Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I just saw this article over at the BBC:


You can read the rest here

Oh no. And I always thought the difference between SW fans and Star Trek fans was that SW fans did NOT believe in what their films said.

Nope, we're all just as bad as each other!

Still, beats going to church every Sunday, unless you like that sort of thing. Which I know some of us do, just not me I'm afraid.

Afraid? Afraid of what?

NOt afriad, just saying that I'm not big on religion.

WOW RAZ.... I've heard a lot of things said about the Jedi philosphy but that's the most left field I've ever heard. And I don't wanna be compared to a Star Trek fan. WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!

Wait til George hears about this.

These people are pretty said. Maybe they turn in to GL worshipers.

Do you think they'll have a church shaped like the Millenium Falcon?

I will tell you right now- and I;ve supported a lot of sci-fi causes over time (bring back Blake's 7!)- NO-ONE is as bas as die-hard StarTrek fans. Even if this relgiion takes off, it will be nowhere near as bad as Trekdom

Mark of a troublsome ST fan- insists on the "Trekker" handle

What's that?

Anyway, I think this religion thing of real Jedi is pretty pathetic. Didn't anyone tell them it's only a movie.

Ahem, but some say the same about real religions. Me? I'd just let them get on with it. Faith is where you find it after all.

Oh come on. That is so out there. You can't compare something as flimsy as Jedi with any religion.

That's not necessarily true. And some things are very much not suitable for religious treatment.

Please explain.

Oh I know, but like I said Faith is where you find it. I have definate Faith, but absolutely no religion.

Faith in what?

I have faith that somewhere out there in the universe there is a higher purpose, a greater being. However, I have no idea what it may be, or how it mnay represent itself. Therefore it would be impossible to follow any religion as I would not be able to follow something that I would have doubts in.

Ok, this is very complex...

The main problem is, the people who should know the most about faith- the religions themselves- would be very uncomfortable in the idea that faith can come from any source at all, if the faith is IN that source. Some religions would behead you for such a belief.

A good definition of faith would help, buty is sadly impossible- though I assume we are using fiath in the religious sense, rather than the "having confidence and belief in" sense, which is a little different.

For example, as loyal fans most of us have 'faith' in George Lucas, but we don't worship him. And with good reason. People shouldn't be worshipped in a religious sense. Such belief is downright harmful, unless it is attached to a higher thing (like the Lamas).

Hence, although you CAN find faith anywhere, you're not necessarily right about it, and over-faith in a person often is just obsession.

In any case, this Jedi thing is nothing to do with faith. If they seriously beleived in it, thwty would never call themselves devotees of it because they would know that without the Force jedi-ship is impossible. What we have here is enthusiatic fans. To lable themselves as an actual religion is probably more an indication of society than an actual attempt at fraud, but it is worrying nonetheless.

OK, ok, you just got Waaayyyyy to scientific for me this late at night with this much wine....

I've been accused of being scientific again... guess I'll have to watch what I say...

Don't get technical with me!!!

Heres the very formal definition of "Faith", which BTW is described as a noun in the dictionary:

* Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing.
* Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at trust.
* Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
* Often Faith. Theology. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
* The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
A set of principles or beliefs.

When Lucas was thinking up Star Wars he said he was looking for a common base for all religions, which led him to "The Force" theory.

Thanks for the euducation, Raz.

I guess if you look at the bottom line, the Jedi are the good guys and if those people are just doing good things and treating others well, there shouldn't be anything real bad about it. Well, at least anything evil, anyway.

Makes the p[oint rather well.

Tell me Raz, you got that dictionary on your PC or do you have to copy-type it up everytime you give us one of those definitions.

I do more of a copy-paste from dictionary.com, much easier on the hands

Hehehe, I knew it!

Ok, back to organised religion then!

I'll lay good odds that these people are trivialising religion. The definition of religion has been badly expanded lately; just because you like something a lot doesn't mean it qualfies for that status. The logical extension of such thought is disastrous- just about anything you enjoy could be termed religious worship.

