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CISLESS high end only Surfer vs Thanos (CIS applies to him).
Who wins?

Surfer wins.

Thanos

Thanos wins. He has won every physical confrontation that they've had. There's a large gap in power between them as well. For example; Odin casually one shot the Surfer, but was unable to keep Thanos down when going all out against him. Thanos going all out with all powers should one shot.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Surfer wins.

I'm not well read on Surfer. But every confrontation I've seen them in ended with Surfer losing. For people voting Surfer, what does current Surfer bring that I'm missing?

Originally posted by Badabing
I'm not well read on Surfer. But every confrontation I've seen them in ended with Surfer losing. For people voting Surfer, what does current Surfer bring that I'm missing?

Nothing really. However this new Surfer has racked up some cool feats recently, aand he has a slightly different mindset. It will be interesting to see how they interact since they haven't been in the same book in awhile.

It's not about new Surfer.

It's about OP stips.

Thanos still. He isnt effected by CIS like most characters.

Yeah. He's worse

He'll always find a way to **** it all up after obtaining omnipotence.

Originally posted by Badabing
I'm not well read on Surfer. But every confrontation I've seen them in ended with Surfer losing. For people voting Surfer, what does current Surfer bring that I'm missing?

Current Surfer is stuck in intangibility mode, and can't interact physically with others (although he can still blast away with the power cosmic). He can also possess people, but they have to be conscious.

Haven't voted Surfer, but that is what the new Surfer is at.

h1 hasn't read a comic in 40 years, he's not ready to hear about the new BLACK surfer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Current Surfer is stuck in intangibility mode, and can't interact physically with others (although he can still blast away with the power cosmic). He can also possess people, but they have to be conscious.

Haven't voted Surfer, but that is what the new Surfer is at. intangible Surfer was harmed by Cancerverse Captain Marvel due to their cosmic power getting altered by magic just like how Thanos has used dark arts magic incorporated in his powers.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
intangible Surfer was harmed by Cancerverse Captain Marvel due to their cosmic power getting altered by magic just like how Thanos has used dark arts magic incorporated in his powers.

Forgot that, yeah.

Thanos can and has resisted universal plus forces. He'd wipe his butt with Surfer.

What about the arguments against Superman?
FTL speed reflexes, intangibility, etc.
Add in board from behind at a million times the speed of light, singularity in Thanos eyes or inside his body, etc.

Surfer wins

Originally posted by h1a8
What about the arguments against Superman?
FTL speed reflexes, intangibility, etc.
Add in board from behind at a million times the speed of light, singularity in Thanos eyes or inside his body, etc.

No one below skyfather is beating a CISless Surfer. No one and that includes Superman and Thanos, teamed up.

Originally posted by h1a8
What about the arguments against Superman?
FTL speed reflexes, intangibility, etc.
Add in board from behind at a million times the speed of light, singularity in Thanos eyes or inside his body, etc.

Fanfic, member avatar. He doesn't fight like that.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Fanfic, member avatar. He doesn't fight like that.

This is a CISLESS Surfer.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a CISLESS Surfer. you have been here too long to not know what no cis means.

He still has his character.

PIS off, but everything else on, he will use his speed
PIS and CIS off, but character on, he will use his speed and high end feats.
Everything off, he can (if the poster imagines it) use his speed and bite his opponents face off

Originally posted by h1a8
Oh ok. Well now I know. Next time I'll just make a member controlled character. That's what I meant to do.

What is CIS off then?

I just gave a couple of ways. Board from behind traveling at insane speeds. Singularity inside Thanos, etc. And I counter every point with on panel proof.

It wouldn't matter if it's member controlled Surfer, Thanos would still win

Let's say you use Surfer's power to ...open a black hole in Thanos' brain, Thanos has feats to suggest he can tank it

Thanos has survived reality warping affect when he was traveling different planes of existence

and he already survived a black hole that drew everything within a 2 light years radius

Still Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
Oh ok. Well now I know. Next time I'll just make a member controlled character. That's what I meant to do.

What is CIS off then?

I just gave a couple of ways. Board from behind traveling at insane speeds. Singularity inside Thanos, etc.
CIS off Surfer isn't a bloodlusted warrior, or calculating like a Batman.

He'll be more speedy, but imo will still blast and use physicals. It's what his character is like. He's not going to tear his opponents apart like Sentry did to Ares, for example.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
CIS off Surfer isn't a bloodlusted warrior, or calculating like a Batman.

