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Fight takes place on Tatooine, right outside the Lars home.

???

Why do you hate Savage?

He didn't. Savage will end that fight in one piece at least. Like Ventress. Make it "bloodlusted" Yoda and it will be funny.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
???

Why do you hate Savage?

Tbf, Savage can take this via a lopsided scaling, given it's TPM Yoda. Savage is more powerful than mid-TCW Ventress, who can immensely press Mace Windu, somebody far more powerful than his TPM iteration who's comparable to Yoda.

Savage gets absolutely slaughtered.

Yoda demolishes barehanded

Originally posted by Darth Thor
???

Why do you hate Savage?

???

It really is no contest. Savage might handle Yoda for 1-2 minutes in sabres but if Yoda did not kill him shortly after with a clean slash he would use his force powers to absolutely ragdoll Savage. Yoda takes this 10/10.

LOL what? Savage'll be lucky if he can handle Yoda for 1-2 seconds in sabers. Yoda absolutely obliterates 10/10 in 5-10 seconds.

Yes, asuming that Savage would least more then 10 seconds against Yoda in sabers is... naive. Even 10 seconds seems to be unlikely if Yoda would decide to beat him. I agree with Mizukage Yoda.

Guys, let's not forget that TPM Yoda hasn't gone through the spiritual growth that an older, more mentally mature and alert Yoda went through between AotC and RotS. I think Yoda more than likely remain stagnant between TPM and AotC, though I can be convinced otherwise. But you can't use RotS Yoda's feats for TPM Yoda because up until TPM, all the Jedi were complacent because they were under the delusion that they were in a time of peace and that the Sith were extinct. Now suddenly the Sith are back, the Clone Wars is a thing, and Yoda has a much more convicting reason than he has ever had in his entire 900 year old ass life to actually be ready for a fight with the Jedi's ancient enemy and to actually focus on his combative prowess.

And? Doesn't matter at all. There were some quotes, at least in Legends, suggesting that Yoda has lost some of his raw power in the Force between TPM and ROTS. Anyway, at the time of AOTC, when in your opinion he was still stagnant, he was capable of overpowering Dooku. Savage would be terribly stomped by any version of Yoda, that was seen in any of the movies. TPM/AOTC/ROTS Yoda would stomp him in any category, TESB Yoda would stomp him with TK, ROTJ Yoda would die, and return as Force ghost and destroy him with his lightning powers, shown in TLJ Geez, what a stupid movie it was. Like all created by Shitsney. With an exeption of R1.

Originally posted by McP
And? Doesn't matter at all. There were some quotes, at least in Legends, suggesting that Yoda has lost some of his raw power in the Force between TPM and ROTS. Anyway, at the time of AOTC, when in your opinion he was still stagnant, he was capable of overpowering Dooku. Savage would be terribly stomped by any version of Yoda, that was seen in any of the movies. TPM/AOTC/ROTS Yoda would stomp him in any category, TESB Yoda would stomp him with TK, ROTJ Yoda would die, and return as Force ghost and destroy him with his lightning powers, shown in TLJ Geez, what a stupid movie it was. Like all created by Shitsney. With an exeption of R1.

Source for statements saying that Yoda lost raw power? AotC Yoda and AotC Dooku were explicitly stated to be equals in AotC DVD commentary, RotS Dooku has been confirmed as more powerful than his AotC self, so if you're subscribing to the view that Yoda didn't grow between TPM and RotS despite his mental/spiritual experiences in TCW, then you'll have to accept that RotS Dooku is more powerful than PT Yoda.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Source for statements saying that Yoda lost raw power? AotC Yoda and AotC Dooku were explicitly stated to be equals in AotC DVD commentary, RotS Dooku has been confirmed as more powerful than his AotC self, so if you're subscribing to the view that Yoda didn't grow between TPM and RotS despite his mental/spiritual experiences in TCW, then you'll have to accept that RotS Dooku is more powerful than PT Yoda.

Originally posted by Lord Stark


I'm not even joking:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzzckJOwSlk

George let the Force clash between Dooku and Yoda run on for as long as it did to give the audience something to marvel over, but he knew Yoda and Count Dooku were equals and they would have figured this out right away, knowing any attack was hopeless. Lucas also says Yoda is "much more powerful" than Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi because he can block lightning with his hands, for what it's worth. These words go nicely with Animation Director Rob Coleman's comment that Lucas wanted "an amazing clash between two ultimate masters of opposite sides of the Force," and Pablo Hidalgo who says "The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched," so there's nothing amusing about it.