The whole point of defining something as a religion is to distinguish it. If you can make a religion out of anything you like, then we'd just need a new word to define the 'real' religions, and then we'd start all over again.

Which basically means a good talk/debate about religion. Ush, you did not get scientific with me at all. I applaude you, you have taken this thread to the level of a good debate about religion. Far too few on SW boards if you ask me. And about your general statements on faith and religion I follow you very much. As for the source of faith, I think it must come from man itself, although I do believe it can be stimulated from the outside by things like confirmation.

Cheers, buddy. This sort of thinking is a pet hobby of mine, so talking about it comes easily enough.

See, great minds DO think alike. Same here.

Yes, but then your talking about a single religion there. Who's to say you're even praying to or praising the right god in the first place. This is my whole issue with religion. I respect to rights of all individuals to worship whom they so choose, but in return I expect, nay demand, the right to hold true to my own faith in a greater purpose and to not have any on god pushed in my face.

Now I know no one here is doing that, I am aware that we have representation from a few different religious aspects, mine is just another.

I really do hate it though when the local church or the Jehovahs Witnesses come knocking on the door. What gives them the right to try and push their beliefs on me?

This post is all rather emotive and, unlike Ushgarak, I can not bring any facts to the party because I simply don't have them. Once again, this represents my thinking in not having any religious leaning. It's not that I don't understand, I have looked at the christian faith and a few others as well, but none of them hold enough of anything tangible to allow me to give my faith to them.

Fair enough. It's a very tricky issue. I think I'd better state that I'm NOT a Christian, nor do I disapprove of it. I WA a member of my school's Christian Union, though, becuase it was a great place for discussion. Being sadly adolescent at the time, though, I spent too much time mocking. Religious-wise, I got a rather more mature view on the whole thing in the sixth-form.

Yeah, as I said above, it can become rather emotive, especially when someone believes you're nocking their religion. I would ALWAYS fight to defend anyones religious beliefs, just as much as I would fight not to have them pushed on me.

That's great. One of the most depressing things I see is when the anti-religious people present arguments that are just as blinkered and ill-informed as the religious zealots they criticise... and a lot of people they criticise aren'tactaully over-zealous people at all.People always over judge from a vocal minority, so if some religious nutters exist some people always assume that therefore ALL relgiious people are nutty.

Well, being 2 sandwiches short of a picnic myself, I really couldn't accuse anyone else now could I...

I agree with having respect for people, religion and religious people. But such arguments as given by RC make it virtually impossible to talk about religion at all. Because if you'd like to explain something from a certain religion one likes to adhere to, it might be considered "pushed into someone's face". So how does one proceed on these matters? I think by ways of debate, LISTEN to what one has to say.

But so few can actually do this, due to fanaticism or total rejection of religion and religious people. As if every religious person WERE a pushy Jehova's Witness. At least debating/talking would work on boards like this. But I know it's problems as well. After all, it is not for nothing that TF.N for instance has a ban on religious topics if not strictly related to SW. I have some great debates and some really awful ones on the topic. And this one is still lingering. I am still indoubt on talking about it here. With Ush I do not see a problem, but RC has already made his stance clear: don't push anything in my face. So if someone IS religious, it means he should shut up about it, even though that might be the most important thing he believes in and holds dear to.
The same goes if you like talking about it. When it comes down to religion it seems you can't really take a stand. About SW one can say: "look, you're wrong, Sidious IS Palpy." Or "Anakin MUST kil Mace", "Ep2 will suck is GL does not shape up".
When you say something like that when it comes to religious terms, you're out of line. I think that is strange.

I don't agree at all queeq. Here we are discussing it, this would not be considered to be pushing it into anyones face.

What I meant, and I think you knew this really, was that when I'm sitting it the privacy of my own house I do not need, nor want, some joker knocking on my front door trying to talk religion at me. As far as I am concerned it's just the same as someone trying to sell me double glazing on my doorstep. If you read my post fully, that is exactly what I said...

