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Fight takes place in the Geonosis battle arena.

The only way to leave the arena is to kill your opponent.

Dooku gets rag dolled continuously.

Ahsoka wins.

She preformed better against Vader than Dooku preformed against Anakin.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahsoka wins.

She preformed better against Vader than Dooku preformed against Anakin.

Cool but reckon Dooku will have the advantage of force lightening ?

I guess if Dooku uses force lightening wisely he could perhaps win ?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahsoka wins.

She preformed better against Vader than Dooku preformed against Anakin. Was Vader trying to kill her though?

Originally posted by Galan007
Maybe. Maybe not.

Wow thats quite an impressive feat , what sort of attack was Ahsoka blocking in that pic exactly and who from ?

Originally posted by Galan007
Maybe. Maybe not.

https://youtu.be/Yg8mUrtHjRQ

Oh yeah cool found it, impressive but she struggled to block it alone needed ezras help then eventually gave up and escaped etc : but still pretty good i guess.. Not sure if its powerful then sidiouses Force lightening though

Dooku mid diff. Ashoka wank is about to go off the charts.

Tyranus kills her, also im tired of seeing that "feat", that was Sith magic that Ashoka barely held off not Sidious' lightning

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Was Vader trying to kill her though? I always thought he was hesitant during that fight.

Originally posted by NTJack0
I always thought he was hesitant during that fight.

Debatable at the start... But once she cuts his helmet he tells her she will die

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Was Vader trying to kill her though? Yeah, he wanted Ahsoka dead.

Filoni: " wants to destroy Ahsoka because she represents his past. She represents knowledge of who he was and he wants to wipe that out. His son represents a potential future because his son wouldn't know who he was. So he could build a new galaxy together with his son. His apprentice is his past and he needs to destroy her."


Originally posted by relentless1
im tired of seeing that "feat", that was Sith magic that Ashoka barely held off not Sidious' lightning It was Sith magic so potent that Palpatine used it to rip into TWBW without a proper gateway. Is it the same thing as Force Lightning? No. Is it still logically a very powerful ability that Ahsoka deflected with the Force? Yes. Does that mean she can also repel FL in a similar manner? Maybe, maybe not... Just throwing it out there as a possibility.

Either way, Palpatine > Dooku, so Ahsoka's ability(or lack thereof) to repel Palpatine's FL is irrelevant here. At the very least, Dooku's lightning can still be deflected with her sabers.

And as I mentioned: Ahsoka preformed better against Vader than Dooku preformed against Anakin... And in canon, Rebels Vader > RotS Anakin.

Originally posted by Galan007

And as I mentioned: Ahsoka preformed better against Vader than Dooku preformed against Anakin... And in canon, Rebels Vader > RotS Anakin.

Dooku's performance against Kenobi is far better than Ahsoka's against Maul's and in canon Kenobi>Maul.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku mid diff. Ashoka wank is about to go off the charts. Ahsoka wank is well deserved. She stalemated a Darth Vader that was trying to kill her.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Ahsoka wank is well deserved. She stalemated a Darth Vader that was trying to kill her.

She didn't stalemate him, Vader was about to kill her when Ezra saved her. Ultimate Star Wars confirms that she was "doomed" before that. Not to mention that Ahsoka having been trained by Vader is stated to be an advantage for her in rebels bts.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
She didn't stalemate him, Vader was about to kill her when Ezra saved her. Ultimate Star Wars confirms that she was "doomed" before that. Not to mention that Ahsoka having been trained by Vader is stated to be an advantage for her in rebels bts. Ok maybe stalemate isnt the right word. But as Galan pointed out she did alot better against Vader than Dooku did against Anakin. Though Dooku was holding back against Anakin per Palpatines orders.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Ok maybe stalemate isnt the right word. But as Galan pointed out she did alot better against Vader than Dooku did against Anakin. Though Dooku was holding back against Anakin per Palpatines orders.

1. I don't really agree with that assessment.
2. We only know Vader>Anakin we don't know to what degree
3. Again Dooku bodies Kenobi in both their encounters even with Anakin there, whereas Ahsoka gets held back by Maul.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's performance against Kenobi is far better than Ahsoka's against Maul's and in canon Kenobi>Maul. Ahsoka's fight with Maul in Rebels was literally 20 seconds long, and ended with her allowing a blinded Kanan to finish the job. Hardly enough to draw any conclusions, imo.

But as mentioned, we have a common denominator between Dooku and Ahsoka in the form of Anakin: Ahsoka contended pretty well against Vader(who is > RotS Anakin), whereas Dooku was decisively stomped by RotS Anakin in under a minute.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not to mention that Ahsoka having been trained by Vader is stated to be an advantage for her in rebels bts. How much of an advantage could it have possibly given her, though?

After RotS, Vader created a new lightsaber style for himself in order to overcome the bulk of his armor -- so it's not like she would have known what to expect there. On top of that, Vader was also fighting differently in general, and fully embracing emotions that he never would have as a Jedi.

So again, not sure how Ahsoka's Jedi training under Anakin would have realistically helped her much at all against Vader..? He was a completely different animal than Anakin.

Dooku was following orders from Sidious during that fight and was fighting loosely. They were baiting Anakin.

Dooku thought Sidious would help him if the plan went wrong.

At first, perhaps. But once Kenobi was incapacitated and it was Dooku and Anakin one-on-one, there is no indication that Dooku was holding back. Anakin legitimately stomped him by briefly tapping into his rage(effectively showcasing a taste of the power he would wield as Vader.)

Dooku thought Sidious would help him if the plan went off track which he never did. Dooku had no reason to go all out hence no Force Lightning which was very common for Dooku to use if things got heated.

Dooku wrongly thinking that Palpatine would help him doesn't mean Dooku was holding back. It just means Palpatine duped Dooku into thinking that he'd save him if things came to that... Which he was obviously never going to do, cuz Sith.

As mentioned, there is no indication that Dooku was holding back once it was just he and Anakin fighting.

Thinking someone will help you if things go wrong is every reason to hold back especially when they told you to hold back.

