt.

So is Sundipped Superman's single punch greater than this entire assault?

https://imgur.com/a/tD5MhOt

Originally posted by TheHulkster
So is Sundipped Superman's single punch greater than this entire assault?

https://imgur.com/a/tD5MhOt Yes. Stay mad and keep denying reality.

WF.

SquallX,

I was desputing the last two lines of the post right before mine.

Superman beating you When everything is on the line isn't a low showing. It's just the way things are.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
So is Sundipped Superman's single punch greater than this entire assault?

https://imgur.com/a/tD5MhOt
Well yes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well yes.

Originally posted by TheHulkster


Well, you're wrong as usual.

Heck him flying was felt across all dimensions. Just flying.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-98642a6afd9ff773220be14053182a34

The sixth dimension was trembling by just his approach.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-729627c3ccc3692a2014a33554a43c54

Calling it less than multiversal is frankly trolling.

To my fellow Marvel fans, just get the **** over it already, the shit happened. It's a dumbass feat but it happened. DC backed itself into a corner because now half of the justice league is somehow multiversal beings but next week a bank robber is gonna manage to get past them lol.

Or barring that, an even BIGGER threat will come, from the super hyper outerverses and then Superman will bootybump a blue sun and one shot him.

All y'all are doing by even arguing this feat is giving DC fans fap material. Superman and WF win everything let it die and stop making these one sided threads.

Is World Forger above Galactus level?

Yes, easily.

Yeah? By an amount of multitudes that we probably can't fathom.

World Forger true state> Life Bringer Galactus> World Forger in the 3rd dimension>Normal Galactus

Life Bringer Galactus can't create a universe, World Forger in 3rd dimension can.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Calling it less than multiversal is frankly trolling.

The book's editor is trolling?

Well interviews are inadmissible when they contradict what happened on panel.

Which we see as Superman being felt across EVERY dimension.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
The book's editor is trolling?
Going to editors to contradict a crystal clear feat IS trolling.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well interviews are inadmissible when they contradict what happened on panel.

Which we see as Superman being felt across EVERY dimension.

It doesn't contradict what's on panel. It actually supports it. And it's not an opinion being given on power levels or who would win a fight. It's a clarification of what happens in the book.

How is feeling something across every dimension the same as destroying a multiverse?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Life Bringer Galactus can't create a universe, World Forger in 3rd dimension can. Ewing had stated that Lifebringer was as powerful as the infinite multiverse

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Ewing had stated that Lifebringer was as powerful as the infinite multiverse

scan me bud

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which of those entities can create a multiverse ex Nihilo?

Genis-Vell recreated the Multiverse.

and with that statement here comes the universal-multiversal eternity debate again

it's like the same debates been playing over and over, kmc is a flat circle

Originally posted by MrMind
scan me bud Imgur.com/a/k4hynQc

Originally posted by TheHulkster
It doesn't contradict what's on panel. It actually supports it. And it's not an opinion being given on power levels or who would win a fight. It's a clarification of what happens in the book.

How is feeling something across every dimension the same as destroying a multiverse?

His flight alone was being felt across every dimension. If my walk to work is powerful enough to be felt all across the world.....a punch from me is going to be more powerful than that, no?

Bait thread. Same old people using same old tactics.


Question for those who are not actively trolling though. Has WF portrayed any offensive abilities? I've only spot read that book

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His flight alone was being felt across every dimension. If my walk to work is powerful enough to be felt all across the world.....a punch from me is going to be more powerful than that, no?

His flight effort is more akin to a full sprint. Vibrations from a full sprint can be felt across an an entire track. Doesn't mean you can destroy the track by stomping on it. Not a good analogy at all

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Bait thread. Same old people using same old tactics.


Question for those who are not actively trolling though. Has WF portrayed any offensive abilities? I've only spot read that book

He beats up a weakened Superman.

what's the offensive abilities of TOAA or Living Tribunal?

before derpy people start saying "hur dur off topic", this question is totally relevant.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That's it?



