Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Both at full power

Franklin.

Ion, Kyle was in the same level of Zero Hour Hal

they are light years ahead of Franklin

ZH Parallax had also absorbed residual energy from the events of COIE, so he was > classic Ion.

As for this thread, I'm undecided.

Franklin wins.

Originally posted by Galan007
ZH Parallax had also absorbed residual energy from the events of COIE, so he was > classic Ion.

As for this thread, I'm undecided.

true, but Ion 1 was godlike though, he certainly scales to zh parallax even if he's not equal. and parallax was capable of bring back the pre-crisis multiverse.

adult franklin had trouble with mad celestials, and none of those celestials are multiversal in power

kyle was capable of rewritting zero hour, he can time travel and manipulate time at will. those statements alone put him far above any universal powerhouses
https://imgur.com/a/C8ev5RY

he's also omnipresent
https://imgur.com/a/5WAjyRh
https://imgur.com/a/Cv4RuJp

Probably Ion, but its close.

Originally posted by Galan007
ZH Parallax had also absorbed residual energy from the events of COIE, so he was > classic Ion.

As for this thread, I'm undecided.

Didn't that power include those residual energies

Regardless, Oblivion seemed an entity unto himself, and threatened the universe. Ion also absorbed Oblivion.

Originally posted by MrMind
Ion, Kyle was in the same level of Zero Hour Hal

they are light years ahead of Franklin


We have confirmation from Spectre that Kyle could have manipulated time and space in any way he wanted, without any paradox's.


The confirmation being that he told Kyle he should not do that.


As opposed to can not.


This was a deliberate plot point, as Kyle noted Hal was incapable of lying as the spirit of vengeance.

Originally posted by MrMind
true, but Ion 1 was godlike though, he certainly scales to zh parallax even if he's not equal. and parallax was capable of bring back the pre-crisis multiverse.

adult franklin had trouble with mad celestials, and none of those celestials are multiversal in power

kyle was capable of rewritting zero hour, he can time travel and manipulate time at will. those statements alone put him far above any universal powerhouses
https://imgur.com/a/C8ev5RY

he's also omnipresent
https://imgur.com/a/5WAjyRh
https://imgur.com/a/Cv4RuJp Classic Ion doesn't scale to the same level as Parallax, though.

Despite never actually operating on such a scale, Ion's chat with Spectre definitely indicated that he could operate on a fully universal level... But then, so could Franklin. That's why I'm undecided.

Could Ion scale from the recent GL issues written by Morrison? A portion of CB powers is enough to let Hal stop a universal bomb, And Ion's powers are basically the CB powers

Wasn't Ion even more powerful than Parallax? It's been ages since I've read that story.

parallax has more feats but original ion was more powerful based on implied power.

Original Ion is confirmed to be multiversal.
Does Adult Franklin have some multiversal feat or setting?

Originally posted by CatL18
Original Ion is confirmed to be multiversal.
Does Adult Franklin have some multiversal feat or setting?

Confirmed how?

Original ION.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Confirmed how?
https://imgur.com/a/C8ev5RY
He has has near total control over time and change reality if he wants with changing time stream.

Hyperbole

Originally posted by carver9
Hyperbole What part?

Originally posted by CatL18
https://imgur.com/a/C8ev5RY
He has has near total control over time and change reality if he wants with changing time stream.

All that appears to show is that he can alter past events. He uses saving Coast City as an example (which could have prevented Hal from becoming Parallax). That's not "multiversal" IMO.

Now Franklin on the other hand...

https://imgur.com/a/ejeHQvz

Originally posted by Galan007
Classic Ion doesn't scale to the same level as Parallax, though.

Despite never actually operating on such a scale, Ion's chat with Spectre definitely indicated that he could operate on a fully universal level... But then, so could Franklin. That's why I'm undecided.

when kyle said he can "hold all the threads of time"
or when spectre said kyle can "undo all the wrongs that have ever been"

the implication I get from that is Kyle is beyond universal at that point

but then again, Ion 1 simply doesn't have enough showing to truly determine his full power. so it can't be proved either way

Originally posted by Manofmiracles
parallax has more feats but original ion was more powerful based on implied power. Definitely not true. ZH Parallax had the same power as Ion + additional energy he absorbed from COIE.

Originally posted by CatL18
Original Ion is confirmed to be multiversal.
Does Adult Franklin have some multiversal feat or setting? Nothing puts him at multiversal. Fully universal, sure, but not multiversal.

Originally posted by MrMind
when kyle said he can "hold all the threads of time"
or when spectre said kyle can "undo all the wrongs that have ever been"

the implication I get from that is Kyle is beyond universal at that point

but then again, Ion 1 simply doesn't have enough showing to truly determine his full power. so it can't be proved either way The implication of the dialogue with Spectre is that he has total control over the entire timeline, to the point that he'd be able to control changing individual events without making a cluster****.

https://imgur.com/a/FOfuiqM
"For me, now .. it's not a fabric that would unravel if I pull on a string. I can hold all the threads now, Hal. I can change what's happened without changing what will be"

Originally posted by Galan007
Definitely not true. ZH Parallax had the same power as Ion + additional energy he absorbed from COIE.

Nothing puts him at multiversal. Fully universal, sure, but not multiversal.


If we scaled Hal beating Spectre?


Isn't Spectre multiversal?

Originally posted by cdtm
If we scaled Hal beating Spectre?


Isn't Spectre multiversal? So is Zero-Hour Parallax, He erased entire timestream/infinite timelines and capable of restoring most of pre-crisis universes

Franklin wins.

Originally posted by cdtm
If we scaled Hal beating Spectre?


Isn't Spectre multiversal?

The Spectre has variable levels.

Wasn't kid Franklin playing with the multiversal structure at secret wars?