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Originally, Dooku thought the plan was for him to pretend to be defeated by Anakin, and be taken prisoner. He realized midway through the fight that Palpatine intended for him to die.

There was always a deal between Sidious and Dooku in Lucas' mind. Sir Lee didn't want Dooku to beg ofor his life, so it was cut-off. For me Dooku just realized at that point, when Palpatine encourages Anakin to kill him, that Palpatine broke their deal and he's already done.

I also believe, that Dooku still had the upper hand against Anakin and Obi-Wan, and - unlike a a novel version - he was taunting Anakin to both - him and Sidious - could see his full power. Anakin became much stronger, Dooku couldn't keep up, he tried but lost.

It was very similar to what Vader did in his final fight with Luke after all.

Doubt it given their TCW fights.

Dooku was only slightly above Anakin in TCW S4. And Anakin grew vastly more powerful after that according to the databank.

So just dont see a scenario where Dooku was going to come out on top by ROTS tbh.

Dooku was slightly above Anakin during their last duel in TCW, I believe it was a season 6. Very smilar version of Anakin stared the fight with Dooku in ROTS. And he was unable to find any advantage as long as Obi-Wan's hindering presence was there. After Kenobi lost and Dooku taunted Anakin to use his full power, use anger and hate, Anakin won.

Look at Anakin's body language in the the last seconds of their fight in S6 TCW. Perhaps two last seconds. And first half of their duel in ROTS.

Originally posted by McP
Dooku was slightly above Anakin during their last duel in TCW, I believe it was a season 6. Very smilar version of Anakin stared the fight with Dooku in ROTS. And he was unable to find any advantage as long as Obi-Wan's hindering presence was there. After Kenobi lost and Dooku taunted Anakin to use his full power, use anger and hate, Anakin won.

Look at Anakin's body language in the the last seconds of their fight in S6 TCW. Perhaps two last seconds. And first half of their duel in ROTS.

Cool but reckon Dooku was going all out ie doing his best to defeat anakin or holding back ?

Originally posted by ozz81
Cool but reckon Dooku was going all out ie doing his best to defeat anakin or holding back ? He was following orders to be captured and realized right before Anakin was going to kill him that Sidious was going to betray him before the fight even started. Dooku I don't think was ever suppose to kill Anakin in any of their fights.

Nah Dooku was never holding back when shit got serious with Anakin. Heck we see him go for a killing blow in TCW Movie.


Originally posted by McP
Dooku was slightly above Anakin during their last duel in TCW, I believe it was a season 6. Very smilar version of Anakin stared the fight with Dooku in ROTS. And he was unable to find any advantage as long as Obi-Wan's hindering presence was there. After Kenobi lost and Dooku taunted Anakin to use his full power, use anger and hate, Anakin won.

Look at Anakin's body language in the the last seconds of their fight in S6 TCW. Perhaps two last seconds. And first half of their duel in ROTS.


Then they were equals in Dark Disciple.

All that only shows Anakin never won by luck or due to Palpatine commanding Dooku to take it easy. Anakin was just that good, and getting better throughout TCW.

I don't think the plan necessarily was *for* Dooku to lose the fight, at least not as far as Dooku was aware. The plan was for Dooku to win, but if he lost, Palpatine would grant him clemency or whatever the ****. Palpatine just didn't honor that deal, because all Sith are just retarded enough to not understand that betrayal and the eternal climb for power is the center of Sith idealogy.

Fact Files say that Dooku had met his match in the form of RotS in their Invisible Hand duel, for what it's worth.

The plan was for Dooku to be captured and taken into custody.

BTW what the f#ck is a fact file?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Official_Star_Wars_Fact_File

It says official so it must be canon?

Well It certainly wasnt part of the plan for Dooku to get his hands chopped off.

If the implication of this is that Dooku lost on purpose, you guys need to move on. He lost because Anakin was more powerful.

That was the plan laid out by Palpatine.

The fact file said they were a match however.

Meeting your match means you have met someone who is either equal to or better than you. Anakin is better than Dooku.

Well you cannot argue the fact files I suppose.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I don't think the plan necessarily was *for* Dooku to lose the fight, at least not as far as Dooku was aware.
No, it was. Dooku has a whole scene in the RotS novel where he complains about it. He's so caught up in his whining that he completely overlooks it when Sidious comments that he thinks Dooku would lose even if he did try to kill Anakin.

Dooku is only initially not trying to kill Anakin in the novel, he then realises Anakin is too powerful to not go all out.

I don't remember it that way. Dooku was starting to regain control and that's when Sidious interfered taunting Anakin which confuses Dooku allowing Anakin to get the final advantage.

Of course it's been a while since I read the novel.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
All that only shows Anakin never won by luck or due to Palpatine commanding Dooku to take it easy. Anakin was just that good, and getting better throughout TCW.