If ALL he has done offensively is forge worlds then it's a none feat for Clark to best him.


I think the argument is that he still has to put massive amounts of energy into making universes

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That's it?



If ALL he has done offensively is forge worlds then it's a none feat for Clark to best him. Right. Because creating infinite universes, dimensions, and hyper time just isn't enough. We need to see WF tussling with random villains before he can be properly gauged. lmao.

If only marvel characters had to abide by the same standards as DC characters....

Originally posted by LordGod
Right. Because creating infinite universes, dimensions, and hyper time just isn't enough. We need to see WF tussling with random villains before he can be properly gauged. lmao.

If only marvel characters had to abide by the same standards as DC characters....

right? what are TOAA and LT's combat feats? what a bunch of chump change

Originally posted by TheHulkster
His flight effort is more akin to a full sprint. Vibrations from a full sprint can be felt across an an entire track. Doesn't mean you can destroy the track by stomping on it. Not a good analogy at all

Well if the vibration can be felt all around the world in every country....I'm pretty sure that yes, I can indeed destroy the track by stomping it.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I think the argument is that he still has to put massive amounts of energy into making universes

I get the argument but this is a versus forum. feats supercede all and creating universes is impressive but this is a fight not a basket weaving contest.



Originally posted by LordGod
Right. Because creating infinite universes, dimensions, and hyper time just isn't enough. We need to see WF tussling with random villains before he can be properly gauged.

Yes we do. You can create all the universes u want but if I one shot you, you really ain't shit (combat feat wise)


Originally posted by MrMind
what's the offensive abilities of TOAA or Living Tribunal?

before derpy people start saying "hur dur off topic", this question is totally relevant.

It's not. TOAA is a writer Avatar. We don't need to see offensive feats because he is writing the story. Even if he were to lose it's because he's willing it so. He's a plot contrivance.

We've already seen LT win and lose. He has caps.


Not trying to low-ball you guys DC circle jerk. Question has nothing to do with LT or TOAA or the Presence or whoever you can bring up to throw the question off topic. I just was curious if he had any combat feats...no need to get butt hurt

Originally posted by MrMind
right? what are TOAA and LT's combat feats? what a bunch of chump change

LT has his confrontation with IG Warlock.

Wait, so oneshotting a being who can create multiverses "ain't shit" because he doesn't have a bunch of combat feats? Because apparently combat feats are now the one and only way to measure a character's power. lol

Do you people even listen to yourself? We get it, you hate Superman and don't like the implications of him stomping a multiversal being. Jfc.

How many combat feats does TOAA have lol, Some people just consistently posting stupity. And this WF didn't have any combat feat route has been argued not a long ago. But somehow it has been consistently repeating by some people

Originally posted by Sin I AM



It's not. TOAA is a writer Avatar. We don't need to see offensive feats because he is writing the story. Even if he were to lose it's because he's willing it so. He's a plot contrivance.

We've already seen LT win and lose. He has caps.



TOAA is not writer avatar anymore, check out infinity ending by starlin, he got absorbed Thanos W/Regulator in combat

if we judge LT solely on combat, he has many losses

Originally posted by LordGod
Right. Because creating infinite universes, dimensions, and hyper time just isn't enough. We need to see WF tussling with random villains before he can be properly gauged. lmao.

If only marvel characters had to abide by the same standards as DC characters....

I can't speak for anyone else but, for me it came down to Superman never coming close to that level of punching power after going all out (even with a sun dip), and I never saw a Multiverse being destroyed. I'm still wondering why the members of the Justice League weren't turned into dust the moment that Superman's fist made contact with the World Forger's face. I can easily accept the fact that he did do this if the writers left no space for a doubt. However, there are some pretty big spaces. Then there's the idea that Superman was operating above the IG, which could wave away a miillion stars like a child destroying a sand castle. World Forger has no combat feats. Why didn't he blink Lex Luthor out of existence? If he were as powerful as the Anti-Monitor of COIE, I have yet to see it, and even COIE Anti-Monitor was beaten by the Flash. I can't see Thanos with the IG having any problems with the Speed Force. There are several reasons, and not because Awww it's DC and not Marvel. Well at least from where I stand.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Combat feats are the only way to measure a characters power in combat yes.



