Top five most powerful Star Wars film characters

quanchi112

Originally posted by Psychotron
Amped!Rey
ROS Sidious
Luke Skywalker
Yoda
Darth Vader

Kylo Ren would get destroyed by the average PT Jedi in a fight. Rey was never amped. She was inspired by the Jedi. Sidious was amped by the dyad yet still went down hard. Kylo has her beaten as I said Kylo is the most complete force user in terms of formidability of all time films wise which is all that really matters.

Kylos power level is well above any pt Jedi. The new trilogy trumped all power levels by the Pt in every way.

playa1258

Amped Rey
Sidious
Luke
Yoda
Vader

Ben did beat Rey in the film and is easily on par without Reys amp.

quanchi112

Originally posted by playa1258
Amped Rey
Sidious
Luke
Yoda
Vader

Ben did beat Rey in the film and is easily on par without Reys amp. Kylo Ren is at the top. Sidious died with the dyad amp by just Rey. Ren and Rey are the most powerful force users thus far. smile

Eon Blue

Rey
Kylo
Yoda
Sidious
Luke Skywalker

Impediment

Yoda
Palpatine
Luke
Kylo Ren
Rey

Bashar Teg

im pretty sure that palp's stupid-ridiculous feats in ep9 proved him to be the most powerful force user. we're talking raw power and not swordsmanship/h2h, right?

jaden_2.0

Watto
The jawa that shouts "UTINI"
Dita the Porg
Salacious B. Crumb
Droopy McCool

The Merchant

How is Kylo number 1 when he wanted Rey to help him take on the zombie version of Palps who was whomping them even before he absorbed the Dyad lmfao

Psychotron

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rey was never amped. She was inspired by the Jedi. Sidious was amped by the dyad yet still went down hard. Kylo has her beaten as I said Kylo is the most complete force user in terms of formidability of all time films wise which is all that really matters.

Kylos power level is well above any pt Jedi. The new trilogy trumped all power levels by the Pt in every way.

Rey was amped the same way Sidious was. And Sidious tossed Kylo down that hole like the sack of garbage he was, while Rey beat Sidious. Rey with the Jedi spirits > Sidious > Kylo is not in question.

His power level is shit. He was helpless against the KoR without his lightsaber. People like Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, Vader, Luke etc. would would have destroyed those jobbers with the Force.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
im pretty sure that palp's stupid-ridiculous feats in ep9 proved him to be the most powerful force user. we're talking raw power and not swordsmanship/h2h, right? He was amped though by the dyad but Rey showed she could beat him. Granted she probably does not have the raw power output but her power equaled out the Sith in the Jedi ending them both. Him first then her.

quanchi112

Originally posted by The Merchant
How is Kylo number 1 when he wanted Rey to help him take on the zombie version of Palps who was whomping them even before he absorbed the Dyad lmfao Palpatine did not defeat either of them he stole power to amp himself. Ben at his most powerful under balance soundly dominated Rey. An amped Palpatine was held in check just by Rey. When she brought out the second saber she walked him back and decimated him. Luckily Ren was symbolically killed by Rey after he felt his mother pass. Kylo Ren was just on another formidable level. Palpatine is fl or bust. If you have a saber you can parry it.

steverules_2

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine did not defeat either of them he stole power to amp himself. Ben at his most powerful under balance soundly dominated Rey. An amped Palpatine was held in check just by Rey. When she brought out the second saber she walked him back and decimated him. Luckily Ren was symbolically killed by Rey after he felt his mother pass. Kylo Ren was just on another formidable level. Palpatine is fl or bust. If you have a saber you can parry it.

Quan is back!

quanchi112

Originally posted by Psychotron
Rey was amped the same way Sidious was. And Sidious tossed Kylo down that hole like the sack of garbage he was, while Rey beat Sidious. Rey with the Jedi spirits > Sidious > Kylo is not in question.

His power level is shit. He was helpless against the KoR without his lightsaber. People like Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, Vader, Luke etc. would would have destroyed those jobbers with the Force. No, as she received no external power ups. It is not how the Jedi work. Sith use unnatural means the Jedi do not. She was not alone but her strength was innate in her.

No, he was not helpless. He was outnumbered and weaponless. Once he acquired a weapon he dominated them. Sidious it seems is just fl from rotj even until now. Kinda pathetic tbh. Rey walked him back and dominated an amped Palpatine. Ren soundly dominated her on the ship. Kylo Ren is at the top of the mountain. Rey is number 2.

quanchi112

Originally posted by steverules_2
Quan is back! I am here to kill the Ot fanboys just as Kylo Ren killed the big three.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was amped though by the dyad but Rey showed she could beat him. Granted she probably does not have the raw power output but her power equaled out the Sith in the Jedi ending them both. Him first then her.

I wasnt aware that he had powerups. Not saying you're wrong, tbh when he was blowing up the resistance fleet with force lighting I was cringing hard and trying to find my happy place, so I might have missed some details. I probably will never do a rewatch so I'll take your word for it unless someone proves otherwise

quanchi112

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I wasnt aware that he had powerups. Not saying you're wrong, tbh when he was blowing up the resistance fleet with force lighting I was cringing hard and trying to find my happy place, so I might have missed some details. I probably will never do a rewatch so I'll take your word for it unless someone proves otherwise The dyad gave him power healing him and what not. It was not terrible it was a force storm so it was not blowing the ships up just disrupting the systems caught in the radius. We see Rey can parry the force lightning with one lightsaber.

Rey did blow up a ship with her fl though I do believe sidious could do the same in that situation.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by The Merchant
How is Kylo number 1 when he wanted Rey to help him take on the zombie version of Palps who was whomping them even before he absorbed the Dyad lmfao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjy6HJNn79I

Not that the movie leaves any doubt, but the canon ROS novel also makes it pretty clear on its own that undead Sheev is still > Reylo individually and combined:

https://i.ibb.co/zGvy6n0/tros-rey-vs-sheev.jpg

Later on:

https://i.ibb.co/pjzwsKY/TROS-sheev-vs-rey-kylo.jpg

Originally posted by Psychotron
Rey was amped the same way Sidious was. And Sidious tossed Kylo down that hole like the sack of garbage he was, while Rey beat Sidious. Rey with the Jedi spirits > Sidious > Kylo is not in question.

Eh, not quite.

The jury's still out on whatever power up Sheev received from prior Sith, since a foundational element of Disney Wars canon is that when Sith physically die, they cease to exist spiritually.

