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Dick Grayson vs Matt Murdock

1: Gearless Detective outfit Dick vs Black Suit Daredevil.
2: Armored Robin vs Daredevil Costume Matt in hand 2 hand.
3: Gadgets allowed.

Hard to pick H2H. Both are virtually peak humans (when fully fit and healthy) who can steamroll through fodder and punch above their weight class (Black Sky, Deathstroke) via pure skill.

With gear, I back Grayson. IIRC, Jason mentioned his suit was something like 10 times tougher than Kevlar or some shit, and Dick's new suit is even better. Matt's suit is nowhere near that level of toughness. Plus, taser batons > regular batons.

Oh, I guess I should actually ask. Is this Dick as Robin or Nightwing? Because he's notably better as Nightwing, both via feats and statements (the whole "stronger, faster" shtick from when he was briefly in prison). With just his Robin feats, I would lean more towards Matt.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Hard to pick H2H. Both are virtually peak humans (when fully fit and healthy) who can steamroll through fodder and punch above their weight class (Black Sky, Deathstroke) via pure skill.

With gear, I back Grayson. IIRC, Jason mentioned his suit was something like 10 times tougher than Kevlar or some shit, and Dick's new suit is even better. Matt's suit is nowhere near that level of toughness. Plus, taser batons > regular batons.

Oh, I guess I should actually ask. Is this Dick as Robin or Nightwing? Because he's notably better as Nightwing, both via feats and statements (the whole "stronger, faster" shtick from when he was briefly in prison). With just his Robin feats, I would lean more towards Matt.
I take Dick.

Pretty good match. Matt seems a bit more agile and acrobatic but Dick seems to hit just a bit harder. Dick seems more brutal but Matt has demonstrated better damage soak.

For h2h I'd lean towards Matt, mostly because he's gone up against more consistently higher skilled opponents and showed heart. Not that Dick hasn't gone up against difficult odds, just that Matt has gone up against more. Plus the damage soak. Still a close fight though.

With gear I'd go with Dick, as his gear is just of higher caliber than DD's. Still won't be easy.

Don't know about Dick hitting harder. Matt has sent people sailing back or completely killed their forward momentum with some of his attacks, even shattering cinder blocks in the process in one instance:

http://i.imgur.com/GmR2Itb.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11137/111373078/6819922-6629353307-66418.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818727-4557185306-Petty.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11118/111183530/6656996-4614096016-giphy.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818730-6777679763-Posit.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NiftyHotFritillarybutterfly-mobile.mp4

Not to mention the dude is beefy enough to do this:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818729-5415922215-68107.gif

It's just as I have pointed out in the past. Netflix made their fodder unreasonably durable a lot of the time to stretch out fight scenes. I mean they even had the boxer guy in S3 who came to spar with injured Matt outright remark that he hits really hard, despite the shape he was in. And it wasn't just with Daredevil. IIRC, they even had a guy still able to make a run for it after getting hit in the face with a sledgehammer by an angry Punisher lol. And this was after spending an entire episode showing Frank smashing down walls with the same hammer swings.

The only fodder treated as complete fodder were Cage bad guys...they were made of styrofoam and he was steel.

Well, with Cage they had no choice. With the others, you can still apply a bit of suspension of disbelief (though they also seriously pushed it with Jessica on a number of occasions). But when you have a guy who can put his fist through steel-reinforced concrete... Yeah, fodder are going to have a bad time. But that was also one of that show's weakest points. A lot of boring, one-sided action scenes, where Cage literally just walked his way through the fight.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Don't know about Dick hitting harder. Matt has sent people sailing back or completely killed their forward momentum with some of his attacks, even shattering cinder blocks in the process in one instance:

http://i.imgur.com/GmR2Itb.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11137/111373078/6819922-6629353307-66418.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818727-4557185306-Petty.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11118/111183530/6656996-4614096016-giphy.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818730-6777679763-Posit.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NiftyHotFritillarybutterfly-mobile.mp4

Not to mention the dude is beefy enough to do this:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297011/6818729-5415922215-68107.gif

It's just as I have pointed out in the past. Netflix made their fodder unreasonably durable a lot of the time to stretch out fight scenes. I mean they even had the boxer guy in S3 who came to spar with injured Matt outright remark that he hits really hard, despite the shape he was in. And it wasn't just with Daredevil. IIRC, they even had a guy still able to make a run for it after getting hit in the face with a sledgehammer by an angry Punisher lol. And this was after spending an entire episode showing Frank smashing down walls with the same hammer swings.

