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This is Cap before the reboot. Who is physically stronger?

About even with maybe an edge to Billy.

Originally posted by carver9
This is Cap before the reboot. Who is physically stronger?
Theyre all about even.
Manthor has better strength feats than Shethor however.

Originally posted by lawest9
About even with maybe an edge to Billy.

Why does Billy have an edge?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Theyre all about even.
Manthor has better strength feats than Shethor however.

You think so?

Billy

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think so?
Ya

Originally posted by MrMind
Billy

Why?

Originally posted by carver9
Why?

He was evenly matched with Superman.

That's not good enough?

Then again, Jane ripped through that super-tough alloy with her bare hands...

Billy

Batson

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was evenly matched with Superman.

That's not good enough?

Then again, Jane ripped through that super-tough alloy with her bare hands...

I feel confident Jane would match him as well.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Billy

Name the fts.

Originally posted by carver9
This is Cap before the reboot. Who is physically stronger?


Captain Marvel of course. And it's not even close.

Originally posted by carver9
Name the fts.

Stalemating Superman in arm wrestling, who has infinite strength.

Stop trolling cdtm.

Originally posted by carver9
Stop trolling cdtm.


You asked for a feat.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was evenly matched with Superman.

That's not good enough?

Then again, Jane ripped through that super-tough alloy with her bare hands...


Has Jane lifted an infinite amount of weight?


Because Superman has, with the book with infinite pages.


Which he had a version of Captain Marvel help with, btw.


And mainstream Cap stalemated Superman in arm wrestling, meaning they both have infinite strength. Because a book with infinite pages is logically of an infinite weight (Exposition is for Carvers benefit, I know you fully understand the feats without needing them explained).

Originally posted by cdtm
Has Jane lifted an infinite amount of weight?


Because Superman has, with the book with infinite pages.


Which he had a version of Captain Marvel help with, btw.


And mainstream Cap stalemated Superman in arm wrestling, meaning they both have infinite strength. Because a book with infinite pages is logically of an infinite weight (Exposition is for Carvers benefit, I know you fully understand the feats without needing them explained).

You're trolling cdtm

Trolling with facts is my thing.

Okay so.just opinion

Good post Spet.........👍🏾

Originally posted by carver9
Stop trolling cdtm. So his opinion that Capt. Marvel is stronger than Jane makes him a troll????

Spet posts are always amazing. Im looking for fts in this thread though.

nobody cares about your opinion carver

Originally posted by MrMind
nobody cares about your opinion carver

You do though.

jane

What's Jane's best pure strength feat? Either punching or lifting.

She assisted in punching through an Adamantium/Vibranium door that was covered in magic shielding. Before this, she was crushing it with her bare hands.

https://m.imgur.com/a/zxEaG

She also lifted a huge underwater base...

https://m.imgur.com/6gutqGK

Picked up an island made of pure gold and throws it into the sun

https://m.imgur.com/a/Etf8C

The adamantium one is pretty sick.

Both insane feats I'll admit, but I did see in a JSA comic where Cap and Black Adam both lifted up twin cities ( one a piece, Lol ) and went airborne with them, I remember BA expressing surprise that Cap had the same strength level that he had, Cap had went back in time if I'm not mistaken, can't find the scan but it did happen.

Jane

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Okay so.just opinion

Well cdtm gave feats, and he was accused of trolling.

But yes. Superman helped Cap lift infinity.

Cdtm is okay. Also.he likes fibbing people. Spet basically said
"" this is what I think, so its true, and thus you guys should take it as gospel""

Originally posted by -Pr-
What's Jane's best pure strength feat? Either punching or lifting.

Tearing through an adamantium-vibranium alloy with her fingers.

Nonsensical feat, but since the book feat got mentioned...

Question: We know the durability of metal depends on its thickness. The walls were plated with adamantium. Plating is usually thin (less than 1/4 inch).
What's the greatest durability feat by adamantium and how thick was it at the time of that particular feat?
We need to start quantifying adamantium. Vibranium is definitely weaker.

Wolverine's claws are like a molecule thick.

And they NEVER blunt or lose their edge.

Vibranium is weaker yes, but it's properties (of absorbing energy) mean that you have to take that into account.

His claws are "true adamantium" though.


The unbreakable stuff.


If it breaks, it's usually a safe bet it's "lesser adamantium", e.g. secondary.

No way to downplay this showing H1. Invulnerability is invulnerability, no matter the size.

Originally posted by carver9
No way to downplay this showing H1. Invulnerability is invulnerability, no matter the size.

I agree.


Again, is it "true adamantium"?


