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Wanda has her morals off like she did against Thanos

Round 1: AOU Thor with Mjolnir
Round 2: Ragnarok Thor
Round 3: Fat Thor with Stormbreaker and Mjolnir
Round 4: Infinity War Thor with Stormbreaker

Where does she stop?

Well, she gets farther than Bane, who dies in round one.

Thor should be able to dispose of her with lightning even if she TK crushes him like she did Thanos.

I'd still be inclined to back Thor in general, due to the durability advantage and that, unlike Thanos, he has ranged attacks of his own. But I am also wondering whether Wanda could damage either Mjolnir or Stormbreaker, considering what she did to Thanos' sword, which was implied to be of the same material during an interview IIRC.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'd still be inclined to back Thor in general, due to the durability advantage and that, unlike Thanos, he has ranged attacks of his own. But I am also wondering whether Wanda could damage either Mjolnir or Stormbreaker, considering what she did to Thanos' sword, which was implied to be of the same material during an interview IIRC.
Yeah but Thanos' sword isn't magical like Mjolnir or Stormbreaker.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah but Thanos' sword isn't magical like Mjolnir or Stormbreaker.

True, but Wanda's powers are also hax Infinity Stone fueled magic. Feige has outright stated the main difference between what she does and regular Earth sorcerers do is she goes via instinct whereas they operate via learned and controlled techniques and spells, and we're likely delving deeper into all this in Dr Strange 2. So, being magical isn't necessarily a counter either. And I am not even saying she could do it. Just speculating a bit.

On a somewhat related note, it seems clear the current push by the MCU execs are that Wanda and Carol are the top dogs right now. Which I suppose does make sense, considering how they were empowered as well as the current state of many of the OG Avengers and co. But it does make me extra annoyed we never got to see Pietro develop to his full potential, though I can see the potential of a super hard-hitting, super durable guy, who could potentially impale Thanos with his own weapon before he even knew what's up, being around for too long being a narrative issue. They'd have to strap a Flash-helmet to him 90% of the time or he'd solo a lot of scenarios.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'd still be inclined to back Thor in general, due to the durability advantage and that, unlike Thanos, he has ranged attacks of his own. But I am also wondering whether Wanda could damage either Mjolnir or Stormbreaker, considering what she did to Thanos' sword, which was implied to be of the same material during an interview IIRC.

Wanda > Thanos' sword > Cap's shield

It's a good bet that she could crush Mjolnir. Luckily, he doesn't need it to fry her with lightning.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Wanda > Thanos' sword > Cap's shield

It's a good bet that she could crush Mjolnir. Luckily, he doesn't need it to fry her with lightning.

Well, I was thinking in terms of AoU Thor and Mjolnir for the most part, because that's before he'd properly unlocked his lightning abilities. But yeah, any version after that could zap her while stationary. Even Fat Thor used lightning a few times in Endgame (the combo attack with Tony and a lightning burst when the two armies initially met, to name some examples). Granted, he was armed when he did those, but I sincerely doubt he's gotten so bad in those five years that he can't summon at least one decent lightning strike without his weapons. But even AoU Thor just needs one good connection to win.

Wanda destroys all those except maybe infinity war thor. Maybe

Y'all are crazy, anyone with a ranged attack like Thor kills Wanda in seconds

If only Thanos had a gun.

Well yeah, attacking a telekinetic with a sword is stupid

Originally posted by Psychotron
If only Thanos had a gun.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/5418251-4478363651-53491.gif

Your comparing small arms fire to Thor's lightning? SAPI plates that regular humans wear can do the same thing. Wanda is all offense pretty much, she couldn't even contain that bomb not even 5 minutes later.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Your comparing small arms fire to Thor's lightning?


He was responding to Thanos having a gun.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Your comparing small arms fire to Thor's lightning?

Seriously, dude? I literally have said twice now that I back Thor and that he could take her out with a single decent lightning strike. I was responding to Psychotron's post regarding an actual gun and literally quoted him while doing so. You're strawmanning me now for absolutely no reason.

What's more, a gun or cannon or other projectile weapon can actually be telekinetically torn from his grip, unlike inherent powers.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Your comparing small arms fire to Thor's lightning?

Ikr?

Spite against the lightning.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
True, but Wanda's powers are also hax Infinity Stone fueled magic. Feige has outright stated the main difference between what she does and regular Earth sorcerers do is she goes via instinct whereas they operate via learned and controlled techniques and spells, and we're likely delving deeper into all this in Dr Strange 2. So, being magical isn't necessarily a counter either. And I am not even saying she could do it. Just speculating a bit.

On a somewhat related note, it seems clear the current push by the MCU execs are that Wanda and Carol are the top dogs right now. Which I suppose does make sense, considering how they were empowered as well as the current state of many of the OG Avengers and co. But it does make me extra annoyed we never got to see Pietro develop to his full potential, though I can see the potential of a super hard-hitting, super durable guy, who could potentially impale Thanos with his own weapon before he even knew what's up, being around for too long being a narrative issue. They'd have to strap a Flash-helmet to him 90% of the time or he'd solo a lot of scenarios.

