Did Anakin actually fulfill the prophesy?

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Eli Vanto
Given the events of the ST, did Anakin ever really fulfill the prophesy of the Chosen One and bring balance to the force?

YousufKhan1212
He did, but apparently only temporarily, because he says "Bring back the balance , Rey, as I did" but let's not forget that he was one of the spirits of all those Jedi who empowered Rey to kill Palpatine.

Total Warrior
He id, in 4 ABY. But what about the events of RoS? As Yousuf said, we could think he still played a part in it by empowering Rey

Galan007
Yes, he temporarily fulfilled the prophesy. It was never specified how long the "balance" would last, afaik.

On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance. Especially when the Mortis trilogy outright confirms that the light cannot exist without the dark, and vice versa. BOTH aspects are necessary in order to have true balance.

Father: "Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
Son: "How simple you make it. Light and dark... As if there is one without the other."

YousufKhan1212
I don't think Rey should've been the one to end Palpatine once and for all, she's not a Skywalker and not nearly as interesting as Ben, who I think should've been the one to end Palpatine once and for all because of his Skywalker blood and he's a fairly interesting character, and it would be poetic with what he said about finishing what Vader started i.e. ending Palpatine's life and destroying the Sith.

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, he temporarily fulfilled the prophesy. It was never specified how long the "balance" would last, afaik.

On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance. Especially when the Mortis trilogy outright confirms that the light cannot exist without the dark, and vice versa. BOTH aspects are necessary in order to have true balance.

Father: "Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
Son: "How simple you make it. Light and dark... As if there is one without the other." I think they just mean that good should prevail over evil to bring the balance back.

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
I don't think Rey should've been the one to end Palpatine once and for all, she's not a Skywalker and not nearly as interesting as Ben, who I think should've been the one to end Palpatine once and for all because of his Skywalker blood and he's a fairly interesting character, and it would be poetic with what he said about finishing what Vader started i.e. ending Palpatine's life and destroying the Sith. The way I look at it, the two Palpatines (Rey and Sidious) cancelled each other out and were both killed. It still took the Skywalker (Ben) to bring her back.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, he temporarily fulfilled the prophesy. It was never specified how long the "balance" would last, afaik.

On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance. Especially when the Mortis trilogy outright confirms that the light cannot exist without the dark, and vice versa. BOTH aspects are necessary in order to have true balance.

Father: "Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
Son: "How simple you make it. Light and dark... As if there is one without the other."
In Lucas' defense, maybe destroying the sith doesn't bring balance to the Force?

Maybe, just maybe, the story is that you need to balance your selflessness with your passion, and the Jedi didn't understand that (thus their misinterpretation of the prophecy) and failed, but then Luke properly balanced love and pragmatism against Yoda's altruistic teachings, and that's how he brought balance? And you could spin in some BS about Palpatine being the symbol of imbalance and Vader being the true bringer, etc.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
I think they just mean that good should prevail over evil to bring the balance back. Originally posted by Eli Vanto
The way I look at it, the two Palpatines (Rey and Sidious) cancelled each other out and were both killed. It still took the Skywalker (Ben) to bring her back.
I really like that!

ares834
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Given the events of the ST, did Anakin ever really fulfill the prophesy of the Chosen One and bring balance to the force?

Apparently not. The ST invalidated this, just like it did everything else in the OT.

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, he temporarily fulfilled the prophesy. It was never specified how long the "balance" would last, afaik.

On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance. Especially when the Mortis trilogy outright confirms that the light cannot exist without the dark, and vice versa. BOTH aspects are necessary in order to have true balance.

Father: "Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
Son: "How simple you make it. Light and dark... As if there is one without the other."

Simple. Jedi, at least as Lucas envisions it, don't use the light side but find balance. Notice how the Jedi never mention the "light side" in the Lucas movies. They are more like the Father than the Daughter or at least they should be; the Prequel era Jedi were horribly flawed and were likely straying in this regard.

