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I mean just because it has an S on it doesn't make it Superman, it to me is like including Cyborg Superman as a version of Superman in discussions only sillier. It's not Kryptonian, it's a moniter construct.

Which wouldn't work without the actual Superman being in it tbf.

Thought Robot representing the stories of superman himself, So he should be a Superman imo

Thot Robot is a Thot

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Which wouldn't work without the actual Superman being in it tbf. Surly that should be Superman in the Thought Robot?

Not at all.

Here's the basis of my premise. TR is a weapon/vehicle, much like a mech. It is something driven, not JUST by SUPERMAN. Ultraman is there too.

People like to say, "Oh, well he's powered by Superman so it's the same thing!" Wrong. Here in this panel, Adam clearly says it's powered by dualities. Split, opposing forces. TR is powered by the yin-yang pull between Ultra-Man and Superman, not by Superman himself.

https://i.postimg.cc/TyW81LH6/pot.jpg

Another popular falsehood is that Superman is in control. I have a theory about that too. People come to that conclusion because the exposition is from Clark's pov. I think that's wrong. Ultra-Man gets exposition nowhere in the book. Clark is the hero of the title. But Ultra-Man is clearly as conscious as Clark is, via this panel

https://i.postimg.cc/w396f2GR/ant.jpg

nothing at all says he's in control. Adam EXPLICITLY says the TR is powered by DUALITY. Meaning two. That's why both are in there


TR is a device powered by the idea of duality of Ultra and Clark but is in no way actually Superman. Both Superman and Ultraman are expelled from the wrecked TR with no injuries because ITS NOT THEM TAKING DAMAGE

https://i.postimg.cc/56TWVSn3/dec.jpg

TR is the cosmic version of one of Starks IM drone bodies. It's powered by esoterica rather than tech but still same concept. A made thing, powered by an actual being.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Not at all.

Here's the basis of my premise. TR is a weapon/vehicle, much like a mech. It is something driven, not JUST by SUPERMAN. Ultraman is there too.

People like to say, "Oh, well he's powered by Superman so it's the same thing!" Wrong. Here in this panel, Adam clearly says it's powered by dualities. Split, opposing forces. TR is powered by the yin-yang pull between Ultra-Man and Superman, not by Superman himself.

https://i.postimg.cc/TyW81LH6/pot.jpg

Another popular falsehood is that Superman is in control. I have a theory about that too. People come to that conclusion because the exposition is from Clark's pov. I think that's wrong. Ultra-Man gets exposition nowhere in the book. Clark is the hero of the title. But Ultra-Man is clearly as conscious as Clark is, via this panel

https://i.postimg.cc/w396f2GR/ant.jpg

nothing at all says he's in control. Adam EXPLICITLY says the TR is powered by DUALITY. Meaning two. That's why both are in there


TR is a device powered by the idea of duality of Ultra and Clark but is in no way actually Superman. Both Superman and Ultraman are expelled from the wrecked TR with no injuries because ITS NOT THEM TAKING DAMAGE

https://i.postimg.cc/56TWVSn3/dec.jpg

TR is the cosmic version of one of Starks IM drone bodies. It's powered by esoterica rather than tech but still same concept. A made thing, powered by an actual being. Hate to agree with you but, yes, it's powered by both.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Hate to agree with you but, yes, it's powered by both.

Yeah . It used duality. Opposing opposites. Not once did it say it needed supes power specifically. Not. Once. It was powered by duality so technically had Black Adam been there with Shazam, they too could have powered it.

It used supes cuz his polar opposite, evil Supes was there. it's the concept of opposed forces that power TR, NOT KRYPTONIANS lmao

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Not at all.

Here's the basis of my premise. TR is a weapon/vehicle, much like a mech. It is something driven, not JUST by SUPERMAN. Ultraman is there too.

