Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

No prep
No outside help
No amps
Random Encounter
Both Base
Who wins

https://i.postimg.cc/626rNWBH/de20d5d0b4b3f0f57b9747d6e5c79a98.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/2qQsKw5Q/rfd.jpg

obsidian

Am curious to see beatbok's take.

What differentiates SS "black" from standard SS.

I can see ways that Todd could be Norin, but I'd still say standard SS takes a slight majority. Especially when its stated at "base" and if we assume in character.

The wins Todd can take are for the same reason that SS has lost to the likes of Mephisto etc. Todd's ability to affect the soul for which Norin has no defense. The thing is while its in Todd's powerset its not really his opening move but ost of the time. If Todd was in his evil version (slightly madened by the darkness he sees in others - like when he took onnthe JSA or tore his father and Kyle Raynor apart) then he'd take a slight majority because in this mindset soul attacks pretty much are an opening move (so Standard SS's speed wouldn't come into play)

So depends on how black compares to normal

He's darker.

But also, he's completely intangible. Can't physically touch others, and others can't touch him.

However, he can still blast with the Power Cosmic. Can also possess people like Deadman, but that relies on them being conscious.

Thats interesting, in shadow form Todd cant be touched either. Based on what he did to Ian Karkul he can however touch the intangible. That might mean that a percieved advantage SSB believes he has is not in play.

It might be interesting to see them battle for each others soul.
The cosmic energy thing shouldnt matter, when Todd was shielding his father and the older JSA from Kang and the souls from hiroshima (in the JSA Brownestone) Courtney Whitmores cosmic staff amped after absorbing the city grid couldnt penetrate (even while Alan Scot blasted from inside). In the Stargirl/Silver Surfer cross over it was shown her tods energy and Norin's was the same.

I personally think in a battlezone where I'm using Obsidian's powerset I could show Todd taking a majority from SS by operating at his highs and excluding CIS. In a standard fight where CIS is in play and they are acting in character it depends on the motivation

There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress

Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.

He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56b

Not to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9

Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZP

He can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3

Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PY

He can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.

The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.

FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDM

The notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress cancerverse captain marvell hit him in his intangible form and hurt him.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
cancerverse captain marvell hit him in his intangible form and hurt him.

lol what?

Originally posted by beatboks
Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.

He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56b

Not to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9

Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZP

He can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3

Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PY

He can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.

The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.

FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDM

The notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.

I'll address this in a few

WE CAN BZ this if you want cause Obsidian is NOT beating Surfer at all

Obsidian

@Titan

cancer verse captain marvel was only able to hit surfer due to utilizing life/magical energy...
You would had known that if you actually read the comic

Originally posted by beatboks
Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.

He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56b

Not to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9

Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZP

He can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3

Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PY

He can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.

The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.

FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDM

The notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.

Being born of the star heart and the shadow void. IF Obsidian utilize part of the star heart's energy , yes he can hit surfer, BUT WE have not see him do that unlike jade, he uses the void's instead.

obsidian doesn't soul posses, what he does is cover people with the void and control them.
He did it to hourman too ..Hourman doesn't have a soul ..Those wouldn't work on surfer.

This is why PPL roast you

DOES Obsidian have magical energy?

If not, than it's completely invalid, like why would YOU even bring that up

Ah you're right Titan, Surfer can indeed be hurt even when in intangible form. Good catch.

imagine someone who's 46 years old,

with 0 battlezone win and 100 battlezone loses

made a thread with a winner in mind

gets completely demolished by the other side

has the audacity to challenge his superior to a BZ

a ship that punched through time-space fabric did nothing to him

https://i.postimg.cc/4HG3VYZ6/ayes.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/bDckJ0CL/lkj.jpg

Is Obsidian magical? And when did being hurt by magic automatically mean that it's a loss? Is Obsidian immune to damage?

Originally posted by Stoic
Is Obsidian magical? And when did being hurt by magic automatically mean that it's a loss? Is Obsidian immune to damage?

Obsidian isn't, but Titan was helpfully correcting me when I said he was immune to all physical damage. I am grateful for learning something new.

Anyway, Obsidian is also intangible, with the side effect that he can still affect intangible beings. It's weird.

my fault let me watch out before you have another temper tantrum, might get harmed by your internet swear words ugh!!!

Thanos sucks btw xD

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Obsidian isn't, but Titan was helpfully correcting me when I said he was immune to all physical damage. I am grateful for learning something new.

Anyway, Obsidian is also intangible, with the side effect that he can still affect intangible beings. It's weird.

Then I guess this boils down to which one has the better feats. Surfer's mind and soul were tempered by Galactus unless that was removed.

