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Either is convinced that their opponent is about to kill everything.

Who wins?

Well, people always say that flash can hit with the infinite mass punch and since speed is always an excuse, Flash steals supermans speed and hit him with said punch for 1000/10 wins.

Superman, he eon the last race they had.

Which Flash

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which Flash Yes, Topic should specify this

The one with the best speed feat, not the slower ones.

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
The one with the best speed feat, not the slower ones. dur

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
The one with the best speed feat, not the slower ones.

thus acknowledging that Superman is one of the fastest characters out there, and needs the best of the best to make a thread competitive.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
thus acknowledging that Superman is one of the fastest characters out there, and needs the best of the best to make a thread competitive.
You mean Wally West, who outright said its suicidal to take down Superman?

https://i.ibb.co/QjJpKD3/dg-OLWYx0u83-F7gcj-K5e-SXq32y-ELrvf1ppvf59ya90v-IJs-EFlc9-JY1-AVRMn-Z-MJa-Vo-Qc-LFSY2-ZXszyp5-DCRMoy-C0bby-N8c-UZp-Wz94a-Z-fj-Xy6-Xc-LTGZRKRg-S2dhr-Mm4fypf2-DOn4-Og-s1600.jpg https://i.ibb.co/289T0v0/Umua-FFYyu6jnr-Dzc-SZi-GCMqf-Iw1n0vw3-TLi-Iys-OC471-y-Io4-Tl-Iit-Fn-Xd6ledq-Da-Yz-M2-Mm4r-Uc-Tq-MYup-mg-TNcmr6-Df08-CIWVQECgpv-BKn9i6-Ff-M-xw-JAllh-WZ0e-FUjn1p-R-8-W3-A-s1600.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which Flash Which Flash wins?

Wally would.

Wally and Barry win

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally would. Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean Wally West, who outright said its suicidal to take down Superman?

https://i.ibb.co/QjJpKD3/dg-OLWYx0u83-F7gcj-K5e-SXq32y-ELrvf1ppvf59ya90v-IJs-EFlc9-JY1-AVRMn-Z-MJa-Vo-Qc-LFSY2-ZXszyp5-DCRMoy-C0bby-N8c-UZp-Wz94a-Z-fj-Xy6-Xc-LTGZRKRg-S2dhr-Mm4fypf2-DOn4-Og-s1600.jpg https://i.ibb.co/289T0v0/Umua-FFYyu6jnr-Dzc-SZi-GCMqf-Iw1n0vw3-TLi-Iys-OC471-y-Io4-Tl-Iit-Fn-Xd6ledq-Da-Yz-M2-Mm4r-Uc-Tq-MYup-mg-TNcmr6-Df08-CIWVQECgpv-BKn9i6-Ff-M-xw-JAllh-WZ0e-FUjn1p-R-8-W3-A-s1600.jpg
Nope

Doesn't Superman say he's scared to fight Martian Manhunter?

Speedsters were stated to be more dangerous and or powerful than kryptonians, not to mention Superman has ZERO resistance for speed steal. Jay alone did it to him

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope

Since we now take what heroes say at face value.....

https://i.postimg.cc/rmZ7f8fJ/mm.jpg

Oh sure, I know, I too have seen the multiple scans of Superman outperforming MMH. BUT that is not my point. My point is, Wally saying something about Supes doesn't make it so, any more so than Supes saying something about MMH is suddenly true.

You can't have one without the other.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Speedsters were stated to be more dangerous and or powerful than kryptonians, not to mention Superman has ZERO resistance for speed steal. Jay alone did it to him When is the last time Flash stole speed? Then tell me the last time before that.

He speed stole an explosion just recently in rebirth

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doesn't Superman say he's scared to fight Martian Manhunter?
And? Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Since we now take what heroes say at face value.....

https://i.postimg.cc/rmZ7f8fJ/mm.jpg

Oh sure, I know, I too have seen the multiple scans of Superman outperforming MMH. BUT that is not my point. My point is, Wally saying something about Supes doesn't make it so, any more so than Supes saying something about MMH is suddenly true.

You can't have one without the other.
For one arc. Rest of the times J'onn is a punching bag.

Flash is only a threat for Superman because we ignore his 99% of showings. Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Speedsters were stated to be more dangerous and or powerful than kryptonians, not to mention Superman has ZERO resistance for speed steal. Jay alone did it to him
Never happened. Their power sets were stated to be more dangerous due to time travel involved.

Wally is plenty fast enough to beat him in a race but not fast enough to beat him in a fight.

Supes will get his punch in and it will be all he needs to end the fight.

In a normal fight, Superman wins, in a fight like this, the Flashes stomps.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And?
For one arc. Rest of the times J'onn is a punching bag.

Flash is only a threat for Superman because we ignore his 99% of showings.
Never happened. Their power sets were stated to be more dangerous due to time travel involved.

That doesn't negate the fact that Superman has said it. Wally saying it about Superman doesn't make it true, just like Superman saying it about MMH doesn't make it true.

Will keep repeating it as necessary.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And?
For one arc. Rest of the times J'onn is a punching bag.

Flash is only a threat for Superman because we ignore his 99% of showings.
Never happened. Their power sets were stated to be more dangerous due to time travel involved.