When I go to church, as I do occationally, then I am prepared to listen and be open to the concepts being expressed, but when I'm eating my dinner, watching TV or playing with my son I do not need someone knocking on my door trying to teach me the "new truth" or whatever.

I have nothing against religion and I respect those who have the conviction of faith to live there lives, to whatever degree, by some form of religious belief. I do not have that ability in my soul. If that offends anyone of religious conviction then I am sorry but that is who I am and at the end of the day you need to be true to yourself above all other principles.

Queeq, you have TOTALLY misrepresented my post, choosing to ignore the facts and pick up badly on just a few of the points that I made. I don't appologise for my lack of religious faith, and as I sated i would ALWAYS defend the rights of anyone to maintain their religious beliefs.

What's more, I am MORE than happy to continue to debate religion in an open forum, though I do object to the way you have painted a very negative picture of me and indicated that I have stated the complete opposite when I haven't.

Queeq, I would very much suggest that you go back and read my posts fully, and then give SERIOUS consideration to appologising for you comments against me. It is this over-zealous kind of attitude that I do compare to the Jehovahs Witness that knocks on my door.

You appear, though I may be mistaken, to believe that I have totally abandoned any concept or wish to understand religion. This is a falsehood. I read the bible, I attend church a number of times a yeah, I also take a passing interest in other religious beliefs, I watch the religious channels on the TV, I listen to morning worships on the radio. Yet I still find myself unable to devote my faith to these concepts. Ins't that my right as much as it is yours to be a Christian or any other individual to worship their particular religious symbol?

Sorry to appear to rant, but I will not be misrepresented in my faith or beliefs.

Whoa! Sixth-form flashback! It;s a tricky subject alright. But we're all friends here, that's the important bit.

Religious tv is an illustration of religions'problem witbn popular culture. Correction- western religion.

As far as anyone having a right to worship what they like... that';s technically true, ut as I have said before, I am very uncomfortable with people thinking they can turn anything they like into a religion. The whole point is being missed.

Oh, that's true. This whole NZ think kinda demonstrates this. Religion, and the right to express it, can not be treated as a joke.

I wasn't trying to be unfriendly, but my point was that it's easy for someone to be judgemental of another, even when the facts are laid before one. queeq appears to have failed to read correctly what I had said, then made judgements on me based on 2 or three lines out of 50 or so...

Sorry queeq, but it's true.

Sorry RC, if I offended you. I didn't mean to do so if I did. I didn't mean to get so personal. Consider my remarks more general in exploring what people say about religion, faith and beliefs. I listen and respond. However, I do not think your arguments on religion and faith are very strong. I'm not saying anything about your personal beliefs or religion. Take it were you think it's right. But seeing how strongly you respond to my remarks, I doubt that a debate is possible. But let's try it. Once again, nothing personal, just responding to what you said. For instance, you said:

"I have faith that somewhere out there in the universe there is a higher purpose, a greater being. However, I have no idea what it may be, or how it mnay represent itself."

You say this excuses you for following any religion. I agree with you. But I do wonder if one could call this faith, other than faith in oneself. How can one believe in something if one doesn't know what it is, what consequences if may have for one's life or actions. It is merely a thought about the existence of a higher inspiration, not the search for it, least of all a way of surrendering to that source inspiration. Christians, Muslim, Hindu's, Boeddhists etc. have a faith in how the world works and what place man has in that world. They live according to teachings that were inspired, and these teachings give meaning to life.

In that sense these "Jedi" believers have a little more to go on. They might believe there is a life giving Force and that one should lead a life without hate, anger, fear etc. Because if not, then you would fall to the dark side which would then consume you and dominate your destiny forever. Unfortunately, this is ALL they have.

I have seen that religion has been cast out of our Western society in the last 40 years. But what have we received in return. This so-called tolerance? Isn't that closer to indifference (don't bother me and I won't bother you)? GL said he wants SW (among others) to trigger young people to think about God and higher inspiration. I think this is one of SW's great assets, personally that is. IMHO, in my personal view etc etc.