Just recently he shielded his mind from Galactus himself.

obsidian's shadow form is so haxx makes him beyond space time, intangible iand immortal. plus crazy powers like possession. all else fail he can just teleport people to shadowlands, his darkness manipulation is insane, he one shot kyle rayner and alan scott before (both hh), blinds gog, his darkness manipulation is also on planetary scale, he can cover the entire earth in darkness. if the battle take place in the darkness of space Obsidian can literally be everywhere at once

LOL show me where I lied at

i said "there's no way he's harming black"

THEN YOU brought a showing of BLACK being harmed by.... MAGICAL energies WHICH Obsidian doesn't use

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress

"There's no way Obsidian is hurting Black"

is the same as Black not being able to be harmed by ANYONE, your comprehension skills is garbage son

If I had said "Black can't be harmed by anyone" than you would have a point but i said Black can't be harmed by Obsidian, and you used him being harmed by magical energies to.... prove that I LIED LOL?

leave the thread

MAGIC and DARKNESS are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT energy source, you ACTUALLY just said that. Imagine using magic as a case to "harm" surfer when that's not even the thing Obsidian use in the first place lmaoo.

this is embarrassing

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress

Then again this is the same kid that thinks not being able to harm a single individual means he can't be harmed by anybody LOL

Yes , Life energy weaponized by magic

And obsidian's power isn't in anyway similar to that ..
In a simpler word , his power comes from his connection to the shadow realm /shadow void...
Accessing it through the rift between both realities ..

THEY'RE not the same

The shadow will not touch surfer let alone take over him and it can be countered with energy attacks which suffer posses in abundance ..
https://i.postimg.cc/bGmd5HPJ/ress.jpg

and duh it's is an "ancient force"
Of course , the shadow force is an ancient force but IT ISN'T "life energy" that's WHAT you're ignoring here

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is why PPL roast you

DOES Obsidian have magical energy?

If not, than it's completely invalid, like why would YOU even bring that up
Boy Thing's touch burned him.

Titan, its not just "Ancient Energy " , its "Life Energy" ...

Counter to darkness is light ..
And that's the same case for obsidian ..
And surfer is that guy that can create a star

https://i.postimg.cc/bG44qrQh/cer.jpg

Surfer holds every single advantage in this battle. Versatility, destructive power and even strength if we look at fts.

its ONLY the dc stans that think otherwise

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Being born of the star heart and the shadow void. IF Obsidian utilize part of the star heart's energy , yes he can hit surfer, BUT WE have not see him do that unlike jade, he uses the void's instead.

obsidian doesn't soul posses, what he does is cover people with the void and control them.
He did it to hourman too ..Hourman doesn't have a soul ..Those wouldn't work on surfer.

1. Obsidian does use part of the starheart energy. We have seen that several times. When thenstarheart possessed him, when he and Jade merged due to it vs starheart controlled Alan, and 5 other times. It was also stated as a reason that Eclipso couldnt control him when he did all others linked to the shadow realm.

2. Obsidian does soul possess. His power comes from the shadow energy absorbed by Alan when Ian Karkul was exploded by the combined blast of Spectre, Dr Fate, and Starman. Karkull had the power to absorb souls. Using this power he was able to see into the future and know decades worth of America's future. Its bdcause of this "absorbed life energy" that bathed the JSA that they all had such longnlives and were still acrive in the 80s 90's and 00's.

Part of Todd's power is the ability to absorb soul and life energy. Its what gives him (and Karkull) their clarevoyance. So if SSB has been harmed by life energy than hes very much susceptible to Todd who wields the same.

Originally posted by Stoic
Is Obsidian magical? And when did being hurt by magic automatically mean that it's a loss? Is Obsidian immune to damage?

Yes Todd is magical
And hes he is immune to damage. He went throughba suicidal period due to the fact that he sees the darkness in the soul of everyone he sees and couldnt kill himself, despite many efforts.

https://m.imgur.com/mnO5vmC

You know Surfer can also attack the soul and affect intangible beings.
I find this two are quite similar, only Surfer has higher end feat.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Titan, its not just "Ancient Energy " , its "Life Energy" ...

Counter to darkness is light ..
And that's the same case for obsidian ..
And surfer is that guy that can create a star

https://i.postimg.cc/bG44qrQh/cer.jpg Ignore it all you want. Obsidians power was altered after a battle with a sorcerer. In other words after he was exposed to magical energies.

In All Star Squadron Annual 3 we have it clearly shown that Karkull uses magical energy. The energy of Karkull merged with the starheart is where Obsidian's power comes from

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ JEI8ofii5JW1pHJFouAiJEZ0Qpcrtlx1mwPDamllPFvTM6K91K
q9xAUb5L32HLsnkoK_lKX_PbloYw=s1600

He explained that he absorbed time. This was how he saw the future. Something Todd can also do to a limited degree.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6YYICMkflfI2q5Hfxq3c7wuFEeCLuP-5coayqxPrLuhBXG4Pqo60NRK7X8TsIqWp6xoDE-RHlPnWZg=s1600

Spectre explained that he had absorbed life energy
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ R9jXDZb3ZoLH02ifwofNDozSB6K94xPJUIstqSCyn1fZAdpERs
Vps3vffmT9QkM4DeYlG6QZJ9pQaw=s1600

In JSA #8 Karkull wants his "fill of the souls of Milwaukee before going on"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p-1sHTrg5_o/VxWb0Wm0x6I/AAAAAAAALWU/IzupwpYE5hsXenVRsear9JBA2TTYGQoPQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg

The next page Todd casually absorbs ian's soul

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kq0pN4TsenU/VxWb0mq3MmI/AAAAAAAALWU/sg6l9HOVY2IB4PzTU6RZ98HOrYSe6faTACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO019_w.jpg

Originally posted by beatboks
In All Star Squadron Annual 3 we have it clearly shown that Karkull uses magical energy. The energy of Karkull merged with the starheart is where Obsidian's power comes from