I don't think even Alberto would make such a derpy statement

You think combat feats are entirely irrelevant to vs battles? Tell me your joking. Feats and combat is a case by case basis. If the two is in the same ballpark and both have destroyed universes we have to resort to combat to come to the end conclusion

Sin, yeah no. I disagree with that. Feats can help gauge by a lot

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You think combat feats are entirely irrelevant to vs battles? Tell me your joking. Feats and combat is a case by case basis. If the two is in the same ballpark and both have destroyed universes we have to resort to combat to come to the end conclusion

They are very much relevant, especially in this case.

Yeah, how come this isn't considered an outlier when multiple times people have called Hull and Thor's and surfers fears outliers?

Well I mean to be fair the writer intended this to be a feat for Sundipped Superman hence the inspiration statement from the writer about Goku and Gohan

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Combat feats are the only way to measure a characters power in combat yes.



No, For instances: Presence didn't have combat feats in there, But he still was one of the ceilings of DC hierarchy. The same could be said for Overmonitor, Or Morrison in Animal run, Or Yellow Alien etc

Presence is a different case though

There are non-combat feats than are reasonably transferrable to combat. With WF, when a crisis arises, an anvil forms that allows him to replace the dying one with a new one, right? How does this transfer to combat?

Antimonitor destroys universes with a cannon. Without it, he is nearly beaten by Supergirl and on another occasion, his Thunderers. WF appears to be in a similar situation.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
No, For instances: Presence didn't have combat feats in there, But he still was one of the ceilings of DC hierarchy. The same could be said for Overmonitor, Or Morrison in Animal run, Or Yellow Alien etc

Were any of those entities actively taking part in the those events like the World Forger is taking part in Doom? Would they have any trouble stopping Lex and his team? Would they be able to undo all of his preparations? There's a lot of things that are being claimed but it's the little things that make no sense.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You think combat feats are entirely irrelevant to vs battles? Tell me your joking. Feats and combat is a case by case basis. If the two is in the same ballpark and both have destroyed universes we have to resort to combat to come to the end conclusion No one said they are irrelevant. But there are better ways to gauge powerlevels. Creating multiverses is one of those, even if you people want to pretend like it's not.

Originally posted by MrMind
TOAA is not writer avatar anymore, check out infinity ending by starlin, he got absorbed Thanos W/Regulator in combat

if we judge LT solely on combat, he has many losses

I know what Starlin wrote. His Thanos wank is just that. Wank.

Your problem is that instead of actually posting a good arguments or feats (like Mungi did) you tried moving goal posts with that TOAA bs. Try harder

Originally posted by TheHulkster
There are non-combat feats than are reasonably transferrable to combat. With WF, when a crisis arises, an anvil forms that allows him to replace the dying one with a new one, right? How does this transfer to combat?

Antimonitor destroys universes with a cannon. Without it, he is nearly beaten by Supergirl and on another occasion, his Thunderers. The energy of his anvil strikes collateral damage was powerful enough to shattering reality when he trying to bring universe to life, When he was weakened
https://postimg.cc/cgjTsdRW
Anti-Monitor case just said how powerful of a Pre-Crsis Kryptonian. AM not only destroying universes, He also absorbing all universes energies which he destroyed

Originally posted by LordGod
No one said they are irrelevant. But there are better ways to gauge powerlevels. Creating multiverses is one of those, even if you people want to pretend like it's not.

How about the power to affect the time stream without having to split into teams? How would he even begin to face off against a being that had full mastery of time?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I know what Starlin wrote. His Thanos wank is just that. Wank.