A few final points before I leave this non-debate. And please read right to the bottom cos that's where I sum it up in my own words.
That is a personally directed comment, once again it is the emnotion of the toic I guess, I know you don't mean anything by it. But see how easy it is....
I never said it excused me, in fact I was actually saying that I don't need to be excused. To say that someone would need to be excused for not having religious believes if beyond extremism in my humble view.

Religion has always and will always be an emotive issue (Yes I do LOVE that word!!!) Wars have been fought over it, people have been put to death over it, people have even taken their own lives over it

The fact that I have no firm religious beliefs is a testement to my wish to be open to many religious views. Maybe the Christians have a point, maybe it's the buddists or the hindu's or maybe it's some forgotten tribe out in the forests somewhere. I am open to all of these, though I understand some less than others and I would never claim to have any in depth understanding of any one.

I think my comments may have been taken out of context to a certain degree. I am more than happy to listen to and try to understand anyone religion, even yours queeq , but my referral to "In your face religion" merely pointed to the door knockers, who we see very frequently in my area, who knock on your door and try and sell you religion like a new mop. They get the same reaction from me and the double glazing sales man, which is normally to close the door in their face. I'm in my home, if I want religion at that time I will pick up a copy of the bible, or switch to the GOD or Inspiration channels on TV or even use the internet to find what I need.

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT
Please don't think I am closed off to religion, I merely have no one religion that provides me with the answers I seek. Yes I believe in the higher purpose, call that God if you will, but whether that is the Christian God, is it Buddah, is it in the words of Muhammad or is it in the many aspects of Hinsuism??? I really do not know, and therein is my problem, I just don't kno0w and if I don't know how could I possible put my faith in anything.

PLEASE, PLEASE don't stop discussing religion on my account, I am actually on your side in general, I'm just one of the undecided few.

Incidentally, if anyone out there wants to look at religion in general and to look at the differences and comparrisions in religious views then can I recommend this website, which I always find useful.
www.religioustolerance.org

queeq, to answer your question how one can believe in something and not know what it is.. I don't think everyone needs some outlined backstory to understand the basis of God..and I think some people don't want it, me and (apparently) the Jedi included. As for your comment about religion in the last 40 years...I think that's a rather simplified and somewhat false way to look at it.. It seems to me that there as always been alot of people who haven't really fully embraced a religion..the difference between now and today is that people are more aware of religous alternatives outside their area and live where as in past generations they basically labeled themselves as whatever people around them were labels and took it as a given. It wasn't that they were more religious or behaved better than us..it's just that they had their script down.

I truly agree with RC on the topic of door knockers. I don't want religion, any religion, showing up at my front door whenever it chooses and thrown "in my face". If I feel a sudden urge to study the Jehovahs faith, I'll go to the library, thank you very much. I don't go to Mass every Sunday and even if I did I don't think it would make me "more religious" in any respect. I go when I feel the need to confess, light a candle for someone or when "the spirit moves me". To practice and follow your religion devoutly is admirable, do not doubt, but the forcible infliction of your system of beliefs on others in whatever form, not just door knocking, is wrong. When asked in a previous topic about religion, I posted that I was a catholic, but didn't turn it into a pep rally for the pope. Your faith is intended, I feel, to be food for your soul, to be measured individually (even individually within the same religion) as one requires in different times thoughout ones life. Let's say I go to play a game of softball on a saturday afternoon. I don't think about God all day. Then after the game, after everyone has gone and I'm the last one there and the sun is going down and I watch it filled with color and I am consumed with God in all his blazing glory and I nearly choke on it. That would most likely move me to go to Mass the next day. But if I didn't stay and see all that and say, went out for dinner or out drinking with friends or something, I would probably not be moved. My faith is always there, don't get me wrong, but I actually DIGEST it when I feel my soul NEEDS it. As usual, IMHO.

I'm sorry to see, dear RC, that you still think I am on personal attack mode. My apologies were, so it seems, not accepted. I tried to generalise the discussion, but unfortunately you took it personally or I failed in the attempt.