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ JEI8ofii5JW1pHJFouAiJEZ0Qpcrtlx1mwPDamllPFvTM6K91K
q9xAUb5L32HLsnkoK_lKX_PbloYw=s1600

He explained that he absorbed time. This was how he saw the future. Something Todd can also do to a limited degree.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6YYICMkflfI2q5Hfxq3c7wuFEeCLuP-5coayqxPrLuhBXG4Pqo60NRK7X8TsIqWp6xoDE-RHlPnWZg=s1600

Spectre explained that he had absorbed life energy
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ R9jXDZb3ZoLH02ifwofNDozSB6K94xPJUIstqSCyn1fZAdpERs
Vps3vffmT9QkM4DeYlG6QZJ9pQaw=s1600

In JSA #8 Karkull wants his "fill of the souls of Milwaukee before going on"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p-1sHTrg5_o/VxWb0Wm0x6I/AAAAAAAALWU/IzupwpYE5hsXenVRsear9JBA2TTYGQoPQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg

The next page Todd casually absorbs ian's soul

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kq0pN4TsenU/VxWb0mq3MmI/AAAAAAAALWU/sg6l9HOVY2IB4PzTU6RZ98HOrYSe6faTACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO019_w.jpg I remembered it was something along those lines.

Since some of the All Str Squadron Annual images dont work heres the issue

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/All-Star-Squadron/Annual-3?id=40245

On page 32 Fate traces the magical energy of a storm created and controlled by karkull

On page 34 Karkull tells us he absorbed time

On page 37 Spectre tells us he absorbed that time from the lives of random people in the future.

Originally posted by beatboks
Second attempt at first 2 images

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ JEI8ofii5JW1pHJFouAiJEZ0Qpcrtlx1mwPDamllPFvTM6K91K
q9xAUb5L32HLsnkoK_lKX_PbloYw=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ JEI8ofii5JW1pHJFouAiJEZ0Qpcrtlx1mwPDamllPFvTM6K91K
q9xAUb5L32HLsnkoK_lKX_PbloYw=s1600


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ R9jXDZb3ZoLH02ifwofNDozSB6K94xPJUIstqSCyn1fZAdpERs
Vps3vffmT9QkM4DeYlG6QZJ9pQaw=s1600
Still not work.......

thanks for the scans in this thread beatbok

I definitely enjoyed characters like shade or obsidian

Originally posted by MrMind
obsidian's shadow form is so haxx makes him beyond space time, intangible iand immortal. plus crazy powers like possession. all else fail he can just teleport people to shadowlands, his darkness manipulation is insane, he one shot kyle rayner and alan scott before (both hh), blinds gog, his darkness manipulation is also on planetary scale, he can cover the entire earth in darkness. if the battle take place in the darkness of space Obsidian can literally be everywhere at once

I like the sound of obsidian. Your description reminds me of a variant between the Surfer, and Void of the WildCATs. The Surfer can heal, or destroy entire planets as well with the PC. In Marvel, the PC is as essential to the fabric of the physical universe as the Speed Force is concerning essential universal powers in DCU.

In JSA issue 7 Karkull also confirms he can feed on souls

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RNX_pP2BejE/VxWZFpnfPTI/AAAAAAAALBo/jZHo7XRhhnItZ0tWIL3yBf3kzWz7274mACCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO017.jpg

Same issur confirmed that Obsidian's powers come from the shadow energy of Karkull absorbed by Alan.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zlkSUR2w1yw/VxWZF7gKoXI/AAAAAAAALBo/WCBd8q-Q784qYf7JMZB6mPfCvJtcCgtzQCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg

always thought this scene was super cool, just covering the whole planet in darkness

https://i.imgur.com/iSZafI2.png

Originally posted by beatboks
1. Obsidian does use part of the starheart energy. We have seen that several times. When thenstarheart possessed him, when he and Jade merged due to it vs starheart controlled Alan, and 5 other times. It was also stated as a reason that Eclipso couldnt control him when he did all others linked to the shadow realm.

2. Obsidian does soul possess. His power comes from the shadow energy absorbed by Alan when Ian Karkul was exploded by the combined blast of Spectre, Dr Fate, and Starman. Karkull had the power to absorb souls. Using this power he was able to see into the future and know decades worth of America's future. Its bdcause of this "absorbed life energy" that bathed the JSA that they all had such longnlives and were still acrive in the 80s 90's and 00's.

Part of Todd's power is the ability to absorb soul and life energy. Its what gives him (and Karkull) their clarevoyance. So if SSB has been harmed by life energy than hes very much susceptible to Todd who wields the same.

He's linked to both star heart and shadow realm ..
But he only utilizes the shadow realm's power , he uses shadow force unlike jade that channels the star heart directly ..

I know all this info ..
Ian claimed .. He feed on shadows , feed on souls .. And it is a gradual process
But its not literally , he even claimed he fed on Mr Rice's soul... He did that by taking him into the shadow realm ...Even Mr rice was still alive after all his "feed on soul"
How will that happen when he can't touch surfer ?...
LETS not act like its the same .. They absorbed "shadow energy" not life ..
Todd and Ian manipulates the shadow force not life force:
https://i.postimg.cc/SJ6QTpkx/pos.jpg

Todd isn't immune to all types of damage most especially light energy blast ...
SURFER can do that


IT wasn't because of "absorbed life energy " that gave the JL long lives.
It's shadow energy like the scan said , but before that
Ian captured time into his shadow form.
That was the same shadow form that its energy rained on the league ...
IT'S NOT life energy, its shadow energy (just with time captured in it )
And the time now resides in the league.
It isn't life energy
https://i.postimg.cc/MfT6vngP/yfa.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
He's linked to both star heart and shadow realm ..
But he only utilizes the shadow realm's power , he uses shadow force unlike jade that channels the star heart directly ..

