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Thought Robot Superman
Zero Hour Parallax
Witching Hour Wonder Woman
Phantom Stranger
Flash Racer
Classic Doctor Fate
White Lantern Kyle Rayner
DCNU Captain Atom


vs

TOBA Hulk
Classic Doctor Fate
HOM Wanda
Chaos War Hercules
Phoenix Buster Iron Man
Black Panther W/IG
Rune King Thor

I def left out half the list of JLA since there are too many to pick from

But you made sure you have the DC side 8 fighters and the Marvel side 7. Nice try though, but we been on to you a long time ago👍

At least 4 people on team one can solo. Lol

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
At least 4 people on team one can solo. Lol Look who made the thread if that's true.

ZHP is not Hal's most powerful incarnation. It is Spectre. Especially with Logoz.

Team 1

Originally posted by SithLantern93
ZHP is not Hal's most powerful incarnation. It is Spectre. Especially with Logoz.

like I said, I left out a lot in the JL department, there are too many to name

who do you think wins

JLA, and it's not even close.

Originally posted by JBL
But you made sure you have the DC side 8 fighters and the Marvel side 7. Nice try though, but we been on to you a long time ago👍

Lol yes, the numbers advantage is what gives DC the win.

CAS solos.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol yes, the numbers advantage is what gives DC the win. lol no, it's his making sure the DC side wins in ALL his threads.

There are at least 2 to 3 characters on the JL that can solo.

Spite really

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Spite really

in whose favor?

TRS alone wins this. They have no way to stop him since he is a concept.

JLA Stomps.

Originally posted by JBL
But you made sure you have the DC side 8 fighters and the Marvel side 7. Nice try though, but we been on to you a long time ago👍

Reed Richards with power of Beyonders could even it up. Reed has been an Avengers.

https://m.imgur.com/a/Ou32WiR

https://m.imgur.com/a/YF25ZPe

Lol unless Owen is riding on his back....

Well, in that instance, Earth 4 Allen Adam riding on Superman's back will even it up, though the addition of Ultraman screws it up again.

Ah but they're all in the Thought Robot already. So not quite the same.

Unlike Reed, who is only directing Owens power.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Well, in that instance, Earth 4 Allen Adam riding on Superman's back will even it up, though the addition of Ultraman screws it up again. The op very clearly stated using Thought Robot Superman, Which means Superman already in TRS and he has control over TRS so Adam and Ultraman both have no effect in this scenario

Reed would get soloed by ZH Parallax lol.

Adam is not in the robot. And since Ultraman is in it, then he counts at least much as Owen as another participant.

Owen is channeling power into Reed as he does with god Doom.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The op very clearly stated using Thought Robot Superman, Which means Superman already in TRS and he has control over TRS so Adam and Ultraman both have no effect in this scenario

And Reed has control over the power Owen is channeling into him. Would you agree?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Adam is not in the robot. And since Ultraman is in it, then he counts at least much as Owen as another participant.

Owen is channeling power into Reed as he does with god Doom. So you admitting that Adam has no part in this scenario at all, Right?. And the TRS was channeling Superman's stories as his powers, Not Ultraman's.
Ultraman only playing the "Start button" role

Originally posted by TheHulkster
And Reed has control over the power Owen is channeling into him. Would you agree? You're changing the concept.
TRS is a machine that Directly being powered by SUPERMAN'S stories, The comic makes it very clear. And Reed needs Owen's help to do it. Unless you want to start arguing that Reed has the powers that belong to Owen?

Is Hulkster still on his quest of trying to make TR not a Superman version, for some reason?

A subject I have never broached until two and a half hours ago is a quest? And whether it is a version of Superman or not is not what is been discussed. What is being discussed is what makes it more legit than Beyonders powered Reed. I was just looking at a former Avenger who meets this thread's standards and would even the numbers if so wished

https://imgur.com/a/3gvryu9

I'm sure we've discussed that not long ago, but ok.

@Hulkster
We've already discussed that long ago
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
What? The comic stated on panel clearly only Superman( His essence) could save them, And during his battle with mandrakk it was blatanly stated It was Superman stories could beat mandrakk and it was superman who controlling the thought robot all the time
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
Make no mistake, it was His(Superman) essence that being powered TRS all the time
"enough energy in my hands to broadcast HIS PURE ESSENCE to a receiver in a higher dimension"
"only SUPERMAN can save us"
"I found a better STORY.........The story of a child rocketed to earth from a doomed planet"
But once activated, It belongs to Superman
Originally posted by Galan007
To clarify...


