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who wins

Bump.

Kal Kent wins.

its Old King Thor not RKT though

Oh! Kal wins then

Kal.

Kal slaps them around

I didn't think there could possibly be that many ways to make a Superman vs. Thor thread.

OKT destroys.

Kal Kent dominates.

OKT is universal, isn't he?
I am not sure whether He can compate with Kal.
Thor is non-factor.

Again with featless kal kent getting wins just because of his name. what feats does he have? his best feat is failing to stop a charging galaxy. he couldnt defeat solaris on his own and needed green lantern to help him. he couldnt stop the cronoverse creture on his own and went after it with the superman squad. he punched time but it almost killed him. he got owned by the else man. he got one shotted by ultraman. he got owned physically by batman 1 million. kal kent is the most hyped character by comic book fans out there. his best feats are almost being good enough for the job, but not good enough.

well for starter when ultraman hv'd him, he was depowered without sunlight

also team 2 is just not fast enough to counter yoctosecond combat speed

https://i.imgur.com/qxlYllT.jpg

Originally posted by MrMind
well for starter when ultraman hv'd him, he was depowered without sunlight

also team 2 is just not fast enough to counter yoctosecond combat speed

https://i.imgur.com/qxlYllT.jpg

come on man, thats the argument everybody use for kal kent, that he is depowered because he is not glued to the super sun. but in the 1 million arc it was stated that i takes him something like 2 days before he start to lose his powers. and what about batman 1 million beating him up physically in their own universe? or is it that kal kent must hug the super sun in order to not be depowered?

also, when kal kent is depowered, its usually stated on panel. in this case, nothing was stated to suggest that.

and once again, you post some hyperbole scan of him having the speed of blah blah blah, and the abilities to do blah blah blah, but when its money time, he has no feats to suggest he is stronger than high heralds.

nothing personal against you my man, sorry if my argument comes off a little aggressive, its not towards you, its towards this hype around kal kent that i simply cant understand. he is always stated to have the speed and strength of nanoziliogazilio what ever seconds, but when its time to throw hands, he gets the hands.

Originally posted by MrMind
well for starter when ultraman hv'd him, he was depowered without sunlight

also team 2 is just not fast enough to counter yoctosecond combat speed

https://i.imgur.com/qxlYllT.jpg


His VISION tracked them in yoctoseconds, trying to see what this have to do with his reflexes.

WAIT DID HE JUST SAY THAT WAS COMBAT SPEED?

"my 5d vision tracked"

YOU got that as COMBAT SPEED? That's the most hilarious thing i've ever seen

I'm saving that for future purposes lmaoooooo

"my 5d vision tracked"

is the same as combat reflexes DC fanboys ARE THE worst

Perceiving something at those speedsDOES NOT mean you can move that fast.
Quintavius Quire FOR EXAMPLE, ANYBODY with common sense knows this


I'm saving that

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
WAIT DID HE JUST SAY THAT WAS COMBAT SPEED?

"my 5d vision tracked"

YOU got that as COMBAT SPEED? That's the most hilarious thing i've ever seen

What do you mean? I visually tracked a jet moving faster than sound. Are you telling me that I don't have faster than sound reflexes? 😫

Nah man you totally do

That's even 5D , the scan made it clear TIME pass differently in that dimension ...
How does this even relate to 3D perception talk less of combat ... LOL

BUT this is the same dude that talks about ppl not reading scan, this actually was a great laugh not even gonna lie LOL

I guess this is a major new speed feat for Thanos below:

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/img_0678.jpg

Ah, perfect, now you're here:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hulkster:

Are you saying Brainiac consumed Imperiex? Asking for the third time.

Asking for the sixth time.

Everyday these guys just amaze me and not in a smart intelligent way.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah, perfect, now you're here:



Asking for the sixth time.

Thats not relevant to the thread

Originally posted by Diesldude


Everyday these guys just amaze me and not in a smart intelligent way.

Soo YOU think he's right?

go on tell me how perception speed is the same as combat speed

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Thats not relevant to the thread

Yah, but Hulkster is always missing when I post. I can ask the thread starter if he would allow me this tiny indulgence What are the odds he says yes?

He ignored you like I did, nothing wrong with it. PR told you multiple times to stop derailing threads, if you want him to respond so desperately than shoot him a pm lmao

prove it. EXPLAIN how that translates to combat speed, I'll wait

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
He ignored you like I did, nothing wrong with it. PR told you multiple times to stop derailing threads, if you want him to respond so desperately than shoot him a pm lmao

Oh did he? I didn't know that. You talk for him now?

How is he embarrassing himself Diesldude?

Originally posted by carver9
How is he embarrassing himself Diesldude?

you claimed than we were embarassing ourselves and we asked you to prove it, and you come with the "I DoNt kNow how I JusT tHiNk U Guys R wRoNG BecAuSe I dOnT lIkE U!!!" Excuse

concession accepted, don't cheer lead your boy if you can't even defend him properly lmaoo

Originally posted by carver9
His VISION tracked them in yoctoseconds, trying to see what this have to do with his reflexes.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
WAIT DID HE JUST SAY THAT WAS COMBAT SPEED?

"my 5d vision tracked"

YOU got that as COMBAT SPEED? That's the most hilarious thing i've ever seen

Originally posted by TheHulkster
What do you mean? I visually tracked a jet moving faster than sound. Are you telling me that I don't have faster than sound reflexes? 😫


I think you three have misunderstood the scan.

Kal is saying his vision tracked Kosmos over the time span of yoctoseconds. The ACTION of tracking Kosmos with his vision took time - yoctoseconds.

To use Hulkster's analogy, a more accurate sentence would be 'I visually tracked a jet moving faster than sound.....in a nanosecond'.

Kal tracked Kosmos....in yoctoseconds. THAT'S the speed feat. It took him yoctoseconds to do, but in that timeframe, he is able to track Kosmos. IOW - his reflexes operate on that level.

See how nice I am?