Rey, on the other hand, did indeed literally receive a power up from Jedi past, which I think is made pretty clear in the movie when she hears a chorus of dead Jedi talking to her and goes from being curbstomped by a weakened Sheev in the clip above to standing toe-to-toe against the Sheev that's zapping thousands of starships out of the sky.

But if further corroboration is necessary, the canon ROS novel confirms her power-up at various points:

https://i.ibb.co/VJZ63FD/rey-conduit-jedi.jpg

Then:

https://i.ibb.co/vPBtL3q/rey-conduit-jedi-2.jpg

And again:

https://i.ibb.co/BwTcJRy/rey-conduit-jedi-3.jpg

And once more:

https://i.ibb.co/y4XJ9ZY/rey-conduit-jedi-4.jpg

Edit: Forgot to add, Psychotron: note that the text above confirms what we see in the movie.

Rey doesn't actually ever overpower the Emperor. She's protected from the lightning by "an impenetrable shield" of crossguarded lightsabers while the Emperor is physically exposed to the random arcs and feedback.

All she has to do is close the gap between them and the lightning is now close enough to start hitting him in the face while hers is protected by the lightsabers.

quanchi112

The reaching has always been strong from the sheevites. She was inspired by the Jedi but their powers rely within in a natural manner not external power ups. We see sidious literally steal power from Ben and Rey on screen.

Dominis

Sidious number one

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Sidious number one No, but citing hyperbole in book form is a tactic of the sheevites when the intention of the posters is clearly biased. It is fine but let us not pretend they are being objective especially when we visibly see him steal force power from the dyad. The reasoning is selective all designed to portray Palpatine in a favorable light.

Yes, just as they always say it is your fight. They were there to support her emotionally and inspirational young not some unnatural power augment perverting what the Jedi represent.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Sidious number one How is he unamped more powerful than Ren?

Dominis

Ben ran up and got dropped by a crippled Palpatine.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Ben ran up and got dropped by a crippled Palpatine. Ben does not employ the same mentality, methods or use of power as Ren. Also, Ben was not defeated he was thrown down but he was weaponless at that point. Rey showed one saber was enough to parry him two was more than enough to defeat him.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Dominis
Ben ran up and got dropped by a crippled Palpatine.

Ya, the book flatly says Rey and Ben were both helpless against the Emperor's power.

https://i.ibb.co/pjzwsKY/TROS-sheev-vs-rey-kylo.jpg

Also interestingly, when Kylo first confronts the Emperor in the book, he notes that the Emperor is more powerful than anybody he's ever sensed:

https://i.ibb.co/KLxNyF9/kylo-senses-sheev-1.jpg

quanchi112

She does resist him due to her innate strength and the inspiration from the other Jedi. It does not state more powerful than any other being he had encountered. Plus if we post the definition it is not clear cut but the bias kind of is with all due respect.

the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

2.
the capacity or ability to direct or influence others or the course of events.

Dominis

I guess the logic in this thread is that a crippled Sheev is more powerful than a fully restored one.

Lmao wow!

BestDebaterEver

Going purely by the movies...

1. Darth Sidious, The Rise of Skywalker

2. Yoda, Revenge of the Sith

3. Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith

4. Anakin Skywalker, Revenge of the Sith

5. Luke Skywalker, The Last Jedi

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
I guess the logic in this thread is that a crippled Sheev is more powerful than a fully restored one.

Lmao wow! No, but force holding someone when you are less powerful is not a win. It a momentary setback. We see him fully amped lose to Rey after she is inspired. Keep in mind he initially wanted her to take his place.

quanchi112

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Going purely by the movies...

1. Darth Sidious, The Rise of Skywalker

2. Yoda, Revenge of the Sith

3. Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith

4. Anakin Skywalker, Revenge of the Sith

5. Luke Skywalker, The Last Jedi

I typically don't engage in numerical ranking, but the Emperor is by far the most powerful Force user in canon outside (perhaps) the Mortis Anchorites, based on feats and accolades alike.

That said, I'd say it's pretty clear that Rey comes in second. With past Jedi bolstering her power and armed with two lightsabers, she was able to stand toe-to-toe against the Emperor.

I can't give her the nod over him because the novel makes clear what we see in the movie: her lightsabers protected her from the lightning arcs. All she did was close the gap between her and Sheev; the stray arcs of the lightning were then close enough to seriously injure him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVaVWQAi58M

Specifically, note the :40 second mark. She's moved closer, and one of the random arcs hits him in the face. Then by :44 he's dropped his hands, no longer casting the lightning.

So with his lightning no longer keeping her at bay, she fires his own energies back in his face with fatal effect, just like the novel describes.

Still, despite these advantages: a literal powerup from all the Jedi who came before as well as two lightsabers, the effort still kills her.

BestDebaterEver

Oh yeah if we include temporary amps, I think Rey would make a fairly close second to Sidious. I suppose if we were to use Canon more broadly then Anakin while he is ragdolling the Son and Daughter on Mortis would move up the list dramatically.

Dominis

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, but force holding someone when you are less powerful is not a win.

Easily restraining Ben and Rey, and choosing not to kill them, when in fact he could have, to instead drain them to restore his own power, isn't a showing of Palps superiority over them?

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Oh yeah if we include temporary amps, I think Rey would make a fairly close second to Sidious. I suppose if we were to use Canon more broadly then Anakin while he is ragdolling the Son and Daughter on Mortis would move up the list dramatically.

True about Mortakin, but I'm just considering film iterations of the characters per the OP.

Interesting observation about Rey. It may very well have been a temporary power up. Perhaps not, though. However, if she ever became a living conduit for all the dead Jedi again as she did on Exegol, perhaps the act would kill her again?

https://i.ibb.co/VJZ63FD/rey-conduit-jedi.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/vPBtL3q/rey-conduit-jedi-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/BwTcJRy/rey-conduit-jedi-3.jpg

Based on these excerpts, I think the novel corroborates what we see pretty clearly in the film: standing against the Emperor, who is so much more powerful than her or anyone else she's ever encountered, "took everything the Jedi had given her."

That's insane. So it wasn't simply having all that dead Jedi power in her that killed her; it was burning through it all to stop the Emperor.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Easily restraining Ben and Rey, and choosing not to kill them, when in fact he could have, to instead drain them to restore his own power, isn't a showing of Palps superiority over them? He tried to kill them both later when he was at full power. He failed. It was him successfully gaining an advantage to ultimately lose the battle and his life to Rey. We cannot ignore he tries to kill them both to bring in the speculative he could have killed them when in fact he tried and ultimately failed.