Dim, post-war secularisation is enormous. You can't say people are more open to alternative religions, since in our Western world religion has gotten a lot smaller presence. There ARE less believers or people who claim to be religious. And even among those who claim to be religious, make up their own version. Be that as it may, the numbers contradict what you say.

I did not say that one needs to understand the basis of God to have faith. But I wonder if one can actually have faith in something one does not know what it is, not knowing IF it is at all. To say "I believe there is something, but I don't know what"(NOTE: not quoting RC here, I hear this a lot) is IMHO-personal-view-not-attacking-anyone-just-debating-posing-an-opinion-humble-as-it-may-be-can-be-discarded-at-will-just-another-look-at-things-sorry-in-advance-for-any-misunderstandings-stance not faith. It is merely a thought.

Faith has to do with dependance, trust, meaning. If there is nothing to define anything at all, I still hold the opinion that that attitude (still not attacking anyone) is merely thought and not faith.

OK, I see that point but that is, as you quite right pointed out, your opinion, based, I would imagine, on your particular religious convictions.

Each persons faith is found within and, therefore, the statement you made, whilst true for you, may not be true for anyone else. I believe the definition that Raz posted earlier would also bare this out.

I didn't feel personally attacked as much as that certain elements of what I had said where being taken to stand on their own rights when they could only stand it considered within the greater whole of my text.

I am 100% for religious tolerance: That being the right of every individual to practice their own religious beliefs, however I do not believe that anyone should be forced to accept the religion of another just because the other thinks they should. Not that I am saying that anyone here is trying to do that.

It isn't wrong to express no particular religious belief and the statement of knowing there is something but to what is made by agnoctics throughout the world possibly as often as the loads prayer is said by christians. Does the agnostic not have as much right the their belief as the christian? To discard it as "merely a thought" is to insult their belief.

If the agnostic were to discount Jesus or God then would the christian feel agrieved at that. A true agnostic will never do that, though an aetheist may.

See, I knew this could become a healthy debate!!!

Okay you tolerance freaks out there. Let's see how tolerant you really are, since I think you are deceiving yourselves on your religious tolerance.

Let's take your beloved Jehova's Witnesses. I am not one, so rest assured. I will not feel personally attacked in any way.

Jehova's Witnesses see it as their reilgious task you spread the Word of God to everyone. They see it as a compulsory task to go door by door to tell you what they believe. Now you see that you don't want anythings pushed in your face. You want them NOT to knock on your door, you want them gone and never to return again. How tolerant is that? I'll tell you: it's not.
Now, I think they can be pretty annoying, but if you say you REALLY are tolerant, you'd say: pardon, but I have no interest in what you have to tell me. I wish you well.
Brushing them off means you're intolerant. You want to be left alone by them because you leave them alone. That sounds like indifference to me, IMHO-OC-another-view-not-attacking-anyone-nothing-personal-just-a-view etc.

'Tolerance freaks'... is it just me, or does that sound wrong?

Now we've touched on anohter subject, with the meaning of tolerance. It's quite a wide ranging word. In the end, when people talk of ebing tolerant it comes down to this:

People can do what they like, within well-defined common sense boundaries.

That may sound hypocritical, but you;ve got to have your boundaries somewhere.And that can range from the 'you have no right to psychotically murder me', all the way down to 'you have no right to spread the word of God into my face like that.'

In a literal sense, this isn't tolerance, of course. But practically speaking, it's how tolerance must work, and it;s better than any other option.

But if you want it said... in truth, no-one is 100% tolerant, on any subject. The idea is ludicrous, you'd have to approve absolutely anything. And once you accept that tolerance must have boundaries... well it gets very complex from thereon in.

But I don't think anyone need feel bad for this small amount of hypocrisy in altruistic thought.

Wise words, Ush. Exactly my point. So who sets the boundaries? It does get tricky from here on. If one believes in a higher being who knows all, sees all etc. He could set them. He'd be the only one who could. But since he's gone it's all rather complicated. Each his own I guess, do what is good in thine own eyes.

So, religion. Jedi as a religion on earth in the non-movie world. Is that possible?