I know all this info ..
Ian claimed .. He feed on shadows , feed on souls .. And it is a gradual process
But its not literally , he even claimed he fed on Mr Rice's soul... He did that by taking him into the shadow realm ...Even Mr rice was still alive after all his "feed on soul"
How will that happen when he can't touch surfer ?...
LETS not act like its the same .. They absorbed "shadow energy" not life ..
Todd and Ian manipulates the shadow force not life force:
https://i.postimg.cc/SJ6QTpkx/pos.jpg

Todd isn't immune to all types of damage most especially light energy blast ...
SURFER can do that


IT wasn't because of "absorbed life energy " that gave the JL long lives.
It's shadow energy like the scan said , but before that
Ian captured time into his shadow form.
That was the same shadow form that its energy rained on the league ...
IT'S NOT life energy, its shadow energy (just with time captured in it )
And the time now resides in the league.
It isn't life energy
https://i.postimg.cc/MfT6vngP/yfa.jpg

You know but what you say is contradicted by the evidence.

In the Darkest Night arc Todd used starheart energy. During the time he took Alan to the starheart realm he did also. The starheart itself told Alan that it could control Todd because his shadow power was linked to the starheart.

The JSA were flooded with the life energy that Karkull absorbed. Energy he gained from future souls. This energy gave them longer lives and greater vitality for those extended years. Its literally why they are still active adventueres in their 90's 100's.

Ian cant "touch" anyone yet affects them.
Obsidian as I've already shown has multiple incidents of affecting things that cant be touched.
Never mind the fact that Todd has controlled people without ever coming into contact with them, from a distance at that.

Your arguments simply aren't logical

Lmao

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao

Did i make a funny?
Sorry if so, I didnt check b4 posting so its probably illiterate

No no, it's just that I KNEW this thread would be perfect for you. No one else knows Obsidian like you.

Originally posted by beatboks
You know but what you say is contradicted by the evidence.

In the Darkest Night arc Todd used starheart energy. During the time he took Alan to the starheart realm he did also. The starheart itself told Alan that it could control Todd because his shadow power was linked to the starheart.

The JSA were flooded with the life energy that Karkull absorbed. Energy he gained from future souls. This energy gave them longer lives and greater vitality for those extended years. Its literally why they are still active adventueres in their 90's 100's.

Ian cant "touch" anyone yet affects them.
Obsidian as I've already shown has multiple incidents of affecting things that cant be touched.
Never mind the fact that Todd has controlled people without ever coming into contact with them, from a distance at that.

Your arguments simply aren't logical

COMPLETELY false. Let me debunk you again, I'M the RIGHT ONE. You got the RIGHT one today son

1. Spectre never said he absorbed life energy , spectre said he stole time from random begins in the future ..

Spectre:
"He stole time from the future"

READ:

https://i.postimg.cc/jCFZdGyX/de.jpg

EVEN FATE confirmed it
Have read this books
Fate said , "he captured time "
READ:
https://i.postimg.cc/p9RgYgGj/read.jpg


\YES ian can feed on soul.. But I already addressed this before ..
He NEEDS to take the victim into the shadow realm first, what he wouldn't be able to do to surfer , and go there to feed on him
The same mr rice , made it clear HE DOES IT GRADUALLY.. He doesn't just look at you and take your soul.

PROOF:
https://i.postimg.cc/DJHhgxbK/kss.jpg


The scan you posted , didn't mention anything like that
https://i.postimg.cc/Jt0cHPqz/men.jpg


How will he get surfer into the shadow realm ..?
Read what rice said ..
"Every time he comes here (into the shadow realm), he takes a little more of me"
They don't die or anything , it isn't literal straight soul absorption ..
Gradually, That's how he feeds on soul , which wouldn't help here

READ:

https://i.postimg.cc/NyhBmJmq/grd.jpg



These are the scans
PLEASE read them and show me where it was stated todd absorbed his soul ..
He absorbed him into himself/shadowland ...
They've ALWAYS been able to do that:
https://i.postimg.cc/YjFNxjJ5/thev.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/jC6vyZnV/rey.jpg

Todd didn't absorb ian's soul
He absorbed ian into himself ...
He became greater/Became the shadowlands itself, he said ian opened a bottomless pit when he tapped into his darkness and now he's the shadowlands.... What the hell are you talking about lmao

AND you're ignoring the fact surfer can hurt him
You've all forgotten that this shadow force users counter is light blasts ..
UV light , even green lantern's light , star girls shooting star worked too. Don't make me pull the scans up, i swear its like these dudes don't read for shit



A star that lit up a world while he had little power left ..
Even his power blasts will work too, But let's ignore how I posted the scan

Surfer can DESTROY his astral self too

https://i.postimg.cc/xqS8WPx1/yd.jpg

I swear y'all make this TOO easy for me. dc dudes never learn man

....why do you need to get personal and abusive?

what did i say that was "abusive" or "personal"

Y'ALL can bash carver all day but when I say "son" it's an issue, man bequiet lmao, stop being soft. your boy getting destroyed on this thread, no need to be captain save-a-pants

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
what did i say that was "abusive" or "personal"

Y'ALL can bash carver all day but when I say "son" it's an issue, man bequiet lmao, stop being soft. your boy getting destroyed on this thread, no need to be captain save-a-pants

Captain save-a-pants? Name-calling now?