Nah, I don't consider her powers hax. Her TK powers are pretty specific, regardless of where it came from, and we have enough feats from movies to determine the limits of what she can do at the moment.

Just because Thanos' sword might be made of Uru doesn't mean it was made the same way as Mjolnir. Doesn't mean it was made with the same level of craftmanship. And a warhammer is way harder to destroy than a sword blade.

What I'm saying is, 2 objects can be made of similar material yet be completely different durability wise. So Wanda cracking Thanos' sword is not proof that she can wreck Mjolnir.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ikr?

Spite against the lightning.


Well one of them Knocks Hulk around, the other doesnt

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, I don't consider her powers hax. Her TK powers are pretty specific, regardless of where it came from, and we have enough feats from movies to determine the limits of what she can do at the moment.

Just because Thanos' sword might be made of Uru doesn't mean it was made the same way as Mjolnir. Doesn't mean it was made with the same level of craftmanship. And a warhammer is way harder to destroy than a sword blade.

What I'm saying is, 2 objects can be made of similar material yet be completely different durability wise. So Wanda cracking Thanos' sword is not proof that she can wreck Mjolnir.

While you might not consider it hax, Feige himself has said it's essentially extra-dimensional energy manipulation (like Dr Strange and co do) that she just happens to manifest that way due to her lack of experience. And yes, we know what she can do, which includes destroying things as rare and powerful as Infinity Stones. And at no point did I say she can "wreck" Mjolnir. In fact, I never made any definitive statements in that regard. I simply wondered, given her higher end feats, whether she could damage either weapon if presented with the opportunity.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Seriously, dude? I literally have said twice now that I back Thor and that he could take her out with a single decent lightning strike. I was responding to Psychotron's post regarding an actual gun and literally quoted him while doing so. You're strawmanning me now for absolutely no reason.

What's more, a gun or cannon or other projectile weapon can actually be telekinetically torn from his grip, unlike inherent powers.

Nah, I'm not trying to streawman you, I wasn't paying attention and was kinda skimming thru. My bad.

Could Wanda pull Mjolnir? We know Helas Mjolnirs limit.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Nah, I'm not trying to streawman you, I wasn't paying attention and was kinda skimming thru. My bad.

Could Wanda pull Mjolnir? We know Helas Mjolnirs limit.

I don't see a Hela explosion being replicated. I was potentially thinking more like chip a piece off the edge of Mjolnir, or a crack in Stormbreaker or something. More along the lines of what we saw with Thanos' sword. Damaged, but still functional. But, again, not even saying that would happen. Just kinda wondering because I don't see much discussion of the actual fight.

Though it does make one wonder how Mjolnir would register Scarlet Witch's energy if she grabbed it telekinetically. In fact, I think I've pondered something similar in the past when discussing if a Force User could lift Mjolnir indirectly. I'm inclined to think not though, because the hammer seems to sense intent (based on guys trying to use a pick up truck to technically move it indirectly). So, I don't think she could freely move it around.

Anyway, as I have said before, any Thor from Ragnarok on can just zap her regardless of what happens otherwise. And even AoU Thor could probably smash right through her shield and turn her into paste if he really put some effort into a hammer toss.

And wow, this post was a legit incoherent typo tsunami before I did a once over.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
While you might not consider it hax, Feige himself has said it's essentially extra-dimensional energy manipulation (like Dr Strange and co do) that she just happens to manifest that way due to her lack of experience. And yes, we know what she can do, which includes destroying things as rare and powerful as Infinity Stones. And at no point did I say she can "wreck" Mjolnir. In fact, I never made any definitive statements in that regard. I simply wondered, given her higher end feats, whether she could damage either weapon if presented with the opportunity.

Feige can say whatever he wants but you know we go by onscreen feats here. And as far as Wanda's TK is concerned, they seem to work in pretty consistent manner with some pretty clear limitations. So... not very hax-like. Her mind control seems more hax-like but not her TK.

Anyway, what I will say is that Wanda can win round 1 IF she does manage to keep Mjolnir away from Thor. Just don't know how she's going to do that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Feige can say whatever he wants but you know we go by onscreen feats here. And as far as Wanda's TK is concerned, they seem to work in pretty consistent manner with some pretty clear limitations. So... not very hax-like. Her mind control seems more hax-like but not her TK.

Good thing we don't need his statement then. As I've already pointed out, we've seen her do things like shatter an Infinity Stone onscreen. But, seeing as you have made the claim, what's the clear upper limit of what Wanda can or cannot do/damage?

Wanda gets fried but kills Thor 2.

I have no problems with backing Thor for a sweep, as I have done so myself. But I don't see how anyone can claim we have clear defined limits on what Wanda can or cannot affect with her TK powers when there isn't a clear cut answer ever given onscreen. What have we seen an all-out Wanda try and fail to TK with her full power? This isn't like Hulk-lite that clearly needed Giant-Man to rescue them in Endgame. Even the IG shatter feat was only half her power, as the other half was spent pushing back Thanos long enough to do it (which she succeeded in, despite him bolstering his efforts with another Infinity Stone). And before some people try and twist this statement, no, I am not saying she has unlimited power. I am simply saying we have yet to see its limits displayed onscreen.