He'll be more speedy, but imo will still blast and use physicals. It's what his character is like. He's not going to tear his opponents apart like Sentry did to Ares, for example.

Pretty much. Hed spam pc blasts and do some stuff with his board. He's not creating black holes when he just got owned by one

Plus Thanos doesn't need to attack on a physical level. H1 has always had it in for Thanos, but it won't change the fact that he can take everything that Norrin can dish. He was operating normally after having the flesh burned off of him recently while striving to attain TOAA status. The Surfer isn't there yet.

Originally posted by h1a8
What is CIS off then?

Would it really kill you to read the forum rules?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
CIS off Surfer isn't a bloodlusted warrior, or calculating like a Batman.

He'll be more speedy, but imo will still blast and use physicals. It's what his character is like. He's not going to tear his opponents apart like Sentry did to Ares, for example.

Please stop explaining what Surfer won't do. Explain what Surfer will do that's different than normal forum Surfer (because we have forum Flash). Explain CISLESS without saying what someone won't do.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Would it really kill you to read the forum rules?

It doesn't give a definition of CIS OFF.
Reading is fundamental.

Hang yourself.

Originally posted by h1a8
Please stop explaining what Surfer won't do. Explain what Surfer will do that's different than normal forum Surfer (because we have forum Flash). Explain CISLESS without saying what someone won't do.

It doesn't matter because it will not work. Thanos is several tiers above the Surfer. Galactus hit him with his best and Thanos survived. This is well above anything that Norrin can muster.

Originally posted by Stoic
It doesn't matter because it will not work. Thanos is several tiers above the Surfer. Galactus hit him with his best and Thanos survived. This is well above anything that Norrin can muster.

I believe blasts from Surfer will do little to nothing.
I'm talking about hitting Thanos with the board from behind at insane speeds (over and over). Creating multiple singularities inside Thanos. Etc.

Originally posted by h1a8
It doesn't give a definition of CIS OFF.
Reading is fundamental.

What do you understand to be CIS off? Based on the acronym.

h1 right now:

https://golfshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/bcf.png

Originally posted by h1a8
Please stop explaining what Surfer won't do. Explain what Surfer will do that's different than normal forum Surfer (because we have forum Flash). Explain CISLESS without saying what someone won't do.

This makes perfect sense. But u have to understand forum flash is a joke character

Originally posted by h1a8
Please stop explaining what Surfer won't do. Explain what Surfer will do that's different than normal forum Surfer (because we have forum Flash). Explain CISLESS without saying what someone won't do.

Woops didn't see this.

OK.

PIS off Surfer will not be tagged by slower characters. He will use his speed defensively.

CIS off Surfer will use his speed offensively.

CIS AND character off Surfer will use his cosmic awareness to pinpoint the exact weakness of his opponent, clone himself into a million Surfers, make them all intangible (except for one or two), then go to town.

Some will transmute the surroundings around the opponent into adamantium
Some will transmute their opponent's blood into adamantium
Some will command their boards (which have also been cloned a million times) to fly at 30 million times C into the back, front and sides of their opponent's head
Some will open black holes in their opponent's eyes
Some will shoot suns at their opponent
Some will throw moons at their opponent
Some will raise shields
Some will absorb all of the opponent's attacks
And the one Surfer clone that isn't intangible will punch REALLY REALLY hard.

All of these Surfers will also do all of the above simultaneously, at six million times C.

Thanos stomps.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Woops didn't see this.

OK.

PIS off Surfer will not be tagged by slower characters. He will use his speed defensively.

CIS off Surfer will use his speed offensively.

CIS AND character off Surfer will use his cosmic awareness to pinpoint the exact weakness of his opponent, clone himself into a million Surfers, make them all intangible (except for one or two), then go to town.

Some will transmute the surroundings around the opponent into adamantium
Some will transmute their opponent's blood into adamantium
Some will command their boards (which have also been cloned a million times) to fly at 30 million times C into the back, front and sides of their opponent's head
Some will open black holes in their opponent's eyes
Some will shoot suns at their opponent
Some will throw moons at their opponent
Some will raise shields
Some will absorb all of the opponent's attacks
And the one Surfer clone that isn't intangible will punch REALLY REALLY hard.