Total Warrior
Yeah, maybe even the destruction of the jedi order was needed to bring balance, since, as you said, they had grown arrogant and were not true to thir original principles anymore

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
Simple. Jedi, at least as Lucas envisions it, don't use the light side but find balance. Notice how the Jedi never mention the "light side" in the Lucas movies. They are more like the Father than the Daughter or at least they should be; the Prequel era Jedi were horribly flawed and were likely straying in this regard. But Lucas was also the guiding hand in the Mortis trilogy, which explicitly divides the Force into light and dark aspects, and states that even too much light can cause a horrible imbalance. confused

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Yeah, maybe even the destruction of the jedi order was needed to bring balance, since, as you said, they had grown arrogant and were not true to thir original principles anymore thumb up

The Jedi Order had become fully subservient to the political and bureaucratic nature of the Republic/Senate by the time of the PT, and had lost their way in that respect. Barriss was right.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Galan007
On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance.

The Jedi were destroyed too, y'know?

Galan007
When?

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
But Lucas was also the guiding hand in the Mortis trilogy, which explicitly divides the Force into light and dark aspects, and states that even too much light can cause a horrible imbalance. confused

I'm not saying the light side does not exist but rather (perhaps it was Lucas's intention) that the Jedi are not light siders, instead they are "balanced" like the Father.

relentless1
Originally posted by ares834
I'm not saying the light side does not exist but rather (perhaps it was Lucas's intention) that the Jedi are not light siders, instead they are "balanced" like the Father.

the Jedi aren't the balance though, they were too rigidly right wing for a lack of a better term lol, my theory, before the ST anyways was that Luke himself was the balance; he was compassionate and caring but not possessive or overly emotional for the most part

ares834
True. Which is why I said earlier:

Originally posted by ares834
They are more like the Father than the Daughter or at least they should be; the Prequel era Jedi were horribly flawed and were likely straying in this regard.

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
I'm not saying the light side does not exist but rather (perhaps it was Lucas's intention) that the Jedi are not light siders, instead they are "balanced" like the Father. Could very well be, but we've just never seen them portrayed like that. The system seems very rigid/black&white -- you either use the light side or the dark side. Not both.

Canon Luke was aware of the importance of opening yourself up to both aspects, but he was still very much part of the "light side".

The only Jedi in canon that I can think of who was truly "balanced" in such a way(aside from the mythical Prime Jedi) was Ezra -- because he was able to use both aspects of the Force, without being 'corrupted' by either facet.

Total Warrior
In Legends the first force users trained on Tython, where there were two moons, one engulfed in the light side, the onter in the darkness. Whenever a force user lent too much towards the dark or the light, they were sent to one of these moons in order to regain their balance. I never understood why even the Jedi were so strict about not reaching a compromise between the two side of the force, like the first Je'dai did. At least in Legends we know it can be done. Not sure about canon

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Total Warrior
In Legends the first force users trained on Tython, where there were two moons, one engulfed in the light side, the onter in the darkness. Whenever a force user lent too much towards the dark or the light, they were sent to one of these moons in order to regain their balance. I never understood why even the Jedi were so strict about not reaching a compromise between the two side of the force, like the first Je'dai did. At least in Legends we know it can be done. Not sure about canon

Well yeah, it worked for only so long before the schism and civil war broke out, because Daegen Lok went bonkers.

Total Warrior
^Yes, but they should have tried it again. It's not like by splitting light and darkness there ar eno conflicts. Even without the SIth, within the jedi order there were people who did not share the council's view and caused trouble (just think about all those dark jedi and barriss offee)

Sheev
Originally posted by Galan007
(aside from the mythical Prime Jedi) The who now? confused

Total Warrior
Originally posted by Sheev
The who now? confused Dinosaurs

Zentrex
Originally posted by Sheev
The who now? confused
This guy:
https://d13ezvd6yrslxm.cloudfront.net/wp/wp-content/images/last-jedi-prime-jedi-ying-yang.jpg
https://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/IMG_2288.jpg

Also, didn't the Jedi fail specifically because they were too "light side"? And then they did try to balance the Light and the Dark in the NJO, when Luke opened up his academy. He stressed love and compassion over altruism, no?

Zentrex
Sorry it's a link; the image formatted too large, and it would have ruined the thread.

Galan007
Originally posted by Sheev
The who now? confused
https://i.imgur.com/lJ5MUwM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/odw8Tcr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RyjBxux.jpg

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, he temporarily fulfilled the prophesy. It was never specified how long the "balance" would last, afaik.

On that note, I never understood how destroying the Sith would balance the Force anyway..? It just tips the scales in favor of the light side -- that's not balance. Especially when the Mortis trilogy outright confirms that the light cannot exist without the dark, and vice versa. BOTH aspects are necessary in order to have true balance.