Someone who was a rookie and inexperienced at speed stealing did this to Superman, Wally is DEF speed stealing Supes with ZERO trouble

https://i.postimg.cc/62RzP7zb/wha.jpg

Flash has Speed Stolen Superman AND Wonder Woman at the same time

https://i.postimg.cc/ykwmM6gw/as.jpg

If Superman tried to grab him, Flash can phase out of his grasp. He's done it multiple times.

https://i.postimg.cc/7GGYr4TW/via.jpg

Originally posted by LordGod
When is the last time Flash stole speed? Then tell me the last time before that. in rebirth, he has done it at least 4-5 times

Wally West, Barry, and even the new Wally.

Wally and Barry would beat him

Or Bart when he had the entire universe of speedforce

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That doesn't negate the fact that Superman has said it. Wally saying it about Superman doesn't make it true, just like Superman saying it about MMH doesn't make it true.

It was for that arc as Fernus did beat Superman. Later writers turned him into a punching bag again. Flash has never beaten Superman (never even came close to it).

Repeating nonsense doesn't makes it true.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Someone who was a rookie and inexperienced at speed stealing did this to Superman, Wally is DEF speed stealing Supes with ZERO trouble

https://i.postimg.cc/62RzP7zb/wha.jpg Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Flash has Speed Stolen Superman AND Wonder Woman at the same time

https://i.postimg.cc/ykwmM6gw/as.jpg
Awesome. What's your point? Superman generates his own speed and if you can generate your own speed, you can break out of speed steal like both Inertia and Thawne have shown. Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
If Superman tried to grab him, Flash can phase out of his grasp. He's done it multiple times.

https://i.postimg.cc/7GGYr4TW/via.jpg
Superman has already beaten intangible opponents.

Freeze breath will absolutely beat Flash (like Captain Cold has already done to Flash, multiple times).

Originally posted by MrMind
Wally and Barry would beat him

Or Bart when he had the entire universe of speedforce
That Bart was struggling to beat Steppenwolf. Forget Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was for that arc as Fernus did beat Superman. Later writers turned him into a punching bag again. Flash has never beaten Superman (never even came close to it).

Repeating nonsense doesn't makes it true.

What nonsense? That characters frequently give props that doesn't necessarily are truth?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Awesome. What's your point? Superman generates his own speed and if you can generate your own speed, you can break out of speed steal like both Inertia and Thawne have shown.
Superman has already beaten intangible opponents.

Freeze breath will absolutely beat Flash (like Captain Cold has already done to Flash, multiple times).

LOL, Freeze Breath? Flash literally taught Supergirl how to counter freezing attacks and AZ by vibrating. Not only that, Flash can outrun it. He even casually outean Supes'heat vision.
https://i.postimg.cc/qz1qMvjD/tha.jpg

and first of all, Zoom dodnt counter Speed Steal by generating his own Speed. He did it because of his connection to the Forever Force, which allows him to speed himself up via Time Manipulation. It wasn't speed that let Zoom counter Speed Steal, it w as Time Hax. And you have to read the comics. Inertia didn't free himself from being Speed Stolen, Zoom did, again, via time Hax. -_'

Waly can completely slow Superman to a stop via Speed Steal. Not to mention if Wally truly wanted to kill him, phasing his brain out of his head would certainly kill Supes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
thus acknowledging that Superman is one of the fastest characters out there, and needs the best of the best to make a thread competitive. False, but nice try. Jay did it to him.

proof of Zoom breaking Inertia out of Speed Steal via Forever Force/Time Hax:

https://i.postimg.cc/K3n9rWs4/psl.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/G4MXQGzP/heb.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/tsg5Y7ys/3ra.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/ZW1V24t0/sdla.jpg

So ABHI your argument that Superman can counter Speed Steal via speed alone is debunked, especially since your 'evidence'to back your claim was using Zoom and Inertia, who didn't even counter it with Speed, but with Time Manipulation.

https://i.postimg.cc/fJSdFXwj/tla.jpg

Wally, cadually Speed Stealing Superman without even being near him.
https://i.postimg.cc/56W94FBm/sjt.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/zVDzHYQL/vib.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/87rqjyTJ/yol.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/cvqF5dNC/dif.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NL97hZDH/fla.jpg

^SEVERAL examples/instances of flash/flashes phasing through prime, and superman

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
False, but nice try. Jay did it to him.

You said the fastest. Jay isn't.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You said the fastest. Jay isn't..... And if a slower one did it, your statement is false then.

Even XS, a lower tier Speedste, phased through Superboy Prime who is >> Superman effortlessly.
https://i.postimg.cc/NL97hZDH/fla.jpg

So with what I have proven about the Flashes being able to phase through Kryptonians, I see no reason why Wally cant phase through Superman and kill him like this, especially if Supes is already slowed to a stop via Speed Steal.

https://i.postimg.cc/PCWnS60G/sha.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5Y0cNfy1/fut.jpg

Originally posted by JBL THE GREAT
And if a slower one did it, your statement is false then.

? YOU were the one who said we needed the Flash with the 'best speed feats'......