Dominis

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I typically don't engage in numerical ranking, but the Emperor is by far the most powerful Force user in canon outside (perhaps) the Mortis Anchorites, based on feats and accolades alike.

That said, I'd say it's pretty clear that Rey comes in second. With past Jedi bolstering her power and armed with two lightsabers, she was able to stand toe-to-toe against the Emperor.

I can't give her the nod over him because the novel makes clear what we see in the movie: her lightsabers protected her from the lightning arcs. All she did was close the gap between her and Sheev; the stray arcs of the lightning were then close enough to seriously injure him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVaVWQAi58M

Specifically, note the :40 second mark. She's moved closer, and one of the random arcs hits him in the face. Then by :44 he's dropped his hands, no longer casting the lightning.

So with his lightning no longer keeping her at bay, she fires his own energies back in his face with fatal effect, just like the novel describes.

Still, despite these advantages: a literal powerup from all the Jedi who came before as well as two lightsabers, the effort still kills her.

Yeah.

Also, the novel also makes it clear that she would have died if not for the jedi lending their power, right.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Yeah.

Also, the novel also makes it clear that she would have died if not for the jedi lending their power, right. She was inspired not amped as it is not a natural process plus as Luke says this is her fight. What I find highly ironic is the idea sidious has no amp and to ignore his quotes of the power of all the Sith in the film. It is just her which shows as always an intentional bias to lead toward the best conclusion to support the emperor. Selective reasoning and ignoring him clearly absorbing power to heal himself from the dyad to boot. I mean the Jedi said they were clearly with her which somehow means mega amp. The Jedi do not try to amass insabevoower they rely on their own innate strength in a natural manner.

BestDebaterEver

What's interesting too is "But she chose to be their conduit. Their vessel." and "A well of power from which to draw" and "the Force will be with you. Always." and "full of strength freely given" etc.

It certainly seems like it's not "temporary" in the sense that she can access this power whenever she wants; it's there when she needs it. But equally, without the small vestige of Force energy Ren offered her, she would have died - it took everything she had, even with all that power, just to reflect Sidious' own power back at him and defeat him, dying in the process.

BestDebaterEver

It goes to show how much of a difference this Jedi power makes. It's crazy.

Just looking back at these clips for the first time in months, I forgot how effortlessly and casually Sidious stomped Kylo and Rey. And that was when he was in a destroyed clone body that made him weaker than his Return of the Jedi self for crying out loud.

So for Rey to then go ahead and hold her own against Dyad-buffed Sidious by herself shows a gargantuan improvement over the course of the film. I mean, she was losing to frigging to Kylo at one point, and we already know he is nothing to the Emperor.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Dominis
Yeah.

Also, the novel also makes it clear that she would have died if not for the jedi lending their power, right.

She cites the Jedi who came before her as one of the reasons she was able to merely "survive" and "resist" the Emperor:

https://i.ibb.co/y4XJ9ZY/rey-conduit-jedi-4.jpg

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
What's interesting too is "But she chose to be their conduit. Their vessel." and "A well of power from which to draw" and "the Force will be with you. Always." and "full of strength freely given" etc.

It certainly seems like it's not "temporary" in the sense that she can access this power whenever she wants; it's there when she needs it. But equally, without the small vestige of Force energy Ren offered her, she would have died - it took everything she had, even with all that power, just to reflect Sidious' own power back at him and defeat him, dying in the process.

Exactly, yeah. That's the generosity she mentions above. Their "generosity" was demonstrated with the strength "freely given" to Rey by them in the final confrontation.

quanchi112

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
What's interesting too is "But she chose to be their conduit. Their vessel." and "A well of power from which to draw" and "the Force will be with you. Always." and "full of strength freely given" etc.

It certainly seems like it's not "temporary" in the sense that she can access this power whenever she wants; it's there when she needs it. But equally, without the small vestige of Force energy Ren offered her, she would have died - it took everything she had, even with all that power, just to reflect Sidious' own power back at him and defeat him, dying in the process. Power in terms of not an amp but inner strength achieved due to their inspiration through the force. She still beat him despite all the power he had acquired from the dyad. He was just fl in the end. He was portrayed the same in rotj.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
It goes to show how much of a difference this Jedi power makes. It's crazy.

Just looking back at these clips for the first time in months, I forgot how effortlessly and casually Sidious stomped Kylo and Rey. And that was when he was in a destroyed clone body that made him weaker than his Return of the Jedi self for crying out loud.

So for Rey to then go ahead and hold her own against Dyad-buffed Sidious by herself shows a gargantuan improvement over the course of the film. I mean, she was losing to frigging to Kylo at one point, and we already know he is nothing to the Emperor.

TROS is a hot goddamn mess, but so much shit happens that it's easy to forget some of the crucial bits.

It's weird how there was no epic battle between the Emperor and Reylo. They just stomp his henchmen and he ragdolls them while still dangling from a mechanical arm lol.

It's also ironic that the Emperor accidentally discovering that they were a dyad is what ultimately saved their lives. "Stand together, die together!"

His goal was to just murder them outright and he accidentally got a jolt of their sweet dyad juice.

We even see it in the movie: they're both on their knees before him, squirming, "helpless against his power" per the novelization, while he's distractedly monologuing about this new discovery.

quanchi112

So you believe despite wanting to kill them both later after he steals power he fails because...

I need a reason why someone of his intelligence failed in both instances if he so easily could iyo.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by Dominis
I guess the logic in this thread is that a crippled Sheev is more powerful than a fully restored one.

Lmao wow!

iirc he was fully restored when he did that ridiculous stupid "are you f*cking kidding me? REALLY?" force lighting stunt

Dominis

Originally posted by The_Tempest
She cites the Jedi who came before her as one of the reasons she was able to merely "survive" and "resist" the Emperor:

https://i.ibb.co/y4XJ9ZY/rey-conduit-jedi-4.jpg

Exactly, yeah. That's the generosity she mentions above. Their "generosity" was demonstrated with the strength "freely given" to Rey by them in the final confrontation.

I guess the novel is good for something: pointing out what's clearly portrayed on screen lol.

Still haven't read it.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
iirc he was fully restored when he did that ridiculous stupid "are you f*cking kidding me? REALLY?" force lighting stunt

Yes, he was fully restored then.

I think Dominis is referring to the fact that a weakened Sidious, dangling from a mechanical arm, ragdolled and curbstomped Ben and Rey at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=159lvl1QyJw

The canon ROS book says they are both helpless against his power.

Originally posted by Dominis
I guess the novel is good for something: pointing out what's clearly portrayed on screen lol.

Still haven't read it.

