Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Thor has Mjolnir/Stormbreaker
Diana has her standard gear

Who wins

Normally I'd take Thor over WW especially if this was Thor after his "awakening" in Ragnarok... but he was so inept in Endgame that I'm giving this fight to WW.

Still won't be easy and Thor could still win, but I think he loses more often than not.

Is Bane dead yet?

Also Thor wins.

Thor

Im gonna go against my norm and say WW. All of the Endgame fights were one big letdown for me. Fat Thor was a joke. She edges him out on this one 6/10.

^^^It would be a sexy fat fight either way, though, admit it.

bane must always die..


fat thor after a nice fight

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im gonna go against my norm and say WW. All of the Endgame fights were one big letdown for me. Fat Thor was a joke. She edges him out on this one 6/10.

Yup, my thoughts exactly. He still has more firepower but he just seemed so out of it. So WW for a slight majority.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im gonna go against my norm and say WW. All of the Endgame fights were one big letdown for me. Fat Thor was a joke. She edges him out on this one 6/10.

After IW, Endgame Thor was so disappointing. It legit, pretty much killed the movie for me.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
After IW, Endgame Thor was so disappointing. It legit, pretty much killed the movie for me.

The way both Hulk and Thor were treated in Endgame (as well as the wild inconsistency in power levels) ruined that movie for me.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The way both Hulk and Thor were treated in Endgame (as well as the wild inconsistency in power levels) ruined that movie for me.

Well they couldn't keep Thor and Hulk at full power and still have Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel basically girl power their way to victory and each hand Thanos more of an individual ass whooping than the rest of the Avengers combined now could they?

Originally posted by KingD19
Well they couldn't keep Thor and Hulk at full power and still have Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel basically girl power their way to victory and each hand Thanos more of an individual ass whooping than the rest of the Avengers combined now could they?


Unfortunate, but true. MCU had a great run, but it sounds like all of the future movies are going to be morphing into gender studies lectures.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
After IW, Endgame Thor was so disappointing. It legit, pretty much killed the movie for me. but isn't it like the comics, in Avengers Thor is usually less impressive, the same goes for Supes usually in JLA. The others have to be made relevant when you have people that much above others in their own books.

No, in the comics they are usually written down so that the other team members don't seem irrelevant. they aren't written down so that 1 or 2 others can be shown to make the entire team irrelevant.

Yeah. They nerfed Hulk from the first Avengers movie, and Thor was schooled plenty of times. In the comics they would still be Hulk and Thor, even if they were slightly toned down so the other Avengers could matter.

In the MCU, Hulk and Thor were made into jokes and got replaced by Witch and Marvel as easily the 2 most powerful heroes in the entire universe, period.

Rant incoming because I don't feel like going to Endgame's page and this is a thread people are looking at:

Endgame's final treatment of Thor and Hulk was a travesty, but it makes sense that Thor hit rock bottom in his arc after failing to kill Thanos:
- Thor in his MCU history was always "well, the chips are down, but I'll comeback and find a way to win" type of character.
- He does this just in the nick of time in IW it seems, but fails to stop Thanos from murdering half the universe by not going for the head.
- This turns him into a drunk slob for Endgame.

Okay, that's great...to start with. A YouTuber whose and channel I forget right now made a great point: Hulk should've fought Thanos in Endgame and Thor should've done the re-snap with the Stark Gauntlet. Thor failed to stop Thanos, he snaps everyone back; Hulk has been getting his rear kicked since Ragnarok, especially by Thanos, so let him be the "final boss" of sorts for Thanos before Tony dies destroying Thanos and his forces.

Instead, Thor's character arc goes nowhere except getting Mjolnir back after he cries to his mother.

Hulk snaps everyone back, but again he didn't have anything to prove there, as he wasn't the one that didn't stop Thanos in the first place.

Us, the audience, and neither Hulk nor Thor get the big cathartic moments of seeing these two original Avengers finish out their MCU careers with defining moments.


Sorry, rant over. I refuse to believe the Russos on the fact that Fat Thor in Endgame is prime Thor, as he wasn't a fraction of his Ragnarok or, especially, Infinity War self. Wonder Woman takes this one.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
but isn't it like the comics, in Avengers Thor is usually less impressive, the same goes for Supes usually in JLA. The others have to be made relevant when you have people that much above others in their own books.