He wasn't holding back. That would defeat the entire purpose of their fight, which was for Sidious to see who the better apprentice was. He of course would not want to keep the weaker of the two as an apprentice. He wanted the strongest and that was obvs Anakin.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahsoka's fight with Maul in Rebels was literally 20 seconds long, and ended with her allowing a blinded Kanan to finish the job. Hardly enough to draw any conclusions, imo.

That's a reach. From 10:27-11:47 the battle is clearly off-screen. That's hardly "20 seconds". It's a solid minute at least that she cannot get past Maul. 20 seconds, on the other hand, is how long it took Dooku to track Obi-Wan. Also if she was able to stomp Maul the way Dooku stomped Kenobi, she would have. It was an urgent situation.



Not really. "Stomped" comes from the ROTS novel and Legends. Only Dooku on screen is clearly toying with Anakin up until the last 10 seconds of the duel where he blocks his blow with one hand and a huge grin on his face. He was caught off guard not overwhelmed.

"An enraged Anakin continued the fight, unleashing a strength Dooku had not anticipated."

"Obi-Wan and Anakin challenged the Sith Lord as a team. Dooku proved to be a formidable opponent."



The longest duel in the series was against Kenobi and Skywalker. When you spar for hours on end for years you get an intimate knowledge of the way how someone fights. It would certainly provide some edge.



Ahsoka hadn't trained with Anakin in over a decade, her lightsaber abilities had evolved as well and yet Filoni still believes that he could beat her in canon interviews because he trained her. Read into that further and it's the training that goes into it.

And if he was a completely different animal and pretty much a totally different duelist than comparing Vader to Anakin and their performances against Ahsoka and Dooku becomes a moot point. They have different styles, Anakin pushes to overwhelm whereas Vader has longer duels that wear out his combatants even when they are inferior to him like Ahsoka and Kenobi on the Death Star.

Originally posted by Sheev
He wasn't holding back. That would defeat the entire purpose of their fight, which was for Sidious to see who the better apprentice was. He of course would not want to keep the weaker of the two as an apprentice. He wanted the strongest and that was obvs Anakin. I'm fairly certain Sidious knew Anakin had more potential than Dooku did.

Stark- "I don't like it, so I'm gonna come up with a bunch of half ass excuses that make no sense".

Like galan said- Anakin stomped Dooku after embracing his rage. The 2014 junior novel also says this.

In other words, "rage boost" Anakin was able to rape Dooku in a matter of seconds. On the flip side Ahsoka gave Vader a good fight. Certainly lasted longer than Dooku against an overall stronger foe.

Ahsoka take this. Get your feefees out of here lol.

Dooku was playing his part per orders of Sidious which was to set up a trap to lure Anakin.

Dooku was holding back.

No he wasn't. Stop making things up.

I'm not.

Dooku was playing his part in a ruse set up by Palpatine to test Anakin in which Dooku was told by Sidious that he would help him if the plan went astray. It's all from canon sources.

So Dooku thinking that Sidious wouldn't let Anakin kill him means Dooku was holding back? Please, lol.

If I was in a sanctioned UFC fight with Conor McGregor, I'd like to think the ref would stop Conor from repeatedly bashing my head until brain matter was coming out of my ears, but that doesn't mean I would be holding back against him.

You are posting nonsense. Anakin straight up raped Dooku. Dooku thought Sidious would save him from getting decapitated, but he didn't. That's all.

The whole notion of Dooku holding back is from the original rots novel, correct? If so, that same novel paints a great picture of what's going on in Dooku's head during the duel. He was clearly outmatched.

Fine that Ahsoka could do better against Vader. But she can only dream to replace Dooku's feats against either Kenobi or Yoda.

And I think that Shitsney canon should be removed.

Fine that Ahsoka could do better against Vader. But she can only dream to replace Dooku's feats against either Kenobi or Yoda.

Dooku kills her without difficulty with either FL, TK or lighsbater.

And I think that Shitsney canon should be removed.

Originally posted by Sheev
So Dooku thinking that Sidious wouldn't let Anakin kill him means Dooku was holding back? Please, lol.

If I was in a sanctioned UFC fight with Conor McGregor, I'd like to think the ref would stop Conor from repeatedly bashing my head until brain matter was coming out of my ears, but that doesn't mean I would be holding back against him.

You are posting nonsense. Anakin straight up raped Dooku. Dooku thought Sidious would save him from getting decapitated, but he didn't. That's all. I posted stuff straight from canon sources and it's fine that you don't like it but Dooku plain and simple was following a plan laid out by Sidious.

If Dooku was really trying he would have utilized his Force Lightning more often which is something Dooku used very often. But he was following order to trap Anakin.

You haven't posted anything "straight from canon sources" though. There are no quotes or videos posted by you in this thread.

Anyway, as has been pointed out, the entire point was for Anakin to surpass Dooku. It was a test set up by Sidious. Dooku holding back would undermine the whole point of it. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that Dooku wasn't holding back. This is true even of the EU. Initially, Dooku held back but once he began to realize he was in real danger he ceased to do so.

Originally posted by ares834
You haven't posted anything "straight from canon sources" though. There are no quotes or videos posted by you in this thread.

Anyway, as has been pointed out, the entire point was for Anakin to surpass Dooku. It was a test set up by Sidious. Dooku holding back would undermine the whole point of it. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that Dooku wasn't holding back. This is true even of the EU. Initially, Dooku held back but once he began to realize he was in real danger he ceased to do so. Originally posted by juggernaut74
I'm not.

Dooku was playing his part in a ruse set up by Palpatine to test Anakin in which Dooku was told by Sidious that he would help him if the plan went astray. It's all from canon sources. Eveything I said was true per canon sources. I just am waiting to post them but I haven't a need to yet.

Of course there is. You are claiming stuff but without providing any evidence. Furthermore, you then go on and claim that you've posted said evidence. Ridiculous.

Regardless, as has been pointed out, Dooku holding back completely undermines the whole point of the test in the first place. So your argument holds no water.

Originally posted by ares834
Of course there is. You are claiming stuff but without providing any evidence. Furthermore, you then go on and claim that you've posted said evidence. Ridiculous.

Regardless, as has been pointed out, Dooku holding back completely undermines the whole point of the test in the first place. So your argument holds no water. I never said I posted the sources I said what I typed was from canon sources. I haven't posted them yet because I'm waiting to see your evidence.

