Upside Down Man vs TOBA Hulk

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Stoic
Who wins?

Not sure if this applies to either but...
No BFR

ShadowFyre
I'm gonna find out wtf upside down man is and get back to ya

Stoic
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I'm gonna find out wtf upside down man is and get back to ya

Lol check out Justice League Dark. Solid DC title so you should enjoy reading it.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I'm gonna find out wtf upside down man is and get back to ya
The dude is Hecate's opposite i think. Thats if i read things correctly.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The dude is Hecate's opposite i think. Thats if i read things correctly. Isn't that Eclipso?

Galan007
I don't see how TOBA Hulk could actually beat UDM, but then again Hulk also has that weird/esoteric ability to kill true immortals, like Franklin and Mr. Immortal, so who knows... /shrug

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Isn't that Eclipso?
It is? Didnt they show him as Hecate's opposite?

Diesldude

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It is? Didnt they show him as Hecate's opposite? In the recently JLD issue, Stated eclipso was originally created as her opposite
https://postimg.cc/kBg6NGHX
https://postimg.cc/LnQqxRdk
https://postimg.cc/NKyKVVY3

xJLxKing

Diesldude

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
In the recently JLD issue, Stated eclipso was originally created as her opposite
https://postimg.cc/LnQqxRdk
This scan?

It literally has Upside Down Man as her opposite(mirror) image.

MrMind
Upside Down Man wins

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
This scan?

It literally has Upside Down Man as her opposite(mirror) image. But why is Eclipso being shown above Hecate then?

Diesldude

Adam Grimes
That makes sense.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
But why is Eclipso being shown above Hecate then?
Didnt know that was him.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
That makes sense. thumb up

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
But why is Eclipso being shown above Hecate then?

That wasn't Eclipso, that was the Upside Down Man's reflection in the water. He is the Yang to Hecate's Yin. He was created to keep her in check, because of the possibility of power corruption. I'm also going to read the book over in case I missed something. I like the direction of JLD. It would make for a decent movie if done right.

Diesldude

Diesldude

carver9
Upside Down Man is the best character that has ever been created. He still loses here.

Diesldude
Oh crap, I change my pick. Upside Man wins.

Stoic

Diesldude

qwertyuiop1998
But later Circe mentioned Eclipso and stated She will be magic itself(Which what Hecate is) when she binds to eclipso power.

qwertyuiop1998
Makes sense

Diesldude
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay, so can we assume that the Upside Down Man is Hecate's equal? Can we also assume that Eclipso is superior to both? Or what did that mean? Are we on the same page? My bad I misunderstood your post.

Even-though, Upside Down Man is stated to be Hecate's direct opposite, imo he's more powerful. I think he was growing more powerful and she BFRd him out of fear.

Eclipso is to counter her and possibly exceed her.

If i had to go, i would go wiht Upside Down man, Eclipso and then Hecate..

Stoic
Originally posted by Diesldude
My bad I misunderstood your post.

Even-though, Upside Down Man is stated to be Hecate's direct opposite, imo he's more powerful. I think he was growing more powerful and she BFRd him out of fear.

Eclipso is to counter her and possibly exceed her.

If i had to go, i would go wiht Upside Down man, Eclipso and then Hecate..

Really? I read it, and what I understood was that Eclipso's power eclipsed Hecate's power, which came off to me as if his power was far greater than hers. Now because UDM is her opposite I took it as he was her equal, which is reinforced by him being the Yang to Hecate's Yin. Eclipso was later created by dark forces to supersede her power. UDM according to on panel citation, should be Hecate's counter balance, or full equivalent.

TOBA Hulk possesses the infinite power of the Gammaverse. He seems to have killed, or destroyed everything in Marvel cosmology, unless I'm mistaken? Eating Galactus or the entity that turned Galan into Galactus shows that he has the ability to consume Abstracts. He also has the ability to kill true immortals like Mr. Immortal, and Franklin who is a reality manipulator. At the very end of the book, Bruce Banner questioned whether or not TOBA killed the Hulk, and felt as if he himself was somehow being eaten by this entity, or Devil Hulk as he called out to Joe who does not answer.