And this is only AotC Dooku; RotS Dooku is more powerful than AotC Dooku...





Moral of the story: RotS Dooku > AotC Dooku = AotC Yoda.

Regarding Dooku's growth, there's also this:

https://i.imgur.com/lNdHJPw.jpg
-Fact Files v3 #78.

Yeah, Dooku is Yoda tier. In Legends, anyways.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Dooku's growth, there's also this:

https://i.imgur.com/lNdHJPw.jpg
-Fact Files v3 #78.

Hey Galan, do you have access to the 2014 Fact Files Magazines? I've been trying to get my hands on them but had no luck.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Dooku's growth, there's also this:

https://i.imgur.com/lNdHJPw.jpg
-Fact Files v3 #78.

So, Anakin defeated a Dooku that was stronger than the Dooku, who held his own against Yoda. Interesting.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Hey Galan, do you have access to the 2014 Fact Files Magazines? I've been trying to get my hands on them but had no luck. You talking about this series/volume?
https://i.imgur.com/3tC0CNX.png

And isn't Yoda still more powerful then Dooku in new canon?

^ Canon AotC Yoda is 2x AotC Dooku, per Yoda's bio in Galaxy of Adventures.

Originally posted by Galan007
You talking about this series/volume?
https://i.imgur.com/3tC0CNX.png

Yes.

@Lord Stark: One of those sources contradict George Lucas's statement that they're equals in Force power, Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology saying that Dooku barely escaped with his life isn't a contradiction, Attack of the Clones junior novel is talking about their lightsaber duel, Labyrinth of Evil and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't say that Yoda is Dooku's superior not even implicitly, Star Wars: Beware the Sith is talking about their lightsaber lightsaber, not their respective Force powers, Star Wars: Jedi Battles is talking about their entire duel and not exclusively how their Force powers stack up to each other.

Yoda's fight with Dooku on Vjun takes place 2 years after AotC, so it's not really relevant to their AotC versions. Yoda's statement "Impressive! While size matters not, only five can I lift since I passed 700." only means that a 900+ year old Yoda is less powerful than his 700 year old self, which doesn't rule out the notion that RotS Yoda is more powerful than TPM/AotC Yoda. Moreover, the time and year that Yoda made this statement hasn't been specified, I'd like to know when he made that statement.

In Canon, AotC Yoda is indeed twice as powerful as AotC Dooku. In the old continuity however, they're equals in Force strength.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
@Lord Stark: One of those sources contradict George Lucas's statement that they're equals in Force power, Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology saying that Dooku barely escaped with his life isn't a contradiction, Attack of the Clones junior novel is talking about their lightsaber duel, Labyrinth of Evil and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia doesn't say that Yoda is Dooku's superior not even implicitly, Star Wars: Beware the Sith is talking about their lightsaber lightsaber, not their respective Force powers, Star Wars: Jedi Battles is talking about their entire duel and not exclusively how their Force powers stack up to each other.

Yes, they did. Easily deflecting his Force Lightning implies superiority, esp. when we see how Yoda handles Sidious his actual equal's lightning. The bastion of quotes putting Yoda at or around ROTS Sidious contradicts that, esp. when in both Canon's Sidious is able to force choke Dooku from halfway across the galaxy. Every quote makes it clear.

ROTS Sidious >/= ROTS Yoda>Dooku, there was a time way back in Legends pre-ROTS where it could be argued Dooku was </= Yoda.

But the idea of Dooku being comparable in power to Sidious and Yoda was discarded in favor of those two being far more powerful than him.

The number of hoops you have to jump through to argue that any version of Yoda = Dooku is way more than if you do Yoda>Dooku. And digging up one quote for GL saying he wanted neither to beat the other 'throwing things at each other' isn't gonna change that. Esp. considering Yoda never went on the offensive against Dooku in the force contest. He only parried his attacks and most canon sources say he parried them with ease.




There are zero quotes as far as I am aware in the canon that suggests that Yoda grew substantially in strength between AOTC and ROTS. There is an abundance of quotes talking about Yoda>Dooku however.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Yes. Yeah, I've got the whole series downloaded except one or two issues that were never scanned.

@Lord Stark

I would also disagree that Yoda and Dooku were equals. They clearly were not. But on the other hand, every source that suggest some great disparity between them to is also out of logic. And there is a clear suggestion in AOTC, that it was Yoda's main goal to stop Dooku on Geonosis. Toying with him when there is bilions lifes at stake and a full scale war is out of Yoda's character. He tried, he did everything he could, if they would continue Yoda would win. But he failed.