People like to say, "Oh, well he's powered by Superman so it's the same thing!" Wrong. Here in this panel, Adam clearly says it's powered by dualities. Split, opposing forces. TR is powered by the yin-yang pull between Ultra-Man and Superman, not by Superman himself.

https://i.postimg.cc/TyW81LH6/pot.jpg

Another popular falsehood is that Superman is in control. I have a theory about that too. People come to that conclusion because the exposition is from Clark's pov. I think that's wrong. Ultra-Man gets exposition nowhere in the book. Clark is the hero of the title. But Ultra-Man is clearly as conscious as Clark is, via this panel

https://i.postimg.cc/w396f2GR/ant.jpg

nothing at all says he's in control. Adam EXPLICITLY says the TR is powered by DUALITY. Meaning two. That's why both are in there


TR is a device powered by the idea of duality of Ultra and Clark but is in no way actually Superman. Both Superman and Ultraman are expelled from the wrecked TR with no injuries because ITS NOT THEM TAKING DAMAGE

https://i.postimg.cc/56TWVSn3/dec.jpg

TR is the cosmic version of one of Starks IM drone bodies. It's powered by esoterica rather than tech but still same concept. A made thing, powered by an actual being. It clearly stated it was representing Superman's stories
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And though it was controlled by Superman consciousness, Ultraman worshipping Mandrakk so he certainly wouldn't help superman defeating him
https://ibb.co/rtfz8cW

Um no, The TR exists independently of Clark. It is NOT Clark

even IF Superman was driving, it's still not him. He was piloting a robot. Period. DC itself designated TR as an OBJECT. DC doesn't consider it Superman. DC. Says. It's. An. Object. By definition, that means it's not Superman, i.e. a being

Takes a real fool to dispute the creators take on it's creation 😂😂😂

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yeah . It used duality. Opposing opposites. Not once did it say it needed supes power specifically. Not. Once. It was powered by duality so technically had Black Adam been there with Shazam, they too could have powered it.

It used supes cuz his polar opposite, evil Supes was there. it's the concept of opposed forces that power TR, NOT KRYPTONIANS lmao What? The comic stated on panel clearly only Superman( His essence) could save them, And during his battle with mandrakk it was blatanly stated It was Superman stories could beat mandrakk and it was superman who controlling the thought robot all the time
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Um no, The TR exists independently of Clark. It is NOT Clark

even IF Superman was driving, it's still not him. He was piloting a robot. Period. DC itself designated TR as an OBJECT. DC doesn't consider it Superman. DC. Says. It's. An. Object. By definition, that means it's not Superman, i.e. a being

Takes a real fool to dispute the creators take on it's creation 😂😂😂 It is an object that could receive stories, And only Superman stories could beat mandrakk in Morrison cosmology. So safely to say it is a version of superman imo

Its like Whirly making a thread asking who's the most powerful human.

And disqualifying Starbrand, Quasar, GLs, Iron Man etc because the various companies define it as an 'object' (Starbrand, Negabands, GL ring, IM armour etc).

Composite is a version of the actual character. Superman doesn't become TR. TR is a created thing. A perfect example is a Stark drone. Created by and nominally controlled by Tony, but not valid as a composite version. It's literally exactly the same except Clark didn't make TR and it's empowered and controlled cosmically instead of technologically

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its like Whirly making a thread asking who's the most powerful human.

And disqualifying Starbrand, Quasar, GLs, Iron Man etc because the various companies define it as an 'object' (Starbrand, Negabands, GL ring, IM armour etc). surely most of those are superhuman or meta human by designation and Iron Man is a normal human.

No matter how you bend it, a machine controlled by Superman, however he controls it, is not Superman. It's a machine controlled by Superman

it's a robot remotely controlled by esoteric energies. It's called thought ROBOT. It's a construct. It's entry in DC database is as an OBJECT. Indisputable

It essence is Superman stories. https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And It clearly stated it only purpose was to defeat the ultimate enemy(i.e Superman stories beating the shitty out of mandrakk):https://ibb.co/tP1Spcz
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
it appearance design specifically related to superman
Similar to superman w superman sword still recognized as a version of superman

Originally posted by Putinbot1
surely most of those are superhuman or meta human by designation and Iron Man is a normal human.

They're only superhuman with their gear. Without it they're just humans.

But nobody separates them. If I made a thread asking for the most powerful versions of Batman, GLBatman would be up there. But he's doing so with his ring.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
It essence is Superman stories. https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And It clearly stated it only purpose was to defeat the ultimate enemy(i.e Superman stories beating the shitty out of mandrakk):https://ibb.co/tP1Spcz
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
it appearance design specifically related to superman
Similar to superman w superman sword still recognized as a version of superman


TR is NOT at ALL Superman. You drive a car. Is the car YOU? Supes isn't even the creator of the armor or even the sole energy powering it. It's like a goddamn mecha driven by consciousness rather than joysticks. It's a thing. An object. A weapon. It is NOT Clark Kent/Kal-El and therefore not Superman and not actually a factor in composite Superman.