If TOBA killed every being in Marvel cosmology, that within itself is beyond words.

lawest9
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I'm gonna find out wtf upside down man is and get back to ya Maybe he is an upside down CAKE......😆😆😆😆😆😆

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
Really? I read it, and what I understood was that Eclipso's power eclipsed Hecate's power, which came off to me as if his power was far greater than hers. Now because UDM is her opposite I took it as he was her equal, which is reinforced by him being the Yang to Hecate's Yin. Eclipso was later created by dark forces to supersede her power. UDM according to on panel citation, should be Hecate's counter balance, or full equivalent.

TOBA Hulk possesses the infinite power of the Gammaverse. He seems to have killed, or destroyed everything in Marvel cosmology, unless I'm mistaken? Eating Galactus or the entity that turned Galan into Galactus shows that he has the ability to consume Abstracts. He also has the ability to kill true immortals like Mr. Immortal, and Franklin who is a reality manipulator. At the very end of the book, Bruce Banner questioned whether or not TOBA killed the Hulk, and felt as if he himself was somehow being eaten by this entity, or Devil Hulk as he called out to Joe who does not answer.

If TOBA killed every being in Marvel cosmology, that within itself is beyond words. Alternate Cosmic Entities that apparently have human bones.

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Alternate Cosmic Entities that apparently have human bones.

How are they alternate reality beings when it was 616 Hulk that killed them? The art direction failed. It's not as if Dale Keown, or Ed McGuiness is sketching the Immortal Hulk. So bones are what we get.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
How are they alternate reality beings when it was 616 Hulk that killed them? The art direction failed. It's not as if Dale Keown, or Ed McGuiness is sketching the Immortal Hulk. So bones are what we get.

It's an alt. future, is what he meant. Which in Marvel means a diff U designation.

LordGod
I wonder which future Marvel considers more canon- the future in IH or the future in History of the MU? confused

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay, so can we assume that the Upside Down Man is Hecate's equal? Can we also assume that Eclipso is superior to both? Or what did that mean? Are we on the same page?
Absolutely incorrect

Hecate is the original magic source
She split into two. One part of her was locked away and became the upside down man


Eclipso is not her superior in any way

zopzop
Wait a minute.
Look at what it says :


Look up how Eclipso is usually described in DC. That has to be who the text is referencing.

xJLxKing

qwertyuiop1998
↑From my understanding, UDM was the original opposite of Hecate, But when she sealed up UDM that was her dark mirror(You can see she isolating him from the second link I posted), Yin and yang balance needs to be restored, So there comes to eclipso as her opposite(The second scan/link I posted drawing eclipso above hecate, And later in the third scan/link Circe stated when she binds to eclipso powers, She won't just be goddess of magic, She will be magic itself, Which was the exactly what Hecate is)↑

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's an alt. future, is what he meant. Which in Marvel means a diff U designation.

Did it state that it was an alternate future? I see it as a possible future for 616, which mean that it will be the 616 Galactus, Franklin, and every other being within the 616 reality. If it did not make mention of another timeline it is the same reality as the current timeline that the Immortal Hulk is from. We are seeing the progressoon take place in every IH book, we even got a glimpse of the Devil Hulk in last months issue. Not sure why you're drawing these conclusions?

Stoic

Stoic

xJLxKing

Stoic
We have to see how it unfolds. However it doesn't change what was written in terms of power levels. It stated earlier in last month's JLD that the Black Diamond alone could rip reality apart.

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
However it doesn't change what was written in terms of power levels. It stated earlier in last month's JLD that the Black Diamond alone could rip reality apart.
Which makes sense since Eclipso had Spectre's role in creation before Spectre was even made.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
Did it state that it was an alternate future? I see it as a possible future for 616, which mean that it will be the 616 Galactus, Franklin, and every other being within the 616 reality. If it did not make mention of another timeline it is the same reality as the current timeline that the Immortal Hulk is from. We are seeing the progressoon take place in every IH book, we even got a glimpse of the Devil Hulk in last months issue. Not sure why you're drawing these conclusions? You could say the same about Marvel Zombies. Or AoA, or AoU etc they're still not canon.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by zopzop
Which makes sense since Eclipso had Spectre's role in creation before Spectre was even made.
Retconned

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
You could say the same about Marvel Zombies. Or AoA, or AoU etc they're still not canon.