They're toned down, yes, but they're not made to look like complete buffoons. Thor and Hulk are heavily toned down during the Avengers movies, and it's especially apparent with Thor as you can see how much more powerful he usually is during his solo movies.

But that's different from what was done to them in Endgame. They weren't just toned down, they were made to be completely inept.

To put it in wrestling terms, it's the difference between the Undertaker putting over Roman Reigns in a close match(comics) and getting completly owned by the Brooklyn Brawler(MCU)

Putting this here cause H1 was trying to shit up the other thread...


Originally posted by h1a8
Only an idiot would think WW can't compete with Thor. She has stellar defenses, speed, and one shot weapons.

Alright lets see...What enemies has WW actually fought.

- Ludendorff : After Ludendorff inhales the gas he becomes like Cap tier and gives WW a decent fight for a while. WW wins this fight but she shouldn't have struggled this much if she as powerful of a fighter you seem to think she is.

- Steppenwolf : Stepp defeated WW and WW was helpless against Stepp to the point to having to revive Superman because non the JL could do anything. WW also couldn't cut Stepp with her sword or speed blitzed him or whatever else people claim WW does in every fight. WW was HELPLESS against Stepp. But she should be a threat to tougher opponents than Stepp right?

- Ares - WW defeated Ares because she was his Kryptonite. Ares was defeated by a plot device. WW was the plot device.

- Doomsday - WW was on the defensive the whole fight vs. DD (and it was a 3 on 1). Every blow was blocked by WW's shield. She wasn't directly hit. Last blow was blocked by her sword or bracers (forget). Only feat from that fight was WW cutting DD hand off. Which was most likely PIS and a low feat for DD rather a high feat for WW.

The other enemies she has fought have been regular humans, that the fights and feats dont really matter for this fight.


These are some of the enemies that Thor has fought.

- The Destroyer - Thor won.

- Frost Giants who are comparable and can be argued to be above regular Asgardians in stats. Thor beats them with no problem. And many at the same time.

- Hulk - Every time Thor has fought Hulk it has been a stalemate or Thor has got the upper hand until something stops the fight.

- Thanos - When Thor gets Stormbreaker , he nearly defeats Thanos with the full IG.


There isnt really a contest here. Yes this is fat Thor but he is still Thor and he also has both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Both those weapons are >>>>>>> anything that WW has on her by a lot.
The opponents she has fought are also weaker than what Thor has faced. And even then she has had a hard time getting a win, if not just losing outright.
Thor is stronger, more durable, has better fire power and weapons, than WW and better than some of the enemies she has outright lost to, like Stepp.

Everything I have said in this post can be backed up by screen feats. Dont reply to me with retarded nonsense that is all your head-canon and assumptions without screen feats to back up your opinions.
I dont want to go back and forth for 50 pages straight when you are are just trolling and repeating dumb shit without proof.

The argument is that fat thor fights well below his usual weight class being severely out of shape and with a poor mindset. Some would argue thor from the first thor movie would destroy fat thor easily

Originally posted by Inhuman
Putting this here cause H1 was trying to shit up the other thread...




Alright lets see...What enemies has WW actually fought.

- Ludendorff : After Ludendorff inhales the gas he becomes like Cap tier and gives WW a decent fight for a while. WW wins this fight but she shouldn't have struggled this much if she as powerful of a fighter you seem to think she is.

- Steppenwolf : Stepp defeated WW and WW was helpless against Stepp to the point to having to revive Superman because non the JL could do anything. WW also couldn't cut Stepp with her sword or speed blitzed him or whatever else people claim WW does in every fight. WW was HELPLESS against Stepp. But she should be a threat to tougher opponents than Stepp right?

- Ares - WW defeated Ares because she was his Kryptonite. Ares was defeated by a plot device. WW was the plot device.

- Doomsday - WW was on the defensive the whole fight vs. DD (and it was a 3 on 1). Every blow was blocked by WW's shield. She wasn't directly hit. Last blow was blocked by her sword or bracers (forget). Only feat from that fight was WW cutting DD hand off. Which was most likely PIS and a low feat for DD rather a high feat for WW.