I got one. Is Ultron actually Pym? Cuz it's literally his brain engrams. And it's actually fully autonomous. By your logic Ultron is more Pym than TR is Clark and therefore composite Pym includes Ultron

Neither isGuy Gardner his ring, or Quasar his Negabands, it Tony his armour.

So in future threads, if people ask for most powerful versions of Tony, they'd better not name armours lmao, unless it's like Extremis or something.

And if I ask for most powerful versions of Thor, it better not be Thor with any equipment lol.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I got one. Is Ultron actually Pym? Cuz it's literally his brain engrams. And it's actually fully autonomous. By your logic Ultron is more Pym than TR is Clark and therefore composite Pym includes Ultron

No, Ultron isn't Pym because Ultron is fully autonomous, like you said

But yes, we DO include Pymtron in our versions of Pym...

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
TR is NOT at ALL Superman. You drive a car. Is the car YOU? Supes isn't even the creator of the armor or even the sole energy powering it. It's like a goddamn mecha driven by consciousness rather than joysticks. It's a thing. An object. A weapon. It is NOT Clark Kent/Kal-El and therefore not Superman and not actually a factor in composite Superman. If you making a thread asking which version of hal is the most powerful, I'm sure Hal w Krona's Power Gauntlet will be there.
It only used once by Superman and it essence was superman stories. IOW, Only belong to superman

DC says it's an object. So it is. And an object cannot be a version of a being. Amazo isn't an object because he posseses his own consciousness.

Can TR exist without Ultra Man? Nope. So it isn't Superman. It's a cosmic weapon powered by two beings

Controlling a robot isn't a version of a character. It's someone controlling a robot. Period. And it's actually two characters, so....

Thor and Mjolnir are actually two separate entities (Mother Storm and Thor).

In future, all Thor versions must not have Mjolnir.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, Ultron isn't Pym because Ultron is fully autonomous, like you said

But yes, we DO include Pymtron in our versions of Pym...

Thats ONLY because they recently became one

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Thats ONLY because they recently became one

Yeah, exactly.

Otherwise we don't.

Because Ultron is FULLY autonomous. The TR isn't.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, exactly.

Otherwise we don't.

Because Ultron is FULLY autonomous. The TR isn't.

and TR still ISN'T Superman. it's not a version of superman, Its it's own character, even the monitors call him a robot

EXPLAINED right here. ONLY infused with their essence ....it is in fact not Superman. Literally a damn weapon lmao

https://i.postimg.cc/VJFdfFk3/thou.jpg

its NOT a form of the character. That's the point.
Sinestro and Hal's actual being were part of those fusions. It has nothing to do with Ultraman being g a part of the equation. It's that a machine isnt Superman. The Destroyer armor isnt composite whoever's energy empowered it. Not unless they physically inhabited the armor. Cant just slap an S on a robot and call it Superman...

Really feels like people are just splitting hairs for no real reason, tbh.

It's a suit of armour Superman wore to fight Mandrakk. Just like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne or Hal Jordan or Rhodey wears a suit of armour/piece of equipment to do battle. I'm not seeing the issue here.

This issue is named Alberto

If Thanos has the IG, apparently he's not a version of Thanos....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If Thanos has the IG, apparently he's not a version of Thanos....

lol what? Because ITS Thanos with gems not thanos and Adam Warlock and the gems.

It was Jor-El and Lara, not Dax Novu, that made Superman....never understand why this is a hard concept to grasp.

Gauntlet =/= completely different entity.
More accurate comparison would be Odin in Destroyer armor

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really feels like people are just splitting hairs for no real reason, tbh.

It's a suit of armour Superman wore to fight Mandrakk. Just like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne or Hal Jordan or Rhodey wears a suit of armour/piece of equipment to do battle. I'm not seeing the issue here.

Basically.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Really feels like people are just splitting hairs for no real reason, tbh.

It's a suit of armour Superman wore to fight Mandrakk. Just like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne or Hal Jordan or Rhodey wears a suit of armour/piece of equipment to do battle. I'm not seeing the issue here.