Doh, meant to write IS shatter feat lol.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Good thing we don't need his statement then. As I've already pointed out, we've seen her do things like shatter an Infinity Stone onscreen. But, seeing as you have made the claim, what's the clear upper limit of what Wanda can or cannot do/damage?

If you listen to the explanation Vision gives in Infinity War, the reason Wanda was able to break the Mind Stone was because her powers shared a similar signature to it since she got her powers from the same stone. It's not like she broke it by pure strength alone, nor is there proof that she can break the other infinity stones.

As for limitations... We know that she was only powerful enough to contain the bomb in civil war for a few seconds before it became too much for her to handle. We know that her shields weren't powerful enough to protect her completely from the airstrike that Thanos called down. We know that Wanda's strongest TK blasts are not enough to seriously injure beings like Proxima Midnight. We know that Wanda's TK wasn't strong enough to crush Thanos in an instant and that she needed multiple seconds to slowly crush him. We know that during that time, Thanos was in pain but didn't end up with any serious injury.

It should also be noted that Thanos' strength as he tried to cut Wanda with his sword contributed to Wanda's ability to break the sword. The sword literally started cracking as Thanos pushed down on it, so it wasn't Wanda's strength alone that ruined it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you listen to the explanation Vision gives in Infinity War, the reason Wanda was able to break the Mind Stone was because her powers shared a similar signature to it since she got her powers from the same stone. It's not like she broke it by pure strength alone, nor is there proof that she can break the other infinity stones.

As for limitations... We know that she was only powerful enough to contain the bomb in civil war for a few seconds before it became too much for her to handle. We know that her shields weren't powerful enough to protect her completely from the airstrike that Thanos called down. We know that Wanda's strongest TK blasts are not enough to seriously injure beings like Proxima Midnight. We know that Wanda's TK wasn't strong enough to crush Thanos with a single thought and that she needed multiple seconds to slowly crush him. We know that during that time, Thanos was in pain but didn't end up with any serious injury.

It should also be noted that Thanos' strength as he tried to cut Wanda with his sword contributed to Wanda's ability to break the sword. The sword literally started cracking as Thanos pushed down on it, so it wasn't Wanda's strength alone that ruined it.

And yet she did it while also simultaneously resisting Thanos using the Space Stone to help him (which he also uses as a shield against Iron Man at one point). And that, even without said Stone, Thanos could physically overpower 99.9% of the heroes onscreen and pop Vision's forehead open like an egg shell.

Wanda was still a relative noob with the bomb. And that's a low-end relative to catching a collapsing control tower later in that same film (which she only dropped after WM shot her with a sonic cannon from behind), stopping a speeding train in AoU (which she successfully did) or lifting giant alien energy wheels in IW (which she also successfully did). And she had to throw up a shield at the very last moment in Endgame, as she was still gripping Thanos. Wong and the other Earth sorcerers had a moment to fully cast their shield spells (which is clearly shown). In contrast, we see her throwing her arms up pretty much at the last instant. So, unless you genuinely believe that she couldn't do any better whatsoever even if she had a moment to properly prepare herself, that's clearly not a proper representation of her shield strength.

Also, there is no proof that those blasts against Proxima and Corvus were her strongest. The scene makes it clear her priority was getting Vision (and by extension the Mind Stone) away from the battlefield, which is why she repeatedly went for the quick knockdown, grabbed Vision and tried to run.

And yet Thanos knew he was done for to the point where he had his own army decimated just to get free. And considering how consistently durable Thanos is shown to be, especially against energy based attacks, to the point where he tanked point blank blasts from Captain Marvel and has shaken off IW Thor's lightning, that's not a low end for Wanda. Seriously, the scene makes it painfully clear that Thanos was dead meat without assistance. The scene also makes it that clear that Thanos can repeatedly batter things as tough as Vibranium, breaking it in the process, without doing any damage to his sword. So, Wanda breaking a piece off his sword and rendering him nigh-helpless is very much meant to be a showcase of her true power. And Feige doesn't need to reaffirm it in multiple interviews (even though he has) for that to be clear. You don't have to like it, but trying to argue against it at this point is pretty silly IMO.

Did she ever use her mind whammy after AOU?

Not that I can recall. Well, not in combat. She has scanned Vision like once or twice IIRC, but they were having a casual conversation both times. So, not really applicable to a fight. Telepathy is a sticky one to handle, because it can be an extremely OP power when no one else has it (as I mentioned in another thread, likely also the reason they scrapped Strange doing a mental attack on Thanos during the Titan battle). So, the MCU has mostly kept it to a minimum so far. But it's going to be interesting to see how they will handle the X-Men and the like down the line, considering all the potential telepath characters in those ranks.