Superman and Ultraman were dualities: comprised of normal matter/good, and anti-matter/bad.

Thought-Robot could only be activated by the tremendous energies unleashed during collisions of fundamental opposing qualities:
https://i.imgur.com/FsHrHjh.jpg

So Allen merged the essences of Superman and Ultraman(ie. matter and anti-matter), and used the resulting energy to activate Thought-Robot:
https://i.imgur.com/5LRkLT9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L3YM0c3.jpg

But make no mistake: once activated, Thought-Robot was exclusively channeling the the idea/story/concept of SUPERMAN(ie. the most powerful story in DC.) Hence Allen's final line: "Only Superman can save us now."
Originally posted by Galan007
It required the energy generated by merging the opposing essences/dualities of Superman(normal matter) and Ultraman(anti-matter) to activate/start Thought-Robot, yes.

But once activated, Thought-Robot was exclusively channeling the story/concept/idea of Superman alone(as noted by both Allen and Zillo Valla.) It was also Superman himself speaking through Thought-Robot, and Thought-Robot itself was obviously modeled in Superman's image from the very beginning:
https://i.imgur.com/H8LUjZA.jpg

So if you guys are talking about the ability to simply activate Thought-Robot, then no, Superman cannot do it alone. However, without the 'all-powerful' story of Superman to fuel it once activated, Thought-Robot would have been entirely useless. The hyper-tech was quite literally made for him.

Completely one sided. Intentionally, I'm sure.

Originally posted by meep-meep
Completely one sided. Intentionally, I'm sure.

well...who else can I add on team 2 side to make it more even?

TR SOLOS
ZHP SOLOS
WHWW SOLOS

Wait, Ultraman also had play as well. What is being said here?

Originally posted by carver9
Wait, Ultraman also had play as well. What is being said here?

Ultraman influences the fight.

https://imgur.com/a/ttKHoev

Also, where is Batman?

Originally posted by carver9
Wait, Ultraman also had play as well. What is being said here?

Some posters are salty and trying to add their own stips. It happens.

@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?

The Grant Morrison's interview link
http://holyheroes.blogspot.com/2009/02/at-edge-of-mind-of-god.html

Noooo Hulkster will use that as more proof of double standards on the site!!

"Waaah Darksaint, he's using an interview, get him!!!!"

.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?

Where is the quote that says that the robot is "powered" by Superman's story? Where does the interview say this?

And Darksaint says that interviews are inadmissable.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Ultraman influences the fight.

https://imgur.com/a/ttKHoev what did ultraman do here? But why is this even in question?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Noooo Hulkster will use that as more proof of double standards on the site!!

"Waaah Darksaint, he's using an interview, get him!!!!"

What does it even matter?

OP says Thought Robot is here.

OP does NOT say Reed with Owen with Beyonder powers is here.

So who cares lmao.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does it even matter?

OP says Thought Robot is here.

OP does NOT say Reed with Owen with Beyonder powers is here.

So who cares lmao. exactly.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does it even matter?

OP says Thought Robot is here.

OP does NOT say Reed with Owen with Beyonder powers is here.

So who cares lmao.

Originally posted by MrMind
well...who else can I add on team 2 side to make it more even?

The story thing can be quite convoluted, but Morrison himself has taken the idea that all superhero stories stem from Superman as a literal construct. Story in DC exists because of Superman's story, so in essence, Superman is the engine powering it all.

This is something Morrison has stated himself.

So has he added Reed?

If not.... My point still stands, right? Or if you can quote where he puts Reed with Owen with Beyonders powers

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?

TR is a SUPERMECH. It's essentially a vehicle. That's like saying the ****ing Thundertank counts for composite Lion-O 🤦🏿‍♂️
TR is literally an robot. It's powered by duality, not Superman. It's literally explicitly stated in the book. That's why Ultraman is needed, doesn't get any clearer than this.

it's Clark's consciousness AND Ultraman's. It's powered by duality. Without both, it doesn't run. There's a point in the fight where Superman states he can feel Ultraman's influence in TRs actions.

A model, a construct not Superman. Besides the story needed the consciousness of both Superman and Ultraman to ride the TR, there's ZERO evidence Supes could have done it on his own, so it's not entirely him either.

https://i.postimg.cc/KK8qVcRD/huyn.jpg

a machine, nothing more. his consciousness was just put into a machine that's literally it, if he was actually superman he wouldn't have needed to through the fusion process with a multiverse counterpart with different experiences

JLA stomps

Haha EXCEPT Hes not superman. Not even an alternate version. Hes a robot who used Clark as a template. So, no, Thought Robot isnt usuable based on canon facts.