Where are you getting your info from? TOBA Hulk is 616 Immortal Hulk in the future. Do you have any citations proving your claim?

Adam Grimes
Do you even Marvel?

Stoic
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Do you even Marvel?

Ok so no proof. Got it.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Stoic
Ok so no proof. Got it.
In one of the future timelines, it was mentioned that Franklin and Galactus were going to be the last 2 left. In this version of the future TOBA is the last being. Which is the main stream version?

MrMind
Stoic is very slow, I think he needs help from us

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Did it state that it was an alternate future? I see it as a possible future for 616, which mean that it will be the 616 Galactus, Franklin, and every other being within the 616 reality. If it did not make mention of another timeline it is the same reality as the current timeline that the Immortal Hulk is from. We are seeing the progressoon take place in every IH book, we even got a glimpse of the Devil Hulk in last months issue. Not sure why you're drawing these conclusions?

But then we have another comic with the same 'end' which is different, which makes no mention of another timeline.

Originally posted by Galan007
He's disputing the fact that it's an alternate future... Even though it very clearly IS. That's how Marvel cosmology is laid out: future events = alternate events by default.



And to further drive that point home: right now, in current publication, we have witnessed two completely different renditions of Marvel's 'end', in two completely different titles: "Immortal Hulk", and "History of the Marvel Universe".

In the IH issues, Hulk is the last being remaining at the end of all things, and he had already killed Franklin Richards and Galactus billionS of years prior:
http://i.imgur.com/PAq7ngFm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LeNqzUam.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GfG0bNPm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pjGVTc3m.jpg


Yet in HotMU, it is Franklin and Galactus who are the final beings remaining at the end of all things, and will usher in the next cosmos:
http://i.imgur.com/GdeYLPGm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/cOBlwmmm.jpg


IOW, even current Marvel is giving us two completely different takes on how the existing creation ends... So which 'end of all things' do we go by? Or should we do the more logical thing and assume they are both taking place in alternate futures(which, as I said, is already an established concept in Marvel)..?
Originally posted by Galan007
It's basically a What If that's showing us what happens in 'x' alternate timeline when Hulk reigns supreme at the end of things. Could the Franklin in that timeline be just as powerful as he is in mainstream 616? Absolutely. Is there any way to know for sure? Not really(unless it's clarified in subsequent issues or w/e.)

srug

Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while.

lft4ded
Originally posted by Diesldude
In one of the future timelines, it was mentioned that Franklin and Galactus were going to be the last 2 left. In this version of the future TOBA is the last being. Which is the main stream version?

More than that, Mr Immortal also outlived Franklin and Galactus in the 9th Cosmos future.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while. Pretty much. thumb up

Stoic
Galan thank you for clearing up the haze. But as noted an alt. future doesn't mean alt. reality universe. He was still standing on 616 soil. That was something that needed to be cleared up in order to avoid invalidation.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But then we have another comic with the same 'end' which is different, which makes no mention of another timeline.




Galan already posted what I've been trying to say all this while.

I was a little confused on how Marvel futures technically worked, This was somthing that needed to be explained to me. However, people often play fast and loose with anything tagged with the Alternate moniker. In this case TOBA Hulk belongs to an alternate future of Earth 616 , not an alternate dimension or even alternate Earth described by its number. For example, TOBA Hulk is from Earth 616, and not Earth 12913. An alternate Earth aside from Earth 616 would present continuity discrepancies kind of like comparing Earth 616 Norrin Radd to the Exiles Norrin Radd.