Yeah, that's about all it's good for. The novel is pretty shit otherwise, written by a mediocre YA author.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
I guess the novel is good for something: pointing out what's clearly portrayed on screen lol.

Still haven't read it.

Glad we agree. She needed the inspiration and support from her friends to muster the strength to fight off the unnatural Sith who placed power above all else. Hero triumphs over villain despite the grimness of the situation. Tale as old as time.

Reminds me of Harry Potter in OttP when Harry seeks the strength and support of his friends as Voldemort possesses him. It was not a mega amp to repel him just the power of friendship and support elevating your willpower to overcome a dire situation.

BestDebaterEver

Originally posted by The_Tempest
TROS is a hot goddamn mess, but so much shit happens that it's easy to forget some of the crucial bits.

It's weird how there was no epic battle between the Emperor and Reylo. They just stomp his henchmen and he ragdolls them while still dangling from a mechanical arm lol.

It's also ironic that the Emperor accidentally discovering that they were a dyad is what ultimately saved their lives. "Stand together, die together!"

His goal was to just murder them outright and he accidentally got a jolt of their sweet dyad juice.

We even see it in the movie: they're both on their knees before him, squirming, "helpless against his power" per the novelization, while he's distractedly monologuing about this new discovery. Reylo were dead to rights, yeah.

While we're on the topic, do you remember what the novel says about Kylo when Sidious tosses him off the cliff like a lil *****? I think surviving that fall is just about the only useful thing he did in the whole movie.

quanchi112

Psychotron

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, as she received no external power ups. It is not how the Jedi work. Sith use unnatural means the Jedi do not. She was not alone but her strength was innate in her.

No, he was not helpless. He was outnumbered and weaponless. Once he acquired a weapon he dominated them. Sidious it seems is just fl from rotj even until now. Kinda pathetic tbh. Rey walked him back and dominated an amped Palpatine. Ren soundly dominated her on the ship. Kylo Ren is at the top of the mountain. Rey is number 2.

That's ridiculous. It would mean that Rey is more powerful than a version Sidious that can take out an entire fleet with his lightning. Stop drinking whatever your drinking.

Yes, he was helpless. They were beating his ass. Killing a bunch of jobbers with a lightsaber is not a good feat, especially considering the KoR's weapons weren't even lightsaber resistant. That same Palpatine casually threw Ren down a pit. As for Rey, she beat Kylo in TFA, TLJ and TROS. She's 3:0 against that ugly dork.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, he was fully restored then.

I think Dominis is referring to the fact that a weakened Sidious, dangling from a mechanical arm, ragdolled and curbstomped Ben and Rey at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=159lvl1QyJw

The canon ROS book says they are both helpless against his power.

Yeah, that's about all it's good for. The novel is pretty shit otherwise, written by a mediocre YA author.

my God, the novel just makes it worse. I wish quan was right and there was indeed some sort of sith-gauntlet powerup. similar dilemma as with that hyperspeed-khamikazi attack in TLJ, when we were all like "gee why didn't they just send some droid to pilot a frigate and ram the deathstar in eps 4 and 6?" now I'm like "gee why didn't palp just fly in at the end of every episode and just throw everyone around and murder them with force-lightning

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Reylo were dead to rights, yeah.

While we're on the topic, do you remember what the novel says about Kylo when Sidious tosses him off the cliff like a lil *****? I think surviving that fall is just about the only useful thing he did in the whole movie.

It's funny you mention that actually. ermm

https://i.ibb.co/Bq7nP78/sidious-disposes-of-ben.jpg

This is the passage in its entirety. The only things the author seems to care to point here is that the Emperor is totally unimpressed with Ren, discards him with a thought, and then forgets about him entirely the next second. haermm

Dominis

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
iirc he was fully restored when he did that ridiculous stupid "are you f*cking kidding me? REALLY?" force lighting stunt

Yeah, I know. I was just following the logic used by Quanchi.

The fact that she was helpless against a weakened Sidious, yet was able to access enough power to defeat a fully restored Emperor, means she was wielding power that she hadn't before. Whether he wants to accept the canon explanation that she was empowered by all the jedi in favor of his interpretation that it was her own innate power, either way, it's still power she was unable to access before that point, including when she fought Ren.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Psychotron
That's ridiculous. It would mean that Rey is more powerful than a version Sidious that can take out an entire fleet with his lightning. Stop drinking whatever your drinking.

Yes, he was helpless. They were beating his ass. Killing a bunch of jobbers with a lightsaber is not a good feat, especially considering the KoR's weapons weren't even lightsaber resistant. That same Palpatine casually threw Ren down a pit. As for Rey, she beat Kylo in TFA, TLJ and TROS. She's 3:0 against that ugly dork. Rey is not more powerful but has the will and the lightsabers to defeat an old one trick fl pony. She represented the Jedi he represented the Sith. She was natural he was unnatural. Light vs. dark. Force tends to balance it out as it did when Ren rose in power Rey shot up too.

They were elite warriors not the fools vader killed in Rogue One. Those guys were screaming and flailing their arms who accomplished their mission of getting the disk out of there.

You lack context. Ren defeated her twice in TFA. He was spiritually unbalanced as well as wounded from the bowcaster and a lightsaber.

TLJ Ren looked superior against the praetorian guard. What are you talking about?

In the final film Ren dominates her. She is on her back helpless when Ren feels his mother pass then lets go of his saber. He crushed her. You really lack the facts and the intelligence left to really even have a debate with.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by Dominis
Yeah, I know. I was just following the logic used by Quanchi.

my bad, I forgot about the other ridiculous feats performed by mummy-palp. The final feat eclipsed them all in terms of stupidity

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
Yeah, I know. I was just following the logic used by Quanchi.

The fact that she was helpless against a weakened Sidious, yet was able to access enough power to defeat a fully restored Emperor, means she was wielding power that she hadn't before. Whether he wants to accept the canon explanation that she was empowered by all the jedi in favor of his interpretation that it was her own innate power, either way, it's still power she was unable to access before that point, including when she fought Ren. She believed in herself and had renewed determination. Palpatine tried to kill both her and Ben. He was unable despite what opinion you have he was unsuccessful when the rubber met the road.

Kenobi beat Darth Vader despite Vader outclassing him in power, ability, and skill. Rey used two sabers to overpower the fl and deflect it back. In the end Palpatine was fl or bust.