It's not like the fighters in Titans don't regularly send fodder flying either. But I seem to recall Dick's blows usually spraying more blood and even breaking bones here and there. Not quite as usual for Matt.

Jessica I never understood. She can hold up an SUV with one hand and push a car through a store. But normal people can eat her hits all day long.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's not like the fighters in Titans don't regularly send fodder flying either. But I seem to recall Dick's blows usually spraying more blood and even breaking bones here and there. Not quite as usual for Matt. Which is why Vault mentions Netflix making their fodder more durable than usual.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's not like the fighters in Titans don't regularly send fodder flying either. But I seem to recall Dick's blows usually spraying more blood and even breaking bones here and there. Not quite as usual for Matt.

The outright superhumans in the show, sure. But can you post examples of Dick ragdolling opponents in that manner on multiple occasions? And Matt broke plenty of bones. A running theme with Claire in DD s1 is how she commented on thugs ending up in the hospital with a bunch of broken bones after encountering the "man in black." In a s2 scene, when Matt goes to see Madam Gao, she asks where her men are. Matt responds with something along the lines of, "I broke their legs."


Edit: And not saying Matt even hits harder. But don't think there is enough evidence to say Dick has it there either.

Originally posted by KingD19
Jessica I never understood. She can hold up an SUV with one hand and push a car through a store. But normal people can eat her hits all day long.

Well, in S1. They did get better as time went by. IIRC, she did put that other PI guy in the hospital by basically shoving him.

But to elaborate on striking, put it this way. If we put Matt and Dick in a room with a machine to test how hard they punch and kick and they each had a go, I wouldn't be willing to put money down on who would be the definitive winner. But that's just my personal take on it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The outright superhumans in the show, sure. But can you post examples of Dick ragdolling opponents in that manner on multiple occasions? And Matt broke plenty of bones. A running theme with Claire in DD s1 is how she commented on thugs ending up in the hospital with a bunch of broken bones after encountering the "man in black." In a s2 scene, when Matt goes to see Madam Gao, she asks where her men are. Matt responds with something along the lines of, "I broke their legs."


Edit: And not saying Matt even hits harder. But don't think there is enough evidence to say Dick has it there either.

I re-watched the fight scenes in Titans in order to find you clips... but it seems I need to take back what I said. In most of those scenes where Dick knocks back an opponent, breaks bones or sprays blood with a single hit he's actually doing it with some weapon in hand.

I could find a few samples of powershots from Hawk but almost none pure h2h for Dick.

Just just disregard my comment about being a harder hitter. I still do think Dick is the more brutal/cruel fighter, but it won't change my answer in which case I think DD wins h2h and Dick wins w/ gear.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I re-watched the fight scenes in Titans in order to find you clips... but it seems I need to take back what I said. In most of those scenes where Dick knocks back an opponent, breaks bones or sprays blood with a single hit he's actually doing it with some weapon in hand.

I could find a few samples of powershots from Hawk but almost none pure h2h for Dick.

Just just disregard my comment about being a harder hitter. I still do think Dick is the more brutal/cruel fighter, but it won't change my answer in which case I think DD wins h2h and Dick wins w/ gear.

Well, I don't think there is much in it in terms of striking (or overall stats, really). As I said, I certainly wouldn't put money down on it. The main differences are really Dick's gear and Matt's lengthier melee record against a larger variety of established opponents.

goodmatc but i'd give slight edge to matt