We KNOW what the scan is about, Mrmind claimed it was a "COMBAT SPEED" feat, which. it isn't

It's a perception feat, nobody misunderstood anything

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
We KNOW what the scan is about, Mrmind claimed it was a "COMBAT SPEED" feat, which. it isn't

It's a perception feat, nobody misunderstood anything

Yes, the perception feat that took place over yoctoseconds. If Kal can perceive and react over timeframes as tiny as yoctoseconds, that's pretty good reflexes, no?

I'm pretty sure Hulkster misunderstood, but as he is not replying, maybe you should ask him lol.

Originally posted by carver9
His VISION tracked them in yoctoseconds, trying to see what this have to do with his reflexes.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Perceiving something at those speedsDOES NOT mean you can move that fast.
Quintavius Quire FOR EXAMPLE, ANYBODY with common sense knows this


I'm saving that

Originally posted by TheHulkster
What do you mean? I visually tracked a jet moving faster than sound. Are you telling me that I don't have faster than sound reflexes? 😫

We literally said it wasn't a combat speed feat which Mrmind claimed it to be

LEARN how to read saint

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
We literally said it wasn't a combat speed feat which Mrmind claimed it to be

LEARN how to read saint

But it is.

If I can react and perceive on those timeframes, a punch or a kick from anyone/anything would be slow as hell to me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But it is.

If I can react and perceive on those timeframes, a punch or a kick from anyone/anything would be slow as hell to me.

but can his body limbs react accordingly to his abilities to sense? its just like his abilitiy to calculate billion scenarios in seconds. its cerebral abilities but that doesnt mean his body can react at the same time. if that was the case, he wouldnt get his ass kicked all the time. if a person can think fast, it doesnt mean he can move his body fast.

Originally posted by Dareangel
but can his body limbs react accordingly to his abilities to sense? its just like his abilitiy to calculate billion scenarios in seconds. its cerebral abilities but that doesnt mean his body can react at the same time. if that was the case, he wouldnt get his ass kicked all the time. if a person can think fast, it doesnt mean he can move his body fast.

Remember that Kal also has TK, powerful enough to (with help) push a galaxy back, and super-ESP (which is advanced enough that he calls J'onn's TP 'an antique'). He even erases J'onn's memories of meeting him:

https://i.postimg.cc/fy29Jhc2/RCO021-1582323499.jpg

So he has powers and abilities which work at the speed of his mind. In short, on yoctosecond timescales

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Remember that Kal also has TK, powerful enough to (with help) push a galaxy back, and super-ESP (which is advanced enough that he calls J'onn's TP 'an antique')

So he has powers and abilities which work at the speed of his mind. In short, on yoctosecond timescales

he wasnt able to push a galaxy back. he couldnt handle a charging galaxy and only with the help of titano they were able to stop it.

he has telepathy and super ESP? yes. he can use those abilities really fast? yes. it doesnt matter if its nano seconds, yacoseconds or what ever seconds, i will agree that he can use those powers on his enemies before they reach him. question is, how powerful are those abilities and are they able to place him anywhere near the level people try to make him. his force vision coudlnt handle a galaxy. his force vision only with the help of green lantern was able to contain solaris. thats about it. those are his best feats. his best feats are not being good enough on his own to handle the situation.
dont get me wrong, i love DC and i love MARVEL. I am not taking sides in this DC VS MARVEL thing. but i just dont understand why people always claim that kal kent is so powerful, when in reality ultraman one shotted the guy. again, ULTRAMAN ONE SHOTTED HIM!!!

Not stipulating combat or percep speed, but sorta agree with Saint regarding the scan. If u take SM1Mil at his word, he was able to track Kosmos in yoctoseconds. That's what Kal is trying convey. Not sure if he was talking to himself or to someone.

Originally posted by Dareangel
he wasnt able to push a galaxy back. he couldnt handle a charging galaxy and only with the help of titano they were able to stop it.

he has telepathy and super ESP? yes. he can use those abilities really fast? yes. it doesnt matter if its nano seconds, yacoseconds or what ever seconds, i will agree that he can use those powers on his enemies before they reach him. question is, how powerful are those abilities and are they able to place him anywhere near the level people try to make him. his force vision coudlnt handle a galaxy. his force vision only with the help of green lantern was able to contain solaris. thats about it. those are his best feats. his best feats are not being good enough on his own to handle the situation.
dont get me wrong, i love DC and i love MARVEL. I am not taking sides in this DC VS MARVEL thing. but i just dont understand why people always claim that kal kent is so powerful, when in reality ultraman one shotted the guy. again, ULTRAMAN ONE SHOTTED HIM!!!

Ah yes, but still, stopping a charging GALAXY - even with help - is still pretty damn high end TK, no? I mean...it's an entire galaxy, lol. Even if all he did was 1% of the work, and Titano did 99%....

And as I showed above, he mindwiped J'onn, who has some of the best TP feats in DC.

Plus, you know...he could be immune to magic.

https://i.imgur.com/Zl8TnEI.jpg

kal wins.

dareangel is just a butthurt troll. always has been,

thorbag triggered, not surprised, it's not like you read comics and your opinion matters but cool

kal stomps

MsMind, please... You get triggered over the smallest things. If u conti ue ull turn this into another flame thread.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But it is.

If I can react and perceive on those timeframes, a punch or a kick from anyone/anything would be slow as hell to me.

No it isn't. PERCEPTION speed is NOT combat speed, stop it. Thor also tracked a ship moving at MFTL speeds

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
kal wins.

dareangel is just a butthurt troll. always has been,



yep, kal has yoctosecond reaction speed, Light travels 2.9979x10^(-16) meters in one yoctosecond

he can literally rape OKT and Thor, throw asgard into sun, slaps Odin's head off, freeze breath surtur into popsicle, one shot the 9 realms

before team 2 realize their heads are on the floor

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No it isn't. PERCEPTION speed is NOT combat speed, stop it. Thor also tracked a ship moving at MFTL speeds

Perception speed is heavily tied to combat speed though. Unless of course when "skill" is played up and things like comic fu breaks that logical boundary.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No it isn't. PERCEPTION speed is NOT combat speed, stop it. Thor also tracked a ship moving at MFTL speeds

You are still misunderstanding the scan.