Have you read the forum rules yet? Your Street Fighter comics? Your Moon Knight comics?

that's not getting personal, that's stating a fact. I'm exposing this guys so called knowledge on obsidian PRETTY bad. Maybe he's like a god to you due to being on this forum for your whole life idk

I ignored you on the street fighter thread because you asked a dumb question, sin and others were nice enough to answer your question, if you feel salty about it, don't care.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
that's not getting personal, that's stating a fact. I'm exposing this guys so called knowledge on obsidian PRETTY bad. Maybe he's like a god to you due to being on this forum for your whole life idk

That's true, I'm nearly 9 and still owning you
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I ignored you on the street fighter thread because you asked a dumb question, sin and others were nice enough to answer your question, if you feel salty about it, don't care.

Lol you still don't get it after all this time.....

I knew that SF comics were different from the manga. I was waiting for you to confess that you were using manga versions in your head

like how deathseed Iceman was a dream right?

NAH NAH NAH, we not derailing to avoid your boy getting destroyed. I'll reply to you when you have anything relevant to say on obsidian

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
like how deathseed Iceman was a dream right?

NAH NAH NAH, we not derailing to avoid your boy getting destroyed. I'll reply to you when you have anything relevant to say on obsidian

Lol you still think my Salma Hayek posts were serious? Oh man, you are indeed as mindless as one of Anti-Monitor's shadow demons - which Obsidian one shot.

But please, tell me, have you read the forum rules yet? THAT'S on topic LMAO.

I will gladly be a judge if this BZ between Alberto and BB happens.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
COMPLETELY false. Let me debunk you again, I'M the RIGHT ONE. You got the RIGHT one today son

1. Spectre never said he absorbed life energy , spectre said he stole time from random begins in the future ..

Spectre:
"He stole time from the future"

READ:

Todd didn't absorb ian's soul
He absorbed ian into himself ...
He became greater/Became the shadowlands itself, he said ian opened a bottomless pit when he tapped into his darkness and now he's the shadowlands.... What the hell are you talking about lmao



Just love your denial.
Quoting only half of the statement
"He stole time from the future somehow from the future LIVES of random human beings"

Maybe you should try reading all the words and not just looking at the pretty pictures.

So are you telling me that when someone absorbs a nom corporeal being they dont absorb the soul? Likenthenonly rhing that is non corporeal for everyone? Pathetic, absolitely pathetic.

There are literally several dozen times when powerful light eneegy has been blasted at Obsidian and done him no harm whatsoever

During underworld unleashed when the evil souls of hell were free and so many souls on earth were darker done their deals with Neron Obsidian's power was vastly increased at the same time as he was overcome by the vastly greater darkness he sensed and felt in the world around him. He could suddenly fight in several parts of the city at once casually sending portions of his shadow to port his team mates out of harms way (or their attacking adversaries)

You claim Todd doesnt use the starheart, but he is the living embodiment of the darkness within it

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/lSrs1l-MP8Qs0aKp- I3qkHu712AEJ8OLahsHc1qi_cXI7eCIhICgw80NFbcYgN0wdkO
LBDreLm8g=s1600

You claim light causes him damage. But it doesnt he has absorbed the solar blasts of Silver Scarab, the light energy of Chroma, taken the combined light assaults of both Alan and Kyle raynor in the heart of darkness and much more. There are incedents of light energy that is harnessed or merged with soul power or intense will power have hurt him briefly or caused him pain.

For exanple in Justice Society 27 he is harmed by Stargirl's cosmoc rod but only when she was possessed by the erant spirits of the Hiroshima bombing controlles by Kung causing a cercuit between her star rod cosmic converter belt and their energy. Prior to being possesed her energy did him no harm.

Trying to make claims that lowball Todd using evidence that contradicts the things your saying doesnt aid your cause. But by all means just continue to prove my case for me by posting yet more scans that support my interpretation while wailing out yours. All it does is make anyone reading your evidence question the validity of anything you claim when the scans simply dont support your stance

Originally posted by beatboks
Just love your denial.
Quoting only half of the statement
"He stole time from the future somehow from the future LIVES of random human beings"

Maybe you should try reading all the words and not just looking at the pretty pictures.

So are you telling me that when someone absorbs a nom corporeal being they dont absorb the soul? Likenthenonly rhing that is non corporeal for everyone? Pathetic, absolitely pathetic.

There are literally several dozen times when powerful light eneegy has been blasted at Obsidian and done him no harm whatsoever

During underworld unleashed when the evil souls of hell were free and so many souls on earth were darker done their deals with Neron Obsidian's power was vastly increased at the same time as he was overcome by the vastly greater darkness he sensed and felt in the world around him. He could suddenly fight in several parts of the city at once casually sending portions of his shadow to port his team mates out of harms way (or their attacking adversaries)

You claim Todd doesnt use the starheart, but he is the living embodiment of the darkness within it

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/lSrs1l-MP8Qs0aKp- I3qkHu712AEJ8OLahsHc1qi_cXI7eCIhICgw80NFbcYgN0wdkO
LBDreLm8g=s1600

You claim light causes him damage. But it doesnt he has absorbed the solar blasts of Silver Scarab, the light energy of Chroma, taken the combined light assaults of both Alan and Kyle raynor in the heart of darkness and much more. There are incedents of light energy that is harnessed or merged with soul power or intense will power have hurt him briefly or caused him pain.