Dooku was playing his part following a plan laid out by Sidious to test Anakin to see if he could be lured to the dark side and he was told by Sidious that if things went astray that he would help him. Dook was unprepared for Sidious' treachery.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I never said I posted the sources I said what I typed was from canon sources. I haven't posted them yet because I'm waiting to see your evidence.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I posted stuff straight from canon sources

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Dooku was playing his part following a plan laid out by Sidious to test Anakin to see if he could be lured to the dark side and he was told by Sidious that if things went astray that he would help him. Dook was unprepared for Sidious' treachery.

And the actual test is to see if Anakin has surpassed Dooku. This is how Sith work. Once again, it's pointless if Dooku held back.

Originally posted by ares834
Of course there is. You are claiming stuff but without providing any evidence. Furthermore, you then go on and claim that you've posted said evidence. Ridiculous.

Regardless, as has been pointed out, Dooku holding back completely undermines the whole point of the test in the first place. So your argument holds no water.

It ain't worth the trouble.... Don't waste your energy on this guy.

That being said, I still think Dooku would win a slight majority in this fight.

Originally posted by ares834
And the actual test is to see if Anakin has surpassed Dooku. This is how Sith work. Once again, it's pointless if Dooku held back. No, the test was to see if they could lure him to the dark side.

Wrong. This is very basic stuff here.

But if you need direct evidence. Per Lucas from the commentary, "The idea is that Palaptine is testing Anakin to see if he is strong enough to become his apprentice." By defeating and killing Dooku, Anakin proved himself to be "more powerful" (direct quote from Sidious comparing Anakin and Dooku's powers) and therefore worthy.

Originally posted by ares834
Wrong. This is very basic stuff here.

But if you need direct evidence. Per Lucas from the commentary, "The idea is that Palaptine is testing Anakin to see if he is strong enough to become his apprentice." By defeating and killing Dooku, Anakin proved himself to be "more powerful" (direct quote from Sidious comparing Anakin and Dooku's powers) and therefore worthy. Source?

Because my source states: "the abduction is an elaborate rouse, engineered to ensnare Anakin and test him to determine whether he can be turned to the dark side. Dooku realizes too late that the test involves Anakin taking his life."

I literally stated the source. It's a quote from Lucas from the commentary.

Originally posted by ares834
I literally stated the source. It's a quote from Lucas from the commentary. Yea, you edited your post before I was done quoting you.

I thought Galan said in another thread that Lucas comments aren't canon anymore?

I didn't edit that. That was always in my original post. Look at what you quoted.

And while I disagree with Galan's assertion that Lucas's comments aren't canon; I think it fairly obvious that the commentaries, being officially published materiel, are.

Originally posted by ares834
I didn't edit that. That was always in my original post. Look at what you quoted.

And while I disagree with Galan's assertion that Lucas's comments aren't canon; I think it fairly obvious that the commentaries, being officially published materiel, are. It very well says you edited your post at 7:37 and your original post was 7:33, I posted at 7:39 so yes you did.

My source is from Disney canon and it's from the 2015 Star Wars Ultimate Guide so yes the test was to see if they could lure him to the dark side not to see if he was stronger than Dooku.

Like I said, I didn't edit that. It was always in my original post. I made a grammatical change. Once again, look at the quote within your post. It's there.

And you think that some random ass guide overturns a direct statement from Lucas in the movie's commentary? Ok then... I'm done with this nonsense.

Originally posted by ares834
Like I said, I didn't edit that. It was always in my original post. I made a grammatical change. Once again, look at the quote within your post. It's there.

And you think that some random ass guide overturns a direct statement from Lucas in the movie's commentary? Ok then... I'm done with this nonsense. Well like it or not that is what the rules are nowadays. They were testing Anakin, Dooku didn't know that Sidious was planning on breaking the plan hence the "Dooku realises too late" quote.

It's canon.

Nope. I wouldn't put a random guide over the commentary and, as far as I'm aware, there is no rule that says as such.

But, funnily enough, it doesn't contradict Lucas's statement anyway. The test could easily (and in fact did) test both Anakin's strength and the possibility to turn him to the dark side. So, once more, your argument falls flat.

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. I wouldn't put a random guide over the commentary and, as far as I'm aware, there is no rule that says as such.

But, funnily enough, it doesn't contradict Lucas's statement anyway. The test could easily (and in fact did) test both Anakin's strength and the possibility to turn him to the dark side. So, once more, your argument falls flat. I know you don't like it but it's canon as Galan has been preaching to me for weeks now and I accept it as you should.

Dooku has no Idea that Sidious was going to betray him, he was following orders and playing his part to test Anakin to see if they could lure him to the dark side. Dooku realises too late indicating had he known he would have been trying to kill Anakin.

This isn't rocket science.

I didn't say it wasn't canon. I said it doesn't overwrite Lucas's statement. The test can test both attributes you know. Both statements can be true.

Originally posted by ares834
I didn't say it wasn't canon. I said it doesn't overwrite Lucas's statement. The test can test both attributes you know. Both statements can be true. It don't matter what the attributes are when Dooku was unprepared and realized too late the test involves Sidious betraying him.

No shit. Everyone knows Dooku didn't realize he was going to get killed. We've seen the movie. But that doesn't mean he held back.

Originally posted by ares834
No shit. Everyone knows Dooku didn't realize he was going to get killed. We've seen the movie. But that doesn't mean he held back. He was told by Sidious that if things started to go from the plan he would help him.

Ok. Still doesn't prove he held back.

Originally posted by ares834
Ok. Still doesn't prove he held back. Yes it does. The plan was never for Dooku to kill Anakin, to see if he could be turned to the dark side.

facepalm

Just because Dooku didn't realize his life was on the line doesn't mean he was't giving it his all. How are you unable to grasp something so simple?

Bias, perhaps?

Originally posted by ares834
facepalm

Just because Dooku didn't realize his life was on the line doesn't mean he was't giving it his all. How are you unable to grasp something so simple? I use common sense. The plan was never for Dooku to kill Anakin(Dooku's reason to hold back) it was to see if they could lure him to their cause. It's not hard to figure out.

If you're trying to get someone to join you why would you kill them?