Galan007

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Interesting observation about Rey. It may very well have been a temporary power up. Perhaps not, though. The implication to me is that Rey burned through the entirety of the Jedi amp to overcome Palpatine. So when Ben resurrected her, I highly doubt that she was resurrected with 1,000 generations-worth of extra Jedi power. I interpreted it as a one-off powerup that was only achievable in Rey's moment of need.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
my bad, I forgot about the other ridiculous feats performed by mummy-palp. The final feat eclipsed them all in terms of stupidity

Sheev's feats in TROS are mind-boggling, so I understand the frustration.

Hell, a lot of people still debate whether he used the Force to lift the Star Destroyer fleet out from under Exegol's surface. We see Force lightning dance around his fingers as he lifts his hands and then boom! the ships rise.

But there's no official confirmation either way that he did it.

Originally posted by Galan007
The implication to me is that Rey burned through the entirety of the Jedi amp to overcome Palpatine. So when Ben resurrected her, I highly doubt that she was resurrected with 1,000 generations-worth of extra Jedi power. I interpreted it as a one-off powerup that occurred in a moment of her greatest need.

Presumably you're right, Galan. Because now that I think about it, if she were resurrected with the amp, wouldn't she have been able to resurrect Ben?

BestDebaterEver

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's funny you mention that actually. ermm

https://i.ibb.co/Bq7nP78/sidious-disposes-of-ben.jpg

This is the passage in its entirety. The only things the author seems to care to point here is that the Emperor is totally unimpressed with Ren, discards him with a thought, and then forgets about him entirely the next second. haermm It's just making me think. At least in RotJ there was a whole plot point surrounding the idea of Luke and Vader teaming up to defeat Sidious. I'm not sure how well they would have done, but they might have made a decent fight out of it.

But Rey and Kylo were, comparatively, so pathetic and weak that the idea of them teaming up isn't even slightly threatening to Sidious. He discards them like a used tissue.

Does the novel mention Snoke at all?

Dominis

The_Tempest and ILS, which would you guys say is the better feat: TKing Maul and Opress or Rey and Kylo?

Psychotron

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rey is not more powerful but has the will and the lightsabers to defeat an old one trick fl pony. She represented the Jedi he represented the Sith. She was natural he was unnatural. Light vs. dark. Force tends to balance it out as it did when Ren rose in power Rey shot up too.

They were elite warriors not the fools vader killed in Rogue One. Those guys were screaming and flailing their arms who accomplished their mission of getting the disk out of there.

You lack context. Ren defeated her twice in TFA. He was spiritually unbalanced as well as wounded from the bowcaster and a lightsaber.

TLJ Ren looked superior against the praetorian guard. What are you talking about?

In the final film Ren dominates her. She is on her back helpless when Ren feels his mother pass then lets go of his saber. He crushed her. You really lack the facts and the intelligence left to really even have a debate with.

Since when does having two lightsabers increase your power level? Amped!Rey beat Amped!Sidious. Before she got her amp he was casually dominating her and Kylo.

Elite warriors? Lmao. Name some of their feats.

Injured, sure. And she was completely untrained. She had never held a lightsaber before and out-dueled him. I can't even image how badly someone like Vader would rape this loser.

TLJ Ren was getting choked out by a guard and had to be saved by Rey.

In the final film he gets stabbed and has to be saved by Rey's superior knowledge of the Force. Come up with some more excuses, Quanny.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
It's just making me think. At least in RotJ there was a whole plot point surrounding the idea of Luke and Vader teaming up to defeat Sidious. I'm not sure how well they would have done, but they might have made a decent fight out of it.

But Rey and Kylo were, comparatively, so pathetic and weak that the idea of them teaming up isn't even slightly threatening to Sidious. He discards them like a used tissue.

Does the novel mention Snoke at all?

It's interesting, because Ren parrots Vader (naturally) by making Rey the same offer Vader made Luke: "Join me and we'll kill the Emperor together."

...Then we see how well they do when the moment comes, which is awkward af. ermm

And yeah, Snoke is mentioned a few times. Had to dig up some of the more pertinent quotes:

https://i.ibb.co/ZKkwF1j/snoke-pawn-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/g6BQnmm/snoke-pawn-3.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/mTRfTmQ/snoke-pawn.jpg

Basically, the gist is Snoke was the Emperor's pawn and puppet. A disposable minion to serve as Kylo's final test. Even Kylo apparently recognizes that all of Snoke's achievements were ultimately Palpatine's.

Originally posted by Dominis
The_Tempest and ILS, which would you guys say is the better feat: TKing Maul and Opress or Rey and Kylo?

Damn good question. They're probably comparable since Maul and Savage have Force feats on par with Kylo and Rey's prior to her amp from the dead Jedi.

Bashar Teg

quanchi112

Originally posted by Psychotron
Since when does having two lightsabers increase your power level? Amped!Rey beat Amped!Sidious. Before she got her amp he was casually dominating her and Kylo.

Elite warriors? Lmao. Name some of their feats.

Injured, sure. And she was completely untrained. She had never held a lightsaber before and out-dueled him. I can't even image how badly someone like Vader would rape this loser.

TLJ Ren was getting choked out by a guard and had to be saved by Rey.

In the final film he gets stabbed and has to be saved by Rey's superior knowledge of the Force. Come up with some more excuses, Quanny. It does not. It just shows she had the necessary equipment and power to summon the other to defeat him.

Palpatine stole power from them. Undeniable. He lost despite the clear external amp from the dyad.

Ren was unbalanced, injured. He just killed his father. Couple that with two injuries her connection the force and we see why it was possible given those circumstances.

Vader never bested any respectable force user. Not once. He is exaggerated due to nostalgia.

He was taking three at a time on she struggled with just one a few times. Watch the scene Ren faces more and looks far better but I doubt you even noticed. You do not seem capable of assessing the facts objectively.

You ignore the context so continue to live in a fantasy world of your own making.

Ren is at the top unamped list.

BestDebaterEver

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
according to this new canon, palpatine apparently could have stomped them both in a nanosecond with his right hand while blowing up the rebel fleet with his left Ah I see, so not much different from Reylo then.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's interesting, because Ren parrots Vader (naturally) by making Rey the same offer Vader made Luke: "Join me and we'll kill the Emperor together."

...Then we see how well they do when the moment comes, which is awkward af. ermm

And yeah, Snoke is mentioned a few times. Had to dig up some of the more pertinent quotes:

https://i.ibb.co/ZKkwF1j/snoke-pawn-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/g6BQnmm/snoke-pawn-3.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/mTRfTmQ/snoke-pawn.jpg

Basically, the gist is Snoke was the Emperor's pawn and puppet. A disposable minion to serve as Kylo's final test. Even Kylo apparently recognizes that all of Snoke's achievements were ultimately Palpatine's.