Post Thor tracking a ship within the timespan of yoctoseconds, please. Your example is a completely different scenario.

Using Hulkster's analogy:

If I track a supersonic jet flying over head, that does NOT mean I have supersonic reflexes - I 10,000% agree with Hulkster and you on this.

HOWEVER, if I track a supersonic jet flying overhead in nanoseconds/picoseconds....then yes, I have supersonic (probably much much better, actually) reaction speeds.

It's the TIME taken to track objects, NOT the speed at which the objects travel, that matters.

Thats what Kal is trying to convey

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You are still misunderstanding the scan.

Post Thor tracking a ship within the timespan of yoctoseconds, please. Your example is a completely different scenario.

Using Hulkster's analogy:

If I track a supersonic jet flying over head, that does NOT mean I have supersonic reflexes - I 10,000% agree with Hulkster and you on this.

HOWEVER, if I track a supersonic jet flying overhead in nanoseconds/picoseconds....then yes, I have supersonic (probably much much better, actually) reaction speeds.

It's the TIME taken to track objects, NOT the speed at which the objects travel, that matters.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You are still misunderstanding the scan.

Post Thor tracking a ship within the timespan of yoctoseconds, please. Your example is a completely different scenario.

Using Hulkster's analogy:

If I track a supersonic jet flying over head, that does NOT mean I have supersonic reflexes - I 10,000% agree with Hulkster and you on this.

HOWEVER, if I track a supersonic jet flying overhead in nanoseconds/picoseconds....then yes, I have supersonic (probably much much better, actually) reaction speeds.

It's the TIME taken to track objects, NOT the speed at which the objects travel, that matters.

None of that is relevant, it's a perception speed period.

surfer Can perceive billions of stars while traveling at light years speed, doesn't mean his combat speed is MFTL!!! now
https://i.postimg.cc/gnchs0Ny/LStJ569.jpg

Don't make me pull out the calc for it, a low end is MUCH faster than attoseconds

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
None of that is relevant, it's a perception speed period.

surfer Can perceive billions of stars while traveling at light years speed, doesn't mean his combat speed is MFTL!!! now
https://i.postimg.cc/gnchs0Ny/LStJ569.jpg

Don't make me pull out the calc for it, a low end is MUCH faster than attoseconds

Erm - your scan has two holes in it:

1. Surfer is ripping a portal to warp through
2. The scan literally says they can't track it - galaxies streak past them in a blur, and their minds don't even have a chance to fully comprehend the beauty.

Thirdly - it's not about the SPEED of the objects being tracked, it's about the TIME taken to track them.

Please try and understand what I am trying to say before simply dismissing it out of hand just because it disagrees with you.

When i tell you to read scans properly i mean it

https://i.postimg.cc/v4PHyrFT/cals.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/qzWHx1T8/bils.jpg

Those are the main points of the billion star scan


The fact that he can perceive all of those while at that speed


Every change noted

Duh, of course Surfer folds space itself. That's why his speed feats are so amazing

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
When i tell you to read scans properly i mean it

https://i.postimg.cc/v4PHyrFT/cals.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/qzWHx1T8/bils.jpg

Those are the main points of the billion star scan


The fact that he can perceive all of those while at that speed


Every change noted

Erm...your original scan didn't show that lmao. This is what you posted:
https://i.postimg.cc/TYgcRLbs/LStJ569.jpg

Yes, I was gonna edit it, it's a different instance

How dare DS not read a different scan that was not there properly.


Read things properly DS.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yes, I was gonna edit it, it's a different instance

So don't accuse people of not reading your scans. I mean it.

Note that it states light years transverse in seconds. Meaning more then one light year is done


He's traveling at light years while perceiving billions of stars at once

NOW go ahead and tell me Surfer has attosecond combat speed

https://i.postimg.cc/t72RQ00y/tes.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yes, I was gonna edit it, it's a different instance

Come on Alberto, u better than that...
K carry on.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Note that it states light years transverse in seconds. Meaning more then one light year is done


He's traveling at light years while perceiving billions of stars at once

NOW go ahead and tell me Surfer has attosecond combat speed

https://i.postimg.cc/t72RQ00y/tes.jpg


I don't think you understand just how fast attoseconds are.


Because it's waaaay faster then light speed x2. Much, MUCH faster.

the low calc I did for the feat is way faster than attoseconds

By all means, post the math.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
kal wins.

dareangel is just a butthurt troll. always has been,

man shut yo ass up. got to love people who cant discuss something without making it personal. if you want to add something and show why am i wrong, go ahead. if not, then buzz off troll.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's a reaction feat. Saying his 5d vision tracked in yoctoseconds, is the same as saying he reacted within yoctoseconds to track him.


The scan makes it clear this is the speed it took him to track and focus on his target. It's a reaction feat.

Not in the least bit. It's purely a measure of the time it takes for him to see something which is purely a feat of perception. It right there along the lines of perceiving item moving fast, counting huge numbers in a whim, etc.

Reaction speed is the speed of your reaction.