Except he wasn't in it though

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except he wasn't in it though

Like I said: Splitting hairs.

The result of combining Superman/Ultraman is controlled by Superman, being the dominant personality. He's in the driving seat.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Neither isGuy Gardner his ring, or Quasar his Negabands, it Tony his armour.

So in future threads, if people ask for most powerful versions of Tony, they'd better not name armours lmao, unless it's like Extremis or something.

And if I ask for most powerful versions of Thor, it better not be Thor with any equipment lol. I think this is a stretch, because ideally a better question would be which is the most powerful armour for Tony or Superman in Kryptonian battle armour vs Lobo etc. The version of armour is Iron Man, not usually Tony, hence others have been Iron Man, bar mind control, alternate realities and body Swap Kal El is Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Like I said: Splitting hairs.

The result of combining Superman/Ultraman is controlled by Superman, being the dominant personality. He's in the driving seat. but Firestorm was both Ronnie Raymond and Stein, they were the Matrix.

Ultraman being also a version of Superman. Lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Like I said: Splitting hairs.

The result of combining Superman/Ultraman is controlled by Superman, being the dominant personality. He's in the driving seat.

and still not actually there. TR was built before he was born
All the TR is is a piece of equipment powered by Superman's (along with others) essence. It literally existed before he was born

Your avatar is awful^

Originally posted by Putinbot1
but Firestorm was both Ronnie Raymond and Stein, they were the Matrix.

And we both consider them to be Firestorm, don't we? And even then, one drives the body, while another acts as a kind of advisor or companion.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
and still not actually there. TR was built before he was born
All the TR is is a piece of equipment powered by Superman's (along with others) essence. It literally existed before he was born

I'm really not sure what kind of distinction you're trying to make. Superman was in control, just like Hal controls his own ring, or Batman controls his batgadgets.

Originally posted by -Pr-
And we both consider them to be Firestorm, don't we? And even then, one drives the body, while another acts as a kind of advisor or companion.



I'm really not sure what kind of distinction you're trying to make. Superman was in control, just like Hal controls his own ring, or Batman controls his batgadgets.

So Destroyer is part of Composite Odin? Placing him at Celestial level when maxed out? If so then I can accept TR as some wierd version of composite Supes.

Composite Rogue is a problem too then.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So Destroyer is part of Composite Odin? Placing him at Celestial level when maxed out? If so then I can accept TR as some wierd version of composite Supes.

Composite Rogue is a problem too then.

I don't read Thor comics, so I honestly don't know.

What do you mean by Composite Rogue? Rogue using all the powers she's absorbed, or something else?

No.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Ultraman being also a version of Superman. Lol. But he isn't really, is he?Originally posted by -Pr-
And we both consider them to be Firestorm, don't we? And even then, one drives the body, while another acts as a kind of advisor or companion.



I'm really not sure what kind of distinction you're trying to make. Superman was in control, just like Hal controls his own ring, or Batman controls his batgadgets. they are both firestorm but is the pink ranger her zord. I think combined words are the nearest analogy to ultra man and superman co-joined in a cosmic mecha.

Ultraman is an alt world Clark and isn't composite with Clark

He is a separate character

Parallel world versions of a character do not go in composite. For instance, AoA (though it's more alternate timeline than parallel reality) AoA Logan isn't part of composite. Neither is gold clawed Logan with the mutton chops.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't read Thor comics, so I honestly don't know.

What do you mean by Composite Rogue? Rogue using all the powers she's absorbed, or something else?

A machine powered by a living being's consciousness or essence. That's what Destroyer is. Just like TR. And yeah, everything Rogue has ever absorbed should be composite right?

Do you even understand Final Crisis? The TR was made to specifically use Superman stories to battle the greatest of evils. Why? Because Superman is the ultimate gold story. Morrison made that clear. Why is this so hard?

Originally posted by SquallX
Do you even understand Final Crisis? The TR was made to specifically use Superman stories to battle the greatest of evils. Why? Because Superman is the ultimate gold story. Morrison made that clear. Why is this so hard?

So if Ultraman is a completely different being and his energy was needed to power the Thought Robot how can that be considered Superman?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Let's say I agree with you; what difference does that actually make?