Damn good question. They're probably comparable since Maul and Savage have Force feats on par with Kylo and Rey's prior to her amp from the dead Jedi.
eek!

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Ah I see, so not much different from Reylo then.

eek!

Even Snoke is pathetic.

I don't think Rey or Ren were even close to ready to fight the Emperor. Maybe if Kylo had taken the time to learn how to construct a lightsaber correctly and brush up on how to make a half-decent Force shield he would have been more useful.

Yeah, the movie and book are both very unflattering to Snoke.

Also interestingly, the novel explains that the Emperor is able to communicate with Ren across time and space, just like Rey... except it also notes, unlike Rey, Sidious doesn't require a connection to a dyad to do it. messed

The text also flatly says Snoke was unable to do it.

With all this in mind, I'm not sure if Snoke, Rey, and Ben together would be enough to defeat the Emperor without Rey's Jedi amp. ermm

quanchi112

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Kylo Ren
2. Rey
3. Sidious/Yoda
4. Luke Skywalker
5. Anakin Skywalker Unamped this is the definitive list.

Bashar Teg

while i have seen no evidence of amping, iirc film novelizations do not serve as evidence in movie versus. not 100% certain, though

Dominis

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Damn good question. They're probably comparable since Maul and Savage have Force feats on par with Kylo and Rey's prior to her amp from the dead Jedi.

Palpatine be snatching up force users left and right: Dooku, Maul & Savage, Ben & Rey. He's also blitzed three jedi masters, nearly overwhelmed Yoda by throwing a bunch of senate vehicles, forced Ahsoka and Ezra to run despite being in another dimension.

He's arguably number one even before feeding off of Rey and Ben's dyad.

quanchi112

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
while i have seen no evidence of amping, iirc film novelizations do not serve as evidence in movie versus. not 100% certain, though Yeah, no one really cares for them. They are just meant to make more money. Movie is only thing that matters and we clearly see the dyad give him additional power he is not capable of innately.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
while i have seen no evidence of amping, iirc film novelizations do not serve as evidence in movie versus. not 100% certain, though

Yeah, I'm only citing the novel to corroborate stuff the film clearly depicts. We see from the film alone that Rey and Ben are helpless against Sidious even before he's restored, since he manhandles them with the Force and they're helpless against him.

All the canon novelization does is literally spell it out with words what we literally see on-screen.

Same thing for Rey's amp at the end of the movie. Sidious says he's "all the Sith," but we don't see him commune with the spirits of any Sith. Instead, we see Rey try to establish communication with the ghosts of Jedi past at both the beginning and end of the film.

Then we see her experience a vision where she hears voices from Jedi past (including people she's never met before, like Mace Windu, Yoda, Kanan, Anakin, etc.).

Then she goes from being curbstomped by a weakened Sidious to being able to stand toe-to-toe with a restored Sidious. The amp is there, the novel just provides written words to corroborate.

Bashar Teg

imho, it kinda opens pandora's box in terms of off-screen evidence. all hell might break loose. people citing comic books and cartoons and vintage breakfast cereal boxes as evidence. dogs and cats living together. mass hysteria!

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Dominis
Palpatine be snatching up force users left and right: Dooku, Maul & Savage, Ben & Rey. He's also blitzed three jedi masters, nearly overwhelmed Yoda by throwing a bunch of senate vehicles, forced Ahsoka and Ezra to run despite being in another dimension.

He's arguably number one even before feeding off of Rey and Ben's dyad.

Movie-wise, he's definitely number one.

In fact, if we're discarding the corroboration by the novelization, it actually makes the case for Sidious stronger since he says the dyad will "restore the one true Emperor," not "empower the one true Emperor." messed

BestDebaterEver

If Rey is "all the Jedi" does that mean she was channeling the power of 10k+ Jedi, not even counting those from bygone eras?

And perhaps even future Jedi, assuming that time itself is a byproduct of the Force?

Pretty wild.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
If Rey is "all the Jedi" does that mean she was channeling the power of 10k+ Jedi, not even counting those from bygone eras?

And perhaps even future Jedi, assuming that time itself is a byproduct of the Force?

Pretty wild.

All means all, so I'd say so. At least all past Jedi.

Which is interesting because even if the movie presented evidence that Sidious is empowered by previous Sith (and remember: it doesn't, and there's no evidence in any of the movies that any Sith other than Sidious can transcend death), it's funny to think that Rey's amp still has a tremendous numerical advantage over Sheev's hypothetical Sith amp.

Remember: for a thousand years, there were only two Sith at any given time whereas there were tens of thousands of Jedi at any given time. ermm

Dominis

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
imho, it kinda opens pandora's box in terms of off-screen evidence. all hell might break loose. people citing comic books and cartoons and vintage breakfast cereal boxes as evidence. dogs and cats living together. mass hysteria!

He's just using the novel to point out what the movie was clearly meant to portray.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Movie-wise, he's definitely number one.

In fact, if we're discarding the corroboration by the novelization, it actually makes the case for Sidious stronger since he says the dyad will "restore the one true Emperor," not "empower the one true Emperor." messed

yup. all evidence points to restoration, not amplification. going to need tangible conflicting evidence to sway me from agreement.

like i said, i wish quan was was right. that would have at least resolved the "why didn't palp just do this from the start?" dilemma

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Dominis
He's just using the novel to point out what the movie was clearly meant to portray.

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HpAVSnVa8

This clip shows Sidious use the Force to manhandle Rey and Ben even as his rotten ass hangs from a gib.

Even while he monologues about the dyad, not even paying attention to them, looking at his own hands... the camera cuts back to them and they're trapped in a Force stasis field, unable to move. mmm

BestDebaterEver

Originally posted by The_Tempest
All means all, so I'd say so. At least all past Jedi.

Which is interesting because even if the movie presented evidence that Sidious is empowered by previous Sith (and remember: it doesn't, and there's no evidence in any of the movies that any Sith other than Sidious can transcend death), it's funny to think that Rey's amp still has a tremendous numerical advantage over Sheev's hypothetical Sith amp.

Remember: for a thousand years, there were only two Sith at any given time whereas there were tens of thousands of Jedi at any given time. So we're looking at 100,000+ Jedi spirits lending their strength to Rey.