First of all you need to note the circumference of a star then times that by 1 billion. Then note that number as around a second

Our sun since it's the smallest type of star


Surface area = 6.088 X 10^12 per square kilometre


Circumference - 2,713,406 miles aka 4,366,813 km


Radius - 695,700 km


So what weird looking at is a surface area of 6,088,000,000,000 or 6 trillion


That will be multiplied by the circumference. Then the radius. Then by 4 since the radius is only a quarter of the sun


Then the answer is multiplied by a billion

https://i.postimg.cc/8FC6hdVg/7fa.jpg

So your looking at this number


In a second. In kilometres


https://i.postimg.cc/7JL0wpqc/msla.jpg


That's it in miles


So rounding it up would be 4.6 x 10^34


That number would look something like this


46,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 m/s


Or 46 nonillion m/s


That's lower end


The feat itself lasted mere seconds


If not a second. That is the lower end of the calculation excluding the different sizes of stars


And that's just 1 billion. Considering the fact that it states billions upon billions

I didn't even calc the distance between his line of sight and the potential placements of the stars

Now GO AHEAD and tell us that Surfer's faster than Superman in combat speed since perception translates to combat now

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah yes, but still, stopping a charging GALAXY - even with help - is still pretty damn high end TK, no? I mean...it's an entire galaxy, lol. Even if all he did was 1% of the work, and Titano did 99%....

And as I showed above, he mindwiped J'onn, who has some of the best TP feats in DC.

Plus, you know...he could be immune to magic.

https://i.imgur.com/Zl8TnEI.jpg

yes its a good feat. but as far as combat feats, he really gets destroyed and easily. else man dominated him and made him fall with tears. literally. batman 1 million owned him in combat. ultraman one shotted him. i mean he has many exotic powers, but non of them seems to really work in a combat situation. he just gets owned left and right.

mainstream superman has better perception speed, combat speed, travel speed than surfer

kal kent is a more powerful mainstream superman

not hard to understand

no, no he doesn't, not based on my calc

you wanna do clark superman vs surfer speed feats comparison?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
First of all you need to note the circumference of a star then times that by 1 billion. Then note that number as around a second

Our sun since it's the smallest type of star


Surface area = 6.088 X 10^12 per square kilometre


Circumference - 2,713,406 miles aka 4,366,813 km


Radius - 695,700 km


So what weird looking at is a surface area of 6,088,000,000,000 or 6 trillion


That will be multiplied by the circumference. Then the radius. Then by 4 since the radius is only a quarter of the sun


Then the answer is multiplied by a billion

https://i.postimg.cc/8FC6hdVg/7fa.jpg

So your looking at this number


In a second. In kilometres


https://i.postimg.cc/7JL0wpqc/msla.jpg


That's it in miles


So rounding it up would be 4.6 x 10^34


That number would look something like this


46,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 m/s


Or 46 nonillion m/s


That's lower end


The feat itself lasted mere seconds


If not a second. That is the lower end of the calculation excluding the different sizes of stars


And that's just 1 billion. Considering the fact that it states billions upon billions

I didn't even calc the distance between his line of sight and the potential placements of the stars

When you dispute this, we'll believe Superman has better *perception* speed than Surfer, until then no he doesn't

Like I SAID if PERCEPTION translates to combat than Surfer's absolutely faster than Superman, which is it

"Yoctoseconds". "5D Vision". Point still stands. The scan shows Kal exiting his own portal as he makes his statement, so all of his tracking is visually tracking Kosmos to another dimension/time.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Not in the least bit. It's purely a measure of the time it takes for him to see something which is purely a feat of perception. It right there along the lines of perceiving item moving fast, counting huge numbers in a whim, etc.

Reaction speed is the speed of your reaction.


You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.


If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.

Originally posted by cdtm
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.


If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.

it doesnt mean his body is as fast to react to it. someone can think really fast, doesnt mean he can also move his limbs in that speed. professor X is able to read dozens of minds in seconds. would you argue he has super human speed as far as movement?

Originally posted by Dareangel
it doesnt mean his body is as fast to react to it. someone can think really fast, doesnt mean he can also move his limbs in that speed. professor X is able to read dozens of minds in seconds. would you argue he has super human speed as far as movement?


He'd need to move his field of vision to track Kosmos. Otherwise he'd be staring straight ahead, or in a random spot.


The fact he can track Kosmos implies he can move his field of vision to track him.

Originally posted by cdtm
He'd need to move his field of vision to track Kosmos. Otherwise he'd be staring straight ahead, or in a random spot.


The fact he can track Kosmos implies he can move his field of vision to track him.

he simply used his cerebral abilities to track him down. his so called vision is the way he calls it. like psychic vision for example. again, him using cerebral abilities in a specific amount of time, doesnt mean his body can move at that speed, like the example with professor X reading dozens minds in seconds. kal kent can calculate in nanoseconds and whats not. but as far as his physical abilities, or abilities that can help him in combat, he never demonstrated such speed. his durability sucks as well to be honest. ultraman one shotted him with his heat vision. i always saw kal kent as a physically weaker kal EL but simply with more exotic powers that are not necessarily useful in combat. i think all his side powers are confusing people, making them believe they make him a trans. people even claimed he is a low skyfather which is absurd.

Originally posted by cdtm
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.


If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.

That's quite a slippery slope. The ability to avoid defenses at light speed would logically equate to light speed perception.

https://m.imgur.com/a/ScV1bx5

The common response is that it doesn't work that way in comics. That should apply evenly to all perception feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You are still misunderstanding the scan.

Post Thor tracking a ship within the timespan of yoctoseconds, please. Your example is a completely different scenario.

Using Hulkster's analogy:

If I track a supersonic jet flying over head, that does NOT mean I have supersonic reflexes - I 10,000% agree with Hulkster and you on this.

HOWEVER, if I track a supersonic jet flying overhead in nanoseconds/picoseconds....then yes, I have supersonic (probably much much better, actually) reaction speeds.

It's the TIME taken to track objects, NOT the speed at which the objects travel, that matters. Indeed.

And Kal was using his 5D Vision to perceive, track, and follow Kosmos through the timestream on a yoctosecond-by-yoctosecond basis. Why wouldn't that be applicable in a combat situation?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's quite a slippery slope. The ability to avoid defenses at light speed would logically equate to light speed perception.

https://m.imgur.com/a/ScV1bx5

The common response is that it doesn't work that way in comics. That should apply evenly to all perception feats.