We can piss, moan, screech all day about whether Dooku held back against Anakin (which I don't believe he did due to lack of sufficient evidence), but regardless of whether he did or not, what can't be disputed is Anakin's supremacy over Dooku which is why Palpatine wanted to recruit him in the first place. Palpatine explicitly says that Anakin is more powerful than Dooku in RotS movie, the G canon source, an immovable object in Star Wars history:



This statement from Palpatine is definitely reliable because because he knows how powerful Anakin and Dooku are. Here are more sources that reinforce his statement:











I think I might be missing a few, but we can make do with these quotes.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I thought Galan said in another thread that Lucas comments aren't canon anymore? Only in the instances where his statements contradict new canon.

For example, GL originally intended for Vader's power/potential to have been gimped after the events of RotS, but that is no longer the case in canon.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
We can piss, moan, screech all day about whether Dooku held back against Anakin (which I don't believe he did due to lack of sufficient evidence), but regardless of whether he did or not, what can't be disputed is Anakin's supremacy over Dooku which is why Palpatine wanted to recruit him in the first place. Palpatine explicitly says that Anakin is more powerful than Dooku in RotS movie, the G canon source, an immovable object in Star Wars history:



This statement from Palpatine is definitely reliable because because he knows how powerful Anakin and Dooku are. Here are more sources that reinforce his statement:











I think I might be missing a few, but we can make do with these quotes. Is any of that from canon sources?

Not one canon source says that Dooku held back and was letting Anakin stomp his ass for the lulz. You're making that up.

It was a contest set up to see which of them would make the more powerful apprentice for Sidious. Dooku failed.

Deal.

Originally posted by Sheev
Not one canon source says that Dooku held back and was letting Anakin stomp his ass for the lulz. You're making that up.

It was a contest set up to see which of them would make the more powerful apprentice for Sidious. Dooku failed.

Deal. It's common sense.

Would you kill someone you were trying to get to join you?

LOL.

No it's just your illogical opinion and contradicts the facts.

You're trying to act like dooku was holding back here so that it diminishes Anakin's feat of stomping the crap out of him.

Dooku was NOT holding back, and no canon sources say he was. Period.

Common sense says he was.

Illogical "common sense" isnt canon.

Who cares. ROTS fight isn't a great one to go off anyway for numerous reasons. Dark Disciple basically listing them as equals is better. You can assume Anakin surpassed Dooku by the time of ROTS, and Palpatine saying Anakin is more powerful supports this.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahsoka's fight with Maul in Rebels was literally 20 seconds long, and ended with her allowing a blinded Kanan to finish the job. Hardly enough to draw any conclusions, imo.

But as mentioned, we have a common denominator between Dooku and Ahsoka in the form of Anakin: Ahsoka contended pretty well against Vader(who is > RotS Anakin), whereas Dooku was decisively stomped by RotS Anakin in under a minute.

How much of an advantage could it have possibly given her, though?

After RotS, Vader created a new lightsaber style for himself in order to overcome the bulk of his armor -- so it's not like she would have known what to expect there. On top of that, Vader was also fighting differently in general, and fully embracing emotions that he never would have as a Jedi.

So again, not sure how Ahsoka's Jedi training under Anakin would have realistically helped her much at all against Vader..? He was a completely different animal than Anakin.
THow much of an advantage could it have possibly given her, though?
Actually, per filoni, vader training ahsoka was a disadvantage , hence why he said, anakin would win a 1 v1 because he's trained her. I have zero clue how "ahsoka had an advantage vs vader" was the conclusion from that.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Is any of that from canon sources?

Define canon first.

Ahsley, Ahsoka's voice actress, said that Vader and Ahsoka had mutual knowledge of each other's fighting style, for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Sheev
Illogical "common sense" isnt canon. There is enough evidence in the Visual Guides and Ultimate Guides to back up my claim that Dooku was following a plan to lure Anakin to the Dark Side. Dooku was playing his part in this plan but was unprepared for the treachery of Sidious. There is nothing saying that he wanted them to fight to see who was more powerful like you claim. Dooku was just following orders and was even told that if the plan went astray he would help Dooku. Had Dooku been going all out he would have most certainly used Force Lightning but magically he did not and he used FL quite often in his fights.

If anything you guys are the ones making stuff up without any canon evidence.Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Define canon first. You have to ask the mods.

Stop acting dense.

Do any canon sources say that Dooku was holding back? Yes or no.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
There is nothing saying that he wanted them to fight to see who was more powerful like you claim.

Literally has already been posted.

And I hope you realize the movie is canon right? That's one of the sources YousufKhan used...

Originally posted by Sheev
Stop acting dense.

Do any canon sources say that Dooku was holding back? Yes or no. Common sense does.

Do any canon sources say he was going all out?

Originally posted by ares834
Literally has already been posted.

And I hope you realize the movie is canon right? That's one of the sources YousufKhan used... Don't you find it odd how easily Dooku was ragdolling Kenobi but not Anakin in the movie? Heck now it makes sense Dooku was going to kill Kenobi and taunt Anakin to join the dark side.

So I guess the movie does support my point as well.

Originally posted by Sheev
Stop acting dense.

Do any canon sources say that Dooku was holding back? Yes or no. Originally posted by juggernaut74
Common sense does. So the answer is "no" then.

Cool.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Don't you find it odd how easily Dooku was ragdolling Kenobi but not Anakin in the movie? Heck now it makes sense Dooku was going to kill Kenobi and taunt Anakin to join the dark side.

So I guess the movie does support my point as well.

Nothing odd about it. Anakin is more powerful than Kenobi, or Dooku for that matter. So, once more, your point is moot. Plus Jedi/Sith rarely use their force abilities wisely.

Originally posted by Sheev
So the answer is "no" then.

Cool. I see you dodged my question.

Nicely done.

Originally posted by ares834
Nothing odd about it. Anakin is more powerful than Kenobi, or Dooku for that matter. So, once more, your point is moot. Plus Jedi/Sith rarely use their force abilities wisely. Anakin is more powerful than Dooku I agree. But experience and skill? Not a chance.

And Dooku used his abilities almost every time he fought except when he fought Anakin. But that's because he was holding back.

Every single quote I cited was licensed by Lucasfilm, so yes they are canon.

I don't know if any of that is canon. And even if it is I've already said Anakin is more powerful.