Because if it is, this would be a first. You understand Marvel has NEVER had Wolverine's kind of adamantium break. Ever.


Any time of it happening was quickly retconned as "secondary".

Hush cdtm

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tearing through an adamantium-vibranium alloy with her fingers.

Nonsensical feat, but since the book feat got mentioned...

It is a pretty cool feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
Question: We know the durability of metal depends on its thickness. The walls were plated with adamantium. Plating is usually thin (less than 1/4 inch).
What's the greatest durability feat by adamantium and how thick was it at the time of that particular feat?
We need to start quantifying adamantium. Vibranium is definitely weaker.

None of what you said applies to adamantium, though.

Originally posted by carver9
No way to downplay this showing H1. Invulnerability is invulnerability, no matter the size.

I'm going to save this quote for a later date.

Originally posted by -Pr-



I'm going to save this quote for a later date.

well It's right there on panel that it's a plating not the real thing and vibranium can be overloaded and destroyed with enough force too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It is a pretty cool feat.



None of what you said applies to adamantium, though.



I'm going to save this quote for a later date.

There's no reason to save it though. Jane just did the impossible, thats all.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
well It's right there on panel that it's a plating not the real thing and vibranium can be overloaded and destroyed with enough force too.

I dont think plating have anything to do with it being real or not. Its just a description of the size.

Honestly that is impressive but it's been done before as well

Not exactly but in terms of mixing the 2 together:

https://i.postimg.cc/cKsXMxb0/ms.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/nMQYm9hq/vua.jpg

Ms Marvel (2006) #44

cdtm does make a point when they say true there is no breaking unless they retcon what grade the metal was later on.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Wolverine's claws are like a molecule thick.

Considering how many times they've been stated and shown to be honed keen enough to slice through damn near anything with little to no effort, yeah, they'd have to be.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

And they NEVER blunt or lose their edge.

Correct, as confirmed by Hudson himself:

https://i.ibb.co/zZssPxt/neverdull.jpg

And Hudson and Department H sure did their research on them:

https://tinyurl.com/y86qv2ov

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Vibranium is weaker yes, but it's properties (of absorbing energy) mean that you have to take that into account.

Cap's shield is often written (both on panel in actual comics and in handbooks' detailed descriptions) as an adamantium-vibranium mix.

It's a mistake, technically, as Cap's shield predated adamantium:

https://tinyurl.com/yctxr7nu

Still, Marvel is not exactly known for their consistency when it comes to that subject.

What I'm trying to say is... it's entirely possible that Aaron wanted those thick doors to be as tough as Cap's shield...

Either that... or it's yet another relatively low quality alloy (Alberto just posted a nice example). It's up for readers to decide, I guess.

Originally posted by carver9
There's no reason to save it though. Jane just did the impossible, thats all.

Don't you worry, I'll find a use for it.

Originally posted by cdtm
His claws are "true adamantium" though.


The unbreakable stuff.


If it breaks, it's usually a safe bet it's "lesser adamantium", e.g. secondary.

Adamantium Beta, actually.

As Wolverine's healing factor induced a change in True Adamantium.

But if anything, that only makes Wolverine's adamantium more indestructible than the real deal, going by feats.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Adamantium Beta, actually.

As Wolverine's healing factor induced a change in True Adamantium.

But if anything, that only makes Wolverine's adamantium more indestructible than the real deal, going by feats.

This.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't you worry, I'll find a use for it.

Lol

People get adamantium wrong all the time.
"True" is just an accident that occurred while trying to replicate Cap's shield (which isnt adamantium at all but a vibranium/steel alloy with a mystery ingredient...this alloy is sometimes called Proto).
Logan has "Beta" which is just "true" that's combined with his physiology.
Secondary is the one they made up to explain the instances in which the supposedly unbreakable had been broken.

Stilt can correct me on this if I'm wrong but Wolverine doesn't have the same adamantium in him that he started off with. The adamantium that is in his body is the adamantium that was on Cyber arms. The same adamantium that Apocalypse injected into Sabertooth.

Originally posted by carver9
Stilt can correct me on this if I'm wrong but Wolverine doesn't have the same adamantium in him that he started off with. The adamantium that is in his body is the adamantium that was on Cyber arms. The same adamantium that Apocalypse injected into Sabertooth.

Cyber had most of his skin covered with adamantium, not just his arms. His only vulnerable areas (that we know of) were his jaw and eyes. Even his f*cking testicles appeared to be protected by adamantium... I'm serious.

Anyway, Genesis tried to bond Wolverine's skeleton with Cyber's adamantium and failed, as Wolverine's healing factor forcefully expelled the adamantium, resulting in a massive shrapnel damage to the Dark Riders.