I never said it doesn't work that way. Surfer is definitely mftl.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
We KNOW what the scan is about, Mrmind claimed it was a "COMBAT SPEED" feat, which. it isn't

It's a perception feat, nobody misunderstood anything

now time for you to prove perception speed is unrelated to combat speed

Originally posted by cdtm
You hear a jet, you see a jet, you focus on it in the distance. That's a reaction.


If Thor throws a hammer and Kal can percieve it, he can dodge it.

remember, he has TK AND TP. So any argument about limb movements is moot.

His force vision can stop a Galaxy going half the speed of light too. Lol

Originally posted by cdtm
I never said it doesn't work that way. Surfer is definitely mftl.

Okay, cool. Your point is legit.

Originally posted by MrMind
behold, the annihilation of alberto

I said perception speed, not combat speed

*PERCEPTION*

*COMBAT*

not remotely the same

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Okay, cool. Your point is legit.

It's the same point as mine

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

And Kal was using his 5D Vision to perceive, track, and follow Kosmos through the timestream on a yoctosecond-by-yoctosecond basis. Why wouldn't that be applicable in a combat situation?

I'm not sure why it wouldn't.

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

And Kal was using his 5D Vision to perceive, track, and follow Kosmos through the timestream on a yoctosecond-by-yoctosecond basis. Why wouldn't that be applicable in a combat situation?

Perception Speed would be how fast your mind can process new information.
Combat Speed would be how fast you can throw a punch and avoid attacks at close range. Common sense, its not that hard to grasp

But Kal Kent has powers that don't depend on him throwing punches and kicks though.

He has telepathy and telekinesis.

SAINT, Your mind thinks and acts more quickly then your body. There is always a delay in your brain signals, you'll tell yourself to move a certain way, but that information has to process and send the appropriate signals to various body parts to do what you want.

SO, no it's absolutely not a combat feat, because processing information and moving your body are two entirely different situations.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I said perception speed, not combat speed

you are really bad at this

perception speed is the most important part of combat speed

superman was moving billions pieces of moon rocks back to the way it was before moon was shattered. That's perception speed.


Originally posted by MrMind
now time for you to prove perception speed is unrelated to combat speed

in the Warhammer 40,000 Universe...
Space Marines can think and process information in Nano-Seconds.
However their actual movement speed is around 50MPH.
And in combat they can swing a blade faster then the eye can see. In one scenario, a Marine kills 5 assailants in 3 seconds.

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

And Kal was using his 5D Vision to perceive, track, and follow Kosmos through the timestream on a yoctosecond-by-yoctosecond basis. Why wouldn't that be applicable in a combat situation?

"Follow" is your addition. He only references tracking when mentioning yoctoseconds. There is no indication that he travels any distance other than the couple of feet necessary to exit his portal and even if he hypethetically does follow Kosmos, would it not still only amount to travel speed?

Originally posted by MrMind
you are really bad at this

perception speed is the most important part of combat speed

superman was moving billions pieces of moon rocks back to the way it was before moon was shattered. That's perception speed.

It is important yes, because the faster you can process information the better you can react to a situation.
However it does not dictate your actual speed in combat or your raw speed. Common sense

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's the same point as mine

He makes the same point for Surfer. One's point is legitimate if they apply it consistently a cross the board.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It is important yes, because the faster you can process information the better you can react to a situation.
However it does not dictate your actual speed in combat or your raw speed. Common sense

don't move goalpost, you were saying surfer is faster than superman, you were proven wrong.

now this is an entire different topic, you need to use common sense,

combat speed is just perception speed with muscle movement

kal kent is a future more advance version of mainstream superman with fifth dimensional imps heritage. his strength and muscle movement scales higher than mainstream superman, his speed and agility absolutely scales to yoctosecond perception

You showed a combat speed of Superman rebuilding a moon while I asked you to show a perception speed, you didn't prove anybody wrong

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You showed a combat speed of Superman rebuilding a moon while I asked you to show a perception speed, you didn't prove anybody wrong



quit trolling, moon rebuilding feat shows perception speed

you just don't understand basic logic

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
SAINT, Your mind thinks and acts more quickly then your body. There is always a delay in your brain signals, you'll tell yourself to move a certain way, but that information has to process and send the appropriate signals to various body parts to do what you want.

SO, no it's absolutely not a combat feat, because processing information and moving your body are two entirely different situations. But Kal Kent doesn't need to kick your face off to engage in combat. He has TP, TK, Force Vision etc.

What part of this are you struggling with?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
He makes the same point for Surfer. One's point is legitimate if they apply it consistently a cross the board.

Well...yes. I never said Surfer didn't have the perception feats? I am genuinely confused as to what point you're trying to make.

Is it that I'm hypocritical and have double standards? That's based on nothing. I didn't say Surfer didn't have the feats of fighting at extremely fast speeds (although truth be told, I didn't look at the numbers Alberto spewed).

So I guess we're all in agreement here. Kal Kent stomps.

Aside from speed, OKT is likely more powerful in terms of raw power. Durability too if he's in his peak.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Aside from speed, OKT is likely more powerful in terms of raw power. Durability too if he's in his peak.

Are you assigning no credence then to the statement of him being immune to magic?

And as for durability, what TP feats does he have?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
But Kal Kent doesn't need to kick your face off to engage in combat. He has TP, TK, Force Vision etc.

What part of this are you struggling with?

but how strong and useful in combat are those powers? failed to stop a charging galaxy. needed help from green lantern to contain solaris. those powers didnt help him against the else man. they didnt help him when he got one shotted by ultra man or when he got his ass kicked by batman 1 million. where were all his uber senses and perceptions or what ever when ultraman beamed his ass into the dirt? overall this is the comic book VS forum and we ask how well a specific character can fight. when it comes to thinking fast and tracking down, kal kent is awesome. when it comes to fighting someone, this guy gets his ass handed to him. his cool exotic powers are not so useful in combat as presented on panel.