Wanda takes all rounds. There is nothing Thor can do to getting crushed. And Wanda's shields are OP.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Wanda takes all rounds. There is nothing Thor can do to getting crushed. And Wanda's shields are OP.

I'm curious what makes you think her shields are OP? As I have said already, I don't think the ship blast from Endgame is a true representation of her best shield effort, but even I will admit that defense is by far her weakest area. Also, he does have something he can do:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111331200/6241842-8544867730-giphy.gif

Even Fat Thor can still summon lightning on his own. Notice he's already channeling the power as Mjolnir and then Stormbreaker reach him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8vnih78ZeNTu3BOCrn/giphy.gif

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And yet she did it while also simultaneously resisting Thanos using the Space Stone to help him (which he also uses as a shield against Iron Man at one point). And that, even without said Stone, Thanos could physically overpower 99.9% of the heroes onscreen and pop Vision's forehead open like an egg shell.

Wanda was still a relative noob with the bomb. And that's a low-end relative to catching a collapsing control tower later in that same film (which she only dropped after WM shot her with a sonic cannon from behind), stopping a speeding train in AoU (which she successfully did) or lifting giant alien energy wheels in IW (which she also successfully did). And she had to throw up a shield at the very last moment in Endgame, as she was still gripping Thanos. Wong and the other Earth sorcerers had a moment to fully cast their shield spells (which is clearly shown). In contrast, we see her throwing her arms up pretty much at the last instant. So, unless you genuinely believe that she couldn't do any better whatsoever even if she had a moment to properly prepare herself, that's clearly not a proper representation of her shield strength.

Also, there is no proof that those blasts against Proxima and Corvus were her strongest. The scene makes it clear her priority was getting Vision (and by extension the Mind Stone) away from the battlefield, which is why she repeatedly went for the quick knockdown, grabbed Vision and tried to run.

And yet Thanos knew he was done for to the point where he had his own army decimated just to get free. And considering how consistently durable Thanos is shown to be, especially against energy based attacks, to the point where he tanked point blank blasts from Captain Marvel and has shaken off IW Thor's lightning, that's not a low end for Wanda. Seriously, the scene makes it painfully clear that Thanos was dead meat without assistance. The scene also makes it that clear that Thanos can repeatedly batter things as tough as Vibranium, breaking it in the process, without doing any damage to his sword. So, Wanda breaking a piece off his sword and rendering him nigh-helpless is very much meant to be a showcase of her true power. And Feige doesn't need to reaffirm it in multiple interviews (even though he has) for that to be clear. You don't have to like it, but trying to argue against it at this point is pretty silly IMO.

You're making far too many assumptions just to excuse Wanda's failings, instead of just calling them out as we see on screen. Note that I never said Wanda wasn't powerful, nor did I say I knew her upper limit. What I said was that she clearly had limits, which contradicts your claim that she had hax powers.

1. You claim Wanda was inexperienced in CW, yet I don't recall her getting any massive experiences between that and IW.
2. Yeah she caught the falling tower, but she was clearly struggling and didn't seem like she could maintain it indefinitely. This also doesn't seem more difficult than containing a bomb.
3. You keep ignoring the fact that she broke the mind gem specifically because she had the same power signature as it.
4. Wanda already proved that she's strong enough to lift Thanos up in the air. If you're strong enough to lift somebody up, it's not that much more difficult to push them back. Sure Thanos is strong his pushing force is still limited by his weight and friction with the ground, whereas Wanda's push isn't limited by that. Besides, Thanos wasn't even attacking her, merely pushing forward. He used the space gem to shield himself, not to attack. And even then he was slowly moving forward.
5. If you're saying Wanda didn't have enough time to put up her shields, then that's a limitation ain't it? Shows she can't maintain her shields while attacking.
6. Now why wouldn't she use her strongest attacks against Proxima when her life and Visions's were on the line? Kinda stupid to hold back at that point right? Like I said, it seems like you just keep making excuses instead of calling it out as it is.
7. Thor and Captain Marvel could have easily rendered Thanos nigh helpless as well had they chosen to fight him from a distance and just bombarded him with long-range shots. Just so happens that Wanda was apparently the only one smart enough to think of doing it. So good on Wanda, but lets not pretend that she was the only one capable of doing it.
8. Yeah, Thanos called down an airstrike because he was held in the air unable to move and was slowly getting crushed. That still shows that Wanda's powers have limitations, as she needed time in order to crush Thanos instead of doing it instantly like how we see Graviton do it.
9. Are you ignoring the fact that Thanos' strength also contributed to the breaking of his sword?
10. Yeah she stopped a train in AoU but she wasn't able to do it quickly right? Again, limitations.

In the end, I never said she isn't strong, so stop trying to prove she's strong because I don't disagree. What I'm showing you are all the times she failed to do what she wanted to do, which shows that she clearly has limits, which means her powers can't be considered hax powers. Her powers fail her far too often for you to claim that they're hax.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, I don't consider her powers hax. Her TK powers are pretty specific, regardless of where it came from, and we have enough feats from movies to determine the limits of what she can do at the moment.