I would disagree that ROTS Sidious >= Yoda though. Stover's novel was contradict the movie at that point from the very beginning. And ROTS script was always better then any book at that point. Yoda overhelmed Sidious in a duel, he was unable to overhelm him in a Force fight since they were equals. Sidious had an advantage as Yoda had to run after him all the time. On neutral ground, it would be much harder for Sidious to disarm Yoda.

And yes, Sidious choked Dooku. But in that scenario, Yoda, who after all was Sidious equal, at least in TK, should be capable to subdue Dooku with TK as well. And if he could, then the whole prequels are bullshit.
I would rather say, that it was kind of punishment for Dooku and as Sidious' apprentice Dooku had to take it. If he would rise his guard before or smth like that, Sidious could treat it like a challange. But obviously, Dooku is inferior to either Yoda or Sidious. But no that inferior.

Originally posted by McP
@Lord Stark

I would also disagree that Yoda and Dooku were equals. They clearly were not. But on the other hand, every source that suggest some great disparity between them to is also out of logic. And there is a clear suggestion in AOTC, that it was Yoda's main goal to stop Dooku on Geonosis. Toying with him when there is bilions lifes at stake and a full scale war is out of Yoda's character. He tried, he did everything he could, if they would continue Yoda would win. But he failed.

I would disagree that ROTS Sidious >= Yoda though. Stover's novel was contradict the movie at that point from the very beginning. And ROTS script was always better then any book at that point. Yoda overhelmed Sidious in a duel, he was unable to overhelm him in a Force fight since they were equals. Sidious had an advantage as Yoda had to run after him all the time. On neutral ground, it would be much harder for Sidious to disarm Yoda.

And yes, Sidious choked Dooku. But in that scenario, Yoda, who after all was Sidious equal, at least in TK, should be capable to subdue Dooku with TK as well. And if he could, then the whole prequels are bullshit.
I would rather say, that it was kind of punishment for Dooku and as Sidious' apprentice Dooku had to take it. If he would rise his guard before or smth like that, Sidious could treat it like a challange. But obviously, Dooku is inferior to either Yoda or Sidious. But no that inferior.

Mostly agreed on the Yoda & Sidious comparisons. I think by feats in all out on neutral ground Yoda defeats ROTS Sidious. Hype goes to Sidious but the movie and screenplay speak for themselves.

As for Dooku I mean I wouldn't say Yoda is 2x Dooku as the new canon does, but I'd still say there is a sizable gap in terms of raw force powers. In just sabers, Dooku comes much closer though.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
In Canon, AotC Yoda is indeed twice as powerful as AotC Dooku. In the old continuity however, they're equals in Force strength.


Nope the AOTC Novel and script make it clear Dooku was outmatched by Yoda. Not to mention the actual film where Dooku runs from Yoda.

So AOTC Yoda > AOTC Dooku in both Legends and Canon. Quoting outdated commentary where Lucas was bigging up the fight doesnt override anything.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nope the AOTC Novel and script make it clear Dooku was outmatched by Yoda. Not to mention the actual film where Dooku runs from Yoda.

So AOTC Yoda > AOTC Dooku in both Legends and Canon. Quoting outdated commentary where Lucas was bigging up the fight doesnt override anything.


Damn this is the first draft script Lucas mentions where it skips the force battle and goes straight to the lightsaber combat. It has Yoda obliterating Dooku

Savage dies worse than Bane

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I've got the whole series downloaded except one or two issues that were never scanned.

Do you know which issue this is from?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11124/111240586/5540147-selection_028.jpg

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Do you know which issue this is from?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11124/111240586/5540147-selection_028.jpg Issue #75.

Originally posted by Psychotron
So, Anakin defeated a Dooku that was stronger than the Dooku, who held his own against Yoda. Interesting. Star Wars is weird like that. Anakin beat Dooku who beat Obi-Wan who beat Anakin.

People treat him like he is the second coming of Jesus Christ on the other forums.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regarding Dooku's growth, there's also this:

https://i.imgur.com/lNdHJPw.jpg
-Fact Files v3 #78. So according to that it seems Sidious may have been getting worried that Dooku is becoming more powerful and may try to take him out?

It's weird that Yoda has been alive for almost a thousand years, yet people think that in the ~10 years between TPM and RotS his powers had an exponential growth.

Maybe some sort of canon source has stated as much, but intuitively it doesn't make sense. Mowing down battle droids for 4 years doesn't seem like a convincing catalyst for growth in a character that is in the twilight of his life.