I just wanted to be clear on the implications in order to shed light on what happened off panel. I'm imagining TOBA Hulk defeating legitimate versions of some pretty powerful characters. My main point? To avoid a misunderstanding that could lead to any notion serving to invalidate TOBA Hulk's power level.

xJLxKing
A alternative is just another way to say what if

Stoic
Not as cut and dry as that. There are alternate futures with the same past, and alternate futures with completely different pasts.

Diesldude
Stoic who do you think wins?

Stoic
TOBA Hulk probably eats him, but not sure if the Upside Down Man would cease to exist?

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
Galan thank you for clearing up the haze. But as noted an alt. future doesn't mean alt. reality universe. He was still standing on 616 soil. That was something that needed to be cleared up in order to avoid invalidation. Yes, in Marvel Alt Future means Alt Reality.

Stoic
With the same past?

xJLxKing

Stoic
But it doesn't mean that Franklin, Galactus, the Celestials, etc were any less powerful.

Diesldude

MrMind
stoic doesn't really know who upside down man is and his brain automatically pick hulk in a battle no matter how badly hulk actually gets stomped.

quite fascinating

Stoic

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Stoic
But it doesn't mean that Franklin, Galactus, the Celestials, etc were any less powerful. Yes, it does. Just because they have the same past doesn't make them the same universe. You see exactly that in pretty much every What If.

-K-M-

Diesldude

deft
TOBA is a genuine counterpart of TOAA? If he is, then thid Hulk is multiversal is not?

carver9
Lol... yes, he is the opposition of TOAA. Hulk was just revealed as being TOBA child. Hulks daddy is one of the most powerful beings in the Universe.

MrMind
people are saying TOBA is the counterpart of TOAA just because of some vague statements that don't prove anything. read these scans carefully, only the biggest hulk wanker would interpret these scans as TOBA=TOAA, straight retardation really

https://imgur.com/a/qMkmVUe

He is not even close to GEB. For starter Presence directly showed up to stop GEB when Spectre couldn't.

TOAA has not showed up once during the Immortal Hulk run and only "God" is vaguely mentioned. and "God" in Marvel could mean many things.

his best feat is killing franklin richards and galactus then devour metatron the 8th cosmo which is a universe

these feats, Upside Down Man is all capable of replicating

Upside Down Man is casually multiversal, hell Witchmarked Wonder Woman is casually multiversal and Upside Down Man is superior to Hecate

Diesldude
Originally posted by MrMind
people are saying TOBA is the counterpart of TOAA just because of some vague statements that don't prove anything. read these scans carefully, only the biggest hulk wanker would interpret these scans as TOBA=TOAA, straight retardation really

https://imgur.com/a/qMkmVUe

He is not even close to GEB. For starter Presence directly showed up to stop GEB when Spectre couldn't.

TOAA has not showed up once during the Immortal Hulk run and only "God" is vaguely mentioned. and "God" in Marvel could mean many things.

his best feat is killing franklin richards and galactus then devour metatron the 8th cosmo which is a universe

these feats, Upside Down Man is all capable of replicating

Upside Down Man is casually multiversal, hell Witchmarked Wonder Woman is casually multiversal and Upside Down Man is superior to Hecate

IDK im just going by Intent. there has to be a reason why they named him TOBA.

Im still waiting for an explanation on how the hulk defeated him with a thunder clap and got possessed at the same time.

MrMind
Originally posted by Diesldude
IDK im just going by Intent. there has to be a reason why they named him TOBA.

Im still waiting for an explanation on how the hulk defeated him with a thunder clap and got possessed at the same time.

we can't just automatically assume TOBA=TOAA from his name LOL

Diesldude
Originally posted by MrMind
we can't just automatically assume TOBA=TOAA from his name LOL True.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by MrMind
we can't just automatically assume TOBA=TOAA from his name LOL The same way we can't assume that Franklin, Galactus and Metatron were as powerful as their main counterpart. Specially since TOBA did all of that off-panel.

carver9
Originally posted by Diesldude
IDK im just going by Intent. there has to be a reason why they named him TOBA.

Im still waiting for an explanation on how the hulk defeated him with a thunder clap and got possessed at the same time.