All of these Surfers will also do all of the above simultaneously, at six million times C.

What is CIS AND?
So CIS OFF will do all those things you mentioned?

Originally posted by h1a8
What is CIS AND?
So CIS OFF will do all those things you mentioned?

CIS and character off means a Surfer that ignores character.

CIS off but with his character on won't do all these things I mention.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you understand to be CIS off? Based on the acronym.

I was thinking CIS off means that the character is not limited by their character and will perform things outside of their character. Or does it mean their stupidity is removed and will not do anything that goes against common sense?

But CIS and character off means what you are saying. Ok got you.

I was just confused because you made it seem that CIS off Surfer and forum Surfer had no difference (forum characters don't typically fight like comic characters because of the FULL CAPACITY AND NO PIS RULES).

That's the thing there's no such thing as forum *insert character*. It's a trolling tool used by posters who want to argue powerset. Sure if you or I were Surfer we'd spam miniature suns and black holes at ftl speeds but that's not how the character is portrayed, so no scans to back said argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
I was thinking CIS off means that the character is not limited by their character and will perform things outside of their character. Or does it mean their stupidity is removed and will not do anything that goes against common sense?

But CIS and character off means what you are saying. Ok got you.

I was just confused because you made it seem that CIS off Surfer and forum Surfer had no difference (forum characters don't typically fight like comic characters because of the FULL CAPACITY AND NO PIS RULES).

I once thought as you do, to be fair.

But yes, it means their stupidity is removed (or its corollary, the CIP - Character Inhibited Powers).



Surfer isn't going to fight like an idiot. But neither is he doing half the things I mentioned, even though he has done so in the past - because his character is still there.

Now you could argue his mental speed however will enable him to reach the 'winning' tactic earlier than Thanos - so if blasting doesn't work, then punching, then he'll start busting the exotic attacks out. But he doesn't fight like a Flash or a Superman, and the problem is he has so many 'exotics' to choose from.

Meanwhile, Thanos can just overwhelm him with a punch. Simple, effective, and has worked in the past.

The debate then comes whether Thanos can do so.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That's the thing there's no such thing as forum *insert character*. It's a trolling tool used by posters who want to argue powerset. Sure if you or I were Surfer we'd spam miniature suns and black holes at ftl speeds but that's not how the character is portrayed, so no scans to back said argument.

No one on this site goes by character portrayal. Lol

Originally posted by Sin I AM
This makes perfect sense. But u have to understand forum flash is a joke character

then so is forum surfer

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thanos still. He isnt effected by CIS like most characters.

Originally posted by carver9
No one on this site goes by character portrayal. Lol

Troll

Originally posted by carver9
No one on this site goes by character portrayal. Lol

either way, you wouldn't know

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I once thought as you do, to be fair.

But yes, it means their stupidity is removed (or its corollary, the CIP - Character Inhibited Powers).



Surfer isn't going to fight like an idiot. But neither is he doing half the things I mentioned, even though he has done so in the past - because his character is still there.

Now you could argue his mental speed however will enable him to reach the 'winning' tactic earlier than Thanos - so if blasting doesn't work, then punching, then he'll start busting the exotic attacks out. But he doesn't fight like a Flash or a Superman, and the problem is he has so many 'exotics' to choose from.

Meanwhile, Thanos can just overwhelm him with a punch. Simple, effective, and has worked in the past.

The debate then comes whether Thanos can do so.

Then technically CIS off Surfer is just the same as forum Surfer. Forum Surfer won't fight like an idiot either. I"ll just remember to create CIS off and character off threads when I want us members to control the character.

Originally posted by carver9
No one on this site goes by character portrayal. Lol

Yes, some do. The ones who win debates.

Originally posted by MrMind
then so is forum surfer

I know. I said that

Originally posted by h1a8
Then technically CIS off Surfer is just the same as forum Surfer. Forum Surfer won't fight like an idiot either. I"ll just remember to create CIS off and character off threads when I want us members to control the character.

Youd still lose the debate because you'd have to prove Surfer could do those things on panel and you can't

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yes, some do. The ones who win debates.



I know. I said that



Youd still lose the debate because you'd have to prove Surfer could do those things on panel and you can't
Prove what things?
Forum Surfer can only do things that he has shown evidence towards in comics.