And lets not forget, Wally phased through and destroyed the massively durable armor of an AMPED COIE Anti Monitor. He completely obliterated his armor via phasing. Mind you, Wally was weak and on the verge of collapsing at this time AND he just got done giving some of his Speed to Superman and the rest of the JL to amp them.

https://i.postimg.cc/qtqQNqsm/sle.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/jWYPbj8w/tur.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/68rTCf0q/yuy.jpg

Furthermore, as was explained in this scan, Turtle, who also uses Speed Steal, demonstrated that the ability can be lethal if you use it to slow down bloodflow. He did this to four guards and put 3 into a coma and the 4th died becaise it caused his heart to explode. So even if Speed Stealong Superman's bloodflow doesnt kill him, it will certainly **** him up.

Scan of Wally proving he can also slow down bloodflow via Speed Steal:
https://i.postimg.cc/68rTCf0q/yuy.jpg

Speed Steal can also be ised to slow brain function. So its pretty safe to assume that Flash Speed Stealong Superman's body, brain function, and bloodflow would put Supes at a major disadvantage. And again, every punce of kinetic energy Wally takes from his opponents instantly amps his speed and makes him more powerful. So while Superman's body, brain function, and bloodflow is slowed down, Wally is simultaneouly amped.
https://i.postimg.cc/Js0Mz32S/wil.jpg

So NO abhi, Wally's statement is MEANINGLESS. Wally has countless ways to kill superman with ease

before anyone says "But Superman can vibrate too!", Wally has already proven that his connection to the Speed Force can cancel out the phasing of even someone like Martian Manhunter, and force them back to solid.

https://i.postimg.cc/KkS1TsX1/sol.jpg

While I think that if you gave me Wally or Barry's skills and experience, I could win, I'm not sure they would.

Superman would beat the living piss out of any other Flash than those two, though. Jay, Bart etc would get mauled.

Wally and Barry should win

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
? YOU were the one who said we needed the Flash with the 'best speed feats'...... Which means NOT the one or ones with the worst.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So NO abhi, Wally's statement is MEANINGLESS. Wally has countless ways to kill superman with ease

DarkSaint just ejaculated a thousand of times and is currently in a coma, fully encased in a sperm cocoon.

You monster, why did you do it?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
DarkSaint just ejaculated a thousand of times and is currently in a coma, fully encased in a sperm cocoon.

You monster, why did you do it? He did it so Darkstar would stop ejaculating on his face instead. Smart tactic by our friendo Roberto.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What nonsense? That characters frequently give props that doesn't necessarily are truth?
In this case, those aren't props.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
LOL, Freeze Breath? Flash literally taught Supergirl how to counter freezing attacks and AZ by vibrating. Not only that, Flash can outrun it. He even casually outean Supes'heat vision.
https://i.postimg.cc/qz1qMvjD/tha.jpg

and first of all, Zoom dodnt counter Speed Steal by generating his own Speed. He did it because of his connection to the Forever Force, which allows him to speed himself up via Time Manipulation. It wasn't speed that let Zoom counter Speed Steal, it w as Time Hax. And you have to read the comics. Inertia didn't free himself from being Speed Stolen, Zoom did, again, via time Hax. -_'
What gibberish are you talking about? Captain Cold has beaten Flash multiple times using just cold gun. Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Waly can completely slow Superman to a stop via Speed Steal. Not to mention if Wally truly wanted to kill him, phasing his brain out of his head would certainly kill Supes.
No, he can't.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
proof of Zoom breaking Inertia out of Speed Steal via Forever Force/Time Hax:

https://i.postimg.cc/K3n9rWs4/psl.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/G4MXQGzP/heb.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/tsg5Y7ys/3ra.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/ZW1V24t0/sdla.jpg

That's not some hax troll. Inertia just got the power to generate his own speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. Inertia had lost his power and was using Velocity 9 to artificially power himself up.

https://s22.postimg.cc/r5cldpmlp/image.jpg

As soon as his power returned, he was free from the speed steal.



Nonsense.

And? Superman has already hit Flash while he was intangible.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Even XS, a lower tier Speedste, phased through Superboy Prime who is >> Superman effortlessly.
https://i.postimg.cc/NL97hZDH/fla.jpg

So with what I have proven about the Flashes being able to phase through Kryptonians, I see no reason why Wally cant phase through Superman and kill him like this, especially if Supes is already slowed to a stop via Speed Steal.

https://i.postimg.cc/PCWnS60G/sha.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5Y0cNfy1/fut.jpg
First is when they were amped on a surge in speed force. Second is from JLA the nail, alternate reality. Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
And lets not forget, Wally phased through and destroyed the massively durable armor of an AMPED COIE Anti Monitor. He completely obliterated his armor via phasing. Mind you, Wally was weak and on the verge of collapsing at this time AND he just got done giving some of his Speed to Superman and the rest of the JL to amp them.

https://i.postimg.cc/qtqQNqsm/sle.jpg
Ah yes, his highest feat ever. Let's see what's Superman's highest feat is, eh?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/jWYPbj8w/tur.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/68rTCf0q/yuy.jpg

Furthermore, as was explained in this scan, Turtle, who also uses Speed Steal, demonstrated that the ability can be lethal if you use it to slow down bloodflow. He did this to four guards and put 3 into a coma and the 4th died becaise it caused his heart to explode. So even if Speed Stealong Superman's bloodflow doesnt kill him, it will certainly **** him up.