I'm not sure what you're getting at. Superman and Ultraman are smashed together, and that composite being that has Superman's personality (for the comic at least) pilots the armour.

I don't see what the issue is. Again, I ask, if I agreed with you, what difference would that make? No difference tbh, I'm merely being semantic and pedantic and also pasting relatively benign discussion bait.

Originally posted by JBL
Yes.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So if Ultraman is a completely different being and his energy was needed to power the Thought Robot how can that be considered Superman? Because Ultraman is part of Superman mythology, He is one of superman's symmetries in his stories.
And Valla also explained why she needs superman, Only when Superman stories(Superman essnece) powering TR it could beat mandrakk
"Enough energy in my hands to broadcast HIS PURE ESSENCE to a receiver in a higher dimension, Only SUPERMAN CAN save us"
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
"I found a better Story, one created to be unstoppable, indestructible.......The story of a child rocketed to earth from a doomed planet"
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Because Ultraman is part of Superman mythology, He is one of superman's symmetries in his stories.
And Valla also explained why she needs superman, Only when Superman stories(Superman essnece) powering TR it could beat mandrakk
"Enough energy in my hands to broadcast HIS PURE ESSENCE to a receiver in a higher dimension, Only SUPERMAN CAN save us"
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
"I found a better Story, one created to be unstoppable, indestructible.......The story of a child rocketed to earth from a doomed planet"
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG

they symmetry comes from them being the same energy just on opposite ends of the spectrum

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
they symmetry comes from them being the same energy just on opposite ends of the spectrum But is Superman who was in controlling, And it was his essence(stories) powering TR
Like I said before, If you making a thread asking which version Hal is the most powerful, Then i'm sure Hal W Krona power gauntlet will be there, Or Black lantern ring etcetcetc
Those items only used( One particularly be used) by someone has always been considered as a version of the user) Like GLs, Superman with Superman sword etcetcetc

Originally posted by -Pr-
Let's say I agree with you; what difference does that actually make?





I'm not sure what you're getting at. Superman and Ultraman are smashed together, and that composite being that has Superman's personality (for the comic at least) pilots the armour.

I don't see what the issue is. Again, I ask, if I agreed with you, what difference would that make?

So a personality is enough to justify composite status? So every being that's possessed another has that powerset as part of composite? Idk....sounds iffy.

And in this case not even a being....a piece of equipment

Originally posted by Putinbot1
No difference tbh, I'm merely being semantic and pedantic and also pasting relatively benign discussion bait.

Hey, i'll take that over half the "discussions" I see on this forum most days.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So a personality is enough to justify composite status? So every being that's possessed another has that powerset as part of composite? Idk....sounds iffy.

And in this case not even a being....a piece of equipment

I never claimed that it was a composite, did I?

I said it was a suit he controlled/wore to fight Mandrakk. Which it was. I'm not trying to be a dick here; I'm just genuinely unsure of what the issue is.

If you use Superman in a thread, he can't use the Thought Robot. If you use the Thought Robot, it's only ever been seen (that I know of) being controlled by Superman, so that's the version we'd use.

Also, @qwertyuiop1998 Difference being that all those versions are the actual character using some device or amp. This is more like a robot using a sentience. The actual character is literally nowhere to be found

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hey, i'll take that over half the "discussions" I see on this forum most days.



I never claimed that it was a composite, did I?

I said it was a suit he controlled/wore to fight Mandrakk. Which it was. I'm not trying to be a dick here; I'm just genuinely unsure of what the issue is.

If you use Superman in a thread, he can't use the Thought Robot. If you use the Thought Robot, it's only ever been seen (that I know of) being controlled by Superman, so that's the version we'd use.

It's a mech powered by the consciousness of Superman and Ultraman. He pilots it, it isn't him. Or else when it got trashed, Superman woulda been damaged

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It's a mech powered by the consciousness of Superman and Ultraman. He pilots it, it isn't him. Or else when it got trashed, Superman woulda been damaged

Superman felt pain when it was damaged, though. So it's not like he's just logged in from an outside PC.

Well, yeah his consciousness is in it, so he felt something, but ask him... (did you die?)

His not dying, to you, somehow lessens his involvement?

My post is gone

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If Thanos has the IG, apparently he's not a version of Thanos....


Thanos never talked to the gauntlet though.