It's a SuperMegazord driven by the fusion of astral Superman and Ultraman. Never been an "Incarnation" of Supes. He hears Ultra cuz Ultra is as much a part of TR as he is. Period. They are not intertwined, or bonded to each other, so that would account for Clark's "somewhere inside". They're still separate entities.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
TR is a SUPERMECH. It's essentially a vehicle. That's like saying the ****ing Thundertank counts for composite Lion-O 🤦🏿‍♂️
TR is literally an robot. It's powered by duality, not Superman. It's literally explicitly stated in the book. That's why Ultraman is needed, doesn't get any clearer than this.

it's Clark's consciousness AND Ultraman's. It's powered by duality. Without both, it doesn't run. There's a point in the fight where Superman states he can feel Ultraman's influence in TRs actions. it was funny to see even after months you still so butthurted.
Ultraman was needed in activating TRS, But it was being by powered Superman's story/essence like I said before. And when its activated, It being driven by Superman
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?
It was hilarious you used a comic that not even remotely related to the story or the condition that we're dicussing.
A corrupted, Flawed version of a parallel universe Batman transformed his consciousness to a robot dinosaur compared to A machine that specifically designed for Superman and It being powered by Superman purest essence
Also worth noting that was Wonder Woman personal perspective for a dark multiverse Batman and this story wasn't written by Morrison LMAO
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
A model, a construct not Superman. Besides the story needed the consciousness of both Superman and Ultraman to ride the TR, there's ZERO evidence Supes could have done it on his own, so it's not entirely him either.

https://i.postimg.cc/KK8qVcRD/huyn.jpg

a machine, nothing more. his consciousness was just put into a machine that's literally it, if he was actually superman he wouldn't have needed to through the fusion process with a multiverse counterpart with different experiences
And even Mandrakk himself also referring TRS as Superman
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#17

@AlbertoJohnAvil
Nope, It was stated multiple times it was Superman who against Mandrakk and Mandrakk himself even referring it as Superman
What story do you think she was talking about?
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
Can feel another influence doesn't mean the other was in control.
Ultraman literally seeing Mandrakk as his god. So why in hell did he want to help Superman defeat Mandrakk if he was in control Trollberto?
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#2

@AlbertoJohnAvil
Mandrak referring it as Superman.Again, You are the one who keeps trolling and spreading his head canon and lying

@AlbertoJohnAvil
The comic said otherwise
"I hold the elixir, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#17
"Tell me, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#19

That doesn't addess my point in any way shape or form, If it needs two characters to even power it, it obviously cannot be counted as a character itself. It's an object

And once it activated, It was being controlled and powered by Superman's himself.
So like other posters said
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does it even matter?

OP says Thought Robot is here.

OP does NOT say Reed with Owen with Beyonder powers is here.

So who cares lmao.

The OP said using TRS and it very clearly TRS is working. IOW, It was controlled by Superman so what you keep saying is irrelevant.

@AlbertoJohnAvil
So we both agree that Superman is in control and Mandrakk actually referring it as Superman ?

aye qwerty, whatever your name is, Is the Destroyer actually Odin when the All Father's soul is driving it?

It's a mech driven by Clark and Ultraman. Period. You ignoring that isn't going to it. It's not allowed as an incarnation for Supes

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
By your logic, Destroyer is also Odin Except the OP didn't use this specific version of destroyer
So far. We only saw TRS was controlled and operated by Superman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It's a mech driven by Clark and Ultraman. Period. You ignoring that isn't going to it. It's not allowed as an incarnation for Supes
Say this to Mandrakk

Say what? It's a psychic mech. Full stop.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Say what? It's a psychic mech. Full stop. Mandrakk says TRS was Superman in the comic. And clearly in this thread we're using this specific comic

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Mandrakk says TRS was Superman in the comic. And clearly in this thread we're using this specific comic

Except everybody whose read the entire arc KNOWS that Its 3 different people who were in the armor, NOT just Clark.
Parallel world versions of a character do not go in composite. For instance, AoA (though it's more alternate timeline than parallel reality) AoA Logan isn't part of composite. Neither is gold clawed Logan with the mutton chops.