Scan of Wally proving he can also slow down bloodflow via Speed Steal:
https://i.postimg.cc/68rTCf0q/yuy.jpg

Speed Steal can also be ised to slow brain function. So its pretty safe to assume that Flash Speed Stealong Superman's body, brain function, and bloodflow would put Supes at a major disadvantage. And again, every punce of kinetic energy Wally takes from his opponents instantly amps his speed and makes him more powerful. So while Superman's body, brain function, and bloodflow is slowed down, Wally is simultaneouly amped.
https://i.postimg.cc/Js0Mz32S/wil.jpg

So NO abhi, Wally's statement is MEANINGLESS. Wally has countless ways to kill superman with ease
Yeah, Superman is just a random human who can be beaten like that.

Sure....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That doesn't negate the fact that Superman has said it. Wally saying it about Superman doesn't make it true, just like Superman saying it about MMH doesn't make it true.

Will keep repeating it as necessary.

I agree with this, sounds like a double standard if you accept one without the other.

If the situation is like Superman Up In The Sky#4, Superman will ouspeed even Flash.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In this case, those aren't props.

That's just your opinion.

In the same storyline, Wally is the fastest being in the entire Multiverse

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I agree with this, sounds like a double standard if you accept one without the other.
Who's denying it? J'onn was considered more powerful than Superman for one arc and he did beat Superman. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's just your opinion.

In the same storyline, Wally is the fastest being in the entire Multiverse
No, it's Wally's opinion.

Funny how you accept Wally saying it but reject his statement about Superman. Also speed is hardly auto win.

Fernus =/= J'onn. Though Superman's statement was about J'onn, the one who beat Superman was Fernus.

And Clark has given J'onn lip service so many times, even as he was getting his ass beat by a guy Superman would later solo, that it's hilarious.

As for the thread, my opinion that Wally beats Supes is already well known.

edit: last part was in the wrong thread.

It's not about being more powerful, or about speed itself.

For me, it's always been about speed steal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Speed steal is useless on characters who generate their own speed.What does this even mean? That he can't speed-steal Superman?

Sounds like Abhi is just mad that Wally is faster than Superman... mmm

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sounds like Abhi is just mad that Wally is faster than Superman... mmm
Why would anyone be mad over that? Flash gets his ass kicked by everyone.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Wally can't immobilize him in permanent way. I disagree, but why would he need to do it permanently in the first place? He could do it just enough so that Superman never touches him, while he IMPs him for however many times he'd like.

Kind of like he did to Amazo, only he'd be fresh and stay around to plow him.
https://imgur.com/a/yI30aNI

There's nothing Superman can do. His range attacks are too slow to hit Flash, and he'd never get close enough, or be fast enough, to hit Wally, when the latter can instantly make him lose his speed competitiveness. As he would have done here, if not for the environment ramifications:
https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Maybe I'm a bit off here but doesn't this apply to every character?

Originally posted by abhilegend
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Wally can't immobilize him in permanent way. But speed steal doesn't cut you off from kinetic energy solely produced by the Speed Force.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Maybe I'm a bit off here but doesn't this apply to every character? It does, but the mistake abhi makes here is separating the speed force from the motion inside the universe -- when the speed force IS the motion of the universe. In that sense, whatever speed is produced is, by definition, speed force-related -- which Flash can steal. And has. From Superman himself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That version of Amazo got his head blasted off by Black Canary. He was inconsistent as ****. And even then Superman blitzed the same Amazo who blitzed Flash.

Cold breath will slow down Flash enough and no Flash is so fast that Superman can't EVER hit them. Even Johns never made it so.
Not everyone is as fast as Superman though. It's not a matter of Flash being so fast that Superman can't hit him, it's a matter of Flash being able to control Superman's speed by stealing it, so that he can't. Without speed steal, Superman would win, since he'd eventually break him with a slap.

Superman bullrushed Amazo and then then was not fast enough not to get beaten with red sun radiation at super-speed:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webp

But we're going on tangents here, it's not like anybody is saying Wally can't steal the speed of Superman -- Flash can steal Superman's speed whenever he wants in a forum fight without worrying about damages https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg], so he would. He knows he can't afford getting hit . So he will, and there's nothing Supes can do about it. Heat vision has zero chance, since we've seen Wally faster than it https://i.imgur.com/TuQgHOz.jpg] and freeze breath would never hit him, or even if it would... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6fbefedb97ba15f45b4731c5580f71c2.webp

Originally posted by abhilegend
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Wally can't immobilize him in permanent way.

Wut?

I generate kinetic energy and speed everytime I move, lol


Anyway, if Superman.... regenerates his speed ......it's still part of the SF.

https://i.postimg.cc/YSVyCKrQ/28.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wut?

I generate kinetic energy and speed everytime I move, lol


Anyway, if Superman.... regenerates his speed ......it's still part of the SF.

https://i.postimg.cc/YSVyCKrQ/28.jpg

although, you could argue Any character with telekinesis based flight would only be physically immobilized they still could move under outside imput like tk

You turned him into a giant bullet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wut?