For exanple in Justice Society 27 he is harmed by Stargirl's cosmoc rod but only when she was possessed by the erant spirits of the Hiroshima bombing controlles by Kung causing a cercuit between her star rod cosmic converter belt and their energy. Prior to being possesed her energy did him no harm.

Trying to make claims that lowball Todd using evidence that contradicts the things your saying doesnt aid your cause. But by all means just continue to prove my case for me by posting yet more scans that support my interpretation while wailing out yours. All it does is make anyone reading your evidence question the validity of anything you claim when the scans simply dont support your stance

Ian is MADE UP of shadow energy
How will it be hard from someone that claimed he's now the shadow land to absorb him ?

UM He was HURT by dr midnight's UV blast , even after he became all powerful , Alan's green lantern light dropped him , he said he couldn't stand the light ..
Someone with strong light blast can drop him. FACT. BASED on panel evidence, you're not fooling anybody here buddy. I ACTUALLY read on obsidian, did you actually thought you was gonna fool me LOL?

LET ME know when you want me to pull these scans up, STOP hiding that fact

and stop giving me broken links. Its annoying

Obsidian.

Alberto is owning in this thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Alberto is owning in this thread. 👍👍

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....why do you need to get personal and abusive?
He's a product of the culture.



Though not sure why he'd be like that with boks. Boks is usually reserved.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Ian is MADE UP of shadow energy
How will it be hard from someone that claimed he's now the shadow land to absorb him ?

UM He was HURT by dr midnight's UV blast , even after he became all powerful , Alan's green lantern light dropped him , he said he couldn't stand the light ..
Someone with strong light blast can drop him. FACT. BASED on panel evidence, you're not fooling anybody here buddy. I ACTUALLY read on obsidian, did you actually thought you was gonna fool me LOL?

LET ME know when you want me to pull these scans up, STOP hiding that fact

1. No he isnt. There is no such thing as shadow energy. The darkness of the shadiwland is the void, the abscence of anything. It was literally stated

2. No he wasnt hurt by Midnights UV blast. A person possessed by his shadow was. Not the same thing. Also he has been blasted by Alan Scot's light about 60 times and only been temporarily harmed by it about 4 times. That's really consistent isn't it. In JSA 7-9 he fights his father for an extended period with multiple blasts but only when Alan goes all out on will does it reduce Scot from darkness covering the planet to hus nornal form. Hes been hit by Shazam lightning and reformed in seconds (literally the panel after being hit). He has been clasted by Kyle Raynor dozens of times with no ill effect.

Look at how many times in this isse Alan Scot and Kyke Raynor's light has zero detrimental effect on Todd. He literally solos two opponents whos power is wielding light energy for the whole issue

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Green-Lantern-Sentinel-Heart-of-Darkness/Issue-2?id=98495

That's heart of darkness issue 2 (if the link is broken- or more likely your device hasnt passed capture to prove your human). Todd doesnt seem too bothered by light blasts from Alan and Kyle multiple times. Try reading the actual context of the times he does.

Not one of those incidents when he is harmed by light cause even so much as a 10 second count ko. What they do is cause the level of damage a strong punch would to a fighter. Yes light can cause him pain, it doesnt however cause him lasting damage.

There is a way to cause a KO to Todd, and its not via light. In fact its the opposite its to overload him with darkness in souls. Like what happened in underworld unleashed in JLA 105

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/3/30145/7319368-1586738811050.jpg

With all the souls being sold to Neron and the darkened souls so prevalent in the world he was overwhelmed by that darkness and left KO'd. Not physical damage but damage to his psyche.

The total irony is I started in this thread saying that Todd would loose in a close fight and only changed my mind becausenof arguments you've made, so great job defending your stance ina thread you started that was intended to be a spite thread, you've successfully turned one who agreed with to the opposing view 👍

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He's a product of the culture.



Though not sure why he'd be like that with boks. Boks is usually reserved.

Lol have we created Albert?

Originally posted by beatboks
1. No he isnt. There is no such thing as shadow energy. The darkness of the shadiwland is the void, the abscence of anything. It was literally stated

2. No he wasnt hurt by Midnights UV blast. A person possessed by his shadow was. Not the same thing. Also he has been blasted by Alan Scot's light about 60 times and only been temporarily harmed by it about 4 times. That's really consistent isn't it. In JSA 7-9 he fights his father for an extended period with multiple blasts but only when Alan goes all out on will does it reduce Scot from darkness covering the planet to hus nornal form. Hes been hit by Shazam lightning and reformed in seconds (literally the panel after being hit). He has been clasted by Kyle Raynor dozens of times with no ill effect.