I don't remember what was Apocalypse's/Creed's source of adamantium. Don't think it was shown on panel.

But when Nur made Wolverine his horseman, he deprived Sabretooth of adamantium and gave it to Wolverine.



----
So first we had Weapon X, then we had Apocalypse... and now it's Forge who does that job, under Xavier's orders:

https://tinyurl.com/y7gsqtsq

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-x-force-wolverine-adamantium-skeleton/

I agree, Cyber entire body was covered in adamantium but it seems like the writer who killed him off retcon that. The beetles after eating his flesh left the adamantium behind and it was just the arms sitting there.

I thought Apocalypse reused the adamantium from cyber arms and gave it to Wolverine. Also, when Wolverine repelled the adamantium, that is by far one of the best scenes in comics.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tearing through an adamantium-vibranium alloy with her fingers.

Nonsensical feat, but since the book feat got mentioned...
Thing broke through adamantium-vibranium alloy, so did Carol before her wank.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, Cyber entire body was covered in adamantium but it seems like the writer who killed him off retcon that. The beetles after eating his flesh left the adamantium behind and it was just the arms sitting there.

Nah, it didn't get retconned.

In that very same arc, under the same writer (Hama), it was shown how Cyber's torso and other parts were fully protected. Dark Riders commented on it, as they tested Cyber and his adamantium before deciding to kill him.

As for his remains... artists had major trouble depicting them and chose NOT to show them at all most of the time.

You're referring to the panel where Genesis grabs some adamantium parts with mechanical arms --- but we don't see Cyber's corpse or even the bloody spot where he was, because it's simply not shown to us.

So it's only logical to assume Genesis kept collecting the parts, having fun as if he was playing an Arcade Claw Machine.

Cyber's skin had many layers of adamantium grafted to it, so it would take time to collect them all, even after the death beetles consumed all of his flesh and insides.

--
Larry Hama is one of the most experienced Wolverine writers and he was familiar with Cyber; he wouldn't make a mistake like that.

Comics back then had more censorship than they do know and, like I said, Cyber's place of death wasn't shown on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
I thought Apocalypse reused the adamantium from cyber arms and gave it to Wolverine. Also, when Wolverine repelled the adamantium, that is by far one of the best scenes in comics.

Apocalypse re-used Sabretooth's adamantium, after Logan beat Creed in a fight and proved to be more worthy of being his horseman.

We don't know for certain who gave it to Sabretooth and what the source of said adamantium was. It's not clear.

It was either Apocalypse or the relaunched Weapon X program, which returned adamantium to Victor in 2001.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thing broke through adamantium-vibranium alloy, so did Carol before her wank.

Thing did? You remember the issue?

Yeah, Alberto already posted the Carol scans.

--
Adamantium alloys have a long history of being inferior to the pure adamantium, I'll give ya that.

In theory, adamantium-vibranium mix should be awesome. On par with Steve's shield, even.

But in practice... I think it's safe to say those two metals simply don't mix well... or perhaps they do, but it takes some brilliant metallurgist to make them.


It's still Jane's greatest pure strength feat, afaik.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thing did? You remember the issue?

Yeah, Alberto already posted the Carol scans.

--
Adamantium alloys have a long history of being inferior to the pure adamantium, I'll give ya that.

In theory, adamantium-vibranium mix should be awesome. On par with Steve's shield, even.

But in practice... I think it's safe to say those two metals simply don't mix well... or perhaps they do, but it takes some brilliant metallurgist to make them.


It's still Jane's greatest pure strength feat, afaik.

it takes whatever that unknown element was that was accidentally introduced. It'd be cool if they did an arc about the history of all these materials. Something like Iron Man's Armor Wars....

Future Ultron was able to replicate the process.

But he only had a short arc and he's not canon to 616, obviously.

Originally posted by -Pr-




None of what you said applies to adamantium, though.


So 0.001 inch of adamantium is equal to 3 miles thick of it?


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wolverine's claws are like a molecule thick.

And they NEVER blunt or lose their edge.

Vibranium is weaker yes, but it's properties (of absorbing energy) mean that you have to take that into account.

Possibly Correct (I have to investigate the molecule bit though). Assuming that's true then you can't say that 3 miles of adamantium isn't more durable than say 0.001 inch of it. Am I right?

Originally posted by carver9
No way to downplay this showing H1. Invulnerability is invulnerability, no matter the size.

I didn't downplay anything. I ask for the greatest feat of its durability.
I see nothing but a bunch of circular reasoning in this thread (assuming a specific durability without proof).

Originally posted by h1a8
So 0.001 inch of adamantium is equal to 3 miles thick of it?