The only things I gave was hit Thanos from behind with the board traveling at insane speeds, create black holes on or in Thanos, and use his light speed reflexes, Shields, and super speed to avoid attacks.

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove what things?
Forum Surfer can only do things that he has shown evidence towards in comics.

The only things I gave was hit Thanos from behind with the board traveling at insane speeds, create black holes on or in Thanos, and use his light speed reflexes, Shields, and super speed to avoid attacks.

He hasn't shown evidence of what you're using as an argument in comics. Sure he could do the behind the back board trick but seriously how often do you think that tactic would succeed? He's never created a black hole in anyone and the last time he encountered a black hole he was tossed back in time. Light speed sure, speed sure, shields sure...but speed, shields etc has never been a determining factor in his fights with Thanos. He always gets wrecked.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He hasn't shown evidence of what you're using as an argument in comics. Sure he could do the behind the back board trick but seriously how often do you think that tactic would succeed? He's never created a black hole in anyone and the last time he encountered a black hole he was tossed back in time. Light speed sure, speed sure, shields sure...but speed, shields etc has never been a determining factor in his fights with Thanos. He always gets wrecked.

Created a black hole inside someone.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/1472575-annihilation_silversurfer1_017.jpg

And easily.

Originally posted by carver9
Created a black hole inside someone.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/1472575-annihilation_silversurfer1_017.jpg

And easily.

Stop

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Stop

No.

His idiocy cannot stop
Sin is actually being nice to you, Carver. She's trying to tell you to stop making an idiot out of yourself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His idiocy cannot stop
Sin is actually being nice to you, Carver. She's trying to tell you to stop making an idiot out of yourself.

I think carvers memory resets daily and he forgets everything except for random misinterpreted scans

my understanding was surfer created a black hole from his energy discharge, when he escaped from ravenous.

surfer didn't create a black hole inside air-walker body. the comics clear either way

To be clear and fair, the Surfer can create black holes, while Thanos can eat his dinner in the heart of them. Thanos has survived far more, and he can also translocate, in order to mystically ruin the Surfer on the Astral Plane.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
It's circumstantial and out of context

Whats the context?

Originally posted by MrMind
my understanding was surfer created a black hole from his energy discharge, when he escaped from ravenous.

surfer didn't create a black hole inside air-walker body. the comics clear either way

Here's the scene. Show me what you're talking about...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/1472575-annihilation_silversurfer1_017.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/1472573-annihilation_silversurfer1_018.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Whats the context?

That he couldn't pull that shit in combat or that it would even matter since Thanos can tank black holes or that even if he could pull it off mid battle against someone who has consistently wrecked him he'd bfr himself since it's proven on panels he can't withstand black holes.

the black hole should be from the expanding energy discharge from surfer when he was escaping

again, the comics wasn't clear either way.

https://i.imgur.com/dFM0H8M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uX182kU.jpg

Besides... Carver, don't you always talks about combat feats? Why the double standards?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That he couldn't pull that shit in combat or that it would even matter since Thanos can tank black holes or that even if he could pull it off mid battle against someone who has consistently wrecked him he'd bfr himself since it's proven on panels he can't withstand black holes.

He punched him and put the energy there. Why couldn't he do that in combat?

Originally posted by MrMind
the black hole should be from the expanding energy discharge from surfer when he was escaping

again, the comics wasn't clear either way.

https://i.imgur.com/dFM0H8M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uX182kU.jpg

Not what happened. He puts the energy inside of him and then flies off. Read the panel. He destroyed his body (with the black hole) because he didn't want them disgracing his body.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think carvers memory resets daily and he forgets everything except for random misinterpreted scans

Lol at misinterpreting scans.

Originally posted by carver9
He punched him and put the energy there. Why couldn't he do that in combat?

Double standards smh.

Originally posted by carver9
Probably did, even though Bada said keep things as normal. Doesnt take away from what I said. Making a sandwich at Super speed doesnt translate into combat speed,

Combat speed is the key here.

Wait, did Carver really say that shit?

Oh ****, he did.

That's what I'm finding so hilarious.

Anyone can find it, tbh. Just do an advanced search for 'sandwich' by Carver9. Check the sheer number of posts that come up. All by good old Carb, who insists on combat only feats as if they're a special category.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wait, did Carver really say that shit?

Oh ****, he did.

Lol...say what?

I'm still unsure if he's that stupid or a troll, tbh lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...say what?