Look at how many times in this isse Alan Scot and Kyke Raynor's light has zero detrimental effect on Todd. He literally solos two opponents whos power is wielding light energy for the whole issue

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Green-Lantern-Sentinel-Heart-of-Darkness/Issue-2?id=98495

That's heart of darkness issue 2 (if the link is broken- or more likely your device hasnt passed capture to prove your human). Todd doesnt seem too bothered by light blasts from Alan and Kyle multiple times. Try reading the actual context of the times he does.

Not one of those incidents when he is harmed by light cause even so much as a 10 second count ko. What they do is cause the level of damage a strong punch would to a fighter. Yes light can cause him pain, it doesnt however cause him lasting damage.

There is a way to cause a KO to Todd, and its not via light. In fact its the opposite its to overload him with darkness in souls. Like what happened in underworld unleashed in JLA 105

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/3/30145/7319368-1586738811050.jpg

With all the souls being sold to Neron and the darkened souls so prevalent in the world he was overwhelmed by that darkness and left KO'd. Not physical damage but damage to his psyche.

The total irony is I started in this thread saying that Todd would loose in a close fight and only changed my mind becausenof arguments you've made, so great job defending your stance ina thread you started that was intended to be a spite thread, you've successfully turned one who agreed with to the opposing view 👍

I Already stated how surfer wins and proved it , how obsidian doesn't have much against him in this match ..

Let me debunk you on a few points though. AGAIN

There is something like shadow energy (also called shadow force ), and that's what the people with connection to shadowland/shadow realm /shadow void. Like ian and todd uses ..
And he was hurt by Dr midnight's UV ray , even ian ..

You said there's nothing like shadow energy... LOL UM...
READ THIS
Read WHAT Ian said
https://i.postimg.cc/Wty6cKwx/psl.jpg

He was HURT by midnight's blast
https://i.postimg.cc/QHpbgmcP/hurs.jpg

Even ian
https://i.postimg.cc/JG43fkgY/saus.jpg

Stop it. Surfer stomps


You dudes always gotta high ball dc characters to make it seem like theyre higher than they are in comics. UNFORTUNATELY I read comics

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I Already stated how surfer wins and proved it , how obsidian doesn't have much against him in this match ..

Let me debunk you on a few points though. AGAIN

There is something like shadow energy (also called shadow force ), and that's what the people with connection to shadowland/shadow realm /shadow void. Like ian and todd uses ..
And he was hurt by Dr midnight's UV ray , even ian ..

You said there's nothing like shadow energy... LOL UM...
READ THIS
Read WHAT Ian said
https://i.postimg.cc/Wty6cKwx/psl.jpg

He was HURT by midnight's blast
https://i.postimg.cc/QHpbgmcP/hurs.jpg

Even ian
https://i.postimg.cc/JG43fkgY/saus.jpg

Stop it. Surfer stomps


You dudes always gotta high ball dc characters to make it seem like theyre higher than they are in comics. UNFORTUNATELY I read comics

Like you read Moon Knight and Street Fighter comics?

Originally posted by beatboks
1. No he isnt. There is no such thing as shadow energy. The darkness of the shadiwland is the void, the abscence of anything. It was literally stated

2. No he wasnt hurt by Midnights UV blast. A person possessed by his shadow was. Not the same thing. Also he has been blasted by Alan Scot's light about 60 times and only been temporarily harmed by it about 4 times. That's really consistent isn't it. In JSA 7-9 he fights his father for an extended period with multiple blasts but only when Alan goes all out on will does it reduce Scot from darkness covering the planet to hus nornal form. Hes been hit by Shazam lightning and reformed in seconds (literally the panel after being hit). He has been clasted by Kyle Raynor dozens of times with no ill effect.

Look at how many times in this isse Alan Scot and Kyke Raynor's light has zero detrimental effect on Todd. He literally solos two opponents whos power is wielding light energy for the whole issue

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Green-Lantern-Sentinel-Heart-of-Darkness/Issue-2?id=98495

That's heart of darkness issue 2 (if the link is broken- or more likely your device hasnt passed capture to prove your human). Todd doesnt seem too bothered by light blasts from Alan and Kyle multiple times. Try reading the actual context of the times he does.

Not one of those incidents when he is harmed by light cause even so much as a 10 second count ko. What they do is cause the level of damage a strong punch would to a fighter. Yes light can cause him pain, it doesnt however cause him lasting damage.

There is a way to cause a KO to Todd, and its not via light. In fact its the opposite its to overload him with darkness in souls. Like what happened in underworld unleashed in JLA 105

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/3/30145/7319368-1586738811050.jpg

With all the souls being sold to Neron and the darkened souls so prevalent in the world he was overwhelmed by that darkness and left KO'd. Not physical damage but damage to his psyche.

The total irony is I started in this thread saying that Todd would loose in a close fight and only changed my mind becausenof arguments you've made, so great job defending your stance ina thread you started that was intended to be a spite thread, you've successfully turned one who agreed with to the opposing view 👍 great way to end this thread

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I Already stated how surfer wins and proved it , how obsidian doesn't have much against him in this match ..

Let me debunk you on a few points though. AGAIN

There is something like shadow energy (also called shadow force ), and that's what the people with connection to shadowland/shadow realm /shadow void. Like ian and todd uses ..
And he was hurt by Dr midnight's UV ray , even ian ..