Just because Thanos' sword might be made of Uru doesn't mean it was made the same way as Mjolnir. Doesn't mean it was made with the same level of craftmanship. And a warhammer is way harder to destroy than a sword blade.

What I'm saying is, 2 objects can be made of similar material yet be completely different durability wise. So Wanda cracking Thanos' sword is not proof that she can wreck Mjolnir.

The sword is smashed Captain America's shield to pieces. That's better than anything movie Mjolnir has ever done. It's pretty safe to assume it's more durable than the maul (it's not a warhammer).

Originally posted by Psychotron
The sword is smashed Captain America's shield to pieces. That's better than anything movie Mjolnir has ever done. It's pretty safe to assume it's more durable than the maul (it's not a warhammer).

I wouldn't exactly call that smashing the shield to pieces. He hacked at the edge of the shield, cutting into it, and once the integrity of the shield was compromised he was able to eventually crack it open with a few more hits.

I mean, that's indeed impressive, but you make it sound like he blew it apart with one hit.

P.s. A maul is a type of warhammer.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'm curious what makes you think her shields are OP? As I have said already, I don't think the ship blast from Endgame is a true representation of her best shield effort, but even I will admit that defense is by far her weakest area. Also, he does have something he can do:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111331200/6241842-8544867730-giphy.gif

Even Fat Thor can still summon lightning on his own. Notice he's already channeling the power as Mjolnir and then Stormbreaker reach him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8vnih78ZeNTu3BOCrn/giphy.gif

Wanda was holding Thanos with her shields while focusing most of her energies on destroying the Mind Stone. In fact Thanos was using te Space stone and was still fairly held.

Also, Thanos' sword broke Vibranium while it was useless against Wanda's shields.

Lightning is not breaching Wanda's defences.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're making far too many assumptions just to excuse Wanda's failings, instead of just calling them out as we see on screen. Note that I never said Wanda wasn't powerful, nor did I say I knew her upper limit. What I said was that she clearly had limits, which contradicts your claim that she had hax powers.

1. You claim Wanda was inexperienced in CW, yet I don't recall her getting any massive experiences between that and IW.
2. Yeah she caught the falling tower, but she was clearly struggling and didn't seem like she could maintain it indefinitely. This also doesn't seem more difficult than containing a bomb.
3. You keep ignoring the fact that she broke the mind gem specifically because she had the same power signature as it.
4. Wanda already proved that she's strong enough to lift Thanos up in the air. If you're strong enough to lift somebody up, it's not that much more difficult to push them back. Sure Thanos is strong his pushing force is still limited by his weight and friction with the ground, whereas Wanda's push isn't limited by that. Besides, Thanos wasn't even attacking her, merely pushing forward. He used the space gem to shield himself, not to attack. And even then he was slowly moving forward.
5. If you're saying Wanda didn't have enough time to put up her shields, then that's a limitation ain't it? Shows she can't maintain her shields while attacking.
6. Now why wouldn't she use her strongest attacks against Proxima when her life and Visions's were on the line? Kinda stupid to hold back at that point right? Like I said, it seems like you just keep making excuses instead of calling it out as it is.
7. Thor and Captain Marvel could have easily rendered Thanos nigh helpless as well had they chosen to fight him from a distance and just bombarded him with long-range shots. Just so happens that Wanda was apparently the only one smart enough to think of doing it. So good on Wanda, but lets not pretend that she was the only one capable of doing it.
8. Yeah, Thanos called down an airstrike because he was held in the air unable to move and was slowly getting crushed. That still shows that Wanda's powers have limitations, as she needed time in order to crush Thanos instead of doing it instantly like how we see Graviton do it.
9. Are you ignoring the fact that Thanos' strength also contributed to the breaking of his sword?
10. Yeah she stopped a train in AoU but she wasn't able to do it quickly right? Again, limitations.

In the end, I never said she isn't strong, so stop trying to prove she's strong because I don't disagree. What I'm showing you are all the times she failed to do what she wanted to do, which shows that she clearly has limits, which means her powers can't be considered hax powers. Her powers fail her far too often for you to claim that they're hax.

Wow, dude. Pot, kettle. You claim I make assumptions to excuse her so-called failings, yet you have repeatedly made assumptions about her in this thread (and others in the past) in order to portray her negatively. Also, the fact that you are still outright lowballing her repelling Thanos who was actively using an Infinity Stone to help him says it all. Because, no, lifting Thanos' pure mass (which is maybe a couple thousands lbs at best) is not the same as countering the forward momentum he is actively generating while using an Infinity Stone as a shield, and you know this. Hell, if you tied a rope around Thanos, Cap could probably easily hold his weight alone. And he used the Space Stone for a reason, as it helps him with momentum manipulation, as seen when he also halted Loki's dagger strike, shielded himself from some of Iron Man's attacks using it as well and held WM in midair. And he was slowly moving forward (with visible strain on his face), because Wanda was actively pushing him back. Anyway, before this exchange becomes even more hostile, I am going to move on.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Wanda was holding Thanos with her shields while focusing most of her energies on destroying the Mind Stone. In fact Thanos was using te Space stone and was still fairly held.