I never said that Dooku was better then Anakin when he's fighting at his 100%. Anakin, as long as Obi-Wan was there, couldn't fight as good as he could without him. As long as Obi-Wan was near, Anakin would never released his dark emotions. Which was needed for him to reach his highest level. And after he did, he was well above Dooku. Before? Not at all. Dooku was doing pretty well everytime he had to deal with them both at once.

There is no doubt in my mind Anakin may have lost had Palpatine not been there. A lot of factors at play during this fight Dooku towards the end Dooku was calm and I believe he was even stated as playing with Anakin.

And on top of Dooku being told to lose right before the fight he mentions the war was making him feel his age or something like that.

Did Anakin actually start using his aggressive feelings against Dooku there? Don't remember what the novel had to say.

^
Stover's novel shouldn't be even worth of attention here. It's out-dated, retconed and was contradict the movie since it was released.

Sidious says in the movie that Anakin is more powerful and they're equals as of DD. It makes sense for Anakin to be slightly more powerful at this stage.

Originally posted by McP
^
Stover's novel shouldn't be even worth of attention here. It's out-dated, retconed and was contradict the movie since it was released. I agree. I was just wondering if it mentioned that Anakin was actively using the dark side when he beat Dooku?

Manily because in the movie Dooku makes it a point to mention that he could sense fear, pain, and anger in Anakin, but then says he wasn't using those emotions- and that was said just moments before Anakin beat him.

The RotS novelization does mention that Anakin began using his fear/fury against Dooku after Palpatine's taunt(which was not in the film, mind you.)

However, even without actively using his dark sided emotions, Anakin was still handing Dooku his ass before that.

When Anakin wasn't using his darkside emotions Dooku was having fun and playing with him getting the upper hand that's when Sidious interfered goading Anakin to kill Dooku which surprised Dooku but by then it was too late.

Originally posted by Galan007
However, even without actively using his dark sided emotions, Anakin was still handing Dooku his ass before that.

Only in the book. Not in ROTS movie. And not in "The Rise and Fall of DV", which is far closer to the movie.
Dooku taunted Anakin pretty the same way Vader taunted Luke. In the book Palpatine do that, because Dooku was already hard pressed and would never to that, he did quite oposite.

Anakin and Obi-Wan chaarged at Dooku, he defended himself and outmanuvered them once or twice. Then he kicked Anakin away, Force choked Kenobi. Anakin was stunned by Dooku's kick for a copule of seconds. Then Anakin kick Dooku and he lands on his feet with an elegant flip. And after that taunts him. There is no way, that this can be call "loosing" in any way.

Originally posted by McP
Only in the book. That's all I was referencing, as he specifically asked about the RotS novelization's depiction.

Sorry just a bit confused .. So Canonically : in this saber duel if Dooku wanted to defeat or kill anakin he could have easily done so ?
So in the whole fight Dooku wasnt going all out as Sidious told him not to and to get defeated on purpose etc?

All that has been stated in canon is that Dooku expected Palpatine to come to his aid if Anakin started getting the better of him. I do not recall any canon sources implying that Dooku was pulling his punches against Anakin, though... Definitely not after Kenobi was incapacitated.

Originally posted by ozz81
Sorry just a bit confused .. So Canonically : in this saber duel if Dooku wanted to defeat or kill anakin he could have easily done so ?
So in the whole fight Dooku wasnt going all out as Sidious told him not to and to get defeated on purpose etc? I'm not going into compete detail because there is a lot of stuff going on that people ignore. So in a nutshell:

Dooku states he's feeling the effects of war and is becoming fatigued
Palpatine tells him the plan is to kill Kenobi and he was to be captured then released once the plan is complete.
The fight starts Dooku following the plan
Dooku realised that he might not be able to win and starts to go for the kill
Dooku was becoming tired and exhausted during the fight while Anakin is becoming stronger
Dooku switches tactics then starts to gain control again then goes back into his playful mode while having fun while he can(yes it says this)
Then Sidious intervenes goading Anakin into using aggression into killing Dooku which surprised Dooku. Dooku thought that maybe this was part of the plan and that he himself was being tested.
Then Anakin kills him.

The end.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I'm not going into compete detail because there is a lot of stuff going on that people ignore. So in a nutshell:

Dooku states he's feeling the effects of war and is becoming fatigued
Palpatine tells him the plan is to kill Kenobi and he was to be captured then released once the plan is complete.
The fight starts Dooku following the plan
Dooku realised that he might not be able to win and starts to go for the kill
Dooku was becoming tired and exhausted during the fight while Anakin is becoming stronger
Dooku switches tactics then starts to gain control again then goes back into his playful mode while having fun while he can(yes it says this)
Then Sidious intervenes goading Anakin into using aggression into killing Dooku which surprised Dooku. Dooku thought that maybe this was part of the plan and that he himself was being tested.
Then Anakin kills him.

The end. I'll just add that this is only from the ROTS novel. Most of which isn't canon anymore.

Just read a portion of the fight and never realized Dooku exhausted himself from dragging the fight on per Palpatines orders. Also says he could have killed them at any time.

I'll finish it later.