I generate kinetic energy and speed everytime I move, lol


Anyway, if Superman.... regenerates his speed ......it's still part of the SF.

https://i.postimg.cc/YSVyCKrQ/28.jpg
And? Flash hardly controls kinetic energy of the universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? Flash hardly controls kinetic energy of the universe.

Does he have to to control Superman's speed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Superman got beaten by red sun radiation. Unlike Flash who legit got speedblitzed.

https://i.ibb.co/7rD5NnT/RCO009.jpg https://i.ibb.co/3cmH3xB/RCO010.jpg

And gee, Amazo got totally beaten by that speed steal. Just look at that.

Speed steal is nice in theory but it just isn't portrayed that way in comics. I legitimately don't understand your point here, and what this has to do with the thread. Superman also got beaten by red sun at super-speed :
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webp
"Unfortunately, not quite fast enough to avoid superspeed retaliation".
So...ok? Is Wally stealing the speed of the guy who was too fast for Superman, and, in your own words, blitz Flash himself, not a good showing for his speed steal?

Again -- the crux of the thread. Do you disagree that Flash is able to, and I quote Wally himself, "I could steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and stop him cold" https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg]? Do you disagree that this would be easily the most logical thing he would do, in order to make sure Superman never tags him? Do you disagree that Flash is faster than his heat vision/freeze breath and has solutions to avoid them?

If you don't, well, I don't see the disagreement. You don't think Flash can leave Superman a statue indefinitely? Ok. Then he steals, Superman gets some momentum and......Flash steals it again. Let's not forget, Flash himself also gets faster, the more he steals.

Point is, no matter how fast Superman is , this ability of Wally completely negates that. And Superman can't do anything about it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does he have to to control Superman's speed?
If we go by your logic yes.

https://tinyurl.com/ssydr6f

Even heat death of universe can't drain Superman's energy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Superman is just a random human who can be beaten like that.

Sure....

he has already shown that he knows how to manipulate brain function via Kinetic Energy Manipulation. Shown here, he casualy manipulates the JL's brain function via Speed Lend, which is the exact opposite of Speed Steal. So what do you think would happen if Wally used Speed Steal on brain function? Use common sense

https://i.postimg.cc/KKzJQbdY/pol.jpg

What is stopping Wally from slowing down Clark, gradually, until he is too slow to be a threat? We have literally seen Wally sapping kinetic energy from Supes while he was in mid flight. And have you forgotten that wvery ouncenof kinetic energy Wally steals instantly increases his speed? Have you also forgotten that Wally can slow down bloodflow and bodily functions? Superman wont be doing much moving while having his body, mind, and bloodflow all being slowed down.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does he have to to control Superman's speed?

If Wally doesn't speed steal, Superman can win

\unless you think wally's going to get through a 180 degree wall of force, get past a frictionless area, and dodge trip points made by superman blasting the ground in places in the middle of a fight where it's been made apparent that he'll have to run around to generate a force of a punch to knock out super who is just going to stand in one place the whole fight so it can happen.

https://i.postimg.cc/tYd90s57/soal.jpg

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Superman, he eon the last race they had.


Which race was that?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
he has already shown that he knows how to manipulate brain function via Kinetic Energy Manipulation. Shown here, he casualy manipulates the JL's brain function via Speed Lend, which is the exact opposite of Speed Steal. So what do you think would happen if Wally used Speed Steal on brain function? Use common sense

https://i.postimg.cc/KKzJQbdY/pol.jpg

What is stopping Wally from slowing down Clark, gradually, until he is too slow to be a threat? We have literally seen Wally sapping kinetic energy from Supes while he was in mid flight. And have you forgotten that wvery ouncenof kinetic energy Wally steals instantly increases his speed? Have you also forgotten that Wally can slow down bloodflow and bodily functions? Superman wont be doing much moving while having his body, mind, and bloodflow all being slowed down.
He didn't do anything to Superman, just on hippolyta. Read before posting.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He didn't do anything to Superman, just on hippolyta. Read before posting.

It was a demonstration of him USING the ability like I said in my post, read before coming to conclusions. my point stands

Originally posted by abhilegend
If we go by your logic yes.

https://tinyurl.com/ssydr6f

Even heat death of universe can't drain Superman's energy.

How would this be a counter for Speed Steal when Supes has been Speed Stolen multiple times??

Captain Cold is generation a constant field of Absolute Zero. And two, Flash was DELIBERATELY holding back and easily resisted AZ and beat Cold when he finally said **** it and went all out.

Flash speed feats dwarfs Superman's by a margin, Wallys ran the universes life span in a loop like it was nothing

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It was a demonstration of him USING the ability like I said in my post, read before coming to conclusions. my point stands
And what's that point? Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
How would this be a counter for Speed Steal when Supes has been Speed Stolen multiple times??
Because he generates it again. Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Captain Cold is generation a constant field of Absolute Zero. And two, Flash was DELIBERATELY holding back and easily resisted AZ and beat Cold when he finally said **** it and went all out.

Flash speed feats dwarfs Superman's by a margin, Wallys ran the universes life span in a loop like it was nothing
Superman's HV has casually overpowered the cold gun.