Your problem is that instead of actually posting a good arguments or feats (like Mungi did) you tried moving goal posts with that TOAA bs. Try harder

Originally posted by MrMind

before derpy people start saying "hur dur off topic"

Originally posted by Stoic
Were any of those entities actively taking part in the those events like the World Forger is taking part in Doom? Would they have any trouble stopping Lex and his team? Would they be able to undo all of his preparations? There's a lot of things that are being claimed but it's the little things that make no sense. Your examples are irrelevant, Because they didn't contradict with "combat feats aren't the only way to measure a character powerlevels"
WF creating multiverses and hypertime, Which stated on panel in black and white.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The energy of his anvil strikes collateral damage was powerful enough to shattering reality when he trying to bring universe to life, When he was weakened
https://postimg.cc/cgjTsdRW
Anti-Monitor case just said how powerful of a Pre-Crsis Kryptonian. AM not only destroying universes, He also absorbing all universes energies which he destroyed

During COIE, was the Anti-Monitor operating at full power? Yes or No? I'm trying to get a grasp on their power levels, because of the statement that WF makes in your scan.

Originally posted by Stoic
During COIE, was the Anti-Monitor operating at full power? Yes or No? I'm trying to get a grasp on their power levels, because of the statement that WF makes in your scan. If what the plane which was mentioned by WF is meant to be 3D plane, Then the answer should be no.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Your examples are irrelevant, Because they didn't contradict with "combat feats aren't the only way to measure a character powerlevels"
WF creating multiverses and hypertime, Which stated on panel in black and white.

They aren't irrelevant in this case. We aren't talking about a Hyperion level being here. This is Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet. He had the power to change reality, travel through time, unmake and remake any or all events in history, etc. You have to come with more than a Cosmic Blacksmith hitting an anvil. That's what's throwing people for loops. It's comics so anything is possible, it just seems as if WF is lacking in the feat department, and not just the combat ones.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which of those entities can create a multiverse ex Nihilo?

Ex Nihilo's power is multiversal right since he defeats a Beyonder? Same for Star Brand?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
If what the plane which was mentioned by WF is meant to be 3D plane, Then the answer should be no.

You see what I mean? No one is 100% sure about these guys. It's 1 thing 1 second and another the next. How can what we presently see from WF combat even 1 facet of what Thanos could control? Time is just 1. How about mastery of reality? And that's just 2.

Originally posted by Stoic
But power is only one facet of what Thanos commanded. Thanos would have been completely aware of Batman's plan, and even if he allowed it to take place on the timeline he could have turned Superman into a flying rubber ball before he even made contact with his face due to his mastery of reality. WF just seems lacking. when superman is sundipped all of stats get increased including durability so I doubt Thanos would have been able to turn him into a rubber ball especially when superman survived his multiversal punch. Omniscient may not be part of WF's powerset but I don't think the ig packs enough power to overcome WF's lack of omniscience. Think BP with IG VS Doom and other times it lost after being nerfed.

I mean, worst comes to worst, World Forger creates a being capable of defeating IG Thanos.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Ewing had stated that Lifebringer was as powerful as the infinite multiverse Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Imgur.com/a/k4hynQc
Theoretically. Even Flash has theoretically access to infinite speed force.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Ex Nihilo's power is multiversal right since he defeats a Beyonder? Same for Star Brand?
Wut? I'm talking about creating a universe from scratch. Because even Adam Warlock with powers that surpassed LT couldn't create a universe from scratch.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793976_1673840.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793979_3405957.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793983_9785241.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793989_8527381.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793997_5337206.jpg

And he destroyed a universe just fine.

https://i.postimg.cc/CnMzkfC9/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/5jfHZZcp/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/ppTmdzLF/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hXQhLnx4/image.jpg

Creating a universe is far more difficult than destroying it. Name one character who has created a universe from scratch in marvel.

