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can the cw duo take over the verses (everyone's included in the verse)

It's kind of hard to judge the Spectre. Because he has the best feat of anyone here by far IMO (creating a new universe), but he had to use all his power and sacrifice himself to do it.

Full-power Anti-Monitor is going to be a serious threat though, considering he can casually destroy entire planets without assistance.

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It's a tall order though, due to the sheer numbers they are up against.

Also, technically speaking, the MCU should be able to replicate the means by which the Anti-Monitor was eventually defeated (the whole infinite shrinking thing). But whether they will actually think of doing so is another question altogether.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's kind of hard to judge the Spectre. Because he has the best feat of anyone here by far IMO (creating a new universe), but he had to use all his power and sacrifice himself to do it.


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It's a tall order though, due to the sheer numbers they are up against.

How can you say that is his feat?
He needed the parragons to "fan the flame" of that creation feat.
It's therefore not really a solo feat, one that you can say is purely under his own power.

Originally posted by beatboks
How can you say that is his feat?
He needed the parragons to "fan the flame" of that creation feat.
It's therefore not really a solo feat, one that you can say is purely under his own power.

IIRC, they used a page from the Book of Destiny to shape the energy, but the actual power for it came from Spectre Oliver when he shot the beam into the sky while grappling Mobius. At least that's how I interpreted the scene. But anyway, that's kind of my point. He's too vague to properly quantify unless we scale him off Anti-Monitor, who he went head to head with for a bit. Because his other feats, like unlocking Barry's ultimate potential during Crisis, doesn't really translate to a fight. Hence why I said he is hard to judge.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IIRC, they used a page from the Book of Destiny to shape the energy, but the actual power for it came from Spectre Oliver when he shot the beam into the sky while grappling Mobius. At least that's how I interpreted the scene. But anyway, that's kind of my point. He's too vague to properly quantify unless we scale him off Anti-Monitor, who he went head to head with for a bit. Because his other feats, like unlocking Barry's ultimate potential during Crisis, doesn't really translate to a fight. Hence why I said he is hard to judge.

There was the whole plot point that Ollie told them as parragons they would have to fan the flames. When asked what that meant he said they would know when the time came. They did and they knew they had t o gaze upon Ollie to fan the flames.

Why do you think hes one second giving everything just to hold his own va AM, then the next when they start gazing on him he can suddnly do that AND start a blast to restart the multiverse?

It was a clearly stated point of the plot that it wasnt just him. I dont see why so many on forum posts ignore that plot point.

Nothing you posted contradicts the idea that they reshaped the energy he produced. Because he was already shooting the beam into the sky before the Paragons shifted their attention to him. If you don't believe me, feel free to re-watch the scene.

What's more, I have already pointed out that I consider the feat hard to properly quantify and therefore suspect to use in a thread like this. My very first comment regarding him was that he is hard to judge, which is why I later said the best bet is probably to scale off Mobius.

And I am not sure who the "so many" are, as no one else has even posted in this thread, nor do I recall anyone making any comments regarding it in the actual Crisis crossover thread, or CW Spectre featuring in any other thread here, in MvF, for anyone to say anything.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Nothing you posted contradicts the idea that they reshaped the energy he produced. Because he was already shooting the beam into the sky before the Paragons shifted their attention to him. If you don't believe me, feel free to re-watch the scene.

What's more, I have already pointed out that I consider the feat hard to properly quantify and therefore suspect to use in a thread like this. My very first comment regarding him was that he is hard to judge, which is why I later said the best bet is probably to scale off Mobius.

And I am not sure who the "so many" are, as no one else has even posted in this thread, nor do I recall anyone making any comments regarding it in the actual Crisis crossover thread, or CW Spectre featuring in any other thread here, in MvF, for anyone to say anything.

He doesn't have the feet of creating a new Universe, under his own power. Its this incorect statement that I see thrown out on threads on numberous forums all over the internet (I said forums not this thread)

In Ollie's own words he lit the spark and they fanned the fire. Barry even reiterated as much after the paragons saw his energy gaze upon beating his shadow wraiths. Said gaze had meen going for about 20 seconds of scree. Time and not doing much. His gaze into the sky was the lighting the spark. The explosion of him and anti-monitor after the paragons gaze Upon Him Fanning the flames and the energy billowing from it was the flames that caused the creation of the new universe.

If i light a match to start a bon fire, the match doesnt have the power of the inferno of the full bonfire, just as CW Spectre dodnt show the universal power I see claimed for him on CV, CBR, here and many other vs forums that pit him against someone else.