HV has been stalemated by freeze breath though.

like Wally is going to sit there and let that happen? And how is Superman going to even use Freeze Breath when his body is completely immobilized? Not to mention Wally can slow his brain function meaning even if Superman wanted to use Freeze Breath he his own thoughts aould be too slow to command his body to do it, especially before Wally takes him out.
And even if Wally allowed Supes to use Freeze Breath, not only can Wally outrun it, he can also phase through it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, I disagree with that logic, "speed steal" is just not that potent in comics.

Of course he can, he has already beaten total shut down of his body, has gone through heat death of universe. Wally? Can't even drain the momentum of a space ship fully.

https://i.ibb.co/KKzWZdC/YKCwp-Bdcz-APpe-M330-IQA0u-Xn-Y2-Y0f-Ojsuk2g-Ufb-Nv-R74-LRm3-Bn-Os-Dxfn-Kx-R94-I6-Rx-KANd2m-E3-Rs-MLAhr-VA-WM1bpm-XVL-EIG7-N-R46j-ZUN-vu265ae5avnzm-NMuto5my0sg-s1600.jpg https://i.ibb.co/CHqHkY5/If-JUkbb-JIUYGL4-Pjvw-R2-T5e-AAWl3rb-Tge1-X3-LX8-JMVKi-FOsh-AW0-Iyd6q-M6-XIq-Ar-WYz-Um8-YW52ro-Ii-QNh1-BOy9-TQs-Fyr-pew-WWQu-Ed-U5-ET0-Mp-GL1z-Ct7s-F7-BHI2w9s-Zrb-Ssxnb-A-s1600.jpg

How about that. If there's anything that objectively shows the comparison between Superman and Flash, it's Wally struggling to speed steal a falling ship while Superman goes through the heat death of the Universe

It's not Wally flat-out saying that he can steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and leave him for dead:
https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg

It's not Wally invisibly controlling Superman's speed:
https://i.imgur.com/4pTAmux.jpg

It's not Jay stealing Supes speed:
https://imgur.com/a/QjHslHk

It's not Wally stealing and redirecting Superman, Jay and Wonder Woman's speed:
https://imgur.com/a/wmyCLRe

It's not Wally speed-stealing the combined kinetic energy stress that Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter combined put on Earth:
https://imgur.com/a/hQGqWby

It's not verge-of-death Wally speed stealing Amazo's speed, who explicitly retaliated too fast for Superman
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webp
https://i.imgur.com/8hDQchE.jpg

Obviously, direct statements, speed-steals and speed manipulations of Superman directly don't really matter.

The fact of the matter is, there is no binary here. It's not "Flash steals Superman's speed and leaves him a statue for all of eternity" or "Superman just shruggs it off". The point is that Wally has the capability and done] to steal Superman's speed -- whether he gets him from 100% speed to 10% speed or 0% speed , and then randomly allows Superman back up to 30% or whatnot and doesn't keep absorbing is semantics -- point is, Superman won't be able to do anything to him, since he simply will never be allowed to be fast enough in order to do anything.

If Flash is 100 and Superman is 95, Wally can, at his own leisure, put him anywhere from 0 to 10 whenever he feel like it, IMP him, jog around, and then do it all again. Superman breathing hard won't do anything to change that.

Yeah but this Superman thinks Flash is going to end all life, so he probably just counter-vibrates the speed steal and punches through the speed force.

Wait, are you now questioning a statement made by Wally?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, are you now questioning a statement made by Wally?
Yes. Any reason I shouldn't?

Yes.

Reason?

See page 1

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
See page 1
You mean the statement which you disagreed with? So it's now acceptable when it favors Wally despite Wally never doing it?

The statement of Wally saying it's suicidal to take on Superman is at least based on comics.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean the statement which you disagreed with? So it's now acceptable when it favors Wally despite Wally never doing it?

The statement of Wally saying it's suicidal to take on Superman is at least based on comics.

Wally has committed suicide by fighting Superman?

Wally HAS affected Superman's speed before, though.

Slower and less attuned to the SF Flashes have affected Superman before.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally has committed suicide by fighting Superman?

Wally HAS affected Superman's speed before, though.

Slower and less attuned to the SF Flashes have affected Superman before.
Affecting doesn't mean he can drain Superman of all his speed and turn him into a statue as you'd like everyone to believe.

Wally has been killed by Superman level beings before.

Kindly show us where he made Superman stop cold in his tracks, permanently.

Wally has been killed by Superman level beings.

Superman has been drained by LESS THAN Wally level beings, lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yup, Superman was total statue when Jay stole his speed.

https://i.ibb.co/RcZ7XV9/RCO027.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jD9h7WR/RCO028.jpg

Oh wait, he catches up to Jay on very next page.

And of course, Wally can just stop him cold because he said so, Superman was a total statue when Wally stole his speed too. And Amazo was a total statue when Wally stole his speed, well of course. Silly me to question such scenes. The point is not to show that Jay leaves him a statue -- the point is to show that he stole Superman's speed, slowed him down, and outsped him. And that's Jay -- the osteoporosis Flash -- not Wally. I mean you can think Wally is lying when he says that he could stop Superman cold , despite the fact that he has controlled Superman's speed multiple times before. Amazo was literally frozen in the mannequin challenge ... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ca2bf115454d5eec0ffab29262954cb7.webp allowing Flash to escape. Wally could do this to Superman, imp him, then when Superman comes around, do it again, and IMP him...etc. But the fact of the matter is he doesn't even need to.