Originally posted by carver9
He punched him and put the energy there. Why couldn't he do that in combat?


Double standards smh.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Probably did, even though Bada said keep things as normal. Doesnt take away from what I said. Making a sandwich at Super speed doesnt translate into combat speed,

Combat speed is the key here. smile

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm still unsure if he's that stupid or a troll, tbh lol.

https://i.imgur.com/cwBJBKk.gif

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Originally posted by carver9
He punched him and put the energy there. Why couldn't he do that in combat?


Double standards smh.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Probably did, even though Bada said keep things as normal. Doesnt take away from what I said. Making a sandwich at Super speed doesnt translate into combat speed,

Combat speed is the key here. smile

Hey, in a thread where they are arguing a certain way, join them. Dorksaint is by far the weirdest person on this site second to Mr. Mind and he seeks attention, so I gave it to him.

Originally posted by carver9
Not what happened. He puts the energy inside of him and then flies off. Read the panel. He destroyed his body (with the black hole) because he didn't want them disgracing his body.


except you see the seekers jump out of the black hole and survived, they were at the center of the black hole. the black hole surfer created when he was battling ravenous.
https://imgur.com/a/748gB6x

surfer and air-walker was light years away from where the black hole was created
https://imgur.com/a/2HcdbXm

Originally posted by carver9
Hey, in a thread where they are arguing a certain way, join them. Dorksaint is by far the weirdest person on this site second to Mr. Mind and he seeks attention, so I gave it to him. ]

So trolling, got ya.

.

Originally posted by MrMind
except you see the seekers jump out of the black hole and survived, they were at the center of the black hole. the black hole surfer created when he was battling ravenous.
https://imgur.com/a/748gB6x

surfer and air-walker was light years away from where the black hole was created
https://imgur.com/a/2HcdbXm

We see the discharge here when he's flying off. Lol... no sign of a black hole anywhere are destruction or anything until he flies away from him...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/1472573-annihilation_silversurfer1_018.jpg

no this is what the energy discharge looks like

https://i.imgur.com/dFM0H8M.jpg

He was weakened AF when he created those Suns.

Originally posted by MrMind
no this is what the energy discharge looks like

https://i.imgur.com/dFM0H8M.jpg

We don't see anything until AFTER he put that energy into AW and flew off. Nothing.

Originally posted by carver9
He was weakened AF when he created those Suns.

And how was he weakened carver?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
And how was he weakened carver?

Be honest, did you read the story?. I can post the book here if you need it. Theres more where he stated he was (and still is) weakened.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52879966/SmartSelect_20200503-115132_Chrome.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52879979/SmartSelect_20200503-115207_Chrome.jpg.html

He even says it pages before creating a sun...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52881810/SmartSelect_20200503-115806_Chrome.jpg.html

Lol....

Originally posted by carver9
Be honest, did you read the story. I can post the book here if you need it. Theres more where he stated he was (and still is) weakened.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52879966/SmartSelect_20200503-115132_Chrome.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52879979/SmartSelect_20200503-115207_Chrome.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
He even says it pages before creating a sun...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/52881810/SmartSelect_20200503-115806_Chrome.jpg.html

Lol....



He started the series in a weakened state.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


He started the series in a weakened state.

Yep. It ended as well with him being weakened because of the black.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He hasn't shown evidence of what you're using as an argument in comics. Sure he could do the behind the back board trick but seriously how often do you think that tactic would succeed? He's never created a black hole in anyone and the last time he encountered a black hole he was tossed back in time. Light speed sure, speed sure, shields sure...but speed, shields etc has never been a determining factor in his fights with Thanos. He always gets wrecked.

How can you not know that Surfer created black holes inside beings before? That's basic comic knowledge. Where do you even think we get the whole black hole thing anyway? So now you admit you were wrong about Surfer doing shit I named right? It seems so since you changed the goalposts (it won't succeed). You don't win debates by being wrong and not admitting to your mistakes. You lose credibility that way.

Second, how can Surfer gets wreck if he is using light speed reflexes and using his speed and Shields to avoid being hit? Thanos isn't a speedster.

Why wouldn't the board from behind succeed? Surfer can do it over and over and win the battle of attrition with just that tactic only.

And this isn't a comic fight. This is a forum fight where there is no PIS and we have FULL CAPACITY rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
black inside beings tactic

H1 and Sin going at it...