The other enemies she has fought have been regular humans, that the fights and feats dont really matter for this fight.


These are some of the enemies that Thor has fought.

- The Destroyer - Thor won.

- Frost Giants who are comparable and can be argued to be above regular Asgardians in stats. Thor beats them with no problem. And many at the same time.

- Hulk - Every time Thor has fought Hulk it has been a stalemate or Thor has got the upper hand until something stops the fight.

- Thanos - When Thor gets Stormbreaker , he nearly defeats Thanos with the full IG.


There isnt really a contest here. Yes this is fat Thor but he is still Thor and he also has both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Both those weapons are >>>>>>> anything that WW has on her by a lot.
The opponents she has fought are also weaker than what Thor has faced. And even then she has had a hard time getting a win, if not just losing outright.
Thor is stronger, more durable, has better fire power and weapons, than WW and better than some of the enemies she has outright lost to, like Stepp.

Everything I have said in this post can be backed up by screen feats. Dont reply to me with retarded nonsense that is all your head-canon and assumptions without screen feats to back up your opinions.
I dont have time to go back and forth for 50 pages straight when you are are just trolling and repeating dumb shit without proof.

Just want to add a few things:

1. WW was actually armed at the start of her fight against Luddendorf while Luddendorf was unarmed. She still struggled.

2. WW couldn't defeat Steppenwolf even with the help of Aquaman.

3. If we're talking about one-shot abilities, Thor actually has better one-shot feats than WW which includes one-shotting a Kroenan, a couple of leviathans, a giant frost-ice monster, as well as multiple frost giants and Surtur's goons. WW has only ever one-shot humans and parademons.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
The argument is that fat thor fights well below his usual weight class being severely out of shape and with a poor mindset. Some would argue thor from the first thor movie would destroy fat thor easily

I know that. But a 70% Thor with both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir is still above WW. Specially how she has performed against enemies that are not just regular humans.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to add a few things:

1. WW was actually armed at the start of her fight against Luddendorf while Luddendorf was unarmed. She still struggled.

2. WW couldn't defeat Steppenwolf even with the help of Aquaman.

3. If we're talking about one-shot abilities, Thor actually has better one-shot feats than WW which includes one-shotting a Kroenan, a couple of leviathans, a giant frost-ice monster, as well as multiple frost giants and Surtur's goons. WW has only ever one-shot humans and parademons.

I think the fact that aquaman and WW not being able to take out steppenwolf says more about step than WW. Aquaman could propel a submarine out of the ocean and casually took a few blasts that blew up islands

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah. They nerfed Hulk from the first Avengers movie, and Thor was schooled plenty of times. In the comics they would still be Hulk and Thor, even if they were slightly toned down so the other Avengers could matter.

In the MCU, Hulk and Thor were made into jokes and got replaced by Witch and Marvel as easily the 2 most powerful heroes in the entire universe, period. Read Graviton or Nefaria's first appearance. Wanda and vision do far better than Thor. Tbh Iron man and Wonderman do pretty well too. Wanda is often written as the glass cannon who can stop people others can't and has been for 40+ years. It's comics or films.

Shaggy Man should never beat on Supes as he does etc.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I think the fact that aquaman and WW not being able to take out steppenwolf says more about step than WW. Aquaman could propel a submarine out of the ocean and casually took a few blasts that blew up islands

When did Aquaman ever casually take on blasts powerful enough to blow up islands?

When black manta first got the canon, they demonstrated it by blowing up a small island. Manta then shot aquaman with it a few times in their fight

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
When black manta first got the canon, they demonstrated it by blowing up a small island. Manta then shot aquaman with it a few times in their fight

Are you able to provide a clip? I don't recall Manta ever blasting Aquaman with an actual canon which he was able to just easily shrug off.

The eye laser things?

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
The eye laser things?

The ones he modified? Yeah. Aquaman couldn't tank those. Those shots clearly hurt him. He certainly wasn't just shrugging them off. It also didn't blow up an island and it wasn't a canon.