It's not Superman. It's a machine he controlled. Period. All the logic bending in the world doesn't change that. The book calls it an it and a robot. DC defines it as an object, not character. None of your fan logic changes any of that. Like these are two hard, indisputable facts. DC says it's an object.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except everybody whose read the entire arc KNOWS that Its 3 different people who were in the armor, NOT just Clark.
Parallel world versions of a character do not go in composite. For instance, AoA (though it's more alternate timeline than parallel reality) AoA Logan isn't part of composite. Neither is gold clawed Logan with the mutton chops.

It's not Superman. It's a machine he controlled. Period. All the logic bending in the world doesn't change that. The book calls it an it and a robot. DC defines it as an object, not character. None of your fan logic changes any of that. Like these are two hard, indisputable facts. DC says it's an object. But almost every character in this story referring it as Superman for the reasons that I already addressed which is reasonable. It was an object no one denied that, But an object that Superman was in control and powered it
And the OP also said TRS which means its working and being operated by Superman.
Both the OP and the comic didn't give a shit to your opinions(actually,biases). So the same words for you:Keep that head canon to yourself kid who can't grow up to be an adult

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But almost every character in this story referring it as Superman for the reasons that I already addressed which is reasonable. It was an object no one denied that, But an object that Superman was in control and powered it
And the OP also said TRS which means its working and being operated by Superman.
Both the OP and the comic didn't give a shit to your opinions(actually,biases). So the same words for you:Keep that head canon to yourself kid who can't grow up to be an adult

Except It used duality. Opposing opposites. Not once did it say it needed supes power specifically. Not. Once. It was powered by duality so technically had Black Adam been there with Shazam, they too could have powered it. it's the concept of opposed forces that power TR, NOT KRYPTONIANS. So no, its not an "incarnation" for Supes, and never will be. YOU keep that head canon to yourself

Originally posted by -Pr-
The story thing can be quite convoluted, but Morrison himself has taken the idea that all superhero stories stem from Superman as a literal construct. Story in DC exists because of Superman's story, so in essence, Superman is the engine powering it all.

This is something Morrison has stated himself.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except It used duality. Opposing opposites. Not once did it say it needed supes power specifically. Not. Once. It was powered by duality so technically had Black Adam been there with Shazam, they too could have powered it. it's the concept of opposed forces that power TR, NOT KRYPTONIANS. So no, its not an "incarnation" for Supes, and never will be. YOU keep that head canon to yourself
Lol what?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?
So again
What story do you think she was talking about?
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
Also like I and many others said before. The OP using TRS and since TRS only appeared in this story which was operated by Superman. So we treat it as a version of Superman.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Lol what?

So again
What story do you think she was talking about?
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
Also like I and many others said before. The OP using TRS and since TRS only appeared in this story which was operated by Superman. So we treat it as a version of Superman.


except we don't. its not just superman, its neg universe Ulltraman and the power source is universe 4 quantum superman. so No It's not a incarnation of Clark himself.

The TR exists independently of Clark. Its not Clark, period.

TR is a device powered by the idea of duality of Ultra and Clark but is in no way actually Superman. Both Superman and Ultraman are expelled from the wrecked TR with no injuries because It's not them taking damage

https://i.postimg.cc/pyxMk07B/7hy.jpg

even IF Superman was driving, it's still not him. He was piloting a robot. Period. DC itself designated TR as an OBJECT. DC doesn't consider it Superman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The TR exists independently of Clark. Its not Clark, period. But it was controlled and powered by Clark and The OP specifically using this version
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
TR is a device powered by the idea of duality of Ultra and Clark but is in no way actually Superman. Both Superman and Ultraman are expelled from the wrecked TR with no injuries because It's not them taking damage

https://i.postimg.cc/pyxMk07B/7hy.jpg
No, It was powered by Superman's story
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
The duality just the energies that need to activate as it stated on panel
"A thought robot activated by the tremendous energies unleashed during collisions of fundamental opposing qualitis"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#9
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
even IF Superman was driving, it's still not him. He was piloting a robot. Period. DC itself designated TR as an OBJECT. DC doesn't consider it Superman.
The comic said otherwise
"I hold the elixir, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#17
"Tell me, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#19
Even Grant Morrison himself referred it as Superman Trollberto

Again, Nobody in this thread denied it was an object.
But the comic refers it as Superman. The OP clearly using it as a version of Superman. So you just trolling around like you always did.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But it was controlled and powered by Clark and The OP specifically using this version