TBF, with the assbeating Sheev put on her and Ben, I'd say that's a good number to even up the odds. Maybe if it was only 50,000 Jedi spirits she would have lost. laughing out loud

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by Dominis
He's just using the novel to point out what the movie was clearly meant to portray.

a film novelization is an adaptation based on the film. just like whatever comic books and cartoons serve as satellites to a particular canon

Galan007

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Presumably you're right, Galan. Because now that I think about it, if she were resurrected with the amp, wouldn't she have been able to resurrect Ben? As you know, healing/resurrecting in canon is all about the transference of life force. The more severe their injury, the more life force is required to to heal them. If they are dead, it requires all of your life force to bring them back: a life for a life.

So I guess that would depend if the power of all the Jedi bolstered Rey's life force as well(and I suppose it may have, given that prior to the amp she was already near-death and could barely even stand/breathe on her own.) So IF Rey still possessed all of that extra Jedi power when Ben resurrected her, she should have conceivably been able to then resurrect him without dying herself.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
yup. all evidence points to restoration, not amplification. going to need tangible conflicting evidence to sway me from agreement.

like i said, i wish quan was was right. that would have at least resolved the "why didn't palp just do this from the start?" dilemma

Sadly, Star Wars has rarely ever employed the logic of internal consistency, even before the Disney buyout. Jedi and Sith conveniently forgot about their powers all the time when the plot demanded it for the sake of drama.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
So we're looking at 100,000+ Jedi spirits lending their strength to Rey.

TBF, with the assbeating Sheev put on her and Ben, I'd say that's a good number to even up the odds. Maybe if it was only 50,000 Jedi spirits she would have lost. laughing out loud

Jesus Christ. When you put a number on it, it makes Rey's amp look incredibly lopsided even if we grant without evidence a similar Sith amp for Sidious. A hundred thousand Jedi vs. perhaps less than 100 Sith? messed

Originally posted by Galan007
As you know, healing/resurrecting in canon is all about the transference of life force. The more severe their injury, the more life force is required to to heal them. If they are dead, it requires all of your life force to bring them back: a life for a life.

So I guess that would depend if the power of all the Jedi bolstered Rey's life force as well(and I suppose it may have, given that prior to the amp she was already near-death and could barely even stand/breathe on her own.) So IF Rey still possessed all of that extra Jedi power when Ben resurrected her, she should have conceivably been able to then resurrect him without dying herself.

Great analysis and observation. I concur.

Dominis

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
a film novelization is an adaptation based on the film. just like whatever comic books and cartoons serve as satellites to a particular canon

Ok, but he's just using the novel to confirm his interpretation of the scene is the right one. It's the way the movie was meant to be interpreted.

Bashar Teg

it's a weird thread to have this debate in, since the film alone puts palp at #1 in raw force power, but i'll entertain:

a novelization author is free to add details, to fill in the holes left behind by screenwriting. in doing so, novelizations tend to embellish film canon, adding evidence where none existed (and perhaps was never even conceived of before)...especially with star wars films (all of them)

Psychotron

Originally posted by quanchi112
It does not. It just shows she had the necessary equipment and power to summon the other to defeat him.

Palpatine stole power from them. Undeniable. He lost despite the clear external amp from the dyad.

Ren was unbalanced, injured. He just killed his father. Couple that with two injuries her connection the force and we see why it was possible given those circumstances.

Vader never bested any respectable force user. Not once. He is exaggerated due to nostalgia.

He was taking three at a time on she struggled with just one a few times. Watch the scene Ren faces more and looks far better but I doubt you even noticed. You do not seem capable of assessing the facts objectively.

You ignore the context so continue to live in a fantasy world of your own making.

Ren is at the top unamped list.

Power she got from the spirits, yes. Before that she couldn't resist Sidious even with Kylo there to help.

He overpowered them before he fed off their dyad, that's right. So how does it make sense that Rey could beat him later without an amp? It doesn't. She was amped by Luke, Yoda, Anakin, Ahsoka, Ben and others.

I don't care how injured he was. When Luke injured Vader in ESB Vader immediately shut him down by cutting his hand off. That's the difference between a real Sith Lord and ***** like Ren.

Nonsense. He beat Dooku, he slaughtered countless Jedi during Order 66. He beat Ben Kenobi, who three-shotted Darth Maul.

Yet, Rey didn't need to be saved in that scene while, Ren did. It was sad how hard he was struggling against non-Force users.

Prove it. Argument yourself and your position.

Ren is not at the top of anything. He has been completely dominated by Snoke and Sidious. Rey has shown better Force powers than him too.

Dominis

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's a weird thread to have this debate in, since the film alone puts palp at #1 in raw force power, but i'll entertain:

a novelization author is free to add details, to fill in the holes left behind by screenwriting. in doing so, novelizations tend to embellish film canon, adding evidence where none existed (and perhaps was never even conceived of before)...especially with star wars films (all of them)

He's not using added details. Like, he's not bringing up feats or anything that wasn't shown in the film. He's merely confirming that his interpretation of the scene is the right one. If your interpretation is different then it goes against what the film was meant to portray.

Surtur

Darth Revan could murder Kylo and Rey and Vader and Luke all at once.

So could the exile.

Bashar Teg

okay, let's back up and look at the big picture of star wars novel vs film.

here are the differences between ANH, and it's original novelization/adaptation (from wookiepedia):

During the battle aboard the Tantive IV, the stormtroopers drop through the ceiling, rather than charging through a door.

Before Leia Organa is captured, she kills two stormtroopers, instead of only one.

Before Grand Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader enter the conference room scene, there are eight Imperial Senators and officers around the table. In the film, there are only seven officers. During the scene, Vader uses the Force to summon a cup from the table to his hand.

Skywalker's X-34 landspeeder has an enclosed cockpit unlike the open cockpit seen in the film.

The hilt of Skywalker's lightsaber is described as having a jeweled hilt.

In the novel, Tarkin is present during Organa's torture. In the film, Organa does not encounter Tarkin until she is taken to the Death Star's Overbridge.

Chewbacca is described as having bright, yellow eyes.

In the cantina, Skywalker is haggled by a trio of individuals. Kenobi cuts a smaller alien in half and cuts off the arm of another. Ponda Baba is described as having multiple eyes.

Jabba is described as a fat biped with an ugly, shaggy skull and jowls. His scars are said to be a sign of his ferocious reputation in combat.

After the destruction of Alderaan, Vader reports that Alderaan had possessed defensive systems "as strong as that of the Empire."

In the novel, Obi-Wan does not feel Alderaan's destruction through the Force.

Stormtrooper TK-421 is identified as THX-1138.

The officer commanding the detention block is killed activating an alarm rather than drawing a blaster.

When the gang dives into the garbage chute, Han Solo dives in before Skywalker.

The garbage chamber's number is 366-17891 instead of 3263827.