I really don't think so. The Star Wars movies, as a moral tale, have a brilliant get-out clause in the form of the Force. The whole Jedi concept doesn't work without it. In the end, all you can be is a nice person, and in so many ways that falls flat of the Jedi concept.

Yes, it is rather flimsy. But it works in the movie because you can do so many magic tricks using the Force.

Queeq, you have picked up on one religious aspect, that I'm not sure your facts are 100% on anyway and used that as your entire arguement. That is just a little too flimsy for my liking.

The Jehovahs witnesses are merely a denomination within the Christian religion, their movement is less that 150 years old and I do object to their methods. The methods they employ are not so much based on the Christain religion but on the teachings on one man, Charles Russell and his view on how they should spread their word. As far as them practicing their worship, that's not an issue, but when they come onto my property and try and preach it to me, usually at the most inconvenient times then I do object.

This has NOTHING to do with any kind of religious intollerance, but everything to do with my right to practice my own beliefs and to enjoy the privacy of my own home. In fact, I would like to point out that it's the fact that they are Jehovahs Witnesses but that they turn up unannounced and expect me to listen. It's not just religious cold callers who get the door slam from me, I do not allow ANY cold callers to talk with me on my doorstep. And NO I do not what an damned Double Glazing.

As to the NZ Jedi, i do not believe they have any case, and should the governement try to prosecute then I believe they should get all that is coming to them. To state that they are A Jedi or The Force is a falsehood based upon an email, they ahve nothing demonstarble to show this religion and therefore they have commited a crime.

Maybe it's a good idea not to get too bogged down in specifics; we'd need an entire forum to discuss the subject then. But I think we're in general agreement on the NZ rumour thing; when GL made Star Wars into a moral tale, I'm pretty sure this wasn't the result he wanted.

I can deal. I just don't want to be painted as the bad guy just foir how I choose to lve my life. What's next, burned at the stake???

So, not only are you intolerant towards certain demoninations, you also show little hospitality. Just face it RC, that IS intolerance. I do not judge you for it, I don't think tolerance is bad per se. I myself cannot accept for instance a concept like JIHAD, a holy war to destroy everything does is not sharing your religion, like the muslims have. Is that kind of intolerance of mine bad? Judge for yourselves.

Why NOT dedicate a whole thread to this, Ush? I kinda like it.

Well, I said we'd need a whole new FORUM to properly discuss it, and that wasn't an error.

Look, I'm pretty sure we're agreeing far more than we are disagreeing.

1. People can believe what they want
2. They aren't always right about it
3. Such belief can easily bring forth bad or good things, depending on the circumstances.
4. All things must have limits
5. People are fallible.

That's what it all comes down to.

I had this long old reply here but I have deleted it because it has become personal and I no longer feel I can contribute without it becoming more persaonl.

I stand by everything I've said, but to have words put in my mouth becasue I don't "conform" is the exact kind of intolorance I can't deal with.

Comform? Who said anything about comforming. Be what you think is wise.

So a religion FORUM. Hmmmm, wonder if Raz would appreciate a battle field on his site.

I understand RC's frustrations...


As for a religous forum..I think it could be a possiblity if and when the board got ALOT bigger..right now the GDF can handle these topics just fine.

OKay too bad.

And I understand RC's frustration as well. After all, it's ME.

queeq, you continue to believe that I have this personal vendetta against you. I have no idea why, but please get it out of your system cos you are wronmg on that at least.

Maybe in time you'll understand.....

No need to be angry at me. Again.

See? Once agin you think I'm angry at you... Whatever for?

Well, read back your previous posts directed at me and judge for yourself if you can sense the slightest hint of anger there. If not, then I am a nutter. Fine with me either way.

Not anger, frustration. To get angry over that would silly. It's only a forum after all.

Therefore you ahve just confirmed what we suspected. QUEEQ IS A NUTTER!!!!

Yeah, but he's OUR nutter. And that's a positive boon for stimulating discussion. I mean, we're all a little nits, occasioanlly.