No, It was powered by Superman's story
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
The duality just the energies that need to activate as it stated on panel
"A thought robot activated by the tremendous energies unleashed during collisions of fundamental opposing qualitis"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#9

The comic said otherwise
"I hold the elixir, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#17
"Tell me, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#19
Even Grant Morrison himself referred it as Superman Trollberto

Except DC. Says. It's. An. Object. By definition, that means it's not Superman, i.e. a being. Sit down. Takes a real fool to dispute the creators take on it's creation

Clark wasn't the one controlling it. Never once did he say, "I did this or that or he shrugged off my attack". He literally only describes his perception of the Bleed etc. Obviously cuz he's not a hero, they wouldn't give Ultraman any exposition, Clark also clearly refers to the fact that Ultra-Man is conscious and speaking

Clark got narrative cuz he's the hero of the book. That's simple comic abc.

So, nah, it's not allowed as a version of Supes, no amount of logic bending will change that, keep trying though, its hilarious

The Beyonder was an Avenger. Just saying.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except DC. Says. It's. An. Object. By definition, that means it's not Superman, i.e. a being. Sit down. Takes a real fool to dispute the creators take on it's creation

Clark wasn't the one controlling it. Never once did he say, "I did this or that or he shrugged off my attack". He literally only describes his perception of the Bleed etc. Obviously cuz he's not a hero, they wouldn't give Ultraman any exposition, Clark also clearly refers to the fact that Ultra-Man is conscious and speaking

Clark got narrative cuz he's the hero of the book. That's simple comic abc.

So, nah, it's not allowed as a version of Supes, no amount of logic bending will change that, keep trying though, its hilarious
Yeah, Keep fooling yourself. The comic stated TRS is Superman and even the writer stated the same thing
Yes, Superman was in control. TRS even said this
"I need you....to protect MY WORLD.....MY UNIVERSE......The ELIXIR she promised..."
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#24
If Superman wasn't controlling TRS. Why TRS said he needs the monitors to protect his universe(Earth-0) or asks The ELIXIR that he needs to save Lois
Again, Feel Ultraman's consciousness =/ Superman wasn't in control.

Why is the Spectre regarded as a big deal? DC's Surtur just bit his head off.

Alt reality?

The Spectre is the same in all realities isn't it/he? The Spirit of Vengeance, God's wrath? Needless to say, I had a chuckle seeing him get his head bitten off. He's truly becoming DC's version of Galactus.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, Keep fooling yourself. The comic stated TRS is Superman and even the writer stated the same thing
Yes, Superman was in control. TRS even said this
"I need you....to protect MY WORLD.....MY UNIVERSE......The ELIXIR she promised..."
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#24
If Superman wasn't controlling TRS. Why TRS said he needs the monitors to protect his universe(Earth-0) or asks The ELIXIR that he needs to save Lois
Again, Feel Ultraman's consciousness =/ Superman wasn't in control.

WRONG, Superman and Ultraman aren't interchangeable. They have completely different biologies, abilities, strengths, weaknesses and skill sets. Their existences are inimical to each other because they are from opposed realities. If they touch, everything dies. Ultraman is NOT alternate Superman.

Superman's absolute opposite. Which is actually the point of him being there. Because TR IS POWERED BY DUALITY, NOT Clark Kent. Do you understand what duality means?

As if more proof is needed (for those of you who needed a writer to confirm Supes isn't mUlTiVeRsAl &#129396 there's this. TR is literally described as a Sentinel Suit. Which, speaking broadly makes it exactly what I described it as: basically a type of mech. There is so much evidence on page that TR is an object, not a being. The Fan Force has you dudes really ****ed up:
https://i.postimg.cc/fJhNQQc0/enyg.jpg

AI is technically "living" but it's still a thing, not a being.

built object, incapable of action on it's own, hence having Clark and Ultra use it but ItS veRsIoN of SuPeS! Yeah no. It isn't. Never will be.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Spectre is the same in all realities isn't it/he? The Spirit of Vengeance, God's wrath? Needless to say, I had a chuckle seeing him get his head bitten off. He's truly becoming DC's version of Galactus.

No.

Alberto, if former Titan member Cyborg died, and was replaced by a robot that identified as Cyborg (which recently happened in an alt verse), is it Cyborg? What if it had all of Victor's memories?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
WRONG, Superman and Ultraman aren't interchangeable. They have completely different biologies, abilities, strengths, weaknesses and skill sets. Their existences are inimical to each other because they are from opposed realities. If they touch, everything dies. Ultraman is NOT alternate Superman.