I dunno why you keep bringing up the ultraman showings, kal was depowered without sunlight,
comic 101, context, learn them

kal isn't fighting a galaxy here, he's fighting merely 2 thors

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are you assigning no credence then to the statement of him being immune to magic?

And as for durability, what TP feats does he have?
Being immune to magic doesnt mean he's immune to OKT attacks.

TP? I mentioned durability... TP could be a way to circumvent durability i guess. But not sure on his tp stuff.

lol kal was using force vision to temp stop galaxy coming at him in super speed, but okt who was only hauling stars around has more raw power,

ok thorbag

not to mention Kal has magic immunity too, this thread is gold

and yes magic immunity means he is immune to OKT's attacks

remember how prime shrugs off black adam and mordru?

that's exactly what's happening here

Originally posted by Dareangel
but how strong and useful in combat are those powers? failed to stop a charging galaxy. needed help from green lantern to contain solaris. those powers didnt help him against the else man. they didnt help him when he got one shotted by ultra man or when he got his ass kicked by batman 1 million. where were all his uber senses and perceptions or what ever when ultraman beamed his ass into the dirt? overall this is the comic book VS forum and we ask how well a specific character can fight. when it comes to thinking fast and tracking down, kal kent is awesome. when it comes to fighting someone, this guy gets his ass handed to him. his cool exotic powers are not so useful in combat as presented on panel.

Erm I think you are misremembering some of those events.

He didn't need GL's help - it was the other way around. And you realise it's a bit of double standards, right?

He needed help to stop an entire galaxy - it's a low showing for him
Kyle needed help to contain Solaris - it's a low showing for....Superman? Weird.

Anyway, he also restrained Hourman 1 Million.

Overall this is a comic book VS forum where PIS is ignored.

Originally posted by MrMind
I dunno why you keep bringing up the ultraman showings, kal was depowered without sunlight,
comic 101, context, learn them

kal isn't fighting a galaxy here, he's fighting merely 2 thors

show the evidence that he was depowered. it was never stated on panel that he is depowered and in the 1 million arc it was stated it takes 2 days for him to start losing powers. yeah, context, use it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Being immune to magic doesnt mean he's immune to OKT attacks.

TP? I mentioned durability... TP could be a way to circumvent durability i guess. But not sure on his tp stuff.

I thought so.

So OKT doesn't have the showings for TP resistance. I wasn't sure why you mentioned durability, mainly because it would be useless.

Originally posted by MrMind
lol kal was using force vision to temp stop galaxy coming at him in super speed, but okt who was only hauling stars around has more raw power,

ok thorbag

not to mention Kal has magic immunity too, this thread is gold

and yes magic immunity means he is immune to OKT's attacks

remember how prime shrugs off black adam and mordru?

that's exactly what's happening here

your logic is amazing, i question kal kents statues, so i must be a thor fanboy. my man you are like them crazy politicians with this "you are either with me or against me" thing.

he didnt temp stop anything. he was trying to stop a galaxy but he couldnt. failed. means its not within his powers.

if you will use reading comprehension, and actually read my posts, you will notice that i never stated who i think will win. my whole point is to question this statues people give kal kent.

as for magic imunity? sure it can help him. but it wont stop him from getting his ass kikced in H2H. once again, what are his fighting feats to suggest he is even a high herald?

Originally posted by Dareangel
show the evidence that he was depowered. it was never stated on panel that he is depowered and in the 1 million arc it was stated it takes 2 days for him to start losing powers. yeah, context, use it.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0hjHPtP/RCO002-1480667021.jpg
Context.

Zoomed in:

https://i.postimg.cc/vB2tzpJp/RCO002-1480667021.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm I think you are misremembering some of those events.

He didn't need GL's help - it was the other way around. And you realise it's a bit of double standards, right?

He needed help to stop an entire galaxy - it's a low showing for him
Kyle needed help to contain Solaris - it's a low showing for....Superman? Weird.

Anyway, he also restrained Hourman 1 Million.

Overall this is a comic book VS forum where PIS is ignored.

you dont understand. my point is that he couldnt do any of those feats alone. he needed extra help to achieve them.

what PIS? this guy has like several appearances that we can count on both hands andalmost in any single fight he had he got his ass spanked.

he restrained an hourman that was part of his team and wasnt fighting him. thats not a fighting feat. fighting is when the elseman beat him down to tears. fighting is when batman beat his ass down. fighting is when ultraman beamed him into the dirt with 1 shot. thats fighting.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you dont understand. my point is that he couldnt do any of those feats alone. he needed extra help to achieve them.

what PIS? this guy has like several appearances that we can count on both hands andalmost in any single fight he had he got his ass spanked.

he restrained an hourman that was part of his team and wasnt fighting him. thats not a fighting feat. fighting is when the elseman beat him down to tears. fighting is when batman beat his ass down. fighting is when ultraman beamed him into the dirt with 1 shot. thats fighting.

Hourman WAS fighting him. Read his words:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/5025782-hourman11p01.jpg

But you can't prove he couldn't hold Solaris on his own.

And holding back the weight of even 1% of a galaxy is phucking impressive.

As for Ultraman, read my scans above.

Do you have the Batman 1 Million scans? I sure hope it's not when he was depowered.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.postimg.cc/J0hjHPtP/RCO002-1480667021.jpg
Context.

Zoomed in:

https://i.postimg.cc/vB2tzpJp/RCO002-1480667021.jpg

yes, context my man. they lost it temporary when that happened. at that moment. but they got their powers back. you are trying to say that during this entire arc the JLA 1 million were powerless? thats simply not true. kal kent could fly and still used his powers. wonder woman had her powers during the arc. please, think before you post.

I LITERALLY tell saint to think before he post everytime

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hourman WAS fighting him. Read his words:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/5025782-hourman11p01.jpg

But you can't prove he couldn't hold Solaris on his own.

And holding back the weight of even 1% of a galaxy is phucking impressive.

As for Ultraman, read my scans above.