The monitors made mention of Thought Robots sacrifice. After it blew out its eyes from that final burst of heat vision, the monitors talked as if it critically injured itself and gave up its very existence.


This isn't something you'd say if Superman was in charge, as he sacrificed nothing. Wrecking a mech is not a cause for condolence.

Fine. Let's use Katana and her sword, or indeed any other character using any equipment. BRB talks to Stormbreaker. Kyle talks to his ring. Punisher talks to his guns.

All you and others are doing are splitting hairs. Batman wielding a GL ring is still A version of Batman. Surfer wielding Mjolnir is still A version of Surfer. Superman wielding a giant mech suit made up of the metatextual story of Superman is still A version of Superman. Tony Stark in the Thorbuster is still A version of Tony, or Iron Man or whatever.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fine. Let's use Katana and her sword, or indeed any other character using any equipment. BRB talks to Stormbreaker. Kyle talks to his ring. Punisher talks to his guns.

All you and others are doing are splitting hairs. Batman wielding a GL ring is still A version of Batman. Surfer wielding Mjolnir is still A version of Surfer. Superman wielding a giant mech suit made up of the metatextual story of Superman is still A version of Superman. Tony Stark in the Thorbuster is still A version of Tony, or Iron Man or whatever.


Never said I disagreed TR is a version of Superman.


I made a comment that is somehow lost, about how TR is essentially the living story of Superman. Superman himself was the current mainstream iteration, while Ultraman represents the "non mainstream" variants, such as Injustice Superman.


In that context, it's a Superman. Whether mainstream Superman was actually controlling the thing, or merely animating it the same way Asgardian Destroyer is animated, yet retains its own personality, is the question.

Doesn't Odin control the Destroyer who battles the 4th host?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Doesn't Odin control the Destroyer who battles the 4th host?


Maestro animated Destroyer, but Destroyer clearly was the one driving.

Yeah, but Hulk has a weak spirit. We see it with the destroyer, with Thanos, with TOBA etc.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Yeah, but Hulk has a weak spirit. We see it with the destroyer, with Thanos, with TOBA etc.


Conceded.

Originally posted by cdtm
Maestro animated Destroyer, but Destroyer clearly was the one driving.

I'm pretty sure Maestro is controlling it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hey, i'll take that over half the "discussions" I see on this forum most days.



Who'd of thought you'd be saying that to me fifteen years ago? Our relationship has come a long way!

To clarify...


Superman and Ultraman were dualities: comprised of normal matter/good, and anti-matter/bad.

Thought-Robot could only be activated by the tremendous energies unleashed during collisions of fundamental opposing qualities:
https://i.imgur.com/FsHrHjh.jpg

So Allen merged the essences of Superman and Ultraman(ie. matter and anti-matter), and used the resulting energy to activate Thought-Robot:
https://i.imgur.com/5LRkLT9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L3YM0c3.jpg

But make no mistake: once activated, Thought-Robot was exclusively channeling the the idea/story/concept of SUPERMAN(ie. the most powerful story in DC.) Hence Allen's final line: "Only Superman can save us now."

The duality being another version of Superman.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The duality being another version of Superman..... Hahaha, but Ultraman really isn't that much like Superman, he's not a Kryptonian for a start.

In comics you don't really need to be the exact same person in order to be an alternate version of them tbf.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
In comics you don't really need to be the exact same person in order to be an alternate version of them tbf. hmmmm... to a point this is true. Kal L, Jane Thor, I see your point however being called Ultraman by default makes you something else, an alternate Clark maybe, a rock snorting opposite with a different name definately. Two opposites and a metatexual mecha, no way!

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
In comics you don't really need to be the exact same person in order to be an alternate version of them tbf.

Yes.

That is why I was like "wtf" when 616 and Ultimate Tony were said to be the exact same person, even though they have different pupils, bodies, origins (Ult's Tony's is all sort of f*cked up) and so on.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
but it needs a duality to start as pointed out many times. Tony and Hal can start their plot devices independently. It required the energy generated by merging the opposing essences/dualities of Superman(normal matter) and Ultraman(anti-matter) to activate/start Thought-Robot, yes.