Possibly Correct (I have to investigate the molecule bit though). Assuming that's true then you can't say that 3 miles of adamantium isn't more durable than say 0.001 inch of it. Am I right?

Because it is a metal that is pretty much magical. Your science has no power here!

But yeah. This is something you can't really apply logic to.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because it is a metal that is pretty much magical. Your science has no power here!

But yeah. This is something you can't really apply logic to.

Good way to avoid the question. You proved that you don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because it is a metal that is pretty much magical. Your science has no power here!

But yeah. This is something you can't really apply logic to.

Precisely why adamantium is often called the "miracle metal".

Just like it would be a miracle if h1a8 started reading comics.

Originally posted by h1a8
Good way to avoid the question. You proved that you don't know what you are talking about.

Erm....wow ok, way to be hostile!

But yeah, you try applying real world science to adamantium.

It even has some legit magical properties, ffs.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm....wow ok, way to be hostile!

But yeah, you try applying real world science to adamantium.

So it's applying real world logic by asking what's the best durability feat adamantium has? Don't we use feats to determine how powerful something is? We don't use no limit fallacies here.

Refusing to answer relevant questions to the thread is a form of trolling.

Also, 2 plates of adamantium takes more power to destroy than 1 plate. Therefore, 2 plates are more durable than 1 and thickness matters.

Originally posted by h1a8
So it's applying real world logic by asking what's the best durability feat adamantium has? Don't we use feats to determine how powerful something is? We don't use no limit fallacies here.

Refusing to answer relevant questions to the thread is a form of trolling.

Also, 2 plates of adamantium takes more power to destroy than 1 plate. Therefore, 2 plates are more durable than 1 and thickness matters.

Oh wow, now you're saying I'm trolling? Dem's fighting words. Report me and we can see what mods think.

Lol. If I were trolling, you'd def know it. All I was saying was that adamantium defies real world logic, and yes, it hasn't seen a physical limit. Imagine how thin the coating on Wolverine's bones are.....and he's never had them broken, for example, despite being smashed repeatedly by WWH trying his best to KO him.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that asking for durability feats is apply RL logic . I said that attempting to apply RL logic is attempting to apply RL logic....

Adamantium is a material that no matter how thin it is, it's durability is at max. Infinite, if you will. Like asking what is heavier, an infinite book or an infinite toilet roll.

But yeah, if you want to say that I'm trolling, stop pussyfooting around and do something about it and report me. If you're right and others see it the same, then sure, I'll publicly apologize. If not....well, I expect an apology lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The adamantium one is pretty sick.
And she did it while partially transformed back to human aka not at 100%

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Precisely why adamantium is often called the "miracle metal".

Just like it would be a miracle if h1a8 started reading comics.
Burn! 😂

Adamantium is not a pure element like Fe, Al, Pb and such. It is an alloy; a solid mixture of (mostly metallic) elements. This means that, in principle, no two patches of adamantium (or brass, or bronze, etc., for that matter) are exactly the same: there is always some experimental uncertainty involved in the amounts of the mixed components. For example: patch 1 might consist of 40.295% of component X, whereas patch 2 might have 39.855% of component X -- while pretty close, these patches are still different and thus have different hardness and other properties.

Therefore, there should be an almost continuous set of different qualities of adamantium. Apparently, there exists some "magical" ratio of the components X, Y, etc. which produces an incredibly hard and durable alloy. Some preparation methods produce adamantium whose composition, and maybe even components, differ from the optimal by quite a bit, resulting in subpar material. Whereas some other methods, due to better technology or simply sheer luck, produce better alloy.

Who knows, maybe there is some singular supercomposition to adamantium which no one in MU has yet been able to exactly discover and/or reproduce experimentally. I'm guessing Logan's stuff is pretty close, though.

Originally posted by carver9
She assisted in punching through an Adamantium/Vibranium door that was covered in magic shielding. Before this, she was crushing it with her bare hands.

https://m.imgur.com/a/zxEaG

Taking another look at Jane ripping through the adamantium/vibranium door. Did she use her fingers to rip through the door entirely by her own strength or was it partially assisted by the flying Mjolnir ? Kinda hard to tell.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh wow, now you're saying I'm trolling? Dem's fighting words. Report me and we can see what mods think.

Lol. If I were trolling, you'd def know it. All I was saying was that adamantium defies real world logic, and yes, it hasn't seen a physical limit. Imagine how thin the coating on Wolverine's bones are.....and he's never had them broken, for example, despite being smashed repeatedly by WWH trying his best to KO him.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that asking for durability feats is apply RL logic . I said that attempting to apply RL logic is attempting to apply RL logic....