Father: "Too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as you understand it."
Son: "How simple you make it. Light and dark... As if there is one without the other."

Natural darkness? Yes.
Man made darkness? No.

Rust, pain, anger, rage are natural emotions to most species. And so are serenity, etc

It creates chaos when someone like The Sith use them for their own benefits.

Zentrex
Yeah, I always thought of it as Dark Side being something that pushes against the natural will of the Force. As Obi-Wan described, the Force partially controls your actions, but also obeys your commands. A sith tries to make it a tool obedient to the user's will, which is only possible through the dark side emotions.

Just my thoughts.

I do remember when I was browsing the forums a few months back, I stumbled upon a eally old debate, in which Ushgarak was arguing that destroying the Sith is bringing back the jedi. Now, I remember that even that argument was never comprehensive of every source, but it's the closest thing I've seen on the internet to a complete compilation of all arguments for and against the "destroying the sith = balance in the Force" idea. I was trying to find it, I couldn't. I thought it might have been in the "Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI" forum, too.

The Merchant
What "Balance" means has never been really clear and prone to retcons. In episode 3 Lucas stated in the DVD commentary outright that destroying the Sith leads to balance. He stated in another interview that the Sith and the Dark side were a "cancer" to the Force and there was no "Light side" the way the Jedi used the Force was the Force in it's natural state and it's not supposed to be divided in half.


This was retconned with Mortis and by Lucas himself with the Introruction of the Family on Mortis, where the dark is a natural part of the Force and there is Light and even Balance having representation. Anakin has to balance both sides but we all know what happens after.

There is as of yet afaik nothing that reconciles the Ones with the Siths destruction being what brings balance. My headcanon is whenever the Sith caused the Force to go out of balance, this led to the Fathers death becoming a faster process and the Son becoming stronger. The "cancer" to the Force is the Sith themselves rather than the dark side.


Seems Anakin did bring back balance but as others said only temporarily but this is a plot hole tbh. If Palpatine never died or anything, how was the Force brought back into balance? Makes no sense, I think if they were going to bring back Palpatine they should have taken a page from Freedon Nadd and Ommins relationship. Snoke, in this case Ommin, brings back Palpatines spirit which caused the Force to go out of balance.

Zentrex
Originally posted by The Merchant
Seems Anakin did bring back balance but as others said only temporarily but this is a plot hole tbh. If Palpatine never died or anything, how was the Force brought back into balance? Makes no sense, I think if they were going to bring back Palpatine they should have taken a page from Freedon Nadd and Ommins relationship. Snoke, in this case Ommin, brings back Palpatines spirit which caused the Force to go out of balance.

I guess the question now is how long did that balance last? Was it until there was an "awakening"? Even though we still don't know what that even means. Was it until Palpatine started his plans? Was it when the Dyad was created? I doubt Disney'll explore it further, but what do you think?

Galan007
The novelization confirms that Palpatine never really died. He transferred his essence into the clone vessel on Exegol while his original body was still hurling down the Death Star reactor shaft.

You could have still argued that this brought 'balance' in a sense(a 1:1 ratio would still level the scales)... IF Luke and Palpatine would have been the only Jedi and Sith left in the galaxy.

But we know that isn't true either, as there were still Force-users running around in the time between RotJ and TFA. So meh. /shrug

Zentrex
Let's work with them here, though. How could the Force have been brought into balance?

Maybe it has nothing to do with the people that are out there practicing the light and the dark sides? You could argue that when Anakin rid the Galaxy of the influence of the Empire and therefore the Sith, he brought maintainable peace to the Force itself. Then, Palpatine rose to power again, making the Dark Side prominent again.

Galan007
I guess it really just depends how literally you take the statements from the Mortis arc.

Because you could also argue that the eradication of the Empire subsequently tipped the balance heavily toward light side... And per the Father, that could also cause a cataclysmic imbalance.

The Merchant
Balance just doesn't make sense in all honesty lol. I guess you could argue Palpatine leaving the Unknown regions and removing himself from the Galaxy put the Force in balance but that makes no sense at all.

When TFA came out, I imagined that Snokes goal was to disrupt the Balance that Anakin made for his own purposes and the Awakening of Force sensitives across the Galaxy was the Forces respond to him. You could tweak this with Palpatine, the big problem is he never died so yeah.

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