Originally posted by ares834
No shit. Everyone knows Dooku didn't realize he was going to get killed. We've seen the movie. But that doesn't mean he held back.
I dont really know what you mean by "held back", but it does mean at the very least dooku wasn't including attacks that could have potentially wounded anakin mortally. So no, he wasn't fighting at 100% capacity. Is that enough to dimiss him getting stomped? Probably not. Acting like that doesn't mean anything while also hyping up vader in spite of lucas saying vader isn't shit is kinda ridiculous. Either dooku wasn't operating at 100% or Vader isn't> anakin.

The only extent you can go to reasonably salvage Dooku is argue that he was pulling lethal punches i.e. beheading Anakin, but that's it really, and it's not like Anakin left a lapse in his guard anyway, Nick Gillard said that Anakin's fighting style has the least flaws of all the fighters in the Prequels if I recall correctly (though Gillard also said that you'll never get the better of Palpatine's fighting style), so I doubt Anakin actually overextended to that degree at any point But we also have to remember that Dooku's elegant fighting style is about jabs and light cuts, he did with Obi-Wan in AotC, Dooku was not under any obligation to ignore opportunities of non-lethal victories (which his fighting style is optimised for), and I'm willing to bet Palpatine wouldn't have given a shit if Anakin received some superficial scratches. But the fact that Dooku didn't realise that Palpatine wasn't going to save his life from Anakin, isn't mutually exclusive with him doing everything he can to prevent himself from being beaten by Anakin. Anakin wasn't fighting with lethal intent either, he only killed Dooku because Palpatine coerced him.

When it was just Anakin and Dooku fighting one-on-one, when did Dooku even have the opportunity to severely injure him?

Originally posted by Galan007
When it was just Anakin and Dooku fighting one-on-one, when did Dooku even have the opportunity to severely injure him?
Well they didn't just fight 1 on 1 did they? Is the "anakin and kenobi were just playing along" even a thing in canon?


I'm not saying dooku would have beat anakin, but I could see him throwing stabs that would force anakin to take defensive measures at the very least. Not having the license to kill at the very least prevents a range of attack options/angles. If dooku is able to take am at vital organs his attack range gets alot bigger.

And if anakin has to worry about dooku attacking everything, he doesn't have as much freedom to attack which could significantly elongate their battle.

What? Palp coerced him to kill when dooky was already beaten. There is nothing from the jedi code or anakin's own morality which would make him not try to kill dooku in the middle of a fight. Kenobi had zero issues with anakin killing dooku as he assumed it happened in the heat of battle. Anakin is almost certainly trying to kill dooku. Dooku is not trying to kill anakin.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well they didn't just fight 1 on 1 did they? Is the "anakin and kenobi were just playing along" even a thing in canon? It was mentioned in The Complete Visual Dictionary (2018) that Kenobi and Anakin switched up their styles against Dooku to confuse him:
https://i.imgur.com/11aGw9s.jpg

Either way, I've said from the start that Dooku might have been holding back against them initially. But once Kenobi was removed from play, and it was just Dooku and Anakin one-on-one, what legitimate reason do we have to believe that Dooku was pulling his punches? As mentioned above, Anakin didn't really give him a chance to do... Anything at all from an offensive standpoint. He was on Dooku like a fly on shit.

A lot of that stuff from the Visual Guides seems to come straight from the novelization of the movie.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? Palp coerced him to kill when dooky was already beaten.

Exactly, Anakin beat Dooku via non lethal means, before being coerced by Palpatine to kill Dooku once the fight was over.



There evidently was, because Anakin only killed Dooku when Palpatine commanded him twice, which was after the fight was over, and even then, Anakin hesitates, showing conflict:



https://youtu.be/EQldOeZ75gY?t=155



Kenobi's morals don't really salvage Dooku, and he didn't witness Anakin's victory over Dooku. Anakin wasn't trying to kill Dooku in the fight itself, which is conveyed via his hesitation after the fight is over. Dooku at best was avoiding lethal means of beating Anakin e.g. beheading him, but it's not like it was feasible for Dooku to gained ground against Anakin given how hard he was being hammered, as the RotS novel describes Anakin's duel with Count Dooku as a "a comedy of lightsaber flashes," a "mere pantomime," a "play" in which "Dooku is already dead," a play where Dooku's "decades of combat experience," "mastery of swordplay," and "knowledge of the Force" are all rendered "useless, irrelevant" and even a "joke," while you could argue that is hyperbolic, given that Dooku only actually dies after the fight is over, but the intended subtext of that passage from the Lucas approved novel is that Anakin is humiliating Dooku in the final portions of the duel, which makes sense because Anakin, when drawing on the Dark Side as of RotS, is a 9 (albeit only physically, not mentally like Yoda, Sidious and maybe Windu who are proper 9s), whereas Dooku is an 8, and Gillard said that 9s are "enormously" above 8s: https://youtu.be/GUri1mzZAZM

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I dont really know what you mean by "held back", but it does mean at the very least dooku wasn't including attacks that could have potentially wounded anakin mortally. So no, he wasn't fighting at 100% capacity. Is that enough to dimiss him getting stomped? Probably not. Acting like that doesn't mean anything while also hyping up vader in spite of lucas saying vader isn't shit is kinda ridiculous. Either dooku wasn't operating at 100% or Vader isn't> anakin. That's kind of my point.

Curious aside, are there canon sources that put Anakin above Kenobi in ROTS? I know there are plenty in legends but what about canon?

I can't think of a canon quote off hand flatly stating that Anakin > Kenobi.

But I'm sure most would still agree that RotS Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi(especially given Palpatine's statement in the film that Anakin was "far younger and more powerful" than Dooku.)

And even back in DD, the implication is that Anakin was stalemating Dooku, which is obviously something I don't see RotS Kenobi doing solo.

Originally posted by Galan007
I can't think of a canon quote off hand flatly stating that Anakin > Kenobi.

But I'm sure most would still agree that RotS Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi(especially given Palpatine's statement in the film that Anakin was "far younger and more powerful" than Dooku.)

And even back in DD, the implication is that Anakin was stalemating Dooku, which is obviously something I don't see RotS Kenobi doing solo.