Superman's absolute opposite. Which is actually the point of him being there. Because TR IS POWERED BY DUALITY, NOT Clark Kent. Do you understand what duality means?

As if more proof is needed (for those of you who needed a writer to confirm Supes isn't mUlTiVeRsAl &#129396 there's this. TR is literally described as a Sentinel Suit. Which, speaking broadly makes it exactly what I described it as: basically a type of mech. There is so much evidence on page that TR is an object, not a being. The Fan Force has you dudes really ****ed up:
https://i.postimg.cc/fJhNQQc0/enyg.jpg

AI is technically "living" but it's still a thing, not a being.

built object, incapable of action on it's own, hence having Clark and Ultra use it but ItS veRsIoN of SuPeS! Yeah no. It isn't. Never will be.
The goal moving is hilarious
The post was to reply you arguing Superman wasn't in control of TRS
This is your original post

And nobody was denying TRS is a machine/robot. You just keep building a strawman to save your face.
The reasons that I and the comic and even the writer considering about it as Superman are already addressed in my previous posts. And the OP still is using TRS as a version of Superman.
I highly recommend you to take some medicine. Because you evidently have some physical or mental problems since you clearly can't comprehend others' posts and can't make a consistent point in an argument

Another insecure dc spite match.

@AlbertoJohnAvil
Yep. You truly can't comprehend any basic word
This is what I said

Did I say it wasn't a version of Superman?
And what reason for Mandrakk incorrectly calling it. Also don't forget the writer himself also calling it Superman. Are you suggesting you know more about TRS than Mandrakk or Morrison?

Originally posted by Stoic
Alberto, if former Titan member Cyborg died, and was replaced by a robot that identified as Cyborg (which recently happened in an alt verse), is it Cyborg? What if it had all of Victor's memories?

What about the X-Men and their resurrection protocols

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What about the X-Men and their resurrection protocols

Try Tony Stark or Mister Sinister and their history of resurrections, lol.

Or Eternals --- which Hickman shamelessly copied.


--
Smart thing to do would be elaborating on the soul part. I may not be into spiritual stuff much, but that would be a good way of confirming they are still the same characters.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@AlbertoJohnAvil
Yep. You truly can't comprehend any basic word
This is what I said

Did I say it wasn't a version of Superman?
And what reason for Mandrakk incorrectly calling it. Also don't forget the writer himself also calling it Superman. Are you suggesting you know more about TRS than Mandrakk or Morrison?

OH NOW writers interviews is usable? desperate times comes with desperate measure eh kid

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
OH NOW writers interviews is usable? desperate times comes with desperate measure eh kid Because you keep denying what stated on panel ?Or are you trying to pretend Mandrakk never refers it as Superman?you know that other characters calling it robot/machine didn't contradict it was a machine that being operated and powered by Superman, Hence Mandrakk calling it Superman and its a version of Superman right?Keep trolling.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Because you keep denying what stated on panel ?Or are you trying to pretend Mandrakk never refers it as Superman?you know that other characters calling it robot/machine didn't contradict it was a machine that being operated and powered by Superman, Hence Mandrakk calling it Superman and its a version of Superman right?Keep trolling.

Yeah No it isn't, Adam clearly says it's powered by dualities. Split, opposing forces. TR is powered by the yin-yang pull between Ultra-Man and Superman, not by Superman himself. So Its not a "version" of Supes

https://i.postimg.cc/rzFRkVb0/Screenshot-140.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yeah No it isn't, Adam clearly says it's powered by dualities. Split, opposing forces. TR is powered by the yin-yang pull between Ultra-Man and Superman, not by Superman himself. So Its not a "version" of Supes

https://i.postimg.cc/rzFRkVb0/Screenshot-140.jpg Lol. I already posted that scan and gave an opposite conclusion
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But it was controlled and powered by Clark and The OP specifically using this version

No, It was powered by Superman's story
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
The duality just the energies that need to activate as it stated on panel
"A thought robot activated by the tremendous energies unleashed during collisions of fundamental opposing qualitis"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond/Issue-2?id=74549#9

The comic said otherwise
"I hold the elixir, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#17
"Tell me, SUPERMAN"
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Fi...e-2?id=74549#19
Even Grant Morrison himself referred it as Superman Trollberto
Once proved you lack the ability of basic reading
Do me a favor. Read what I posted before typing your head canon

So you posted a scan that PROVED my point? Yeah the CONCLUSION was that TR isn't solely powered by Superman lmaooo, your own scan blatantly says that.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So you posted a scan that PROVED my point? Yeah the CONCLUSION was that TR isn't solely powered by Superman lmaooo, your own scan blatantly says that. Again, You failed in comprehending the very basic words that I posted.
No, The post was saying TRS was activated by the dualities. But once activated, It was being powered and operated by Superman
That is....Exactly what I'm previously saying in my post
Being Powered by Superman's essence/story

Only activating it needs the dualities

Noting that Adam said the energies were used to broadcast Superman pure essence to TRS not to power it
Again, Do me a favor. Improve your basic reading.