During the Battle of Yavin, Skywalker, Biggs Darklighter, and Wedge Antilles are all in Blue Squadron; in the film, they are in Red Squadron. Skywalker also makes two attack runs through the Death Star trench. When Skywalker learns that Darklighter had been killed, his eyes begin to water and he reflects, "'We're a couple of shooting stars, Biggs' he whispered huskily, 'and we'll never be stopped.'

At the novel's end, Organa gives Chewbacca a medal.

Surtur

There is a comic too where they say he didn't get a medal at the same time as Han cuz Leia couldn't reach him since he was too tall.

Not kidding.

Surtur

https://i.stack.imgur.com/JLGTe.jpg

Lol...what a dick move. Couldn't stand on a f*cking stool in front of people?

Surtur

Why is Chewy depicted as a red bigfoot? Where is his face? I can sort of see a mouth. Where are his eyes?

quanchi112

Originally posted by Psychotron
Power she got from the spirits, yes. Before that she couldn't resist Sidious even with Kylo there to help.

He overpowered them before he fed off their dyad, that's right. So how does it make sense that Rey could beat him later without an amp? It doesn't. She was amped by Luke, Yoda, Anakin, Ahsoka, Ben and others.

I don't care how injured he was. When Luke injured Vader in ESB Vader immediately shut him down by cutting his hand off. That's the difference between a real Sith Lord and ***** like Ren.

Nonsense. He beat Dooku, he slaughtered countless Jedi during Order 66. He beat Ben Kenobi, who three-shotted Darth Maul.

Yet, Rey didn't need to be saved in that scene while, Ren did. It was sad how hard he was struggling against non-Force users.

Prove it. Argument yourself and your position.

Ren is not at the top of anything. He has been completely dominated by Snoke and Sidious. Rey has shown better Force powers than him too. No, she was never shown to gain power just inspiration. Palpatine amped through the dyad.

She beat him when she did. Ren knocked Rey out in TFA. Later he did not does this mean he could force push ko her at any moment in time. Slap yourself for being so stupid. To catch anyone with the force you need to catch them off guard.

Ren was shot by chewies weapon and was also grazed. Far worse than a shoulder graze alone. Ren also was weakened emotionally by killing his father.

In a clone wars episode one single droid had Anakin beaten but he needed a clone to save him. laughing out loud

It was so laughable. I wish you could see it. Disney Says **** you Anakin one last time.

Ren took on more thus it made sense. Ren is her superior. She struggled with one he was taking on 3. 3>1. If you cannot grasp the easy to He too o methanols she did hence why I was harder just log out.

Ben survived the fall. Ren never faced Palpatine. Lucky for him wait he still died to Rey who Ren dominated.

laughing out loud

steverules_2

Originally posted by Surtur
https://i.stack.imgur.com/JLGTe.jpg

Lol...what a dick move. Couldn't stand on a f*cking stool in front of people?

He got a medal on ROS too, they just hand it to him

Surtur

Yeah that also was a b*tch move. Just randomly hand him it. Nobody saw him rewarded except some creepy alien thing. They seem to think this makes up for the snub.

It don't.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's a weird thread to have this debate in, since the film alone puts palp at #1 in raw force power, but i'll entertain

Do you agree that amped!Rey is number two, then?

relentless1

1. Darth Sidious
2. Rey (unfortunately)
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Yoda
5. Darth Vader

BrolyBlack

Originally posted by relentless1
1. Darth Sidious
2. Rey (unfortunately)
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Yoda
5. Darth Vader

Look at this sexist pig right here

BrolyBlack

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Do you agree that amped!Rey is number two, then?

Explain how Rey was amped

The_Tempest

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Explain how Rey was amped

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, I'm only citing the novel to corroborate stuff the film clearly depicts. We see from the film alone that Rey and Ben are helpless against Sidious even before he's restored, since he manhandles them with the Force and they're helpless against him.

All the canon novelization does is literally spell it out with words what we literally see on-screen.

Same thing for Rey's amp at the end of the movie. Sidious says he's "all the Sith," but we don't see him commune with the spirits of any Sith. Instead, we see Rey try to establish communication with the ghosts of Jedi past at both the beginning and end of the film.

Then we see her experience a vision where she hears voices from Jedi past (including people she's never met before, like Mace Windu, Yoda, Kanan, Anakin, etc.).

Then she goes from being curbstomped by a weakened Sidious to being able to stand toe-to-toe with a restored Sidious. The amp is there, the novel just provides written words to corroborate.

Galan007

Palpatine is definitely #1. The power he held was clearly his alone, and not some one-off/temporary amp.

Rey /w/ Jedi amp is #2. She at least had enough power in that moment to momentarily shield herself from 'omni-Sith' Palpatine's lightning and deflect it back onto him.

Not going to bother trying to rank any others, because sticking to "films only" in the new canon system seems silly to be. All material published since 2014 is on equal footing with the films, and really has to be considered when trying to put a list like this together with any sort of accuracy.

Bashar Teg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Do you agree that amped!Rey is number two, then?

I agree that she was second only to palpatine while amped, I'm not sure she qualifies as a rightful #2; due to said amplification

Dominis

The power of two were no match for the one true Emperor!

BrolyBlack

Originally posted by Dominis
The power of two were no match for the one true Emperor!

What rock you crawl out from?

relentless1

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Look at this sexist pig right here

how so ya ****in captain? lol sticking up for women won't get ya laid bro laughing

quanchi112

Originally posted by Dominis
The power of two were no match for the one true Emperor! Palpatine needed a dyad amp and still was defeated by Rey alone. Unamped it is Ren and Rey tied but Ren being more skilled than she was. In terms of formidabilty Ren is at the top.

Sidious is fl or bust. Kinda sad.

The_Tempest

Originally posted by Galan007
Palpatine is definitely #1. The power he held was clearly his alone, and not some one-off/temporary amp.

Rey /w/ Jedi amp is #2. She at least had enough power in that moment to momentarily shield herself from 'omni-Sith' Palpatine's lightning and deflect it back onto him.

Not going to bother trying to rank any others, because sticking to "films only" in the new canon system seems silly to be. All material published since 2014 is on equal footing with the films, and really has to be considered when trying to put a list like this together with any sort of accuracy.

Agreed with the above, but in this case the lack of novelization doesn't muddy the waters. The book simply puts in words what the movie puts on screen.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I agree that she was second only to palpatine while amped, I'm not sure she qualifies as a rightful #2; due to said amplification

Fair enough. If Rey isn't #2, then I'd probably go with Yoda or Mace.