^ Which Palpatine doesn't think.

The fight is written from Dooku's perspective. He's pretty confident at the start, but changes his tune later on.

Not really....unless Dooku refers to himself in the 3rd person.

And yes Dooku does start to try harder but eventually goes back in to his playful mode.

https://prnt.sc/rvc3o9
https://prnt.sc/rvc5ez
https://prnt.sc/rvc5xc
-----------------------
https://prnt.sc/rvc6h7 -- Is going for the kill from this point onwards.
-----------------------
https://prnt.sc/rvc7um
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https://prnt.sc/rvcbtm -- Dooku taunts Anakin, making Anakin off balanced so he acts 'playful' again.
-----------------------
https://prnt.sc/rvcdfu -- Anakin channels his fury and then wins immediately afterwards.

Dooku was only started to act playfully after he taunted Anakin, which puts him off. As soon as Palpatine tells him to focus it Dooku loses. 'Dooku no longer even tried to strike back' shows that Dooku never had a chance.

Palpatine doesn't think Dooku can kill Anakin and Palpatine later proclaims Anakin as more powerful.

They're also equal as of Dark Disciple so it makes sense for Anakin to be slightly more powerful.

When Dooku went back into play mode Palpatine then got involved which surprised Dooku then he thought that maybe it was part of the plan but obviously it wasn't. Without Palpatine there to fuel Anakin Dooku would have killed them both.

And yes Anakin is more powerful but less skilled.

No. Dooku is losing to Anakin one on one after he stops playing and BEFORE Palpatine amps him. Like I said it's only when he taunts Anakin he gets the edge.

Yes Anakin is overall more powerful than Dooku, technical skill doesn't matter when you're hitting like a truck.

There's a chance Dooku may have bested Anakin while he was distracted but it only says Dooku is toying with Anakin, not that he's putting heavy pressure on Anakin.

In any normal circumstance Dooku loses.

Dooku was playing around with Kenobi and Anakin for most of the fight even to the point where he says he was doing all he could not to laugh at the two of them.

Dooku started to get tired from dragging the fight on too long then realized he might be in danger of losing so he changes his tactics which gave him the edge again so he went back in the playing around with them mode and then and there is when Palpatine decided to intervene and fuel Anakins rage to kill Dooku who thought that Palpatine had lost his mind.

It's pretty clear to me that if Sidious wasn't there to coach Anakin and Dooku was trying to kill them he would have won. But Sidious had other plans.

I suppose that would be an understandable interpretation, for someone who requires three days to read a ten page fight sequence.

No. It specificly mentions Anakin's power, how hard he hits and that it is Anakin that is tiring him out.

Calls Anakin's strikes unstoppable. It also mentions that blocking Anakin's strikes took more energy then taking out Kenobi.

"Each block aged him a decade"

Anakin's strikes at this point would've tired Dooku out regardless if he was tired or not, it specifically puts emphasis on how Anakin's strikes tire him out, the fact that he might've already been tired is not important.

If Sidious wasn't in the picture Dooku wouldn't have taunted Anakin to begin with. He would've gone for the kill immediately and then lost to Anakin.

Because as per Sidious Anakin is more powerful.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I suppose that would be an understandable interpretation, for someone who requires three days to read a ten page fight sequence. Nothing I posted was made up so I can't help it if you don't like it.

Originally posted by Scizard
No. It specificly mentions Anakin's power, how hard he hits and that it is Anakin that is tiring him out.

Calls Anakin's strikes unstoppable. It also mentions that blocking Anakin's strikes took more energy then taking out Kenobi.

"Each block aged him a decade"

Anakin's strikes at this point would've tired Dooku out regardless if he was tired or not, it specifically puts emphasis on how Anakin's strikes tire him out, the fact that he might've already been tired is not important.

If Sidious wasn't in the picture Dooku wouldn't have taunted Anakin to begin with. He would've gone for the kill immediately and then lost to Anakin.

Because as per Sidious Anakin is more powerful. Dooku says before the fight even begins that he tired from war and ready to take it easy.

During the fight Dooku even says that he's getting tired from dragging the fight out too long then he gets a 2nd wind.

Then as you pointed out and I admitt I forgot to add is that Dooku got tired again allowing Anakin to finally get the win.

You guys have a stool to stand on.

Ignoring the parts that specifically attibute Dooku tiring to Anakin and Anakin's 'unstoppable' strikes.

I didn't ignore that as you can see if you read my last post I said Dooku was getting tired for a 2nd time in the fight.

Good job Anakin you beat an old man who was getting tired who wasn't even trying to kill you.

Fail to see the point, either way Count Dooku gets beaten, tired/not tired. Trying to kill or not trying to kill Anakin is still superior by ROTS.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I didn't ignore that as you can see if you read my last post I said Dooku was getting tired for a 2nd time in the fight.

Good job Anakin you beat an old man who was getting tired who wasn't even trying to kill you. I forgot to mention Anakin had Palpatine there to fuel his rage. So he had help in a sense as well.