See, you do NOT like me.

Why, because you a nutter. queeq I love you like a very distant cousin I've never met!!!

I rest my case.

My secret revealed! I am a big queeq hater! I cannot spell 'nuts'! Soon I will depose tyou all! Bwahahahahaha!

Ooh... did I type that out loud?

Anyhow. Religion's great. To a certain extent.

Ush is my friend, although he hates mu guts. But I forgive him.

Ooh.. perhaps YOU'RE the Messiah... actually, this is not a good topic to get onto that subject

Huh? Hoe's that making your p[oint. you saying I hate my own family!!! Boy, you are confused.

Well, where else?

Maybe I am the Messiah, I'm hated enough to be one.

Oh gosh, you have delusions of Godhood now.

Sorry, queeq, we all love you and you know it.

Boy, this is a bit of a posting frenzy we have going here!

Blast, another career down the drain.

Yeah, we all wuv you queeqer...

Et tu, RC?

Yeah, kisses all round ya big stud!!!

Obviously you don't know your "Julius Caesar" ?

Does he run that littel Italian rerstaurant opposite the tavern?

Errr.... yes, sure, RC.

Having a month named after you- that's good enough for anyone. There was a God people could believe in, even if it was all ludicrous...

He does, Great! Can you give him a call and ask him to rustle up 10 portions of Garlic Bread with cheese to go and 5 Blood Sausage Pizzas!

Look at Augustus. They made him a God, and he didn't even want it. Strange times...

Yeah, but I do want that Pizza so queeq, pull your fingur out!

I'll just continue to post posts that get ignored, if that's ok with everyone? They are even vageily on topic.

Claudius got made a god in Briton simply because no Britons knew who Augustus was. That should tell you something.

OK, so if I'd even studied the Roman's I might have an idea what you were on about. Just get my pizza.

It has turned into a religion thread RC, not a food thread. That's Gundy's territory.

Weren't all Roman Emperors considered gods then? Or at least after they died?

Unfortunatley I didn't pay attention in Roman history class, but if Ush will brief us on this information that he has obviously obtained from Bothan spies, perhaps we can raise our intellect a little. Ush ?

CCCCCCCCCClaudius a god. WWWWWhat a llllaugh.

God smod...I want my Monkey men!..err..I mean..Making someone a god is like naming yourself CEO in the Roman Empire...it's just a bunch of titling...which (please note) men looooooooooooooooooove to do. egomania.

But they learnt it all from the women!!!

Thanks for the credit.

Well at least you admit it!!!

Hmmmm....queeq you now have to call me Queen Mayhem. Hehehe.

Just a letter apart anyway

Sorry Finti, I have a copyright on that Joke.

*issues a cease and disist order to Finti*

See you in court!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT="">

Hey! Finti is a BBC classics man! Either that or a Roert Graves fan. Or both.

Actually, not that many Roman Emperors became Gods (officially, anyway). It was normally done at the request of the Senate, rather than the Emperors, who tended to find it all rathyer embarassing, in order to improve relations with foreign dominions, who liked a good god to worship.

Caligula actually DID seek Godhood, and awarded it to himself. But he was totally nuts. Being named after a sandle does that to you.

I`ve got cable and that includes BBC prime. Claudius was an excellent serie.
Caligula; talking about decadence, perverted guy at least he was in the movie. It was a good thing CCCClaudius took over after Caligula`s assasination. They loved killing their leaders in good old Rome.
RC what joke?

They did in that period. Harsh times.And religion then was nothing like how we see it now, in any way at all.

Nah no change in religion they belived the unbelivable then as they do today.

Unbelievable for those who do not believe. That is why you fail.

And Caligula wasn't nuts. He had the best candidate for a senator ever: his horse.

Incitatus? His views on land reform were laughable...

He could have joined the EU ministers.

Well, I feel it must be time to drive a dagger between the shoulderblades of the thread and kill it....

I wont fail it is you my friend who are mistaken about many things

So certain are you.

So RC, you've turned mod then?

NOt here, no, I was just saying....