Also, Thanos' sword broke Vibranium while it was useless against Wanda's shields.

Lightning is not breaching Wanda's defences.

It wasn't a shield she fended Thanos off with though. It was a concentrated energy beam. She basically went DBZ for that scene lol. And it seemed to me more like she gripped his sword with her powers (that classic martial arts movie catching the sword strike bit, but with tk instead). Could be wrong, but that's how it visually appeared to me.

And another thing to consider is direction and volume. Even if, for the sake of argument, she can block a lighting strike directed at her from the front or from the sky, Thor can release bolts in multiple directions at once as well as call aerial strikes while projecting bolts from his body:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/61/56/5161568c3139718e683d5a2f553b2033.gif

https://data.whicdn.com/images/308553239/original.gif

I just can't see her warding off that kind of assault based on her overall defensive track record.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I wouldn't exactly call that smashing the shield to pieces. He hacked at the edge of the shield, cutting into it, and once the integrity of the shield was compromised he was able to eventually crack it open with a few more hits.

I mean, that's indeed impressive, but you make it sound like he blew it apart with one hit.

P.s. A maul is a type of warhammer.

In real life if a sword smashed into a shield made of the same material it would shatter before it does anything to the shield. Therefore, Thanos' sword is made of a material that is far more durable than Captain America's shield. Now, we've seen an angry Thor slam Mjolnir into the shield and it didn't even dent it. It's safe to say that breaking the sword is more impressive than breaking Mjolnir in my opinion. That doesn't mean that Wanda is more powerful than Hela or anything, because Hela broke Mjolnir with a smile on her face, while Wanda struggled somewhat.

^ Uru must be > Vibranium in the MCU. At best Thanos sword is made of Uru, which added to his tremendous strength, did what it did.

Remember Mjolnir wasnt a sharp object so wouldnt cut through Caps shield, and it was always just one blow at a time anyway, and from someone physically much weaker.

To be fair, slashing weapons are terrible against shields and armor. You need a piercing weapon, like an actual warhammer, or a blunt weapon to deal with that. So Mjolnir is actually better suited to smash the shield than a sword. Plus, Mjolnir is magical and has Thor's lightning, so it should be more powerful than Thanos' sword. I guess you could argue that Thanos is just that much stronger than Thor, but still. Either way, if Wanda can break the sword she can break Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Psychotron
In real life if a sword smashed into a shield made of the same material it would shatter before it does anything to the shield. Therefore, Thanos' sword is made of a material that is far more durable than Captain America's shield. Now, we've seen an angry Thor slam Mjolnir into the shield and it didn't even dent it. It's safe to say that breaking the sword is more impressive than breaking Mjolnir in my opinion. That doesn't mean that Wanda is more powerful than Hela or anything, because Hela broke Mjolnir with a smile on her face, while Wanda struggled somewhat.

Yes, I believe it's clear that Thanos' sword > Cap's shield. That, however, doesn't mean it's tougher than Mjolnir. Remember that Thor only ever hit Cap's shield once with full intent, and that he struck it right at the center where the shield is toughest. Thanos hacked at the edge of the shield, not the center, and he only managed to damage it after repeated blows.

There's also the fact that Thor isn't physically as strong as Thanos, and that also needs to be considered.

And again, breaking a sword blade is much easier than breaking a hammer's head, presuming both are made with the same metal, with the same tempering, with the same level of craftmanship. Breaking a sword blade doesn't mean you can just as easily break a hammer head.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It wasn't a shield she fended Thanos off with though. It was a concentrated energy beam. She basically went DBZ for that scene lol. And it seemed to me more like she gripped his sword with her powers (that classic martial arts movie catching the sword strike bit, but with tk instead). Could be wrong, but that's how it visually appeared to me.

A concentrated energy beam or an energy shield. Small but still an energy shiled.

Besides, we have indeed seen Wanda create energy shields back at AoU and CW.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And another thing to consider is direction and volume. Even if, for the sake of argument, she can block a lighting strike directed at her from the front or from the sky, Thor can release bolts in multiple directions at once as well as call aerial strikes while projecting bolts from his body:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/61/56/5161568c3139718e683d5a2f553b2033.gif

https://data.whicdn.com/images/308553239/original.gif

I just can't see her warding off that kind of assault based on her overall defensive track record.

Such attacks are useful at close range, but why should we assume that Wanda will allow the fight to reach there?

Also, how powerful are such lightning? We saw them being effective against dead Asgardians, which where getting killed by normal machine guns, whilst Wanda was blocking simillar bullets with Energy Shields in Civil War.


EG Wanda clears.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
A concentrated energy beam or an energy shield. Small but still an energy shiled.

Besides, we have indeed seen Wanda create energy shields back at AoU and CW.



Such attacks are useful at close range, but why should we assume that Wanda will allow the fight to reach there?

Also, how powerful are such lightning? We saw them being effective against dead Asgardians, which where getting killed by normal machine guns, whilst Wanda was blocking simillar bullets with Energy Shields in Civil War.