@Albert, cont.

Well, Forge needed to re-add the adamantium to Logan --- but the end result is the same.


My problem with it is that the resurrection crypt concept already existed in Eternals stories.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Again, You failed in comprehending the very basic words that I posted.
No, The post was saying TRS was activated by the dualities. But once activated, It was being powered and operated by Superman
That is....Exactly what I'm previously saying in my post
Being Powered by Superman's essence/story

Only activating it needs the dualities

Noting that Adam said the energies were used to broadcast Superman pure essence to TRS not to power it
Again, Do me a favor. Improve your basic reading.

EXACTLY. TR is the cosmic version of one of Starks IM drone bodies. It's powered by esoterica rather than tech but still same concept. A made thing, powered by an actual being.

it's STILL a dead hunk of hardware without a pilot. Or, two in TR's case. It's inert on its own. It's an object, so nah kid not an "version" of Superman

in general, composite matches use versions of Clark. TR is an object. what's irrefutable, no matter what you say, is that TR is an object, PER DC, not Superman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
EXACTLY. TR is the cosmic version of one of Starks IM drone bodies. It's powered by esoterica rather than tech but still same concept. A made thing, powered by an actual being.

it's STILL a dead hunk of hardware without a pilot. Or, two in TR's case. It's inert on its own. It's an object, so nah kid not an "version" of Superman But the comic referred it as Superman( Mandrakk). And just some food for thought, The writer himself also referred it as Superman.
And most importantly, The OP treating and using TRS as a version of Superman in this thread. So if you have any problem, Then asking mrmind to change it.
We're posting in his thread so we're playing his rules, Simple

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
in general, composite matches use versions of Clark. TR is an object. what's irrefutable, no matter what you say, is that TR is an object, PER DC, not Superman. And DC also referred it as Superman. The dialogue not written by me.
It is an object and it is a version of Superman. For me. It was similar to If Superman is wearing The Entropy Aegis

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
DNA, memories, personalities, powersets, even the artificial enhancements in some cases...

We're only missing Hickman confirming their souls are intact, unless he (or some other writer) has done it already.

Maybe?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But the comic referred it as Superman( Mandrakk). And just some food for thought, The writer himself also referred it as Superman.
And most importantly, The OP treating and using TRS as a version of Superman in this thread. So if you have any problem, Then asking mrmind to change it.
We're posting in his thread so we're playing his rules, Simple

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And DC also referred it as Superman. The dialogue not written by me.
It is an object and it is a version of Superman. For me. It was similar to If Superman is wearing The Entropy Aegis

What? he already knew him from his first contact with the stories when he probed the fault.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What? he already knew him from his first contact with the stories when he probed the fault. I don't know what are you trying to say.
Are you saying because Mandrakk knew Superman hence he referred TRS as Superman when they're fighting?
Like I said before.
1Mandrakk certainly treated TRS as Superman. And some food for thought:The writer also treated TRS as Superman(or rather, His concept)
2 TRS was being powered and piloted by Superman. Superman is engine of TRS
Just like PR said before
Originally posted by -Pr-
The story thing can be quite convoluted, but Morrison himself has taken the idea that all superhero stories stem from Superman as a literal construct. Story in DC exists because of Superman's story, so in essence, Superman is the engine powering it all.