@ blowing up an island.

It was the top of a rock formation sticking out of the water in the near distance.

8vIRIk8_AJE

Originally posted by Inhuman
@ blowing up an island.

It was the top of a rock formation sticking out of the water in the near distance.

8vIRIk8_AJE

Not to mention at the end of your clip, those eyes lasers only melted a small hole in the ceiling.

Also Aquaman is messed up every time he gets hit by that laser. Like visualy messed up. Burn marks, bleeding, on the ground for a while in pain, etc.
Aquaman also gets cut up by Black Mantas sword pretty bad.

Black Mantas laser doesnt seem as strong as Thor's lightning's high end feats.

dBi3y4w3oAY


Aquaman loses to Cap (Thor jr.). Like in a stomp fashion like he did to Stepp.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Also Aquaman is messed up every time he gets hit by that laser. Like visualy messed up. Burn marks, bleeding, on the ground for a while in pain, etc.
Aquaman also gets cut up by Black Mantas sword pretty bad.

Black Mantas laser doesnt seem as strong as Thor's lightning's high end feats.

dBi3y4w3oAY


Aquaman loses to Cap (Thor jr.). Like in a stomp fashion like he did to Stepp.

If Cap uses his lightning well, yes. If it devolves into a melee fight then I'm siding with Aquaman.

Cap used the lightning far less than he just used Mjolnir as a hammer.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If Cap uses his lightning well, yes. If it devolves into a melee fight then I'm siding with Aquaman.

If Cap retains his durability, then Aquaman has a shot if he gets in close.
The problem here is that Cap does have lightning at his disposal and knows how to use it, as shown on screen.
The second and probably bigger issue is Mjolnir. Cap seems to be able to swing it around like its weightless and it hits HARD. Also the fact that Cap is a better fighter than Aquaman. I dont think Aquaman can survive a hit from Mjolnir, let alone multiple hammer strikes and lightning mixed in.
I dont think Stepp hit harder than a hammer strike and he had Aquaman beat. Black manta also had Aquaman on the run, and Black Manta is a shittier version of Ironman.

I'm sorry, but thor's "mother of all lightning bolts" only took out a wall. Cap has nothing on that level

Also at 1:19 from the Black Manta fight vid, Black Manta (a regular human with regular human strength) headbutts Aquaman and leaves him on the floor in pain.
Besides getting cut up from BM's sword and messed up from his laser as well.
Dont know where AM is super durable is coming from. Caps hits would mess up Aquaman.

A "regular human" in upgraded atlantean berserker armor.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
A "regular human" in upgraded atlantean berserker armor.

Sure. The suit maybe enhances BM. What strength feats can you provide that show how much the suit enhanced Black Manta?
Edit: I see that it does enhance Black Manta. Still I dont think Aqumans durability is strong enough to take Caps hammer hits or lightning.

Considering superman through him several city blocks and he got slapped around by the kraken through several stone pillars, I think it's safe to say black manta's suit had enhanced strength

Iron man got hit by the hammer in endgame and the first avengers, and he was fine. Are you going to argue that iron man is tankier than aquaman?

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Are you going to argue that iron man is tankier than aquaman?

Yes. Much tankier.

Well ok then. Just going to ignore bucky and cap wrecking his suit?

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Well ok then. Just going to ignore bucky and cap wrecking his suit?

Bucky has a cybernetic arm and Cap was hitting Ironman with the edge of his shield. And that wasnt the same suit he has tanked way stronger things.

Anyhow I can list many examples of Ironman suit durability that shit on Aquaman.
Just from the clips I posted you see Aquaman being cut up by knives, on the floor in pain by physical blows that were not stronger than what Cap or Bucky can dish out.
And burned and bleeding from laser blasts.

WW

Cap crushed Tony's boot jet with one hand

Again, an atlantean knive used by a guy in an atlantean battle suit

Originally posted by Inhuman
Putting this here cause H1 was trying to shit up the other thread...




Alright lets see...What enemies has WW actually fought.

- Ludendorff : After Ludendorff inhales the gas he becomes like Cap tier and gives WW a decent fight for a while. WW wins this fight but she shouldn't have struggled this much if she as powerful of a fighter you seem to think she is.