... that you felt like closing it?

Well, I TRIED to keep it on topic.

You did and that's not the reason. Threads are only allowed up to 100 posts. That is the reason. We can start a "Son of Religion" thread.

OH please don't.

Hmmm, shall I let this go one?........nah .......closing topic

well 2 start with i dunno what is the differnce with star trek and star wars (can anyone please explain it to me) and 2 well i think i agree qith queeq or something like that i mean c'mon SW may be a really good movie but a religion...??? i think it's pathetic, well i mean if u want 2 b a star trek or star wars whatever religious i don't care i mean do wahtever u want but in my opinon 4 myself o think it's pathetic.

sure
1) star wars is created by lucas and has hyperspace, han solo, luke, yoda, jedi etc. in it, the new movie is schedualed for 2005. Latest was Attack of the Clones if it rings a bell
Star trek is with picard and spock and such (the oldies) janeway is the new one, they battle the borg from time to time

2) it will never BE a religion, since a religion is worshipping one or more gods, the jedi don't have a god

their 'god' is the force.

they dont worship it, but it is an all powerful force that unites everything.

erm, no it isn't

"for my ally is the force", he didn't say "for my faith" or "for my belief"
it's an energy field they use to gain powers and with those powers to protect the innocent, uphold justice etc.
they don't worship it

I'd love to see the results from the last concensus where a number of people placed Jedi as a religion. Anyone know?

A religion does not have to worship a God!

However, this was, and always will be, nonsense. In no western country does this tactic actually WORK- it simply gets noted as a respondant category, not created as a religion!

Blimey though, this one takes me back...

No religion allowed in KMC

where do they say that the force created the universe?

not even jedi's???

Jedi fundamentalim is to much dangerous for the Empire

The jedi live life a certain way as opposed to being an organized religion. Plus jedi are awesome. I have always wanted to be a jedi.

Its more of a code than anything else.

jedi religion? it's official.....THIS takes star wars too far.

There was a census in the UK a few years ago, and there was a big campaign to get people to put jedi down as their religious belief, so that there would be enough people believing in it for it to be an official religion.

They got enough people, but the goverment still refused to classify it as an official religion

Err... please read what I said.

That whole idea was false. At no point ever does any census in a western country- that I kno of- have the power to create a new religion. It was false in New Zealand and it was false here too. They did not get enough people for anything other than for it to be recognised as a respondant category- no amount of people could have made it a religion; that is just not possible.

Sects are possible, and people make up sects easely. Just few weeks back I was invited into one....Its not impossible, it can be hghly unlikely though.

oh

So who here is a jedi

BTW, do you have to have a high midi chlorian count or force powers to be a jedi, or do you just need to follow the jedi code?

You have to follow the code and have a midiclorian count. My count will be 16,000.

BTW I have just recently graduated from jedi padawan to Jedi Knight. I need a couple more people to be knights and two to be masters.

I'm a jedi

I even have my own purple lightsaber.

I want a lightsaber!!

Unsure what id do with it though possiblt go on a killing rampage...

Jedi being religion is stupid! But i guess if Mohammed and Jesus could do it, so can George Lucas

hey, enough people worship him already

I think that george lucas is not god, but he was just a prophet, chosen by the force to bring the jedi faith to the world

I gently turn my red lightsaber through the air in a graceful manner. Someone throws a grapefruit at me and I slice it in half. Grapefruits are what we jedi will train with.

You all are gullible with a capital G

forgive me if someone already posted this link:


http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.htm

I AM A JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to be one too. I dont like star ars, but Jedi wear cool clothes which are weird, so i wanna be one.

next time you post; DO read the entire thread

High fives yerssot.

I was going to, but i'm way too lazy for that

I noticed

if you did, you would have noticed no one believed you could ever make it into a religion

actually, i just went through it, and some people did seem to be arguing so; that link disproves any argument of the sort and carries more authority than a random boardie.

that's very nice EB *yawns*

...and Ush, you are by far the most learn'd individual i've come to know on KMC...*realizes i know so few*