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ROTJ Luke goes through the gauntlet.
Canon only.

1. Ahsoka Tano
2. Ben Kenobi
3. Count Dooku
4. Anakin Skywalker
5. Mace Windu

He, of course, heals after every round.

He can clear if it's canon. Anakin and Mace should be great fights and Luke might lose because of lack of experience.

Gets to at least #5. Not entirely sure if he can beat Mace.

Return of the Jedi?

Stops at 2 tbh.

I could see him stopping at 2 or 3, I could also see him getting to 4 or 5

Personally, I see him making it 5 and losing to Mace.

I dont see why Mace would beat him if he gets past Anakin.

But thats just me.

Also feel Luke whose just become a Jedi with 4 years of mostly self training, beating Anakin who had 10years of training under a Jedi plus 3 more years of mastering his abilities post becoming a Jedi, would make little/no sense.

Stops between 2 and 5. He could lose to any of them, really

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont see why Mace would beat him if he gets past Anakin.

But thats just me.

Also feel Luke whose just become a Jedi with 4 years of mostly self training, beating Anakin who had 10years of training under a Jedi plus 3 more years of mastering his abilities post becoming a Jedi, would make little/no sense. Really depends how you perceive his fight with Vader.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont see why Mace would beat him if he gets past Anakin.

Yeah, seems odd to me how everyone is ranking Windu definitively above Anakin and Dooku.

It's hard to tell where Luke is in rotj if this is canon. All we really have to go off is his fight with Vader. We know Vader was super conflicted in his fight with his son and he wasn't trying to kill him... Had they both been out for blood and Luke beat him, I'd say Luke clears soundly.

"Always fueled by hatred, he now gathers additional strength from fear but it is not enough."

I think this is from Beware of the Dark Side it implies that Vader is at least 100%. Luke still has his dark side amp though, so it depends on how significant you think the amp is.

Don't think there's anything in canon that proves Anakin can fight Sidious level opponents. It doesn't really make much sense to me that Anakin would be weaker than Luke, but the evidence points to Luke being stronger, imo.

Canon Vader is a monster and if we scale Luke off him he should be able to clear. Now, Vader was conflicted as we know, but lets not forget that Luke lowered his defenses twice in the ROTJ fight and Vader attacked him both times. He was still lethal. One wrong move and Luke would have been dead.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Canon Vader is a monster and if we scale Luke off him he should be able to clear. Now, Vader was conflicted as we know, but lets not forget that Luke lowered his defenses twice in the ROTJ fight and Vader attacked him both times. He was still lethal. One wrong move and Luke would have been dead.



He was conflicted. But even without that, he clearly wasnt going for the kill the way he was against say Ben Kenobi.

So we have nothing to compare Lukes TK to Vaders tbh. It was a Saber only fight where they are both trying to convert each other to their side, not ragdoll each other.

Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

Luke and Vader not trying to kill each other doesn't change the fact that they were intended to be equals(and that was before Luke tapped into the dark side.)

Ah, nice. Luke definitely gets to at least 5 then.

Originally posted by Galan007
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

Luke and Vader not trying to kill each other doesn't change the fact that they were intended to be equals(and that was before Luke tapped into the dark side.)

Oh snap! That about seals the deal. Luke clears.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He was conflicted. But even without that, he clearly wasnt going for the kill the way he was against say Ben Kenobi.

So we have nothing to compare Lukes TK to Vaders tbh. It was a Saber only fight where they are both trying to convert each other to their side, not ragdoll each other.

He swung at him while Luke's saber was of. Twice. You can't honestly say he wasn't trying. And Luke wasn't going all out on Vader either. Not until Vader threatened Leia.

No, but now we have pre-ESB Luke shaking Star Destroyers and Luke shortly after ROTJ bringing down Star Destroyers in the battle of Jakku. His TK is implied to be pretty monstrous.

Originally posted by Galan007
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

Luke and Vader not trying to kill each other doesn't change the fact that they were intended to be equals(and that was before Luke tapped into the dark side.)

That settles that then.

Originally posted by Galan007
Jedi vs. Sith (2016) states:

"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."

Luke and Vader not trying to kill each other doesn't change the fact that they were intended to be equals(and that was before Luke tapped into the dark side.)


Intended is a strong word. Lucas disagrees with that being his intention (ROTJ Audio commentary). I guess his words are not canon to Disney But just pointing out Intention is the wrong word there given Lucas is the one that made those films, not Disney.

Also equally strong with the Force doesnt necessarily mean they have the same mastery over TK. And we know how strict these source books are on technicalities.

And personally I still think ROTS Anakin is > Vader in Sabers.

Originally posted by Psychotron
1)He swung at him while Luke's saber was of. Twice. You can't honestly say he wasn't trying. And Luke wasn't going all out on Vader either. Not until Vader threatened Leia.

2)No, but now we have pre-ESB Luke shaking Star Destroyers and Luke shortly after ROTJ bringing down Star Destroyers in the battle of Jakku. His TK is implied to be pretty monstrous.


1) We can because Luke says himself- Your thoughts betray you Father.. I feel the good in you... the Conflict...

And Vader even tells him later - You we’re right about me... Tell your sister, you were right...

Plus Vader is mainly seen as a beast due to his TK, not Sabers.


2) Shaking the SD he did accidentally. So mastery is important. Battle of Jakku would change things though. But its still a Post ROTJ feat.

What is your reasoning for thinking ROTS Anakin > Vader regarding Sabers?

Originally posted by Scizard
What is your reasoning for thinking ROTS Anakin > Vader regarding Sabers?

He's one of those prequel maniacs, who believes that Vader lost most of his midichlorians or some shit.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Intended is a strong word. Lucas disagrees with that being his intention (ROTJ Audio commentary). I guess his words are not canon to Disney But just pointing out Intention is the wrong word there given Lucas is the one that made those films, not Disney.

Also equally strong with the Force doesnt necessarily mean they have the same mastery over TK. And we know how strict these source books are on technicalities.

And personally I still think ROTS Anakin is > Vader in Sabers. This is canon Vader, though. So if GL's comments contradict new canon, they are irrelevant.

I think you're digging a bit. Per the source I referenced, Vader and Luke were definitely intended to be on equal footing during RotJ. They may not have been actively trying to kill each other at first(Vader was trying to turn Luke, and Luke was trying to turn Vader), but that doesn't change the the fact that Luke was meant to be operating on Vader's level... Vader no longer had a discernible advantage over him(be it with the Force or with lightsaber skill.)

Dunno, man. Nothing in canon suggests that Vader did anything but increase over the years.

Yeah, I think it was referring to his character or perhaps even the prime of that time, (basically, he has never been stronger). Just my interpretation though since I don't see a specific reason for Vader to have deteriorated.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) We can because Luke says himself- Your thoughts betray you Father.. I feel the good in you... the Conflict...

And Vader even tells him later - You we’re right about me... Tell your sister, you were right...

Plus Vader is mainly seen as a beast due to his TK, not Sabers.


2) Shaking the SD he did accidentally. So mastery is important. Battle of Jakku would change things though. But its still a Post ROTJ feat.

I don't deny his inner conflict, but he did take shots at an unarmed Luke. This is a fact. Also, there's nothing that indicates Vader's lightsaber skills diminished after ROTS in Disney canon to my knowledge.

But the raw power is there. The battle of Jakku happened only a year after ROTJ. Luke's learning curve is crazy, but I don't think Luke can grow from sub-Vader level to bringing down Star Destroyers with his TK in just one year. Galan's quote supports this.