Who would win?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
H1 and Sin going at it...

Who would win? Sin would break him in half , H1 is just a wet blanket.

Wet blanket

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
H1 and Sin going at it...

Who would win?

Sin in the first round.

And not by a knockout. It would be murder.

Originally posted by h1a8
How can you not know that Surfer created black holes inside beings before? That's basic comic knowledge. Where do you even think we get the whole black hole thing anyway? So now you admit you were wrong about Surfer doing shit I named right? It seems so since you changed the goalposts (it won't succeed). You don't win debates by being wrong and not admitting to your mistakes. You lose credibility that way.

Second, how can Surfer gets wreck if he is using light speed reflexes and using his speed and Shields to avoid being hit? Thanos isn't a speedster.

Why wouldn't the board from behind succeed? Surfer can do it over and over and win the battle of attrition with just that tactic only.

And this isn't a comic fight. This is a forum fight where there is no PIS and we have FULL CAPACITY rules.

Surfers manipulation of Air Walkers energies is circumstantial. This has been debated to death. Current Surfer who is as close to being this cisless character was owned by a black hole. Those mini suns he created further weakened him...so your argument is that without cis he's gonna spam suns (which weaken him), black holes (which weaken him), ftl speed and spamming blasts?

Sigh

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh

Your butthurt is apparent ..get a grip

Where did creating a black hole and sun weaken him?

no, I've read the issue multiple times. you guys are not understanding the comic correctly, black hole is not the continuiation result of previous scan. I've said it 4 times already, don't make me repeat again.
thanos said the black hole was due to energy discharge of surfer
we see surfer energy expanding when he was escaping from the seekers.
then he was lightyears away, where he killed air-walker
then you see a black hole from far away, where seekers jump out of it. seekers were still at the battlefield, the same battlefield where surfer was exploding white energy, where the black hole was formed

2 keys
1. energy discharge- energy discharge didn't happen where lights shoot out of air walker, it happened earlier when surfer released power cosmic
2. seekers survived the black hole, where you see them coming out of the center, seekers were not at where air-walker died, that was light years away.

Originally posted by carver9
Where did creating a black hole and sun weaken him?

Silver Surfer Black #1

surfer said "seekers cannot track us through the energy i unleashed."
thanos said "black hole brought about by silver surfer's energy discharge"

unleash is discharge

then we literally see ravenous and seekers fly out of the center of the black hole. they can't be from where air-walker exploded, because they can't track surfer

https://imgur.com/a/5rApwN5

Originally posted by Sin I AM

That doesn't really hold up Sin, how characters can hold up to blackholes can vary as wildly as anything else in comics. Surfer has multiple instances of not being taken out by blackholes to his credit too(up to and including basically being totally unaffected by them) which would logically take priority in an "at their best" scenario forum fight with a No CIS stipulation.

That's not to say that I think Surfer necessarily wins or anything like that, just that Surfer deserves the same benefit of a doubt that we'd give Supes if he got trapped in a bear hug without becoming intangible via superspeed to escape. It doesn't mean that their previously established high level of ability has been reduced, it means that interesting stories are what writers are trying to tell.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't really hold up Sin, how characters can hold up to blackholes can vary as wildly as anything else in comics. Surfer has multiple instances of not being taken out by blackholes to his credit too(up to and including basically being totally unaffected by them) which would logically take priority in an "at their best" scenario forum fight with a No CIS stipulation.

That's not to say that I think Surfer necessarily wins or anything like that, just that Surfer deserves the same benefit of a doubt that we'd give Supes if he got trapped in a bear hug without becoming intangible via superspeed to escape. It doesn't mean that their previously established high level of ability has been reduced, it means that interesting stories are what writers are trying to tell.