- Steppenwolf : Stepp defeated WW and WW was helpless against Stepp to the point to having to revive Superman because non the JL could do anything. WW also couldn't cut Stepp with her sword or speed blitzed him or whatever else people claim WW does in every fight. WW was HELPLESS against Stepp. But she should be a threat to tougher opponents than Stepp right?

- Ares - WW defeated Ares because she was his Kryptonite. Ares was defeated by a plot device. WW was the plot device.

- Doomsday - WW was on the defensive the whole fight vs. DD (and it was a 3 on 1). Every blow was blocked by WW's shield. She wasn't directly hit. Last blow was blocked by her sword or bracers (forget). Only feat from that fight was WW cutting DD hand off. Which was most likely PIS and a low feat for DD rather a high feat for WW.

The other enemies she has fought have been regular humans, that the fights and feats dont really matter for this fight.


These are some of the enemies that Thor has fought.

- The Destroyer - Thor won.

- Frost Giants who are comparable and can be argued to be above regular Asgardians in stats. Thor beats them with no problem. And many at the same time.

- Hulk - Every time Thor has fought Hulk it has been a stalemate or Thor has got the upper hand until something stops the fight.

- Thanos - When Thor gets Stormbreaker , he nearly defeats Thanos with the full IG.


There isnt really a contest here. Yes this is fat Thor but he is still Thor and he also has both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Both those weapons are >>>>>>> anything that WW has on her by a lot.
The opponents she has fought are also weaker than what Thor has faced. And even then she has had a hard time getting a win, if not just losing outright.
Thor is stronger, more durable, has better fire power and weapons, than WW and better than some of the enemies she has outright lost to, like Stepp.

Everything I have said in this post can be backed up by screen feats. Dont reply to me with retarded nonsense that is all your head-canon and assumptions without screen feats to back up your opinions.
I dont want to go back and forth for 50 pages straight when you are are just trolling and repeating dumb shit without proof.

It's not about who beat who. You just named PIS events. The point is WW would view these guys as statues and kill them with the sword in one shot.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not about who beat who. You just named PIS events. The point is WW would view these guys as statues and kill them with the sword in one shot.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Everything I have said in this post can be backed up by screen feats. Dont reply to me with retarded nonsense that is all your head-canon and assumptions without screen feats to back up your opinions.
I dont want to go back and forth for 50 pages straight when you are are just trolling and repeating dumb shit without proof.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not about who beat who. You just named PIS events. The point is WW would view these guys as statues and kill them with the sword in one shot.

As long as you can back your claim up with a clip of WW doing that then great.

Yeah, Iron Man would fry Aquaman and there's nothing he could do about it.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not about who beat who. You just named PIS events. The point is WW would view these guys as statues and kill them with the sword in one shot.

Go ahead and post examples of her actually doing this.

Originally posted by Inhuman
everything I said can be backed up with onscreen feats. Don't go mentioning PIS events and think a character will fight at their worst while your character fight at their best.

Originally posted by FrothByte
As long as you can back your claim up with a clip of WW doing that then great. WW sees bullet in super slow motion => she will see these characters as statues.

Originally posted by h1a8
everything I said can be backed up with onscreen feats. Don't go mentioning PIS events and think a character will fight at their worst while your character fight at their best.

Then please, go ahead and post a feat of WW making a skilled opponent look like a statue while she one-shot them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then please, go ahead and post a feat of WW making a skilled opponent look like a statue while she one-shot them.
Originally posted by h1a8
everything I said can be backed up with onscreen feats.

Ill wait...

https://i.imgur.com/oK8EcTs.jpg

Originally posted by FrothByte
Then please, go ahead and post a feat of WW making a skilled opponent look like a statue while she one-shot them.

No. I explained her seeing bullets in slow motion and moving as fast to block bullets from close range. That's enough.

Originally posted by h1a8
No. I explained her seeing bullets in slow motion and moving as fast to block bullets from close range. That's enough.

Only an idiot would think being able to block fast equates to being able to attack fast.

So, are you an idiot or will you provide a feat of her actually striking with her sword at superspeed against a skilled opponent?