As I said, if Wally is 100 and Superman is 95, Wally can increase that gap, at his leisure, to make himself 100++ and Superman much slower. He doesn't need to "make him a statue for all eternity" --- as I said, this is not a binary.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally has been killed by Superman level beings.

Superman has been drained by LESS THAN Wally level beings, lol.
Drained to the point of being a statue?

Like who?

I'm convinced Flash can speed steal Superman effectively to keep a massive gap on their speed and become essentially untouchable to Kal.

Given the conditions in this thread though, Superman finds a way and knocks the sh_t out of Wally.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jay slowed him down for a moment, that's exactly what Wally does to others as well. You're talking about Wally making Superman a statue, which has never been done.

Yup, Amazo is literally frozen for the rest of the comic.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-of-America-2006/Issue-23?id=27422

Oh wait, he isn't. Damn it.

IMP is a threat for Superman under Grant Morrison (even Wonder Woman took like dozen of light speed punches from Zoom and under Geoff Johns Flash actually broke his shoulders tackling Zoom at 100000 MPH and Zoom fought him for several pages at lightspeed).

Flash is only a threat for Superman if we take his highest showings, mix it with no limit fallacy for speed steal and pretend that 99% of his showings don't matter. Where did I say that Amazo was frozen for the rest of the comic? You keep moving this discussion to a strawman that I never argue -- it's either "Flash freezes Superman for all of eternity" or "It won't affect Superman". That's not what this is, as I've stated now -- twice.

Amazo was momentarily frozen by having his speed stolen-- which Wally blatantly stated he could do to Superman as they were running, but didn't due to subsequent collateral damage . Wally has previously, multiple times, also manipulated, on panel, Superman's speed . Jay has slowed Supes down, easily.

We're not in a dungeons and dragons type of scenario here, where Flash slows down Superman, then his "user timeout is expired" and he can't do anything until Superman recovers. Flash drains, hits, then drains, then hits, then drains, then....you get the point, all the while Superman is helpless there. It doesn't matter how many IMPs you think Superman can take, when Wally can land them for however many times he'd like.

Imagine two cars racing, but one of the drivers has a remote control that can stop the engine of the other car, at will, while getting a boost himself every time he does it. That's Flash.

My argument is that Flash can steal Superman's speed -- whether it's perma-freeze, temporarily freeze or just a repetitive steal to amp himself, make Superman considerably slower and have a large gap is irrelevant -- functionally, they all have the same consequence, Flash has free shots on a Superman that can't touch him.

If you think that Flash won't steal Superman's speed knowing that Clark would turn him into paste when he connects , I don't know what to tell you. I guess Flash will go into a slugfest with a 'creation is on the line' Supes

Originally posted by abhilegend
You started with Flash speed stealing Superman to the win (Not even IMP). Now you're saying Wally would go on repeatedly draining his speed and punching at lightspeed (which Superman can achieve casually at this point) but no, Wally would never be touched by Superman.

Like I said CIS free doesn't means you get to control the character. Speed steal is what allows Wally to always be untouchable to Superman, allowing him free hits on a much slower opponent. That's why, as I've said, for me, it's the ace in the hole -- what Flash chooses to do next to take Supes down is at his own leisure.

I don't think 'speed steal Superman, who can tag him into paste and is trying to kill everybody' is a CIS-free Flash, but to each his own.

Agree to disagree. Suffice to say, the character you're arguing for has never appeared in comics (repeatedly speed stealing, IMPing with impunity, untouchable to Superman).

What do you think Flash would do here abhi?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you think Flash would do here abhi?
Not what you think he would do.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you think Flash would do here abhi?

Abhi:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2626780-324169_grodd_takes_flash_hits_super.jpg

Has Flash ever used this strategy of repeatedly speeding down an opponent? I'm guessing he has never needed to, but I kind of wonder if this is an at will ability he has or if it puts any stress on him

He has never done so.

Flash is a street level threat in comics, abstract level threat on forums.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not what you think he would do.

So what do you think he would do, abhi?

Bearing in mind, I am asking specifically for actions/thought procesess YOU, abhi, think that Wally would engage in when the bell rings.

Based on your knowledge of his character and under these stips.

He'd put his chin up and take Superman's punch like a man Thanos-style

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what do you think he would do, abhi?
Running, phasing and 1/10 chance speed stealing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Running, phasing and 1/10 chance speed stealing.

Wally literally started this fight off with Speed Steal. It was one of the first things he did after a short bout with him.
https://i.postimg.cc/zL8wryxq/olk.jpg

And even if Wally never did start a fight with it, theres absolutely nothing stoping him from doing so. Now have a seat and miss me with that weak ass argument.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Wally literally started this fight off with Speed Steal.