You said there's nothing like shadow energy... LOL UM...
READ THIS
Read WHAT Ian said
https://i.postimg.cc/Wty6cKwx/psl.jpg

He was HURT by midnight's blast
https://i.postimg.cc/QHpbgmcP/hurs.jpg

Even ian
https://i.postimg.cc/JG43fkgY/saus.jpg

Stop it. Surfer stomps


You dudes always gotta high ball dc characters to make it seem like theyre higher than they are in comics. UNFORTUNATELY I read comics

I love your shifting scale of what is acceptable evidence.
When I post a scan showing Ian State he absorbs souls, backed up by Spectre saying he had and two other sources statements aren't admissible. But when Ian makes a statement contradicted by 2 pieces of evidence I loaded links for and listed the issue numders of that takes presidence.

Now to the trst of your BS
Todd experienced pain from the UV grenade dropped by Hooty but wasnt significantly damaged (I already said he experiences the pain of being knocked onnthe ropes- that doesnt equate to battle winning damage).

Your second scan actually proves that. Its the page after where we see a shadow controlled Hawkgirl and citizen attack Midnight etc. Karkull doesnt have the power to control others thru shadows like Todd, they were still under his control because he wasnt put down.

Also, that wasnt Ian blasted by the UV gun it was a citizen and he was freed by the light. Ot was what I stated in the post you replied to happened.

If you need more proof tje following page Todd was still fighting and Atom Smasher
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/3/30145/7321699-1586854509505.jpg
Todd wasnt (as I said) so much as down for a 10 sec count.
I could gonon to post the next page where Todd tells them all they are jothing more than an annoyance.

That was from a light attack he wasnt expecting.

So lets look at said light attacks when he is

https://m.imgur.com/7DqsZBj
Light energy of chroma no issue for him (even though Choma had already taken down PG, Jade and several others with that same light energy showing just how powerful it was)

https://i.imgur.com/IPDyUYt_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Silver scarab solar energy also no issue. Causes pain but not so much he cant stand and take it for an extended period
This mind you he is doing defending a team mate he dispises and always fights with (its why Hector was shocked)

https://m.imgur.com/4X0qZqF
Has no issue taking down two herald level characters who wield light.

https://i.imgur.com/U8kASkC_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/ZTAMLPN_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
In fact casually destroys their ligh constructs

https://m.imgur.com/7JRchS0
Can casually absorb the attacks of Alan Scot wielding light blasts.

For wvery two scans you post of Todd experiencing pain from light I can show 5 of him tanking a greater light source and continuing on.

SSB blasting Todd with strong light blast in an opening salvo will cause Todd pain yes. It wont however put him down. He will after that be ready for the next light based attack and just as a boxer braces himsef forthe hit (or rolls with it) he will then be ready to absorb the light. That is all that is different between when he is hurt and when he tanks it. When he is hurt is either didnt get ready to absorb it or wasnt prepared for the intensity of the blast (like when Alan scot said "I wrote the book on will power" when he blasted him at the end of that arc.

Lets look at you assinine arguments.

1. Todd cant hurt SSB. But youve yet to show why the way Todd shows someone the darkness in themselves (whether that is their inner fears and insecurities or the dark things theyve done. You made some stupid claim he cant because he cant touch SSB, but failed to back it up. I've already shown Todd can touch intangible things and that he doesn't "touch" someone to use that power anyway, he simlly casts a shadow over them from a distance. Debunked

2. You've claimed that a light blast from SSB will end the fight, but there are a lot more times of Todd not being seriously damaged by light than him experiencing pain. Added to which of the 6 times Todd has experienced pain from light in print he was only beaten by 1 (the end of the JSA #9 where Alan makes that wrote the book statement and goes all out). Every other time he is not even KOd and keeps fighting. Debunked

3. Youve claimed that Todd doesnt have magic power, but i posted scans of Dr Fate tracking the magical energy of Ian Karkull back to him and scans of Starheart saying that Todd's power comes from him, plus scans of Alan saying he is the embodiment of the darkness of the starheart.

4. You've claimed that his power has no link to souls or life energy but Ive shown both Ian, Fate, Spectre and the nerator confirm it does. Lets say for just a moment that its not souls. What ot nost definitely is is the"abstract" darkness of the soul and the mind. The bottom line is, even of your right it functukns as if your wrong. There are just too many incidents of hin comtrollingnothers with their fears, or darkness of what they have done. He doesnt have TP, or any other power that accounts for it.

I initially thought Surfer won because I only remembered him going for the mind/darkness/soul whammy when he was evil. When I went loolong for scaans to show you were wrong about he could do nothing to hurt SSB, I was actually suprised how often in a normal statenof mind he went for the same thing. Its much more common for him than I remembered.

Your arguments have failed and only served to turn the one of the only two in this thread who initially agreed with you to the opposing side. Continuing to restate then with out of context scans or acans that actually prove the opposite of your position isnt going well for you.

I fell ther is no point to continue further as it fells like a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent and I don't wont to drive it anymore

Good day sir

My guy you took days to reply to this thread, I lost interest awhile ago to even address that LMAO believe what you want 🙄

Lol he didn't take days. Such a drama queen.

There's about 24 hours between your posts. It's not even that, so it's not even a day.

Easily verifiable facts, and you are shown to be lying. What else do you lie about?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And this is after Beatboks, one of the chillest posters on the site (and not a DC fanboys) was polite to him.

Such a crybaby lol. He knows he's been found out yeah BB is a sound chill guy. I could understand if it was against me