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Both at their peak who wins how and why ?

Obi Wan via war of attrition; he'd outlast Mace for sure, also if there's anybody that Mace would have absolutely nothing for Vapaad to draw from its Obi Wan lol

If its Rebels Kenobi, this could very well be a fight between peers.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If its Rebels Kenobi, this could very well be a fight between peers.

I like this version better. I would also like to see rebels Kenobi vs dooku

I don't think Rebels Kenobi is stronger than ROTS Kenobi.

Do you really think ANH Vader is a better lightsaber duelist than ROTS Vader?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Do you really think ANH Vader is a better lightsaber duelist than ROTS Vader? There is no reason to believe that he wasn't (in canon at least).

Originally posted by Psychotron
Do you really think ANH Vader is a better lightsaber duelist than ROTS Vader?


No, but ROTS Anakin was already considerably > Dooku. So not sure that line of logic will go anywhere.

Vader was probably Clone Wars Anakin level in Sabers, but massively more impressive TK. At least in a controlled version.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No, but ROTS Anakin was already considerably > Dooku. So not sure that line of logic will go anywhere.

Vader was probably Clone Wars Anakin level in Sabers, but massively more impressive TK. At least in a controlled version.

ROTS Anakin being > Dooku doesn't mean Obi-Wan = Mace.

I don't argue that his Force powers didn't increase. I'm talking only about his lightsaber skills.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
There is no reason to believe that he wasn't (in canon at least).

Aside from lack of feats to support this? Suited Vader hasn't killed anyone on Dooku's level.

Originally posted by Psychotron
ROTS Anakin being > Dooku doesn't mean Obi-Wan = Mace.

I don't argue that his Force powers didn't increase. I'm talking only about his lightsaber skills.




Obi-Wan always had the skill set to rival Mace as a swordsman, he just didnt have the power in the Force.

By Rebels/ANH he apparently does, given 1) how fast he cut Maul down (Maul has briefly faced Mace in SOD and wasnt blitz or anything) and 2) The fact that he held off against Vader without being ragdolled or anything. Even in Sabers he wasnt being forced backwards the way he was against Anakin in ROTS.

There is literally NO reason to suspect that Vader's lightsaber skills diminished after the Mustafar incident. Nothing in canon supports that, and IIRC Vader was listed as the #1 red lightsaber duelist in one of the guidebooks (above even Sidious lol).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Obi-Wan always had the skill set to rival Mace as a swordsman, he just didnt have the power in the Force.

By Rebels/ANH he apparently does, given 1) how fast he cut Maul down (Maul has briefly faced Mace in SOD and wasnt blitz or anything) and 2) The fact that he held off against Vader without being ragdolled or anything. Even in Sabers he wasnt being forced backwards the way he was against Anakin in ROTS.

I agree 100% that Obi-Wan has the skill to beat Mace. However, I don't think he has the raw Force power. Neither Maul nor Vader tried to use the Force against him in their fights.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I agree 100% that Obi-Wan has the skill to beat Mace. However, I don't think he has the raw Force power. Neither Maul nor Vader tried to use the Force against him in their fights.


I mean sure Maul never got a chance to try TK or other such attacks given how short his duel with Old Ben was, but Surely Vader would have force owned Ben if he could in such an extended fight. Vader would have loved to humiliate his former Master like that. And we saw Vader strike him down the moment Ben put his defences down, so he wasnt trying to prove hes the superior duelist or anything. He was simply going straight for the kill.

The Force isnt just TK and FL. It also enhances your speed and power in lightsaber fight.

So the speed at which Old Ben took Maul out was very telling about his level of power at this point. And again he was only being forced backwards to a small extent by Vader, which means he had the strength and power to rival him in a duel.


Originally posted by Eli Vanto
There is literally NO reason to suspect that Vader's lightsaber skills diminished after the Mustafar incident. Nothing in canon supports that, and IIRC Vader was listed as the #1 red lightsaber duelist in one of the guidebooks (above even Sidious lol).


His potential must have been capped. But otherwise yeah, given TCW and Rebels Maul wasnt massively diminished from his TPM self, no reason to think Vader was either.

Especially when Maul was stranded and out of practice for years prior to both his Clone Wars and Rebels comebacks. Vader on the other hand was always keeping in form.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mean sure Maul never got a chance to try TK or other such attacks given how short his duel with Old Ben was, but Surely Vader would have force owned Ben if he could in such an extended fight. Vader would have loved to humiliate his former Master like that. And we saw Vader strike him down the moment Ben put his defences down, so he wasnt trying to prove hes the superior duelist or anything. He was simply going straight for the kill.