It was a point of the plot that they used the last page of the book of destiny to fan the spark he lit and it was the combination of these things that started the new universe.

I really don't care what other people on other sites say. That has nothing to do with KMC. To be perfectly blunt, as far as I am personally concerned, the only thing sites like CV are really good for is hijacking feat gifs, which, admittedly, CV is pretty handy for. It's virtually always the one that pops up under things like Google Images if you're looking for something specific. And no one is using it to claim he is universal-tier to match him against other universal-tier opponents or anything like that. Beyond anything else, the fact that he died makes it a one-off feat and thus not a level that can be consistently maintained. So, he doesn't qualify as universal anyway. At least not in my book.

Again, that's your personal visual interpretation of what happened. Could it have been the case? Sure. But that's not how it came across to me. I've already described how the scene appeared to me and how those statements fit within the context. Anyway, this back and forth over something that I have already repeatedly stated I don't consider valid for combat because you disagree with my interpretation doesn't really serve any purpose. You have your view. I have mine. Going back and forth on it won't change anything.

And it doesn't seem like you came here to discuss the actual fight (judging by your complete lack of comment on it so far), so I am out before this turns into another endless loop thread of people just talking at each other over something fairly irrelevant to the actual match result.

I think spectre and anti-monitor crush

Eh, I still think Spectre is very much an unknown quantity, for the reasons already stated. But Anti-Monitor could probably kill a sizable chunk of the opposing team on his own, assuming he uses his powers competently. They wrote him pretty stupidly during the final battle. He was using his forcefields and floored everyone with an AOE energy attack... And then just started fighting like a retard, for some reason deciding that growing and making himself a much bigger target while mostly flailing his arms around was a better strategy.

The problem is the sheer numbers against them, which also includes beings like Dormammu.

Basically as long as he doesn't fight like a TV final supervillain that of course has to fight stupidly so the good guys can win. Shouldn't be an issue without the guaranteed plot armor of the finale gives off.

Originally posted by KingD19
Basically as long as he doesn't fight like a TV final supervillain that of course has to fight stupidly so the good guys can win. Shouldn't be an issue without the guaranteed plot armor of the finale gives off.

Lol him and Fox Apocalypse should form a club. They even look kind of similar.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Eh, I still think Spectre is very much an unknown quantity, for the reasons already stated. But Anti-Monitor could probably kill a sizable chunk of the opposing team on his own, assuming he uses his powers competently. They wrote him pretty stupidly during the final battle. He was using his forcefields and floored everyone with an AOE energy attack... And then just started fighting like a retard, for some reason deciding that growing and making himself a much bigger target while mostly flailing his arms around was a better strategy.

The problem is the sheer numbers against them, which also includes beings like Dormammu.
Well, Spectre lived in the Presence's dimension, which makes him multi-dimensional. Should be enough.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Lol him and Fox Apocalypse should form a club. They even look kind of similar.

The "I swear we're not Jobbers" club? Comprised of eons old, bald men with weird semi-functional armor/clothes and wonky head gear?

Lol yep, pretty much. Apocalypse should have killed most of the X-Men fighting him long before Jean did her thing. Which is also another part of the broken X-Men continuity, now that I think about it. Because she seemingly went Phoenix.

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But then only actually gets the Phoenix Force in the next film.

Jean went Phoenix mode at least once in every movie except the first one I believe. The Dam in 2, all of 3, etc...

Originally posted by CriticalShaft
Well, Spectre lived in the Presence's dimension, which makes him multi-dimensional. Should be enough.

Enough for what though? I mean if we're using non-combat feats and statements, then Dormammu is multiversal, going by Wong's "invade every universe" comment at 5:17:

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Personally, I am not a fan of using those kinds of feats and/or statements. Because they don't give us enough detail to really quantify things properly. Which is why, for example, I never use the numerous "world-killer" or "can destroy the world" etc. statements when debating characters like Legion. Because even if we take the statement at face value, we still don't know how much time, effort etc. it would take to do so. Because there is obviously a huge difference between a character who can casually split a planet in half in like 3 seconds versus a character who might need to concentrate hard for half an hour to do so.

And speaking of, is Fox limited to the main X-Men continuity, or does it also include the Legion-verse for this? Because beyond characters like David himself, the 4D Time Avatars are also pretty OP, considering they essentially are sentient embodiments of time itself who can move across time, view potential future time-lines and influence/alter certain points if they deem it necessary.

MCU and Fox verse are too much. Thanos solos.