Originally posted by Stoic
They aren't irrelevant in this case. We aren't talking about a Hyperion level being here. This is Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet. He had the power to change reality, travel through time, unmake and remake any or all events in history, etc. You have to come with more than a Cosmic Blacksmith hitting an anvil. That's what's throwing people for loops. It's comics so anything is possible, it just seems as if WF is lacking in the feat department, and not just the combat ones.
Thanos with IG got stomped by Galactus just recently. So no, it's hardly that impossible.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? I'm talking about creating a universe from scratch. Because even Adam Warlock with powers that surpassed LT couldn't create a universe from scratch.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793976_1673840.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793979_3405957.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793983_9785241.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793989_8527381.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26793997_5337206.jpg

And he destroyed a universe just fine.

https://i.postimg.cc/CnMzkfC9/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/5jfHZZcp/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/ppTmdzLF/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hXQhLnx4/image.jpg

Creating a universe is far more difficult than destroying it. Name one character who has created a universe from scratch in marvel.

Franklin Richard literally created trillions after secret wars 2.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Franklin Richard literally created trillions after secret wars 2.

trillions? scan?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Franklin Richard literally created trillions after secret wars 2.
He didn't do it alone, he imagined a universe and then using Molecule Man made them into existence using already existing Multiverse's data (from battleworld as template).

Heck, by that logic Alex Luthor recreated infinite multiverse in Infinite Crisis. That's not what we are talking about.

Franklin didn't create that many universes anyway. This was recently discussed in a different thread.

Probably just created a few thousand universes iirc

Originally posted by LordGod
Franklin didn't create that many universes anyway. This was recently discussed in a different thread.

Probably just created a few thousand universes iirc

I thought he recreated the multiverse which one would assume has infinite universes.

There is a panel where his sister is telling him what kind of things to put in it and he did.

I don't remember the multiversal template thing but I also haven't seen it since it came out so abhi is probably right.

I thought that Marvel in its own way was just as big as the DCU? They both have infinite worlds and dimensions. Else Worlds, and What If time lines, Dark, or Demonic dimensions, etc. How can anyone claim to know which Superverse is larger?

@Supreme

WF crafted his second multiverse out of the 'best' ideas/variations he found in the mainstream multiverse, iirc. Hence the 'evolved' JLA and whatnot.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I thought he recreated the multiverse which one would assume has infinite universes.

There is a panel where his sister is telling him what kind of things to put in it and he did.

I don't remember the multiversal template thing but I also haven't seen it since it came out so abhi is probably right. Yeah, current Marvel isn't very large at all...
Originally posted by Galan007
Franklin and Owen were only at it for "over half a decade":
https://i.imgur.com/hfpekTt.jpg
...So more than 5 years, but less than 10.


IOW, they weren't creating individual universes for very long at all -- certainly not long enough to produce infinite universes. That's probably why Reed made the number of universes within their newly-fashioned multiverse sound extremely finite here:
https://i.imgur.com/1tVZ9ZC.jpg

That's what I'm thinking, I had no idea there was so many experts on metaphysical things, string theory and astrophysicist in this forum until the wf punch happened. Unfortunately, and I don't mean to be rude but I don't believe anyone in here is an expert in any of these subjects.

Originally posted by Galan007
@Supreme

WF crafted his second multiverse out of the 'best' ideas/variations he found in the mainstream multiverse, iirc. Hence the 'evolved' JLA and whatnot. Just for perspective...

The output from a greatly diminished World Forger would shatter mainstream reality , and every single strike creates the energy of a Universe, which he then casually manipulates the entirety of that energy for his own ends:
https://imgur.com/a/7M2rcxK - Lucifer and Michael in one, sort to speak.

At full-power, a single strike would propel an entire Multiverse in the previous one's stead, as seen in the first arc. https://imgur.com/a/lzM38yn]

Sorry, but WF's power can only be gauged by way of combat feats. Until he gets those, multiversal creation feats like you mentioned "ain't shit".

........apparently. none

Batman would slaughter WF tbh