The Force isnt just TK and FL. It also enhances your speed and power in lightsaber fight.

So the speed at which Old Ben took Maul out was very telling about his level of power at this point. And again he was only being forced backwards to a small extent by Vader, which means he had the strength and power to rival him in a duel.

We saw the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan and Vader never tried any Force attacks. Maybe he just wanted to out-duel him to avenge his previous loss. If we're going by your reasoning then ROTJ Luke is a peer to Vader in Force abilities because Vader didn't own him with the Force.

I'm aware.

Old Ben took out Maul quickly because he knew what Maul was going to do and how to counter it. It was pure skill. I don't disagree that ANH Ben was close to Vader as a duelist, but that doesn't mean he'd beat Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
There is literally NO reason to suspect that Vader's lightsaber skills diminished after the Mustafar incident. Nothing in canon supports that, and IIRC Vader was listed as the #1 red lightsaber duelist in one of the guidebooks (above even Sidious lol).

He's definitely not above Sidious so that's how good that source is.

Originally posted by Psychotron
1)We saw the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan and Vader never tried any Force attacks. Maybe he just wanted to out-duel him to avenge his previous loss. If we're going by your reasoning then ROTJ Luke is a peer to Vader in Force abilities because Vader didn't own him with the Force.

2)Old Ben took out Maul quickly because he knew what Maul was going to do and how to counter it. It was pure skill. I don't disagree that ANH Ben was close to Vader as a duelist, but that doesn't mean he'd beat Mace Windu.



1) I already addressed this. If that was the case Vader wouldnt have struck him the second Ben lowered his defences. He was simply going for the kill.

Its like Mace Windu fighting Palpatine. Technically Sidious never used the force on him during the Saber battle. But the presumption is because he knew (or sensed) that he couldnt simply ragdoll him, and would have to await an opening.

It wasnt Vaders goal to murder Luke though. He may have been willing to, but his goal was to turn him to the dark side, by forcing him to fight. So I doubt Force choking him would help achieve that goal.

2) It was a combination of that and superior speed, speed that was beyond what Maul had come to expect from Obi-Wan:

https://youtu.be/HrkFj6iepMs

At 1:55-
and at the moment that he hits Maul so quickly, Maul realises - Oh My Goodness ive misread this.... and if he is This Good, this must be the most important guard post in the Entire Galaxy.


As for Mace Windu, we can only speculate, but if you take ROTS Obi-Wans skill, then give him a power boost in the Force, then being a peer to Windu is in the conversation. We at least know he was a peer to Vader, and Vader has ridiculous feats, and in canon seems to be considered to be close to Palpatine in power. And we also know the gap between him and Maul was greater than ever.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
There is literally NO reason to suspect that Vader's lightsaber skills diminished after the Mustafar incident. Nothing in canon supports that

I have yet to come across a canon source stating that Vader's skills diminished.

Most I've seen are statements that he had to develop a new lightsaber style in order to overcome the restrictions of his bulky armor -- but that just means he had to fight differently with the suit than he did without it... Certainly doesn't imply that he was a lesser swordsman or w/e.

Originally posted by Psychotron
We saw the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan and Vader never tried any Force attacks. Maybe he just wanted to out-duel him to avenge his previous loss. If we're going by your reasoning then ROTJ Luke is a peer to Vader in Force abilities because Vader didn't own him with the Force.

I'm aware.

Old Ben took out Maul quickly because he knew what Maul was going to do and how to counter it. It was pure skill. I don't disagree that ANH Ben was close to Vader as a duelist, but that doesn't mean he'd beat Mace Windu.



He's definitely not above Sidious so that's how good that source is.

Whether you agree with it or not, canon is canon. There is nothing in canon that shows OR states that Vader's skills have diminished with a blade. His feats have shown he has improved vastly in the force and a canon sourcebook indicates his saber skills if anything INCREASED, since he's the best red lightsaber duelist there is.

Originally posted by relentless1
Obi Wan via war of attrition; he'd outlast Mace for sure, also if there's anybody that Mace would have absolutely nothing for Vapaad to draw from its Obi Wan lol

Mace can channel his own darkness to power him - you clueless-N00B.

"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."
―Mace Windu to Obi-Wan Kenobi

That being said, Mace absolutely shitstomps Kenobi here in any arena.