EG Wanda clears.

Well, she did let Thanos initially get close during their fight. Granted, she did push him back and disarm him eventually, but he was pretty much within touching distance of her at one point. And at that range, even Thor's "What are you the god of again" Hela strike can come into play.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, I believe it's clear that Thanos' sword > Cap's shield. That, however, doesn't mean it's tougher than Mjolnir. Remember that Thor only ever hit Cap's shield once with full intent, and that he struck it right at the center where the shield is toughest. Thanos hacked at the edge of the shield, not the center, and he only managed to damage it after repeated blows.

There's also the fact that Thor isn't physically as strong as Thanos, and that also needs to be considered.

And again, breaking a sword blade is much easier than breaking a hammer's head, presuming both are made with the same metal, with the same tempering, with the same level of craftmanship. Breaking a sword blade doesn't mean you can just as easily break a hammer head.

You contradict yourself with the first and last paragraphs. If a sword is so much easier to break, which I agree with, then that means Thanos' sword is that much more durable than Captain America's shield. The same shield Mjolnir, wielded by an enraged Thor, couldn't even dent. And while it's true that Thanos is physically more powerful than Thor, he doesn't have Thor's lightning and his sword doesn't have Mjolnir's enchantments. There's no argument that can really be made in favor of Mjolnir here. It just doesn't have the feats.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, she did let Thanos initially get close during their fight. Granted, she did push him back and disarm him eventually, but he was pretty much within touching distance of her at one point. And at that range, even Thor's "What are you the god of again" Hela strike can come into play.

Even if we assume that the characters will use all their power from the get go, Wanda would just finish Ragnarok Thor before he gets close.

If we assume that the attacks powers will progress along with the fight, then Thor isn't going for an all-out lightning like the one that demolished Odin's Keep as soon as he gets into close range. And still, Wanda could just finish up the fight in close quartes by mind raping Thor, so...

Odinson is still at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Psychotron
You contradict yourself with the first and last paragraphs. If a sword is so much easier to break, which I agree with, then that means Thanos' sword is that much more durable than Captain America's shield. The same shield Mjolnir, wielded by an enraged Thor, couldn't even dent. And while it's true that Thanos is physically more powerful than Thor, he doesn't have Thor's lightning and his sword doesn't have Mjolnir's enchantments. There's no argument that can really be made in favor of Mjolnir here. It just doesn't have the feats.

And yet you seem to be conveniently ignoring the main points of my argument. So let me repeat them for you:

1. Thanos only damaged Cap's shield after repeated strikes of his sword, whereas Thor only ever fully struck Cap's shield once.

2. Thanos' earlier strikes left no dent on Cap's shield, not even a scratch.

3. Thanos' cracked Cap's shield by striking it at its edge. The one time Thor attacked that shield he hit it at the center. Hint: The edge is the weakest part of the shield.

If you really want to prove that Thanos' sword is stronger than Thor, you need to prove that it can damage Cap's shield via a single hit to the center.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Even if we assume that the characters will use all their power from the get go, Wanda would just finish Ragnarok Thor before he gets close.

If we assume that the attacks powers will progress along with the fight, then Thor isn't going for an all-out lightning like the one that demolished Odin's Keep as soon as he gets into close range. And still, Wanda could just finish up the fight in close quartes by mind raping Thor, so...

Odinson is still at a disadvantage.

I'm curious why you think Thor's lightning is limited to short range? What, you think lightning that's strong enough to pulverize undead Asgardians are just going to sizzle out after more than a few meters?

Originally posted by FrothByte
And yet you seem to be conveniently ignoring the main points of my argument. So let me repeat them for you:

1. Thanos only damaged Cap's shield after repeated strikes of his sword, whereas Thor only ever fully struck Cap's shield once.

2. Thanos' earlier strikes left no dent on Cap's shield, not even a scratch.

3. Thanos' cracked Cap's shield by striking it at its edge. The one time Thor attacked that shield he hit it at the center. Hint: The edge is the weakest part of the shield.

If you really want to prove that Thanos' sword is stronger than Thor, you need to prove that it can damage Cap's shield via a single hit to the center.

Alright, I just rewatched the scene.

Thanos didn't get a clean strike on the shield until he punched Mjolnir out of Steve's hand. That first clean strike broke the shield.

There were no earlier attacks, just a couple of one-handed glancing blows.

Considering a fully charged lightning strike from an enraged Thor couldn't dent the shield I don't think an edge shot would have done much either. Mjolnir is a blunt weapon and it wouldn't break apart a shield no matter where you strike with it. Also, in real life a sword woud break striking the edge of a metal shield, so if anything this just makes Thanos' sword look much more durable.

No, I don't. You kneed to prove that Mjolnir can damage the shield at all.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm curious why you think Thor's lightning is limited to short range? What, you think lightning that's strong enough to pulverize undead Asgardians are just going to sizzle out after more than a few meters?

Dead Asgardians which were getting killed by the Executor using machine guns. Wanda's shields have withstood bullets before.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Dead Asgardians which were getting killed by the Executor using machine guns. Wanda's shields have withstood bullets before.