Aren't we using the current most powerful version of the character? If so then the same comic where he uses the mini sun feat is highballed but getting weakened by a black hole is tossed out because consistency. Just not a fan of cherry picking feats no matter how you slice it

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Silver Surfer Black #1

Huh? He created more than one sun during this run while weakened. Full power, it should literally do nothing to him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Aren't we using the current most powerful version of the character? If so then the same comic where he uses the mini sun feat is highballed but getting weakened by a black hole is tossed out because consistency. Just not a fan of cherry picking feats no matter how you slice it
I don't think H1 meant for it to specifically be the black version of Surfer if that's what you mean. But even in a single comic giant inconsistencies in power levels like that can happen. Doomsday kicked Superman harder than Supes had ever been hit by anyone(Darkseid, PC Kryptonians, etc), and then failed to kill Booster Gold with repeated strikes even though he was specifically without his forcefield. Now personally I'm not a fan of just how much power Surfer was throwing around during the Black arc so I tend to take the whole damn series with a pinch of salt and I can totally understand what your saying about it all lacking a desired level of consistency, but all we have to work with is what they give us and ultimately they just don't care as much as we do lol

didn't Jon Kent survive black hole?

Originally posted by Sin I AM

Sin, where was it stated that it was Air Walkers energy that was manipulated to make said so blackhole? Fact it is specifically stated on panel that it was Surfer energy discharge that cause the blackhole as mention by Thanos, there is absolutely no specific about Airwalkers energies contribution towards the feat.

https://i.imgur.com/ubSYwDCs.jpg

Are you referencing to GoG #1 and SS Black #1, You've left out a lot of details there Sin. First off it was an ambush and second he left himself open to the forces of blackhole to save every freakin one who was taken of guard and thrown into that blackhole.

https://i.imgur.com/hVtnlZf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7LpkDez.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YODbdtP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RjJrA4c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4UhVxaB.jpg

As you can see his attention was divided; from keeping everyone safe while in blackhole and finding a way to get everyone out from the inside by tearing said so blackhole to let everyone out.

Here's what he can do when his full attention is on himself defensive and offensively, that should pretty much prove he can withstood blackhole.

https://i.imgur.com/MG2Cy2a.jpg

You misunderstand why he was weakened in SS Black arc, its not because of spamming multiple sun/star but the lack of ambient energy present within that arc, as in Knull destroyed any semblance of light within that time period therefore no energy present to replenish his PC. That + blackhole + battle = weakened SS.

He was trap for years and weakened inside the blackhole. (withstanding inside blackhole for years)

https://imgur.com/JdT9yqI
https://i.imgur.com/3DBpUrb.jpg

here it shows he replenish himself with Ego energy blast after his reserve run out.

https://imgur.com/BCydAFd
https://imgur.com/mrGFix3
https://imgur.com/TTsMpcK

Point is that you left a lot of detailed information regarding what you claimed.
A CISless Surfer without this disadvantage can very much spam sun/star/blackhole multiple times before running out of PC.
Originally posted by MrMind
no, I've read the issue multiple times. you guys are not understanding the comic correctly, black hole is not the continuiation result of previous scan. I've said it 4 times already, don't make me repeat again.
thanos said the black hole was due to energy discharge of surfer
we see surfer energy expanding when he was escaping from the seekers.
then he was lightyears away, where he killed air-walker
then you see a black hole from far away, where seekers jump out of it. seekers were still at the battlefield, the same battlefield where surfer was exploding white energy, where the black hole was formed

2 keys
1. energy discharge- energy discharge didn't happen where lights shoot out of air walker, it happened earlier when surfer released power cosmic
2. seekers survived the black hole, where you see them coming out of the center, seekers were not at where air-walker died, that was light years away.
Dude your not making any feekin sense! here lets go page by Page lol

Silver Surfer Annihilation # 13 - Surfer fights Ravenous..

https://imgur.com/Dw7fTSd

Silver Surfer Annihilation # 14 - Surfer unleash massive energies that makes the Seekers unable to track them.

https://imgur.com/FW26p4U

Silver Surfer Annihilation #15 - traveled light years away in seconds and stop at a meteorite.

https://imgur.com/hSpRFYx

Silver Surfer Annihilation #17 - Surfer put energy time bomb

https://imgur.com/hSpRFYx

Silver Surfer Annihilation #18 - Energy bomb explodes while Surfer is flying away, creating a blackhole.

https://imgur.com/Y9xmOPd

Silver Surfer Annihilation #19 - Thanos explains that blackhole was a side effect of Surfer's energy discharge.

https://imgur.com/QGCkqXs

clear and straight to the point, I don't really understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this and what the heck is your argumentation anyway ??? Surfer did not create blackhole???

Originally posted by abhilegend
That was a miniature sun and get this, the black hole was tearing Surfer apart.