But once activated, Thought-Robot was exclusively channeling the story/concept/idea of Superman alone(as noted by both Allen and Zillo Valla.) It was also Superman himself speaking through Thought-Robot, and Thought-Robot itself was obviously modeled in Superman's image from the very beginning:
https://i.imgur.com/H8LUjZA.jpg

So if you guys are talking about the ability to simply activate Thought-Robot, then no, Superman cannot do it alone. However, without the 'all-powerful' story of Superman to fuel it once activated, Thought-Robot would have been entirely useless. The hyper-tech was quite literally made for him.

Originally posted by Galan007
It required the energy generated by merging the opposing essences of Superman(normal matter) and Ultraman(anti-matter) to activate/start Thought-Robot, yes.

But once activated, Thought-Robot was exclusively channeling the story/concept/idea of Superman alone(as noted by both Allen and Zillo Valla.) It was also Superman himself speaking through Thought-Robot, and Thought-Robot itself was obviously modeled in Superman's image from the very beginning:
https://i.imgur.com/H8LUjZA.jpg

So if you guys are talking about the ability to simply activate Thought-Robot, then no, Superman cannot do it alone. However, without the 'all-powerful' story of Superman to fuel it once activated, Thought-Robot would have been entirely useless. The hyper-tech was quite literally made for him. I don't disagree on any of that Bardock and it shows Superman could not activate the thought robot without ultraman. It's like saying thor is mjolnir. Thought Robot was a tool in this case for a meta textual narrative. Superman wielding activated thought robot would be a better description.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I don't disagree on any of that Bardock and it shows Superman could not activate the thought robot without ultraman. It's like saying thor is mjolnir. Thought Robot was a tool in this case for a meta textual narrative. Superman wielding activated thought robot would be a better description.

Not the best analogy with post Aaron Thor.


Haven't heard the one about a sentient galaxy sized "Mother storm" in the hammer, that morphed into Jane Foster all on its own?

I envy you if you have not.

Actually, re-reading it, it's obvious Superman is in control. Ultraman is said to be in the background.

Originally posted by cdtm
Actually, re-reading it, it's obvious Superman is in control. Ultraman is said to be in the background.

Yeah, Ultraman is like a backseat driver yelling, but Superman is the one actively in control.

Yeah, Ultraman was already one of Mandrakk's minions at the time:
https://i.imgur.com/pqy1Fkz.jpg

If he were in control of Thought-Robot at all, things would have gone much differently.

I think people also get stuck in the 'robot' part. It's the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form:

https://i.ibb.co/Lh1WpQH/y-ZV3-Yr-c-G31-A-QTo-Nti-SXf-M11-Sqi-F9z-M8-Cv-Xpwe-ql-BGs3tj-Fv-Swd-m2we-S-W2jr-EFZI1x2-M-s1600.jpg

It's why when Superman went up against the hyper-story consumer that is Mandrakk, he realized that his/the Cosmic Armor's purpose is to stop Mandrakk .

https://i.ibb.co/jhPQCVD/Z1-dov-Hnd8a6-Lj-WC-x-JHhpln-MHN3-LLr3sn-V1e-UX9r-MITKffd-LUIjt-Id8-Vgvin19w-Nipf-Oui3-E9-Q-s1600.jpg

That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.

This was...so blatant? Or are we pretending its not just to have some trollish fun -- and, for the umpteenth time, ask ourselves why Alberto still posts?

Some people need to focus less on "robot", and more on "thought".

Superman isn't sitting inside of the cockpit of this thing controlling it like some Power Rangers mecha.

Thought-Robot is metafictional Monitor hyper-tech that is being controlled/powered by the fundamental essence/idea of Superman's story.

lol pr, broly just desperately want my attention. Hes like Philo, talks about me constantly like my ex. It comes with that when you're right majority of the times Im not carver, I don't do back n forth with weirdos i don't know over fiction. I come on here and give my input, IDC about YOU dudes do nor do i want to, let's keep it like that

and yes pr scroll up, Galan mentioned about Superman being in control which I already addressed, it NEEDS both Ultraman and Supes to power it, that's not debatable otherwise Ultraman wouldn't had been needed in the first place.

Ok alberto

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Ok alberto

Why doesn't he just block Broly instead of whining about him?


Like I did.

If you blocked me why do you keep responding to me?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Ok alberto

I think this is one of those threads where some will feel a robot neither made or can be started by Superman will feel the artifact is Superman because it runs off his meta fictional story. Others, not so much.