That still doesn't prove that Thor's lightning is short-ranged. There's also the fact that Wanda has trouble shielding herself while using her TK to attack, as was already proven when she was trying to crush Thanos.

So if your theory is she can use the same attack on Thor, then she's open to getting zapped by lightning.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That still doesn't prove that Thor's lightning is short-ranged. There's also the fact that Wanda has trouble shielding herself while using her TK to attack, as was already proven when she was trying to crush Thanos.

So if your theory is she can use the same attack on Thor, then she's open to getting zapped by lightning.

Such lightning were only used in that particular scene at close range.

I never said that Thor can't cast normal lightning at long distances.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Such lightning were only used in that particular scene at close range.

I never said that Thor can't cast normal lightning at long distances.

Define "close range". Because those lightning blasts seemed to be extending 10-15 meters away from Thor at some points. If that's your idea of close range then Wanda's powers are also close range. I certainly don't recall her being too far away from Thanos when she did her TK crush.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Either way, if Wanda can break the sword she can break Mjolnir.


Probably true but:

1) He can throw Mjolnir or StormBreaker at his opponent. In the case of the latter it overpowered a blast from a full infinity gauntlet.

2) Even if she crushes Mjolnir or SB, he can still fire lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Probably true but:

1) He can throw Mjolnir or StormBreaker at his opponent. In the case of the latter it overpowered a blast from a full infinity gauntlet.

2) Even if she crushes Mjolnir or SB, he can still fire lightning.

I already said he wins via lightning spam. I'm only saying Wanda's tk is strong enough to break Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Alright, I just rewatched the scene.

Thanos didn't get a clean strike on the shield until he punched Mjolnir out of Steve's hand. That first clean strike broke the shield.

There were no earlier attacks, just a couple of one-handed glancing blows.

Considering a fully charged lightning strike from an enraged Thor couldn't dent the shield I don't think an edge shot would have done much either. Mjolnir is a blunt weapon and it wouldn't break apart a shield no matter where you strike with it. Also, in real life a sword woud break striking the edge of a metal shield, so if anything this just makes Thanos' sword look much more durable.

No, I don't. You kneed to prove that Mjolnir can damage the shield at all.

Thanos hits Cap's shield 4 different times before the shield breaks. Now I agree some of them were glancing hits, but one of them hit somewhere near the middle of Cap's shield strong enough to send Cap flying back. And guess what? No dent on the shield. Not even a scratch.

Also, if you don't think it's easier for a hammer to dent the edge of a shield than it is to dents its center then you really need to get a hold of a shield at some point and check it out. The edges of a shield are normally the first parts to get damaged.

There's also the fact that Thor wields Mjolnir one-handed whereas the strikes that Thanos used to break the shield were delivered two handed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That still doesn't prove that Thor's lightning is short-ranged. There's also the fact that Wanda has trouble shielding herself while using her TK to attack, as was already proven when she was trying to crush Thanos.

So if your theory is she can use the same attack on Thor, then she's open to getting zapped by lightning.

I think TheVault was referring to the lightning coming off his body.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I already said he wins via lightning spam. I'm only saying Wanda's tk is strong enough to break Mjolnir.


Cool


But I also added the SB throw

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I think TheVault was referring to the lightning coming off his body.

Yes, that lightning seemed to reach out and strike undead Asgardians who were nowhere in range to hit Thor... and some of them were carrying spears. I'm not saying he can generate that lightning and hit a target a mile away but I think we're being a bit loose with the definition of "close range" here.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Thanos hits Cap's shield 4 different times before the shield breaks. Now I agree some of them were glancing hits, but one of them hit somewhere near the middle of Cap's shield strong enough to send Cap flying back. And guess what? No dent on the shield. Not even a scratch.

Also, if you don't think it's easier for a hammer to dent the edge of a shield than it is to dents its center then you really need to get a hold of a shield at some point and check it out. The edges of a shield are normally the first parts to get damaged.

There's also the fact that Thor wields Mjolnir one-handed whereas the strikes that Thanos used to break the shield were delivered two handed.

No, he hit him twice before. The first time at the start of the battle when all 4 are brawling and once again before he punches Mjolnir out his hand. Then his next hit slices into the shield.

It's easier to dent the edge, but a sword can't slice the edge at all. That's my point.

The grip of Thanos' sword is so small it's impossbile to actually two-hand it. At best he can hold the hand that's holding the hilt, which is something Thor can do. And again, Thor's hammer is magical. He struck the shield with both lightning and physical force.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Cool


But I also added the SB throw

I don't really see Thor going for that right off the bat with Wanda. But theoretically, yeah, it should do the job.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, that lightning seemed to reach out and strike undead Asgardians who were nowhere in range to hit Thor... and some of them were carrying spears. I'm not saying he can generate that lightning and hit a target a mile away but I think we're being a bit loose with the definition of "close range" here.

By close range I mean no further than a couple of meters; that's at least how it was portrayed in Ragnarok.