Adamantium is a material that no matter how thin it is, it's durability is at max. Infinite, if you will. Like asking what is heavier, an infinite book or an infinite toilet roll.

But yeah, if you want to say that I'm trolling, stop pussyfooting around and do something about it and report me. If you're right and others see it the same, then sure, I'll publicly apologize. If not....well, I expect an apology lol.

I ask for the best durability feat for adamantium. You troll and state that we can't apply real world logic to adamantium. Wtf is that? What you said has nothing to do with what I asked.

Do you understand?

We don't use no limits fallacy unless something actually withstood the infinity.

We use feats to determine the level something is at. If x tons is the most character A has lifted under stress then x tons is the strongest he can be in a forum. We don't simply say that since character A has never shown a limit then their strength is automatically limitless or infinite. You know this. This is common sense. Sometimes you can argue out of stubbornness. I never seen where you admit that you were wrong.

Originally posted by h1a8
I ask for the best durability feat for adamantium. You troll and state that we can't apply real world logic to adamantium. Wtf is that? What you said has nothing to do with what I asked.

Do you understand?

We don't use no limits fallacy unless something actually withstood the infinity.

We use feats to determine the level something is at. If x tons is the most character A has lifted under stress then x tons is the strongest he can be in a forum. We don't simply say that since character A has never shown a limit then their strength is automatically limitless or infinite. You know this. This is common sense. Sometimes you can argue out of stubbornness. I never seen where you admit that you were wrong.

Read back to my post.

You wanted to quantify adamantium.

I'm saying we can't. Because it's a metal that defies physics. You say that's trolling, then report and we shall see where the chips fall. Otherwise, YOU'RE the one trolling.

Edit: and as I said, attempting to use logic on a metal that defies logic won't work.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Read back to my post.

You wanted to quantify adamantium.

I'm saying we can't. Because it's a metal that defies physics. You say that's trolling, then report and we shall see where the chips fall. Otherwise, YOU'RE the one trolling.

Edit: and as I said, attempting to use logic on a metal that defies logic won't work.
We quantify things by their highest feats. We don't assume a no limits fallacy.

Almost every feat in comics defy physics, yet we can still quantify the feats for comparison to others. Therefore your argument is flawed at its base.

Adamantium isn't infinitely durable without feats proving it, no matter how many illogical feats you this it may have. And yes please give us the feats that defy physics.

Now if there is a feat proving that it has infinite durability then please post it. Then you would have answered the question.

And that's fair.

My point was that we can't say something like 2mm thick plating is 2x as strong as 1mm.

Because quantifying something like that and assigning hard numbers to a magical metal can't be done.

And therefore, asking a question like "oh, that door was only plated, which isn't that thick, so it's not that impressive" shouldn't be asked.

Because we've seen Wolverine's bones - plated with adamantium - stand up to blows from almost every brick out there.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thing did? You remember the issue?

Yeah, Alberto already posted the Carol scans.

--
Adamantium alloys have a long history of being inferior to the pure adamantium, I'll give ya that.

In theory, adamantium-vibranium mix should be awesome. On par with Steve's shield, even.

But in practice... I think it's safe to say those two metals simply don't mix well... or perhaps they do, but it takes some brilliant metallurgist to make them.


It's still Jane's greatest pure strength feat, afaik.
Yup. Secret Invasion Fantastic Four.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bToJTt1

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And that's fair.

My point was that we can't say something like 2mm thick plating is 2x as strong as 1mm.

Because quantifying something like that and assigning hard numbers to a magical metal can't be done.

And therefore, asking a question like "oh, that door was only plated, which isn't that thick, so it's not that impressive" shouldn't be asked.

Because we've seen Wolverine's bones - plated with adamantium - stand up to blows from almost every brick out there.
But you focused 100% of the things I said that I really didn't care about and 0% of the things that actually mattered (highest feats). Why not at least address both? Explain why you think adding more adamantium (or another plate of it) to something would not make the force required to bend even harder. After that then just give one of adamantium's highest feats. That way you address both points.

Now to address then thickness issue.
If Wolverine's claws has that type or durability (while being molecules thick) then why wouldn't it be more durable being even thicker? Wouldn't that make admantium all the more impressive? In other words, if one person (a molecule) can brace against x force without succumbing then a trillion people (molecules) would be able to brace against a trillion times more force without succumbing.

Or If one can break or bend a plate of adamantium then clearly it would be harder to break or bend two or multiple stacked plates of it. it would definitely take multiple times more energy that is for sure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yup. Secret Invasion Fantastic Four.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bToJTt1

Seems like Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa didn't give a f*ck about those little details.