True, but I just don't know if the gap between Legends!ROTS Skywalker and Legends!Dooku is the same as the gap between Canon!Skywalker and Canon!Dooku. So what's the canon take on Skywalker losing on Mustafar?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Acting like that doesn't mean anything while also hyping up vader in spite of lucas saying vader isn't shit is kinda ridiculous.

Not sure how the two are related, but OK.

I also do still consider Lucas's comments on Vader's potential canon BTW.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So what's the canon take on Skywalker losing on Mustafar? Not exactly sure what you're asking?

IIRC, 2018 edition of Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force said that their mutual knowledge of each other's fighting styles left them evenly matched, and that Anakin's overconfidence caused his downfall.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
IIRC, 2018 edition of Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force said that their mutual knowledge of each other's fighting styles left them evenly matched, and that Anakin's overconfidence caused his downfall. Yep.

"Years of fighting side-by-side left these warriors evenly matched It was Anakin's overconfidence, fueled by the dark side, which led to his defeat."

Galan, your knowledge of canon is unparalleled, may you be blessed in your ventures.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not exactly sure what you're asking?

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
IIRC, 2018 edition of Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force said that their mutual knowledge of each other's fighting styles left them evenly matched, and that Anakin's overconfidence caused his downfall.

Yup, this answered it. It seems to be the canon default to 50% of fights. Overconfidence. But that quote also doesn't seem to paint the same disparity between Kenobi and Skywalker as Legends does.

One of those guides said that Kenobi beat Maul on Tatooine because he caught him off guard.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
One of those guides said that Kenobi beat Maul on Tatooine because he caught him off guard.

Yeah i remember reading that somewhere, also Filoni in some link stated Maul wasnt mentally or psychologically well and was tired from a lot of travelling where as Obi wan was all relaxed and refreshed with the force..

If Maul is off-guard after that protracted staring contest, then that's pretty bad. I can only assume that Maul is never, ever on guard.

Originally posted by ozz81
Yeah i remember reading that somewhere, also Filoni in some link stated Maul wasnt mentally or psychologically well and was tired from a lot of travelling where as Obi wan was all relaxed and refreshed with the force..
Filoni also straight up said maul can't beat kenobi so...

Originally posted by Galan007
It was mentioned in The Complete Visual Dictionary (2018) that Kenobi and Anakin switched up their styles against Dooku to confuse him:
https://i.imgur.com/11aGw9s.jpg

Either way, I've said from the start that Dooku might have been holding back against them initially. But once Kenobi was removed from play, and it was just Dooku and Anakin one-on-one, what legitimate reason do we have to believe that Dooku was pulling his punches? .
Nothing, but by that point dooku had already spent some time fighting, and that time fighing had dooku limiting his range of attacks, so I think it's a bit dubious to assume anakin would just be able to beat a fresh dooku in 10 secs.

Just taking everything after kenobi gets choked out overstates the degree anakin can dominate dooku.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Exactly, Anakin beat Dooku via non lethal means, before being coerced by Palpatine to kill Dooku once the fight was over.

Is there a reason you're saying the exact same thing you said last time?


Palpatine coerced Anakin, when dooku was already at his mercy. Anakin finding an oppurtunity to disarm him does not inidcate that if dooku had failed to put his blade up in time for any of the dozen strikes aimed for dooku's head, Anakin would have hesitated from taking the oppurtunity to keep him alive.

The jedi way was to kill, if neccesary. Your assertion Anakin is holding back against dooku is baseless.

Find proper evidence, or drop it.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Filoni also straight up said maul can't beat kenobi so...

Oh yes true i think i remember him saying that: but light saber wise only, he also said briefly either could have beaten either.. also heard not sure how true it is he mentioned somewhere Mauls force powers were stronger ie had more force powers and abilities and was a better hand to hand combatant ..

Originally posted by ozz81
Oh yes true i think i remember him saying that: but light saber wise only, he also said briefly either could have beaten either.. also heard not sure how true it is he mentioned somewhere Mauls force powers were stronger ie had more force powers and abilities and was a better hand to hand combatant ..
I'm aware of nothing that positively compares maul to kenobi as of rebels. All I recall is filoni saying maul couldn't beat kenobi and that was some symbol for how Kenobi's way, the light side, was better in the long run.


Filoni did imply that maul(and kenobi) had grown as fighters from tcw, but kmc mostly disregarded that when a matt martin quote said maul was out of practice.


There was a source that said Maul had learned new force abilities, but it was dimissed for some reason, potentially because the source wasn't seen as valid. :/

Either way, Maul having his hands full with ROTS Ahsoka has seemingly reopened rebels maul vs sod maul since by all logic, Rebels Ahsoka should be out of ros maul's league. Especially when you consider her performance vs palpatine.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'm aware of nothing that positively compares maul to kenobi as of rebels. All I recall is filoni saying maul couldn't beat kenobi and that was some symbol for how Kenobi's way, the light side, was better in the long run.


Filoni did imply that maul(and kenobi) had grown as fighters from tcw, but kmc mostly disregarded that when a matt martin quote said maul was out of practice.


There was a source that said Maul had learned new force abilities, but it was dimissed for some reason, potentially because the source wasn't seen as valid. :/

Either way, Maul having his hands full with ROTS Ahsoka has seemingly reopened rebels maul vs sod maul since by all logic, Rebels Ahsoka should be out of ros maul's league. Especially when you consider her performance vs palpatine.

cool... sorry wasnt to sure the ahsoka vs Palpatine performance did you mean the one where she was in some portal with Ezra in rebels ?

Style makes match up. Although Ahsoka did "better" against Vader than Dooku against Anakin, it doesn't mean Ahsoka wins. Vader style is also different than that of Anakin. He also fights to wear his opponents down (even though his opponent is weaker than him) while Anakin just wanted to brutalize Dooku. That Anakin would brutalize Ahsoka and although Vader is more powerful than RoTS Anakin, his fight would last longer than Anakin vs Dooku, just because of different style.

I think Dooku beats Ahsoka.

Originally posted by Inedian
Style makes match up. Although Ahsoka did "better" against Vader than Dooku against Anakin, it doesn't mean Ahsoka wins. Vader style is also different than that of Anakin. He also fights to wear his opponents down (even though his opponent is weaker than him) while Anakin just wanted to brutalize Dooku. That Anakin would brutalize Ahsoka and although Vader is more powerful than RoTS Anakin, his fight would last longer than Anakin vs Dooku, just because of different style.