Do you have the Batman 1 Million scans? I sure hope it's not when he was depowered.

dont try to mislead me, i know the comics very well. hourman is part of their team and he got mad but he wasnt fighting anyone. thats why he told superman to let him go instead of trying to actually fight him. again, dont twist things because you know very well what happened before that and the overall context.

as for kal kent handeling solaris on his own, you are funny. during the 1 million arc kal kent explained and admited they couldnt stop solaris. if he was powerful enough to stop solaris, he would have done it by now, and wouldnt let solaris gain all that power and cause all this mess. but with the help of green lantern he was able to contain it.

bruh, both him and batman 1 million were in their universe. please, stop with this "if kal kent doesnt have the super sun stuck up his ass he is depowered" thing. its redicilous.

Originally posted by Dareangel
yes, context my man. they lost it temporary when that happened. at that moment. but they got their powers back. you are trying to say that during this entire arc the JLA 1 million were powerless? thats simply not true. kal kent could fly and still used his powers. wonder woman had her powers during the arc. please, think before you post.

https://i.postimg.cc/59zLR7Cd/RCO007-w-1480666962.jpg

As per Batman's words, before he fights Superman 1M.

Later on, the powers return, yes - and they immediately start waning.

https://i.postimg.cc/hjWTDTk3/RCO013-1480667021.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.postimg.cc/59zLR7Cd/RCO007-w-1480666962.jpg

As per Batman's words, before he fights Superman 1M.

Later on, the powers return, yes - and they immediately start waning.

https://i.postimg.cc/hjWTDTk3/RCO013-1480667021.jpg

again, they got their powers back later. when ultraman one shotted kal kent, he regained his powers back and was using them before ultraman one shotted him. when he fought batman they regained their powers. please, take a moment to understand the comics instead of throwing everything you can at me and then discover you rushed without reading all of it.

Originally posted by Dareangel
dont try to mislead me, i know the comics very well. hourman is part of their team and he got mad but he wasnt fighting anyone. thats why he told superman to let him go instead of trying to actually fight him. again, dont twist things because you know very well what happened before that and the overall context.

as for kal kent handeling solaris on his own, you are funny. during the 1 million arc kal kent explained and admited they couldnt stop solaris. if he was powerful enough to stop solaris, he would have done it by now, and wouldnt let solaris gain all that power and cause all this mess. but with the help of green lantern he was able to contain it.

bruh, both him and batman 1 million were in their universe. please, stop with this "if kal kent doesnt have the super sun stuck up his ass he is depowered" thing. its redicilous.

Post the Batman 1M scans then, please.

And Hourman looks like he's struggling pretty hard there.

As for Solaris, you are misremembering - the JL1M said that the present day JLA couldn't handle him because they were too primitive.

Originally posted by Dareangel
again, they got their powers back later. when ultraman one shotted kal kent, he regained his powers back and was using them before ultraman one shotted him. when he fought batman they regained their powers. please, take a moment to understand the comics instead of throwing everything you can at me and then discover you rushed without reading all of it.

Post the scans then.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Mf5f8vL/RCO017-1480666962.jpg

If the dome is down....and our powers are returNING. Not returned.

Timeline is simple.

Dome goes up
JL1M are powerless
Batman/Superman fight
Dome goes down
Powers start returnING. Not return at once.
Ultraman blindsides S1M

So in short: when he's fighting Batman1M, he's powerless. When Ultraman blindsides him, his powers are still returning, but he's also losing his powers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Post the Batman 1M scans then, please.

And Hourman looks like he's struggling pretty hard there.

As for Solaris, you are misremembering - the JL1M said that the present day JLA couldn't handle him because they were too primitive.

i will tell you what, i will go read all that shit again to make sure i am not missing something and will post the batman 1 million kicking his ass scans.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i will tell you what, i will go read all that shit again to make sure i am not missing something and will post the batman 1 million kicking his ass scans.

This one, right?

https://i.postimg.cc/P5pqXMgb/RCO014-1480666962.jpg

Yeah, Supes is powerless here. Which is why I keep asking - there is always a chance I missed something myself.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I LITERALLY tell saint to think before he post everytime

Please stop trolling. You told me to read the scan, yet posted the wrong ones.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought so.

So OKT doesn't have the showings for TP resistance. I wasn't sure why you mentioned durability, mainly because it would be useless.
His will power is pretty crazee. Not sure what Kal can do to hurt him telepathically, but he already experienced and recovered fromthe worst pennance stare anyone could ever have from Super Amped Doom. He was the oldest being at that point so the stare's effect was incredibly powerful.
Usually a stare can leave one mindless or even burnt to ash dependung on how much paun theyve inflicted on others.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well...yes. I never said Surfer didn't have the perception feats? I am genuinely confused as to what point you're trying to make.

Is it that I'm hypocritical and have double standards? That's based on nothing. I didn't say Surfer didn't have the feats of fighting at extremely fast speeds (although truth be told, I didn't look at the numbers Alberto spewed).

So I guess we're all in agreement here. Kal Kent stomps.

OKT is able to perceived and follow Gorr moving at speeds that allow him to cover light years in moments. So that similarly equates combat speed and therefore he matches or even surpasses Kal's speed.

https://m.imgur.com/a/BJlCNZ2

So where do you get that I am in agreement that Kal stomps? Where did I express that? Can you see how your MO is to misrepresent what people say in a way whereas you put words in their mouths? Does this not give you reason why I don't respond to your attempts at "gotcha questions"?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
OKT is able to perceived and follow Gorr moving at speeds that allow him to cover light years in moments. So that similarly equates combat speed and therefore he matches or even surpasses Kal's speed.

https://m.imgur.com/a/BJlCNZ2

So where do you get that I am in agreement that Kal stomps? Where did I express that? Can you see how your MO is to misrepresent what people say in a way whereas you put words in their mouths? Does this not give you reason why I don't respond to your attempts at "gotcha questions"?

Erm...you mean MJOLNIR can follow at those speeds.

And even then....no, it's not matches/surpassing yoctoseconds, unless you can prove it.