It's simple, Superman defeated World Forger, he did KILL him. With that said, since WF wasnt killed, he can attack Superman again. What does defeat mean to you?

Diesldude
Originally posted by carver9
It's simple, Superman defeated World Forger, he did KILL him. With that said, since WF wasnt killed, he can attack Superman again. What does defeat mean to you?

Superman defeated and stopped WF from accomplishing his goal.

Hulk supposedly defeated TOBA so he could leave from the hell he was in. But he got possessed instead. So how did he defeat TOBA again?

carver9
Originally posted by Diesldude
Superman defeated and stopped WF from accomplishing his goal.

Hulk supposedly defeated TOBA so he could leave from the hell he was in. But he got possessed instead. So how did he defeat TOBA again?

Your post doesnt make sense. Hulk merging back with Banner is the reason he was able to escape hell, it had nothing to do with the One Below all. Hulk closed the gates behind him and escaped.

You're question is like me asking "Shazam defeated Eclipso so how was Eclipso able to possess Superman". Lol, he came back, jumped into Superman body and possessed him. Simple.

Diesldude

carver9
So the comic saying Hulk is fight TOBA the entire issue, it was lying? You honestly need to stop. I'll PM you the entire issue. You're literally the only one in denial here. The rest of the people are trying to downplay OBA, not say it wasnt him.

Diesldude
Originally posted by carver9
So the comic saying Hulk is fight TOBA the entire issue, it was lying? You honestly need to stop. I'll PM you the entire issue. You're literally the only one in denial here. The rest of the people are trying to downplay OBA, not say it wasnt him. where does it say inside the comic? All I read so far inside the comic was that the cloud thing he dispersed was the gate keeper and not TOBA..

carver9
Originally posted by Diesldude
where does it say inside the comic? All I read so far inside the comic was that the cloud thing he dispersed was the gate keeper and not TOBA..

I'm not posting it again. You need to start reading people replies to you. I posted the same image for you THREE TIMES where it outright say it's the One Below All. Then you replied to it. I just dont understand. It's like we keep repeating the same things over and over again. I picture you on the other end of your computer screaming out laughing at people putting effort into posting the same comments over and over to you. Its best you keep sticky notes or post people comments to you in a word doc so that we/I dont have to keep repeating myself.

Diesldude
edit gonna go buy the damn comics and read them.

Adam Grimes
Carver, show me a scan of TOBA. How does he look like?

MrMind
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
The same way we can't assume that Franklin, Galactus and Metatron were as powerful as their main counterpart. Specially since TOBA did all of that off-panel.

also I'd like to add Upside Down Man can easily destroy these people too so it's a non feat really

carver9
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Carver, show me a scan of TOBA. How does he look like?

Hes in Immortal Hulk #12 and #13.

LordGod
Originally posted by MrMind
people are saying TOBA is the counterpart of TOAA just because of some vague statements that don't prove anything. read these scans carefully, only the biggest hulk wanker would interpret these scans as TOBA=TOAA, straight retardation really

https://imgur.com/a/qMkmVUe

He is not even close to GEB. For starter Presence directly showed up to stop GEB when Spectre couldn't.

TOAA has not showed up once during the Immortal Hulk run and only "God" is vaguely mentioned. and "God" in Marvel could mean many things. TOBA actually sounds a lot like Barbatos here.

Stoic
Originally posted by LordGod
TOBA actually sounds a lot like Barbatos here.

Barbatos was directly linked to an inexhaustible power souce?

MrMind
laughing out loud stoic's comprehension skill

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by Stoic
Barbatos was directly linked to an inexhaustible power souce? yes.

any other questions?

Stoic
Actually yeah, what power source?

DarkSaint85
Imagination. Not kidding. He's linked to the Dark Multiverse, which pops a new universe EVERY time a negative thought happens.

Superman wakes up, gets splattered by a car on his way to work, thinks a negative thought - new universe. Simultaneously, Batman wakes up, Alfred is late with his eggs, he thinks a negative thought - nee universe.

Now repeat that with EVERY SINGLE living being. Every second of every day. That spawns a new universe.

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