I think Dooku beats Ahsoka.
Well, I'll give Dooku this, even in canon his makashi is a perfect counter for ataru.

All that said, style makes fights can only go so far. If Vader actually scales above Anakin, then dooku being able to win here becomes highly dubious.

Off course, I'd like to look at the quotes again. Vader scaling over anakin is a drastic change from the old continuity.

Originally posted by ozz81
cool... sorry wasnt to sure the ahsoka vs Palpatine performance did you mean the one where she was in some portal with Ezra in rebels ?
Yeah.

I've seen people argue that there was an amp of some kind, but there's no evidence for that I'm aware of.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Is there a reason you're saying the exact same thing you said last time?


Palpatine coerced Anakin, when dooku was already at his mercy. Anakin finding an oppurtunity to disarm him does not inidcate that if dooku had failed to put his blade up in time for any of the dozen strikes aimed for dooku's head, Anakin would have hesitated from taking the oppurtunity to keep him alive.

The jedi way was to kill, if neccesary. Your assertion Anakin is holding back against dooku is baseless.

Find proper evidence, or drop it.

Is there a reason why you ignored the rest of my response?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Nothing, but by that point dooku had already spent some time fighting, and that time fighing had dooku limiting his range of attacks, so I think it's a bit dubious to assume anakin would just be able to beat a fresh dooku in 10 secs.

Just taking everything after kenobi gets choked out overstates the degree anakin can dominate dooku. Do we have any reason at all to assume Dooku was depleted when Anakin fought him one-on-one?

Originally posted by Galan007
Do we have any reason at all to assume Dooku was depleted when Anakin fought him one-on-one?
Well, if he was fighting a significantly more powerful opponent in addition to Kenobi, I'd imagine that would take something out of his force reserves. Characters getting tired in canon seems to be a thing if we use Ahsoka for reference.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well, if he was fighting a significantly more powerful opponent in addition to Kenobi, I'd imagine that would take something out of his force reserves. Characters getting tired in canon seems to be a thing if we use Ahsoka for reference. In the novelization of the film it's noted that Dooku says he's tired before the fight even begins and then several times once the fight starts but I'm not sure it's canon anymore even though the info from the Visual Guides seem to pull their stuff straight from the novel.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well, if he was fighting a significantly more powerful opponent in addition to Kenobi, I'd imagine that would take something out of his force reserves. Characters getting tired in canon seems to be a thing if we use Ahsoka for reference. But again: is there any actual proof that he was depleted?

Certainly didn't seem to me like he was taxed at all when Anakin owned him.

Is the novelization canon?

Originally posted by Galan007
But again: is there any actual proof that he was depleted?

Certainly didn't seem to me like he was taxed at all when Anakin owned him.

Proof from the script the actors used for the duel "As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry." But I don't think there's anything in canon sourcebooks that say that.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Proof from the script the actors used for the duel "As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry." But I don't think there's anything in canon sourcebooks that say that.
@galan, are movie scripts canon?

The only pre-2014 "immovable canon" is the films themselves and TCW.

I'm not really confident that the unseen/unstated moments of the original scripts would necessarily default to canon.

From the research I'm doing it seems the novelizations are canon as long as they line up with the films. For example I guess Yoda was blue in the book but in the film he was green.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'm aware of nothing that positively compares maul to kenobi as of rebels. All I recall is filoni saying maul couldn't beat kenobi and that was some symbol for how Kenobi's way, the light side, was better in the long run.


Filoni did imply that maul(and kenobi) had grown as fighters from tcw, but kmc mostly disregarded that when a matt martin quote said maul was out of practice.


There was a source that said Maul had learned new force abilities, but it was dimissed for some reason, potentially because the source wasn't seen as valid. :/

Either way, Maul having his hands full with ROTS Ahsoka has seemingly reopened rebels maul vs sod maul since by all logic, Rebels Ahsoka should be out of ros maul's league. Especially when you consider her performance vs palpatine.


Never heard the Matt Martin quote of Maul's skills diminishing. Does Matt's word carry more weight than Filoni??

Originally posted by Forschbewithu
Never heard the Matt Martin quote of Maul's skills diminishing. Does Matt's word carry more weight than Filoni??
No idea.

I mean, "out of practice" doesn't necessarily equate to him being weaker.

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, "out of practice" doesn't necessarily equate to him being weaker.
Well filoni's statement was very specifically in the context of lightsaber fights. If Maul is out of practice than him growing as a duelist is kinda nonsensical.

Perhaps his saber skills didn't grow(though I'm sure his Force power did), but that doesn't mean his skill diminished either.

Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps his saber skills didn't grow(though I'm sure his Force power did), but that doesn't mean his skill diminished either.
I suppose power can compensate for rustiness

Originally posted by Galan007

I'm not really confident that the unseen/unstated moments of the original scripts would necessarily default to canon.

Its a part of the movie, it's the stones used to make those 'immovable' pillars of the canon. The actors portrayed those characters at the moment based on what was in those scripts so it seems likely they are canon unless directly contradicted by another visual medium.

When did Christopher Lee portray Dooku being "tired", though?

He didnt portray that at all. Nor did the movie imply it.

and I would imagine that if Dooku was meant to be tired and weakened when Anakin fought him, it would have been mentioned SOMEWHERE in canon over the last 6 years.

why are people reaching so hard here? Is it really that hard to believe that Anakin was simply beyond dooku in ROTS? Thought this discussion had been put to rest back in 2005?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Its a part of the movie, it's the stones used to make those 'immovable' pillars of the canon. The actors portrayed those characters at the moment based on what was in those scripts so it seems likely they are canon unless directly contradicted by another visual medium. I agree.Originally posted by Galan007
When did Christopher Lee portray Dooku being "tired", though? Dooku was definately tired when he fought Yoda On Geonosis. The novel makes it clear that Dooku was tired when he fought Anakin on the Invisible Hand.

facepalm

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's performance against Kenobi is far better than Ahsoka's against Maul's and in canon Kenobi>Maul.


I dont think its confirmed anywhere in canon that ROTS Kenobi > Maul. In fact after TCW finale Id argue Maul is almost certainly stronger with the Force at least.

Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps his saber skills didn't grow(though I'm sure his Force power did), but that doesn't mean his skill diminished either.



Its possible. He did extract information ridiculously more easily from Hera compared to Jesse.

But that could be down to needing much more thorough and detailed info from Jesse.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont think its confirmed anywhere in canon that ROTS Kenobi > Maul.
Well there's the matter of consistently getting outfought tcw kenobi....

There's also the matter of Ahsoka implying he's well below season 5 anakin.

Originally posted by Galan007
When did Christopher Lee portray Dooku being "tired", though?

I think that's my point. If you showed me the Ahsoka vs. Maul duel I would not have inherently pointed to the moment after Maul gets kicked out of a window as displaying Ahsoka as tired but that's what its meant to be.

Scripts are canon because they give us a window of what the creators of the films were trying to convey. In any sort of visual medium, the screenwriter's/creator's intent is always most important in portrayals.

Originally posted by Sheev
He didnt portray that at all. Nor did the movie imply it.

and I would imagine that if Dooku was meant to be tired and weakened when Anakin fought him, it would have been mentioned SOMEWHERE in canon over the last 6 years.

why are people reaching so hard here? Is it really that hard to believe that Anakin was simply beyond dooku in ROTS? Thought this discussion had been put to rest back in 2005?

Dooku being tired and being inferior to Anakin are not really mutually exclusive though. I think it's logical given many times we see Dooku duel (against Yoda, and against Kenobi & Skywalker in their last fight in TCWs) he gets tired. No reason why ROTS would be different when Kenobi and Skywalker are at their peak.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dont think its confirmed anywhere in canon that ROTS Kenobi > Maul. In fact after TCW finale Id argue Maul is almost certainly stronger with the Force at least.

Obi-Wan's feats against Anakin on Mustafar solidly place him above Maul imo. yes Anakin was overconfident but it doesn't seem like in canon Anakin was operating at a full tier below his max power like he was in Legends.

Originally posted by Lord Stark

Obi-Wan's feats against Anakin on Mustafar solidly place him above Maul imo. yes Anakin was overconfident but it doesn't seem like in canon Anakin was operating at a full tier below his max power like he was in Legends.


Are you talking about the force push?

Well we havent seen SOM Maul and Mustafa Anakin Force push each other, so theres still no definitive canon scaling there.

But Given Force powers are definitely influenced by focus and clarity, I think its a safe assumption Anakins force push was hindered.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I think that's my point. If you showed me the Ahsoka vs. Maul duel I would not have inherently pointed to the moment after Maul gets kicked out of a window as displaying Ahsoka as tired but that's what its meant to be.

Scripts are canon because they give us a window of what the creators of the films were trying to convey. In any sort of visual medium, the screenwriter's/creator's intent is always most important in portrayals. My point is: the film itself never indicated that Dooku was "tired" by the time he faced Anakin, which would be an extremely important fact to convey if that was really the intent. Moreover, if such an important plot-point existed, then I would think that *some* piece of post-2014 canon would mention it... But to my knowledge, it is not so much as alluded to anywhere.

Scripts are ultimately just a rough guideline for the actors/director. They are not always strictly adhered to once the actual filming begins... And in this case, Dooku being tired is evidently not something that GL wanted Christopher Lee to convey at all... Because he didn't. That's why I, personally, don't believe that scripts are irrefutable -- the finished product is ultimately what matters. /shrug

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Are you talking about the force push?

Well we havent seen SOM Maul and Mustafa Anakin Force push each other, so theres still no definitive canon scaling there.

But Given Force powers are definitely influenced by focus and clarity, I think its a safe assumption Anakins force push was hindered.

There's nothing canon stating Anakin's focus and clarity was hindered in ROTS just that he was overconfident.

Well nothing more than common sense and a basic understanding of visual medium.

Originally posted by Galan007
My point is: the film itself never indicated that Dooku was "tired" by the time he faced Anakin, which would be an extremely important fact to convey if that was really the intent. Moreover, if such an important plot-point existed, then I would think that *some* piece of post-2014 canon would at least allude to it... But to my knowledge, nothing does.

Scripts are ultimately just a rough guideline for the actors/director. They are not always strictly adhered to once the actual filming begins... And in this case, Dooku being tired is evidently not something that GL wanted Christopher Lee to convey at all... Because he didn't.

Disagreed.

1. I think he does seem tired in those final moments by the time he gets to the Chancellor's chair
2. Dooku's head was digitally altered in several moments so its quite possible that the portrayal didn't quite come across as well

And I don't really think that's an "extremely" important fact to convey. The story group isn't sitting here thinking 'well this will be critical if a debate on Anakin vs. Dooku happens on the KMC Star Wars Versus Forum'. Like I said Dooku being weaker than Anakin isn't mutually exclusive with the fact that he was tired by the end of the battle.

We see Dooku sigh with exhaustion after defeating Anakin in AOTCs, logically why tf would he not be tired after facing a far more powerful version of Anakin. This is hit home by Dooku panting heavily facing the two of them on Oba Diah.

It's totally disjointed portrayal if Dooku is 100% fine by the end of a near two-minute duel with Skywalker and Kenobi in ROTS.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Dooku was definately tired when he fought Yoda On Geonosis. The novel makes it clear that Dooku was tired when he fought Anakin on the Invisible Hand.

The novel also has Dooku draw upon the force to rejuvenate himself before battling Anakin so...

This is actually kind of hysterical.

First the argument was that Dooku was holding back against Anakin. Now it has shifted to Dooku being tired when he fought anakin...... Neither of which can be supported by anything in the film or supplementary material.

The mental gymnastics on display here. facepalm

Originally posted by ares834
The novel also has Dooku draw upon the force to rejuvenate himself before battling Anakin so...

Lmao the hypocrisy here is killing me. How are you gonna pull from the novel and say that overrides the screenplay? Scripts>Novelizations in canon.

Originally posted by Sheev
This is actually kind of hysterical.

First the argument was that Dooku was holding back against Anakin. Now it has shifted to Dooku being tired when he fought anakin...... Neither of which can be supported by anything in the film or supplementary material.

The mental gymnastics on display here. facepalm

Go back and read my posts. I have never argued that Dooku was holding back. Why would he be tired if he wasn't going all out?