Well I haven't seen anything that matches or surpasses Kal's feat. Even IF you allow that OKT is the one following, there is no timeframe for him - it's GORR who travels light-years in moments.

If I hit a baseball at 70mph, then run after where it landed....are you seriously suggesting my reflexes move at that speed?

If I shoot a bullet from a gun, then chase after it after it hits a target....you are saying I have bullet time reflexes? Help me understand so I don't misrepresent you.

OKT smashed Gorr so hard he flew light years away in moments. I shoot a bullet so quickly it travels 1000feet in a second. Then Thor follows up, just like me then running over to the target.

Doesn't mean my reactions are that quick.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Surfer's faster than Superman revealed his agenda.

Originally posted by MrMind
lol kal was using force vision to temp stop galaxy coming at him in super speed, but okt who was only hauling stars around has more raw power,

ok thorbag

not to mention Kal has magic immunity too, this thread is gold

and yes magic immunity means he is immune to OKT's attacks

remember how prime shrugs off black adam and mordru?

that's exactly what's happening here
Just saw this.. Im guessing this was directed at me?

Can u ever have a normal conversation without popping a blood vessel?

If u have things to say just go ahead and post it instead of always having to resort to adhominems. I can call u a superfahg all day, but what does that get me?

Magic immunity doesnt give him an automatic pass on damage.

And his power showings speak for themselves.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm...you mean MJOLNIR can follow at those speeds.

And even then....no, it's not matches/surpassing yoctoseconds, unless you can prove it.

Well I haven't seen anything that matches or surpasses Kal's feat. Even IF you allow that OKT is the one following, there is no timeframe for him - it's GORR who travels light-years in moments.

If I hit a baseball at 70mph, then run after where it landed....are you seriously suggesting my reflexes move at that speed?

If I shoot a bullet from a gun, then chase after it after it hits a target....you are saying I have bullet time reflexes? Help me understand so I don't misrepresent you.

OKT smashed Gorr so hard he flew light years away in moments. I shoot a bullet so quickly it travels 1000feet in a second. Then Thor follows up, just like me then running over to the target.

Doesn't mean my reactions are that quick.

What Kal did wasn't combat speed, it was perception. They're not remotely the same

FOR EXAMPLE, In the recent dragonball manga, Jaco, a barely planet lvl side character could see Goku moving in ultra instinct, despite the much stronger characters I the area, gohan and piccolo, couldn't see goku moving in ultra instinct (in said issue Gohan and piccolo nearly destroyed earth with casual ki blasts). This was possible because Jaco had high COMBAT PERCEPTION than goku had COMBAT SPEED.
In the same issue the same goku moving I ultra instinct was moving faster than what the other fighters could see, thats because his COMBAT SPEED is higher than their combat perception.

Originally posted by Diesldude
revealed his agenda.

it's funny he was spasming for 5 pages straight about surfer's mediocre feat. then he made a calculation, he was so proud of it.

then on page 5, once the mic drops for superman's feat, he was instantly annihilated. he hasn't look right ever since

poor old man got his dream completely shattered

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm...you mean MJOLNIR can follow at those speeds.

And even then....no, it's not matches/surpassing yoctoseconds, unless you can prove it.

Well I haven't seen anything that matches or surpasses Kal's feat. Even IF you allow that OKT is the one following, there is no timeframe for him - it's GORR who travels light-years in moments.

If I hit a baseball at 70mph, then run after where it landed....are you seriously suggesting my reflexes move at that speed?

If I shoot a bullet from a gun, then chase after it after it hits a target....you are saying I have bullet time reflexes? Help me understand so I don't misrepresent you.

OKT smashed Gorr so hard he flew light years away in moments. I shoot a bullet so quickly it travels 1000feet in a second. Then Thor follows up, just like me then running over to the target.

Doesn't mean my reactions are that quick.

Mjolnir doesn't fly by itself. It is steered by he who is wielding it. Yoctoseconds is not a speed, it's a measure of time. Now you stated that multiple light years doesn't compare to yoctoseconds. That's an assertion you are making, so go ahead and prove it.

Now consider that it says light-years (plural). And he travels this in mere moments. I'll be generous and say that he travels for a minute and only travels two light years away. That means that he travels more than a million times the speed of light.

Now the assertion you make with your analogies applies to Kal. Tracking speed does not equate to maneuvering speed. And your analogies are bad. For one, Gorr is not aimed at any target. He is blasted backward indiscriminately. A better analogy is if you simply fire a gun in an open field. You have no idea where the bullet ends up. A baseball leaves a bat at about 110 miles per hour and the average punch travels around 20 miles per hour. So based on your baseball analogy, Thor can throw a punch at 182,000 times the speed of light.

Lastly, I doubt that the Thors wait for Gorr to stop moving and they view him stop multiple light years away (that's some hell of some supervision) before they take off. It appears more that they are trailing behind him and doing so at a million times the speed of light takes some serious perception and therefore some serious light speed plus reflexes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This one, right?

https://i.postimg.cc/P5pqXMgb/RCO014-1480666962.jpg

Yeah, Supes is powerless here. Which is why I keep asking - there is always a chance I missed something myself.

yes, its that one. and you are right, i missed that depower thing that went thru further. with ultraman he regained his powers and could fly already and use his powers. as we see with the 1 million arc and overall the JLA 1 million appearances, it is always stated when they are depowered and when they gain their powers back. the fight vs ultraman was after they regained their powers and we see kal kent using his powers and nothing is stated about him not being at full power yet. so i do believe ultraman one shotting him is legit at his full power already. but thanks for doing the research with me and putting some light on this subject.

Light years is a measure of distance.

I have yet to decipher what 1 'mere moments' equates to, though. 🤔

Please dear God don't tell me that people are trying to relate perception speed with combat speed.

Originally posted by JBL
Please dear God don't tell me that people are trying to relate perception speed with combat speed.

Galan and others are, yes.