Originally posted by h1a8
No. I explained her seeing bullets in slow motion and moving as fast to block bullets from close range. That's enough.

No it's not, as we argue in-character and not power-sets.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No it's not, as we argue in-character and not power-sets.

If you view bullets in slow motion then you automatically view others as statues. Character has nothing to do with it.

You think a character would be moving as she is seeing a bullet move in slow motion?

Also, you are confusing in character with PIS.
A character will only limit themselves because they are that stupid. If they are not that stupid then we have PIS.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Only an idiot would think being able to block fast equates to being able to attack fast.

So, are you an idiot or will you provide a feat of her actually striking with her sword at superspeed against a skilled opponent?
You are forgetting perception speed.

Only an idiot wouldn't think that being able to block fast does not equate to attacking fast.
Its called arm movement.

Also speed to attack is always greater than speed to defend.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are forgetting perception speed.

Only an idiot wouldn't think that being able to block fast does not equate to attacking fast.
Its called arm movement.

Also speed to attack is always greater than speed to defend.

LoL. And again you display how utterly ignorant you are at fighting. Attack speed is always greater than speed to defend?

What bullshit. You do realize that in order to attack someone you need to actually cover a greater amount of distance and make a bigger movement than you'd need to defend yourself right?

But then, what was I expecting from a guy who thinks all you need to attack is arm movement?

In any case, unless you actually have a feat where WW speedblitzes a skilled opponent and one-shot kills them then you're just making stuff up.

So I ask again: are you an idiot or will you actually provide a feat to back your claim?

Originally posted by FrothByte
LoL. And again you display how utterly ignorant you are at fighting. Attack speed is always greater than speed to defend?

1. What bullshit. You do realize that in order to attack someone you need to actually cover a greater amount of distance and make a bigger movement than you'd need to defend yourself right?

2. But then, what was I expecting from a guy who thinks all you need to attack is arm movement?

In any case, unless you actually have a feat where WW speedblitzes a skilled opponent and one-shot kills them then you're just making stuff up.

So I ask again: are you an idiot or will you actually provide a feat to back your claim?

1. Exactly! You just proved my point. To attack you must cover a larger distance than to defend. Therefore attack speed is greater. For example, a punch can be thrown at 40mph but a block at 15-20mph in order to defend.
But on a common sense level, swinging a sword would produce more velocity than getting your hand up to block.

2. When two characters are in striking distance then yes, all you need is arm movement.

Done w. this thread. Seen it too many times already.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Exactly! You just proved my point. To attack you must cover a larger distance than to defend. Therefore attack speed is greater. For example, a punch can be thrown at 40mph but a block at 15-20mph in order to defend.
But on a common sense level, swinging a sword would produce more velocity than getting your hand up to block.

2. When two characters are in striking distance then yes, all you need is arm movement.

1. Thank you for admitting that you can't use a defense speed feat as an attack speed feat because they're different.

2. If you truly think arm speed is the only thing you need for a fast attack (regardless if you're in striking distance) then you truly know nothing about fighting.

Anyway, I'm done debating with you since you're clearly trolling. Let me know once you're ready to back your arguments up with actual feats like the rest of the posters here do.

P.S. - since you didn't provide proof, I take that as your concession that you are an idiot.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Thank you for admitting that you can't use a defense speed feat as an attack speed feat because they're different.

2. If you truly think arm speed is the only thing you need for a fast attack (regardless if you're in striking distance) then you truly know nothing about fighting.

Anyway, I'm done debating with you since you're clearly trolling. Let me know once you're ready to back your arguments up with actual feats like the rest of the posters here do.

P.S. - since you didn't provide proof, I take that as your concession that you are an idiot.

1. You and I both proved that defense speed is slower (velocity wise) than attack speed. Therefore WW attacks faster than she can defend.
At this point you are trolling. This isn't a court of Law. We use common sense here. Clearly you can swing your arm with faster velocity in an attack than trying to block. That's the end of that debate. You can continue the stupidness if you want, I won't engage it.

2. It all scales idiot. I can't believe you are trolling and arguing that WW has no ability to attack with superspeed. This debate is also finished.