So much for "chilling in the black holes", eh?
lol you're leaving a lot of detailed info again there Abby!

and you do know that even after all the energy he expend helping everyone out of said so blackhole he stayed within for years and then fough freaking Knull and his armies and makin stars/sun. Downplaying that is a Sin Abby ...

http://i.imgur.com/JdT9yqI.jpg

I have created a monster in Ambient.

I am happy

Thanks a lot Saint! I was happy bein away from comics for years and you just had to drag me back. Lol

Apart from the art, I thought Surfer Black was a great story. It at least mixed things up for Surfer, something a bit different.

Yeah it was different! It was among the few I like, Requiem and Ron Lim stretch 3rd release was the most memorable ones, I can think off.

Originally posted by h1a8
How can you not know that Surfer created black holes inside beings before? That's basic comic knowledge. Where do you even think we get the whole black hole thing anyway? So now you admit you were wrong about Surfer doing shit I named right? It seems so since you changed the goalposts (it won't succeed). You don't win debates by being wrong and not admitting to your mistakes. You lose credibility that way.

Second, how can Surfer gets wreck if he is using light speed reflexes and using his speed and Shields to avoid being hit? Thanos isn't a speedster.

Why wouldn't the board from behind succeed? Surfer can do it over and over and win the battle of attrition with just that tactic only.

And this isn't a comic fight. This is a forum fight where there is no PIS and we have FULL CAPACITY rules.
Because he still has his character.

You're basically arguing Superman or Flash rushing up to their opponents and biting their faces off at light speed.

Can Superman bite? Yes.
Does he have speed? Yes.
Would it win the fight? By laws of attrition with constant chunks of flesh being torn out, Yes.
Would Superman with his intelligence know/assume this? Yes.

So Superman starts every full capacity and no PIS rule match by tearing his opponent's throat out with his teeth? No.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because he still has his character.

You're basically arguing Superman or Flash rushing up to their opponents and biting their faces off at light speed.

Can Superman bite? Yes.
Does he have speed? Yes.
Would it win the fight? By laws of attrition with constant chunks of flesh being torn out, Yes.
Would Superman with his intelligence know/assume this? Yes.

So Superman starts every full capacity and no PIS rule match by tearing his opponent's throat out with his teeth? No.

You know you are quoting me out of context right?
My post was in response to Sin stating Surfer has never did certain things. It had nothing to do what's in character or not. That can be argued separately.

And although Superman has never bit anyone, he WILL if he knows that's the only way to win.

No one here, as far as I know, has argued things Surfer will do that he didn't already.

If you disagree then kindly show what thing Surfer is stated to do that he never did in a comic.

Originally posted by h1a8
You know you are quoting me out of context right?
My post was in response to Sin stating Surfer has never did certain things. It had nothing to do what's in character or not. That can be argued separately.

And although Superman has never bit anyone, he WILL if he knows that's the only way to win.

No one here, as far as I know, has argued things Surfer will do that he didn't already.

If you disagree then kindly show what thing Surfer is stated to do that he never did in a comic.

I think the quibble at this point is creating black holes within combat. Just like Superman hasn't bit anyone in combat (but has bitten things before, just not in a combat role).

Surfer wins

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Surfer wins lets see you try and prove it.

Surfer is smart enough to punch black holes into people. Its within his capabilities of doing. Surfer wins via going intangible and then proceeding at punch black holes into Thanos for the win at light speed.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
lets see you try and prove it.

What happens when Thanos is a baby?

Then baby Thanos murders Surfer.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What happens when Thanos is a baby? Nothing happens. Do you even understand how CIS even works.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Nothing happens. Do you even understand how CIS even works.

kid I've been doing this debating stuff way before Thanos was your favorite.

THERES no way THANOS is touching a NON CIS Surfer. Tell me how Thanos is touching a Surfer that's phased through ETERNITY. I'll wait

If you want the scan let me know

Quite why you lot entertain Albert I don't know lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think the quibble at this point is creating black holes within combat. Just like Superman hasn't bit anyone in combat (but has bitten things before, just not in a combat role).
The problem is that Superman WILL bite someone in combat IF HE KNOWS that is the only way to win. I agree that Surfer isn't going to create a black hole from jump street. But if he sees that nothing else is working then it is something he might think about eventually (assuming the battle goes on long enough). After all, Surfer is the king of beating foes in the most exotic and creative ways imaginable (like classic Thor used to do).