No, he started it with a series of ineffective punches, actually.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Wally literally started this fight off with Speed Steal. It was one of the first things he did after a short bout with him.
https://i.postimg.cc/zL8wryxq/olk.jpg

And even if Wally never did start a fight with it, theres absolutely nothing stoping him from doing so. Now have a seat and miss me with that weak ass argument.
Issue number with full fight?

The Flash: Iron Heights.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The Flash: Iron Heights. And Alberto lied like always, Flash started with a bunch of punches

Originally posted by abhilegend
Issue number with full fight? https://i.ibb.co/0q6xDmk/P00033.jpg https://i.ibb.co/J5z6kWH/P00034.jpg https://i.ibb.co/sV0xS9P/P00036.jpg https://i.ibb.co/nryVP7z/P00038.jpg

So in a forum fight, when he thinks Superman is about to destroy the world, he'll .....run around in circles/run straight at Superman and attempt to phase....for what purpose???

How did I lie??? So you guys can't read?


//It was ONE of the first things he did after a short bout with him//

I STATED this, read properly

They literally went at it for a few moments vefore he Speed Stole him.

You also said:
"Wally literally started this fight off with Speed Steal."

...Which is "literally" incorrect.

Thats why you take into account the entire comment. -_-

//It was one of the first things he did after a short bout with him//
He blitzed him with punches, palmed him, the said **** it and Speed Stole him, all within a relatively short amount of time. Its not like he fought and fought and fought and then finally Speed Stole him. The fight was over pretty quick, and Speed Steal was pretty quick choice.

The rest of your comment still doesn't make that statement accurate, lol.

//after a short bout with him//

https://i.postimg.cc/WFwNfLj4/sha.jpg

simple reading comprehension

You literally took one portion of the comment and ran with it without taking the rest into account LOL

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
How did I lie??? So you guys can't read?


//It was ONE of the first things he did after a short bout with him//

I STATED this, read properly Yes, I can read, And I also had read you said this

But what we actually see is Wally started with a series inefficient punches and even got hurt once

The second comment clarified what I meant by the first, lol.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
//after a short bout with him//

https://i.postimg.cc/WFwNfLj4/sha.jpg

simple reading comprehension So what you're saying is that Flash did NOT "literally start the fight off with Speed Steal"..?

https://i.imgur.com/9BO0OTR.jpg


Do I also need to post the definition of "start"? Lol.


Simple reading comprehension, indeed.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You literally took one portion of the comment and ran with it without taking the rest into account LOL Because you're implying Wally will start a fight with Speed Steal and using a scene which not actually proves Wally will do that, On the contrary, Wally started this fight with punches and even got hurted, AFTER THAT, Wally using his speed steal

There's a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN *ONE* OF THE FIRST, and THE FIRST. I blatantly said this in my first post but nah nah nah let's ignore that and take one portion of the whole comment to argue with me for the fun of it LOL

https://i.postimg.cc/G8frHkFk/Screenshot-251.png

the white knighting for abhi is amazing on this site

I already clarified, multiple times what I meant
If you dont get it, oh well. My entire comment explained what happened in the scene. Don't care how you feel about it, people with common sense would know. Dudes just arguing just to argue, i don't got time for that feminine stuff.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
the white knighting for abhi is amazing on this site it really isn't

@Alberto

You can't admit you were wrong and you don't even know the books you're referring to.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN *ONE* OF THE FIRST, and THE FIRST. I blatantly said this in my first post but nah nah nah let's ignore that and take one portion of the whole comment to argue with me for the fun of it LOL

https://i.postimg.cc/G8frHkFk/Screenshot-251.png

the white knighting for abhi is amazing on this site The statement you made was incorrect, though. Flash did NOT "literally start the fight off with Speed Steal." I understand that you can never admit when you're wrong(that's how you roll)... But you were. Simple.

And NO ONE "white knights" abhi here, lol. You're just upset... Calm down.

So Alberto lied.

Shocker!!!!

Originally posted by Parmaniac
it really isn't
Lol yeah, I'm probably one of the most hated posters here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lol yeah, I'm probably one of the most hated posters here.

You've had like a dozen of bans and plenty more are coming.

If that is white knighting, then we live in some bizarro world on this forum.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've had like a dozen of bans and plenty more are coming.

If that is white knighting, then we live in some bizarro world on this forum. That explains why Flash "literally started with speed steal"

Originally posted by Galan007
The statement you made was incorrect, though. Flash did NOT "literally start the fight off with Speed Steal." I understand that you can never admit when you're wrong(that's how you roll)... But you were. Simple.

And NO ONE "white knights" abhi here, lol. You're just upset... Calm down.

EXCEPT I wasn't wrong, my 2nd comment CLARIFY's what i meant. "ONE OF THE FIRST" is not the same as "THE FIRST" But i get you wanna get me back for getting debunked on that mxy thread, it's ok. You're obviously emotionally invested into this so i'll let you have it so you can feel proud of yourself

alberto has obviously been triggered. he'll cry it out on his own.

"white knighting" is such a snowflake sjw term anyway. basically if you disagree with someone, then you're automatically white knighting the other guy in their world. it's so pathetic to resort to that. usually only happens when feefees get hurt though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You've had like a dozen of bans and plenty more are coming.

If that is white knighting, then we live in some bizarro world on this forum.