This is something Morrison has stated himself.
3 The OP was treating and using TRS as a version of Superman. So we go by it in this thread. Simple

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't know what are you trying to say.
Are you saying because Mandrakk knew Superman hence he referred TRS as Superman when they're fighting?
Like I said before.
1Mandrakk certainly treated TRS as Superman. And some food for thought:The writer also treated TRS as Superman(or rather, His concept)
2 TRS was being powered and piloted by Superman. Superman is engine of TRS
Just like PR said before

3 The OP was treating and using TRS as a version of Superman. So we go by it in this thread. Simple

BUT its not a "version" of Superman, Literally says it's a suit. It's an object, not a being.

https://i.postimg.cc/fJhNQQc0/enyg.jpg

it's an artificial construct housing Superman's essence, it's gear. (Similar to arguments about Cyberion Station Cyborg or 1610 Tony)

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't know what are you trying to say.
Are you saying because Mandrakk knew Superman hence he referred TRS as Superman when they're fighting?
Like I said before.
1Mandrakk certainly treated TRS as Superman. And some food for thought:The writer also treated TRS as Superman(or rather, His concept)
2 TRS was being powered and piloted by Superman. Superman is engine of TRS
Just like PR said before

3 The OP was treating and using TRS as a version of Superman. So we go by it in this thread. Simple

Um YEAH he mad first contact with the story concept when the overmonitor discovered the fault.

https://i.postimg.cc/p5NyFjxq/hnb.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/8fPkWm9d/regn.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/BP6stQPM/amn.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/hQfWcyNY/rgb.jpg

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't know what are you trying to say.
Are you saying because Mandrakk knew Superman hence he referred TRS as Superman when they're fighting?
Like I said before.
1Mandrakk certainly treated TRS as Superman. And some food for thought:The writer also treated TRS as Superman(or rather, His concept)
2 TRS was being powered and piloted by Superman. Superman is engine of TRS
Just like PR said before

3 The OP was treating and using TRS as a version of Superman. So we go by it in this thread. Simple

Argument #3 is all that matters ,tbh.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
BUT its not a "version" of Superman, Literally says it's a suit. It's an object, not a being.

https://i.postimg.cc/fJhNQQc0/enyg.jpg So TRS is a robot/suit/machine which Superman was wearing/piloting/operating/powering.
Like I said before, Nobody denied that.
I already addressed it in my early postS
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
.It was an object no one denied that, But an object that Superman was in control and powered it

How many times you need me to repeat the exact words?
It is an object and it also can be seen as a version of superman for the reasons I posted before.
And most importantly. The OP used it as a version of Superman and we're posting in this thread so we go by it. Can you understand?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So TRS is a robot/suit/machine which Superman was wearing/piloting/operating/powering.
Like I said before, Nobody denied that.
I already addressed it in my early postS

How many times you need me to repeat the exact words?
It is an object and it also can be seen as a version of superman for the reasons I posted before.
And most importantly. The OP used it as a version of Superman and we're posting in this thread so we go by it. Can you understand?

Except it can't, Mentally, it's half Superman. Superman and Ultraman were used to power the consciousness of it, and Superman retained control of it until it died. Physically, of course it isn't Superman at all for like, 99.99999999999...9% of its being. Its size means that Superman and Ultraman are infinitesimal specs within its makeup.

His body didn't become the mech. Physically, he's so insignificant compared to the thing he might as well not exist within it at all. The way he controls it is the mental connection.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except it can't, Mentally, it's half Superman. Superman and Ultraman were used to power the consciousness of it, and Superman retained control of it until it died. Physically, of course it isn't Superman at all for like, 99.99999999999...9% of its being. Its size means that Superman and Ultraman are infinitesimal specs within its makeup. It was his essence/story that powering TRS and using it against Mandrakk
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
@Hulkster
The thought robot is a body of pure thought.And the thought itself is the very essence of Superman - the unbeatable defender from the most powerful story in its very idea/thought form
https://ibb.co/4Y2H2kF
https://ibb.co/NgvYJYN
https://ibb.co/tp0pQpG
And that is why he could fight Mandrakk himself(A hyper-story consumer)
https://ibb.co/wLHzsdj
That's why "Only Superman can save us". The thought robot is Superman - his story in its purest essence.
Even Grant Morrison, The writer of this story said Mandrakk and TRS are two concepts that are oppsite with each other


That was.....So blatant and clear in this comic?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Again, You failed in comprehending the very basic words that I posted.
No, The post was saying TRS was activated by the dualities. But once activated, It was being powered and operated by Superman
That is....Exactly what I'm previously saying in my post
Being Powered by Superman's essence/story

Only activating it needs the dualities

Noting that Adam said the energies were used to broadcast Superman pure essence to TRS not to power it
Again, Do me a favor. Improve your basic reading.
But most importantly: The op said using TRS as a version of Superman. So go by it.
You just constantly repeating yourself and wasting our time.

Simply put: We're discussing in this specific thread which specifically treating and using TRS as a version of Superman. So go by it.